Oregon BOP's take on the DEA forwarding issue

[Lnsean]

I don't have a link to a video of that presentation. What now?! If only I could cite a presentation without having the video. Oh wait, that's right, I can.

There is no obligation to provide video for a presentation. If there was no presentation given before video cameras were invented could be cited. MLA is one of the definitive authorities on citing sources and they permit presentations to be cited without video. Why should I trust some random internet poster over the MLA? Are you an authority on citing sources now? Or are you just pretending to be an expert?

If you don't have the video then we don't know what he said then. I guess there goes your claim...out the window...just like that.

I was actually at the presentation and Loren Miller never said what you claimed he said.

MLA is one of the definitive authorities on citing sources and they permit presentations to be cited without video. Why should I trust some random internet poster over the MLA? Are you an authority on citing sources now? Or are you just pretending to be an expert?

No one is stopping you from formatting in MLA style dummy. You'd just be citing things out of context...in MLA format...lol. Let me give you an example...here I can be seen citing SDN forum using MLA:

Lnsean. “oregon BOP's take on the DEA forwarding issue.” Student Doctor Network, 20 Feb 2018. Oregon BOP's take on the DEA forwarding issue.

Damn that looks legit af. the MLA allows this too...so I'll just put all my posts in MLA format and be right all the time then.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[owlegrad]

I said I yielded. You win, you were right about everything, even the stuff where you contradicted yourself.

Why are you arguing just to argue? Why is it so important to you to be right?

Also I don't think I ever made a claim about what Loren has or has not said. Just like I never attacked his character. And I never said you can't cite SDN posts either. Go ahead and cite them. Why wouldn't you be able to cite them? Because there is no video of the post being made?

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

This thread has been a straight up fever dream.

I have so many questions.

What does it even mean to tell someone "that's never for you to decide"?

 

[owlegrad]

This thread has been a straight up fever dream.

I have so many questions.

What does it even mean to tell someone "that's never for you to decide"?

I mean that's just well written dialog in any decent drama.

 

[Lnsean]

Why are you arguing just to argue? Why is it so important to you to be right?

It is important to be right because you are speaking on matters of law. You claimed that a DEA official said CII changes are illegal. You claimed that unfilled scripts are illegal. It's important to be right on these issues. Your friend and some people here are out to sabotage people; reporting their own colleagues to BOPs even though he was wrong. You guys were telling others to transfer these scripts when you, yourself, were not doing any of it. I just want to make sure all that is out in the open and remind people why it's important to be right and for the right reasons. You dragged me back into an old debate that had already been settled in an older thread months ago. You were the one that wanted to argue, not me.

So, please, before you spew this moral litmus test on others, look at what you have posted in this thread.

 

[Lnsean]

This thread has been a straight up fever dream.

I have so many questions.

What does it even mean to tell someone "that's never for you to decide"?

same..man...what does it mean to not have sources for your claims...weird...almost like a he said she said kinda thing..ya know?

 

[owlegrad]

You claimed that a DEA official said CII changes are illegal.

Did I? That doesn’t sound like something I claimed. Do you have a video of me saying that?

I think you’re taking my comments out of context.

 

[Lnsean]

Did I? That doesn’t sound like something I claimed. Do you have a video of me saying that?

I think you’re taking my comments out of context.

You gave a presentation on this?

 

[owlegrad]

You gave a presentation on this?

Without video how can we know?

 

[Lnsean]

Without video how can we know?

yea it's hard...just give me your slide deck and i'll pick a few words to quote from. you'll just have to take my word for it.

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

same..man...what does it mean to not have sources for your claims...weird...almost like a he said she said kinda thing..ya know?

Lol, you're absolutely right.

Writing "you can't cook potatoes" doesn't mean "you can't cook potatoes" if there's no video evidence of you saying it and there's a disclaimer saying "this is not culinary advice" on the first page of the recipe book.

You should open the Lnsean school of debate.

Don't like something?

