Oral Boards 2022

[Chowda]

Seems like its full speed ahead with in person as of now... does anyone think it'll go virtual again?

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[GassYous]

Is it really?

 

[nimbus]

People are used to virtual now. What a waste of time and resources it would be to go in person.

 

[JiPo]

I really hope it becomes virtual. What would they do if people test positive right before the exam date? Or if the examiners test positive?

 

[ERRES2288]

I was just thinking this today. Not to mention the flight cancellations and travel headache.

 

[IntoTheWest]

I have several colleagues confirming Oral Boards is in person in North Carolina for 2022. It makes absolutely no sense to continue this in person. Let's be real, they want it in person so they can justify that multi-million OSCE center expense. As if paying $2400 for an exam weren't ridiculous enough.

 

[GassYous]

I have several colleagues confirming Oral Boards is in person in North Carolina for 2022. It makes absolutely no sense to continue this in person. Let's be real, they want it in person so they can justify that multi-million OSCE center expense. As if paying $2400 for an exam weren't ridiculous enough.

I like how we are going backwards with the ******ed osce when medical students dont have to take step 2 cs anymore

 

[so55b]

They mandate mask during the exam as well.. for speaking test?? smh
why do we have to risk when the virtual exam went very well? especially with current increasing new daily cases?

I can not think of any other reason why they do this in person.. Risking examiners and examinees and possible cancellations due to flights and symptoms on both sides. It will be huge waste of money and vacation time if we have to reschedule due to those reasons.
I hope ABA explains the reasons behind this bold decision like they did last year when they changed it to virtual.

 

[zikuj]

Forcing everyone from around the country to travel to a flyby state to take the OSCE in person is the stupidest thing I've heard. While hospitals are cancelling elective cases and Fortune 500 companies are extending their work from home timelines, ABA is requiring in person OSCE testing during these times? Seriously, wtf are they thinking? This is some New York Times worthy material. Anesthesiology medical board requiring all anesthesiologists to travel across the country and gather in a group setting significantly increasing their risk of getting COVID and having to take time off work (as if it wasn't high enough already doing what we do) while all hospitals are suffering from staff shortages.

Honestly, I'm embarrassed to have to be affiliated with them.

 

[MirrorTodd]

I read that the CDC said it's ok to makeout with your examiner again.

 

[ERRES2288]

It’s insane really. Not only are you on the front lines dealing with staffing shortages, risking infection, covid burnout but now everyone in the country must fly to NC to take an in person exam that can be easily completed virtually?

And this is from OUR OWN specialty!

 

[so55b]

ABA website "Candidates After Arriving in Raleigh Candidates who have a positive test result after arriving in Raleigh will be asked to return to their hotel room and follow current CDC quarantine guidelines until they can arrange to safely return home."

So if someone becomes positive for Covid during their visit to Raleigh.. (because of their travel mandating and exposing people in danger), you have to be quarantined in Hilton for five or more nights at your expense with your vacation time..
They will reschedule and you will have to waste your vacation time and money again not to mention the painful waiting time for months to travel to Raleigh again.. 🤮

 

[IMGASMD]

Sounds about right.

 

[ERRES2288]

1500+ flights are getting cancelled daily

 

[Mman]

unrelated to covid (I mean obviously related) but they need to have the exam be in person at some point in the future. Virtual oral exam is just terrible and nearly useless for assessing someone as a candidate according to colleagues that have both taken the exam virtually last year as well as colleagues that are examiners.

Virtual by necessity for as long as necessary, but back to in person ASAP.

 

[nimbus]

ABA website "Candidates After Arriving in Raleigh Candidates who have a positive test result after arriving in Raleigh will be asked to return to their hotel room and follow current CDC quarantine guidelines until they can arrange to safely return home."