Pretend it doesn't exist and demand video evidence while claiming a screenshot it's character assassination.

More like LnSaulGoodman

 

[Lnsean]

Lol, you're absolutely right.

Writing "you can't cook potatoes" doesn't mean "you can't cook potatoes" if there's no video evidence of you saying it and there's a disclaimer saying "this is not culinary advice" on the first page of the recipe book.

You should open the Lnsean school of debate.

Don't like something?

Pretend it doesn't exist and demand video evidence while claiming a screenshot it's character assassination.

More like LnSaulGoodman

You are claiming that a DEA official gave a presentation that contradicted current DEA laws and current practice. You should provide unquestionable data and sources to back that up. That burden of proof is yours, not mine.

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

Disclaimer: this isn't legal advice


everybody do transfers for unfilled controls

 

[Rouelle]

Disclaimer: this isn't legal advice


everybody do transfers for unfilled controls

Can you link a video just so I’ll know for sure?

*There is no need to respond to this.*

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

Can you link a video just so I’ll know for sure?

*There is no need to respond to this.*

Disclaimer: this isn't bird advice

Nobody offend my bonjour honour because you don't have video that I'm posting this

 

[wagrxm2000]

I have to make one last statement. Do we have video evidence that the letter was actually written by Loren? It wasn't signed, anyone could have put his name on it.

(See sig)

 

[Lnsean]

I have to make one last statement. Do we have video evidence that the letter was actually written by Loren? It wasn't signed, anyone could have put his name on it.

(See sig)

Except, the letter was referenced/cited by the NABP and other state BOPs. I'm not the one that is citing the letter (I'm not that important); I'm merely citing the sources. If you have doubts, you should contact NABP and Ohio BOP. LOL. Anything else you want to know?

Here is the full source again:

http://www.pharmacy.ohio.gov/Documents/Pubs/Special/ControlledSubstances/Clarification on Transfer of Unfilled Controlled Substance Prescriptions.pdf

 

[Lnsean]

Disclaimer: this isn't legal advice


everybody do transfers for unfilled controls

Yea...the disclaimer is given before you make a claim, not after. LMAO.

 

[CynicalIntern]

I miss sosoo threads. Those burned bright and then faded away quickly.

 

[Lnsean]

I miss sosoo threads. Those burned bright and then faded away quickly.

I love these threads more. There's kinda a permanent record of what everyone said. People can come back and reference things easily...like a storybook.

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

I miss sosoo threads. Those burned bright and then faded away quickly.

Boku-No student doctor is my favorite anime.

Last season the audience thought Tengu-Scapula had defeated Sosoo, only for her to appear as LnSean

"This isn't even my final form!!
That's never for you to decide!!"

 

[wagrxm2000]

Except, the letter was referenced/cited by the NABP and other state BOPs. I'm not the one that is citing the letter (I'm not that important); I'm merely citing the sources. If you have doubts, you should contact NABP and Ohio BOP. LOL. Anything else you want to know?

Here is the full source again:

http://www.pharmacy.ohio.gov/Documents/Pubs/Special/ControlledSubstances/Clarification on Transfer of Unfilled Controlled Substance Prescriptions.pdf

I know i promised myself I would never respond but the slides are on the dea website. I swear you are the worst person to argue with since nothing you say ever applies to yourself.

Why don't you contact them for a video presentation? I don't even know why I asked that, I'm just going to get another runaround. There are many times where someone will have a different opinion then me and actually give a good argument. Your argument is literally nothing anyone says is correct because of this, this, or that yet none of it applies to you.

Ok no more responding

 

[owlegrad]

I know i promised myself I would never respond but the slides are on the dea website.

Ok no more responding

So we keep saying and yet here we are.

“Every time I think I’ve gotten out you pull me back in”

And I agree, how do you argue with someone whose arguement is so fluid it is downright contradictory and whenever they feel like it something doesn’t count because of this, that, or the other? But yet that same standard applies not to them.