So if someone becomes positive for Covid during their visit to Raleigh.. (because of their travel mandating and exposing people in danger), you have to be quarantined in Hilton for five or more nights at your expense with your vacation time..
They will reschedule and you will have to waste your vacation time and money again not to mention the painful waiting time for months to travel to Raleigh again.. 🤮

Or you could fly home right away since a negative test is not required to fly domestically🤮

 

[GassYous]

Or you could fly home right away since a negative test is not required to fly domestically🤮


View attachment 347891

Who cares about covid? That lady needs some hand lotion

 

[hiyaman]

unrelated to covid (I mean obviously related) but they need to have the exam be in person at some point in the future. Virtual oral exam is just terrible and nearly useless for assessing someone as a candidate according to colleagues that have both taken the exam virtually last year as well as colleagues that are examiners.

Virtual by necessity for as long as necessary, but back to in person ASAP.

I wonder if I took it in person how much more nervous I would have been.

But I wonder how well of a job the exam does in assessing a person's competence. A handful of scenarios that you're speeding along to try to answer every question to pass the exam just doesn't seem to be adequate.

 

[IntoTheWest]

unrelated to covid (I mean obviously related) but they need to have the exam be in person at some point in the future. Virtual oral exam is just terrible and nearly useless for assessing someone as a candidate according to colleagues that have both taken the exam virtually last year as well as colleagues that are examiners.

Virtual by necessity for as long as necessary, but back to in person ASAP.

Not sure what makes the exam in person significantly better in assessing candidates than just doing it virtually. It's a knowledge and speaking test. Just like everything else in America, the ABA is a business first.

 

[nimbus]

Not sure what makes the exam in person significantly better in assessing candidates than just doing it virtually. It's a knowledge and speaking test. Just like everything else in America, the ABA is a business first.

If you can have a doctors appointment or residency interview via zoom, I think oral boards can be zoomed too.

 

[random3d]

If you can have a doctors appointment or residency interview via zoom, I think oral boards can be zoomed too.

The surgery oral boards will continue on zoom this year.

Can't really think of any reason how the ABA could justify the additional risks/travel issues with examiners and examinees traveling in packed airplanes from all over the country to gather at a testing site in the midst of the worst pandemic in the last century.

 

[IMGASMD]

Can't really think of any reason how the ABA could justify the additional risks/travel issues with examiners and examinees traveling in packed airplanes ….

Let me fix that for you.

$$$$ is the reason that the ABA could justify the additional risks/travel issues with examiners and examinees traveling in packed airplanes…

 

[ERRES2288]

Emergency continuing with virtual too this year

 

[Mman]

Not sure what makes the exam in person significantly better in assessing candidates than just doing it virtually. It's a knowledge and speaking test. Just like everything else in America, the ABA is a business first.

the same way business meetings are less effective over Zoom than in person. No eye contact, more stuttery questions/answers, less assessment of nonverbal cues, etc.

We are trying to assess how good of a candidate somebody is in person. We work in person, not over zoom.

 

[GassYous]

the same way business meetings are less effective over Zoom than in person. No eye contact, more stuttery questions/answers, less assessment of nonverbal cues, etc.

We are trying to assess how good of a candidate somebody is in person. We work in person, not over zoom.

If you supervise you could probably do it over zoom

 

[MirrorTodd]

the same way business meetings are less effective over Zoom than in person. No eye contact, more stuttery questions/answers, less assessment of nonverbal cues, etc.

We are trying to assess how good of a candidate somebody is in person. We work in person, not over zoom.

I call BS on that. It's not the examiner's job to decide we're too anxious of a person to be an effective and safe anesthesiologist. The words coming out of our mouth are what really matter for the test and show the examiner that we know enough about the subject of anesthesia to be a safe and effective anesthesiologist.

 

[nimbus]

A couple of the best anesthesiologists I’ve known were very aspy and never made eye contact. There was a resident a year behind me who stuttered. Also excellent. All are board certified. I don’t think that’s what the ABA is testing.