It is possible to disagree with someone and respect them but geez that is just not the case with some people...

 

[owlegrad]

Boku-No student doctor is my favorite anime.

Last season the audience thought Tengu-Scapula had defeated Sosoo, only for her to appear as LnSean

"This isn't even my final form!!
That's never for you to decide!!"

I hate that show. So repetitive. It takes 10 pages for the plot to get anywhere and by then everyone’s lost interest. The dialogue is pretty good though.

 

[wagrxm2000]

So we keep saying and yet here we are.

“Every time I think I’ve gotten out you pull me back in”

And I agree, how do you argue with someone whose arguement is so fluid it is downright contradictory and whenever they feel like it something doesn’t count because of this, that, or the other? But yet that same standard applies not to them.

It is possible to disagree with someone and respect them but geez that is just not the case with some people...

That's liberal nonsense right there lol.

 

[Lnsean]

I know i promised myself I would never respond but the slides are on the dea website. I swear you are the worst person to argue with since nothing you say ever applies to yourself.

Why don't you contact them for a video presentation? I don't even know why I asked that, I'm just going to get another runaround. There are many times where someone will have a different opinion then me and actually give a good argument. Your argument is literally nothing anyone says is correct because of this, this, or that yet none of it applies to you.

Ok no more responding

The website only links his slide decks...we already know those exist. We're not sure he actually gave the presentation and actually said all that. You know what would be helpful...full disclosure of sources. Maybe a video? Maybe you could ask the NABP or Ohio BOP cite his deck to give your claim more credibility. Right now, all it is is what your friend is saying...and I don't trust him to be honest.

Also, I was at the actual presentation and Loren Miller skipped over those slides....lol.

 

[Lnsean]

So we keep saying and yet here we are.

“Every time I think I’ve gotten out you pull me back in”

And I agree, how do you argue with someone whose arguement is so fluid it is downright contradictory and whenever they feel like it something doesn’t count because of this, that, or the other? But yet that same standard applies not to them.

It is possible to disagree with someone and respect them but geez that is just not the case with some people...

Well all you need to do is link the video to show that Loren Miller actually made these claims then we're good. I was actually at the presentation that day and he did not say the things you claimed...lol

I mean this argument has nothing to do with the original debate of the thread, I'm just playing along with you guys...as a courtesy. You're the one that jumped from arguing unfilled controls to Loren Miller's CII changes to his character and then to MLA style formatting...you're the wishy washy one. I'm giving you guys a freebie here and you still messed up....unless you want change topics again to debating MLA style formatting...I'll allow that too. Amuse me.

 

[owlegrad]

I don’t think it would be physically possible for my eyes to roll any harder into the back of my head.

 

[Lnsean]

I don’t think it would be physically possible for my eyes to roll any harder into the back of my head.

LOL. Let me give you guys some feedback, so you can learn. I wouldn't be a great teacher if I didn't give feedback.

The problem is you guys can't get out of your own way. Instead of trying to prove 1 claim (unfilled scripts), you decided to give each other new claims to prove...lol...as if the first one wasn't hard enough. I mean, there are other ways to have argued that without trying to diminish Loren Miller's credibility. The NABP and state boards have cited his letter; who are you guys to even question it? lol...come on.

Good hustle though...nice effort everyone! I mean it.

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

~~~Le Burden of Proof memee~~~

~~~Le Character~~~

~~~Le Industry Standard~~~

~~~Le Not for you to decide~~~

 

[Charcoales]

Lol this thread is still going somehow

 

[owlegrad]

LOL. Let me give you guys some feedback, so you can learn. I wouldn't be a great teacher if I didn't give feedback.

The problem is you guys can't get out of your own way. Instead of trying to prove 1 claim (unfilled scripts), you decided to give each other new claims to prove...lol...as if the first one wasn't hard enough. I mean, there are other ways to have argued that without trying to diminish Loren Miller's credibility. The NABP and state boards have cited his letter; who are you guys to even question it? lol...come on.