 

[Mman]

I call BS on that. It's not the examiner's job to decide we're too anxious of a person to be an effective and safe anesthesiologist. The words coming out of our mouth are what really matter for the test and show the examiner that we know enough about the subject of anesthesia to be a safe and effective anesthesiologist.

they are determining if you are capable of being an expert consultant, far easier to do in person than on a zoom. Let's put it this way, if you failed on zoom wouldn't you want a chance to prove yourself in person?

 

[jameskimp]

is the plan still to do them in person starting February?

 

[MirrorTodd]

is the plan still to do them in person starting February?

Yarp.

 

[mquinif]

yes in person but that's only if you're one of the lucky ones they let register. The registration has closed for the entire 2022 year!

 

[mquinif]

They may be doing them in person but only if you can register for one. I called today and they are filled for the year. The "nice lady" on the phone told me I could try to sign up again next year

 

[agolden1]

They may be doing them in person but only if you can register for one. I called today and they are filled for the year. The "nice lady" on the phone told me I could try to sign up again next year

Keep an eye on the website. One of my cofellows didn't sign up, then noticed an opening about three weeks ago. He was able to snag it. Things will come up and people likely will drop spots.

 

[ERRES2288]

I just wish there was a way to petition aba to stay virtual until covid surge over

 

[aimedicine]

to all those taking it this year goodluck, can't imagine having to go to raleigh to take this exam, not to mention the additional subject areas being tested on the osce, yuck!

 

[aimedicine]

unrelated to covid (I mean obviously related) but they need to have the exam be in person at some point in the future. Virtual oral exam is just terrible and nearly useless for assessing someone as a candidate according to colleagues that have both taken the exam virtually last year as well as colleagues that are examiners.

Virtual by necessity for as long as necessary, but back to in person ASAP.

this statement is egregious

 

[Thepassageofgas]

they are determining if you are capable of being an expert consultant, far easier to do in person than on a zoom. Let's put it this way, if you failed on zoom wouldn't you want a chance to prove yourself in person?

Erm, i failed the SOE but passed the OSCE in person.

Then passed the SOE on Zoom.

I was nervous as frick both times. Just because my voice shakes doesn’t mean the words coming out are wrong. That’s insane to think anyone should be failed based on anxiety. And there’s no non-verbal cues you can administer to the examiner to prove you have the right answer. I’m not non-verbal cuing my pt’s BP in a code. 🤦‍♀️🙄

 

[Mman]

Erm, i failed the SOE but passed the OSCE in person.

Then passed the SOE on Zoom.

I was nervous as frick both times. Just because my voice shakes doesn’t mean the words coming out are wrong. That’s insane to think anyone should be failed based on anxiety. And there’s no non-verbal cues you can administer to the examiner to prove you have the right answer. I’m not non-verbal cuing my pt’s BP in a code. 🤦‍♀️🙄

at what point did I say someone should be "failed based on anxiety"?????

Zoom is terrible for assessment of anything compared to in person. There is now reams of evidence coming out from business during covid about the ineffectiveness of zoom meetings. It's just bad.

 

[Andy2445]

Extra cost of travel sucked.

 

[GassYous]

I think it is ridiculous to ask a bunch of busy professionals to wake up early and come at 6 am just to have them sit there at some random hotel with no coffee or breakfast for an hour. Then you bus them to the testing center where they sit for no reason around again. And not even having the courtesy to give an idea as to when the test will be over. Huge waste of two days when the entire test can be done in two hours. It is thousands of dollars down the drain and the guilt of all the carbon emissions you are now responsible for that could easily be avoided.

 

[ERRES2288]

I think it is ridiculous to ask a bunch of busy professionals to wake up early and come at 6 am just to have them sit there at some random hotel with no coffee or breakfast for an hour. Then you bus them to the testing center where they sit for no reason around again. And not even having the courtesy to give an idea as to when the test will be over. Huge waste of two days when the entire test can be done in two hours. It is thousands of dollars down the drain and the guilt of all the carbon emissions you are now responsible for that could easily be avoided.

Wow they really don’t provide any sort of refreshments or snacks at either the hotel or the testing center? What exactly is my $2500 going towards??