Good hustle though...nice effort everyone! I mean it.

Thanks for the tips. But in the future when someone makes a point I will just reject the point and claim that anyone who disagrees with me is dishonest and malicious.

I wish I had the knowledge of fallacies that I used to so I could give you some examples of fallacies you like to employ. You like to move the goal post and obviously you are a hugh fan of attacking character rather than arguements. I think you are a fan of using straw man arguements as well. If I think of anymore I will share.

It cracks me up that you think you won and are just playing with us at this point.

Lol this thread is still going somehow

Dude we haven’t even got it to 10 pages yet.
By our standards we’ve barely warmed up.

 

[Lnsean]

Thanks for the tips. But in the future when someone makes a point I will just reject the point and claim that anyone who disagrees with me is dishonest and malicious.

I wish I had the knowledge of fallacies that I used to so I could give you some examples of fallacies you like to employ. You like to move the goal post and obviously you are a hugh fan of attacking character rather than arguements. I think you are a fan of using straw man arguements as well. If I think of anymore I will share.

It cracks me up that you think you won and are just playing with us at this point.



Dude we haven’t even got it to 10 pages yet.
By our standards we’ve barely warmed up.

I know I won....unless you still want to debate Loren Miller's credibility..LOL...you went from debating unfilled transfers to CII changes to Loren Miller to MLA formatting. You seem lost...lol. Let me know if you need help refocusing.

Thanks for the tips. But in the future when someone makes a point I will just reject the point and claim that anyone who disagrees with me is dishonest and malicious.

Telling people to illegally do transfers of unfilled controls is pretty malicious. If you're telling people to break the law, you should have unquestionable evidence. So, yea it's malicious. You're just trying to win an argument instead of helping your colleagues. Let's put it this way, you're defending the same group of people in the last thread that wanted to report your own colleagues to BOPs even though you guys were in the wrong. That's malicious.

 

[Lnsean]

Lol this thread is still going somehow

This thread and the old thread contain a lot of gems that will be referenced in future debates. It's pretty awesome if u ask me.

 

[owlegrad]

I never debated MLA standards. I only used them to correct your crazy claim that presentations must have video to be cited. That was factually incorrect and the MLA citing standards are my proof of that.

As always I don't expect you to be able to follow a simple statement of fact though, no worries.

 

[owlegrad]

Also remind me where I told people to break the law? That is a claim you haven't proven yet although you keep repeating it over and over.

 

[Lnsean]

I never debated MLA standards. I only used them to correct your crazy claim that presentations must have video to be cited. That was factually incorrect and the MLA citing standards are my proof of that.

As always I don't expect you to be able to follow a simple statement of fact though, no worries.

I was actually at the presentation that you guys are citing. Loren Miller never said any of what you're claiming.

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

Which hotel was the conference held in, @Lnsean ?
Which conference room did they use?

I was actually at the presentation that you guys are citing. Loren Miller never said any of what you're claiming.

 

[owlegrad]

I was actually at the presentation that you guys are citing. Loren Miller never said any of what you're claiming.

It's time to fess up. You are Loren Miller aren't you?!

 

[Lnsean]

Which hotel was the conference held in, @Lnsean ?
Which conference room did they use?

I don't know...I forget...I guess it's just my words against yours...LOL...but let me tell you what happened that day:

I was sitting there waiting for the presentation when who other than Loren Miller walked up. He toss me a stack of papers and this conversation ensured:

Him: "Lnsean, I am in need of your help. Three months from now, a Great Loser will arise on SDN from the ashes of old ones. He will quote my slides out of context and try to defame my character and credibility."

As you know, I look dumbfounded and very confused.

Me: "So why don't you just add a legal disclaimer in there, Loren? Easy pezzzy."

Him: "I did, Lnsean...but this Great Loser does not know what a legal disclaimer is. He will say that a legal disclaimer isn't a legal disclaimer."