 

[Simba1711]

Wow they really don’t provide any sort of refreshments or snacks at either the hotel or the testing center? What exactly is my $2500 going towards??

Testing center and the bus that has leather seats lol such a waste of money

 

[DocVapor]

at what point did I say someone should be "failed based on anxiety"?????

Zoom is terrible for assessment of anything compared to in person. There is now reams of evidence coming out from business during covid about the ineffectiveness of zoom meetings. It's just bad.

Comparing business meetings over zoom and high stakes board exams isn't even close to reasonable. I was so laser focused during my zoom oral boards that there could have been a gunfight outside my house and I wouldn't have known it.

Now if you want to talk about the inherent communication delay, voice and audio processing issues, potential cheating issues, sure.

 

[Mman]

Comparing business meetings over zoom and high stakes board exams isn't even close to reasonable. I was so laser focused during my zoom oral boards that there could have been a gunfight outside my house and I wouldn't have known it.

Now if you want to talk about the inherent communication delay, voice and audio processing issues, potential cheating issues, sure.

My point is that zoom is a poor proxy for in person evaluation. I don't care how focused you are, it is more difficult to evaluate someone. If you failed over zoom, would you have wanted a chance to prove yourself in person???

We don't get to be anesthesiologists via telemedicine nor should we be evaluated that way.

 

[DocVapor]

My point is that zoom is a poor proxy for in person evaluation. I don't care how focused you are, it is more difficult to evaluate someone. If you failed over zoom, would you have wanted a chance to prove yourself in person???

We don't get to be anesthesiologists via telemedicine nor should we be evaluated that way.

What is it that you can evaluate in person that is not possible or more difficult over zoom in the age of high definition video/audio? Besides being able to smell the sweat?

We also don't get to be anesthesiologists by merely telling our patients what we would do during their procedure. We actually have to perform. So I'm still dubious as to the actual value of the oral exam in general.

 

[IMGASMD]

My point is that zoom is a poor proxy for in person evaluation. I don't care how focused you are, it is more difficult to evaluate someone. If you failed over zoom, would you have wanted a chance to prove yourself in person???

We don't get to be anesthesiologists via telemedicine nor should we be evaluated that way.

We also don’t get to be an anesthesiologist by telling people what we’re about to do.

All of my evaluation is from my history and physical. If the patient doesn’t pass my eye ball test, then I get more information.

There’s guideline for cardiac work up, sure. But if I see you coming with both hands on your chest…. I wouldn’t give any credence to the cardiac clearance that you have even if it was done less than 24 hours ago.
Not only I have to say it out loud, also while being asked what is the difference of cerebral salt wasting, siadh and di.

I also don’t recite causes of hypotension, hypoxemia, delay awakening in my head before I go into the OR.

Nor do chest compression, while drawing up drugs, thinking about monophasic or biphasic defibrillator, making sure my chest compression is prefect for 2 minutes. All at the same time, of course.

Obviously, I am a little bitter about the whole experience.

 

[Mman]

What is it that you can evaluate in person that is not possible or more difficult over zoom in the age of high definition video/audio? Besides being able to smell the sweat?

We also don't get to be anesthesiologists by merely telling our patients what we would do during their procedure. We actually have to perform. So I'm still dubious as to the actual value of the oral exam in general.

it is superior for evaluating your ability to be a consultant level physician. If you want to determine knowledge base, that is what the written exam is for.

If you want online tests, be a nurse doctor.

 

[Andy2445]

it is superior for evaluating your ability to be a consultant level physician. If you want to determine knowledge base, that is what the written exam is for.

If you want online tests, be a nurse doctor.

There is no evidence to show that just because you passed the oral boards that you are a superior consultant.

 

[DocVapor]

it is superior for evaluating your ability to be a consultant level physician

Why?

 

[Mman]

Why?

because it is. You don't think twitchy internet connections and lags impact oral exam performance and evaluation????

So if you failed via Zoom you wouldn't want a chance to do it in person???