Me: "Loren, this sht can't be real. Stop fking with me."

Him: "No, it is real. You must defend my honor."

Me: "I will, Loren. I will."

And I kid you not...he walked out. I didn't realize what he was saying at the time, but now I know...now I know. IT's too real.

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

I don't know...I forget...I guess it's just my words against yours...LOL...but let me tell you what happened that day:
I was sitting there waiting for the presentation when who other than Loren Miller walked up. He toss me a stack of papers and this conversation ensured:

Him: "Lnsean, I am in need of your help. Three months from now, a Great Loser will arise on SDN from the ashes of old ones. He will quote my slides out of context and try to defame my character and credibility."

As you know, I look dumbfounded and very confused.

Me: "So why don't you just add a legal disclaimer in there, Loren? Easy pezzzy."

Him: "I did, Lnsean...but this Great Loser does not know what a legal disclaimer is. He will say that a legal disclaimer isn't a legal disclaimer."

Me: "Loren, this sht can't be real. Stop fking with me."

Him: "No, it is real. You must defend my honor."

Me: "I will, Loren. I will."

And I kid you not...he walked out. I didn't realize what he was saying at the time, but now I know...now I know. IT's too real.

The great part is that I don't even know if this is meant to be taken as humor or if you're dead serious

 

[Rouelle]

The great part is that I don't even know if this is meant to be taken as humor or if you're dead serious

Without a video we’ll never know

 

[Lnsean]

Without a video we’ll never know

This is all true dude...if you look at the slide deck..it's the same legal disclaimer i told him to put in there.

 

[owlegrad]

How do we know Washington crossed the Delaware? SHOW ME THE TAPE!

Also if you do show me a video how do I know it’s real and hasn’t been Photoshoped or edited? Or taken out of context? It might all be fake news!

Do robots dream of electric sheep?

 

[Lnsean]

How do we know Washington crossed the Delaware? SHOW ME THE TAPE!

Also if you do show me a video how do I know it’s real and hasn’t been Photoshoped or edited? Or taken out of context? It might all be fake news!

Do robots dream of electric sheep?

It's more for the fact that you should be transparent about your sources and let your audience decide that. I shouldn't have to explain why i need the video; it should be provided upon request. You're the one making the claim , not me. It's pretty simple really.

I mean...you guys are trying to defame the credibility of a DEA official. You really should provide all your sources...lmao

 

[owlegrad]

It's more for the fact that you should be transparent about your sources and let your audience decide that. I shouldn't have to explain why i need the video; it should be provided upon request. You're the one making the claim , not me. It's pretty simple really.

I mean...you guys are trying to defame the credibility of a DEA official. You really should provide all your sources...lmao

The source is the slide deck posted on the DEA website. If that is not good enough for you, perhaps you should take it up with the DEA?

And how on earth can we provide a video that doesn't exist? I mean if I had a tardus, sure, no problem. Lacking a tardus I think I will have to make do with the source being a powerpoint made by said DEA official and posted on the DEA website. If it had come from say some anonymous blogger's site I would agree that we have no way to know if he actually made the slides or not but it came from the DEA website so if that's not good enough for you, again I suggest you take it up with the DEA.

Even if we did provide the video you would just claim it was edited, taken out of context, or fake news though, so again I ask, what's the point?

Also I don't believe Loren ever sent that email to NABP. Either NABP is lying or is taking Loren's email out of context. Until you can prove to me that Loren actually sent that email and meant what he said (perhaps by a recorded interview with him) I am declaring your source to be invalid and any argument you make from it fraudulent.

Also you are claiming to have gone to a meeting you couldn't possibly have attended, why would you lie just to win an argument? It really does speak to a certain, shall I say, malice to do so.

 

[zelman]

I mean...you guys are trying to defame the credibility of a DEA official. You really should provide all your sources...lmao

DEA? Yeah right. I’ve never met anyone who works for them. They don’t exist.

 

[Lnsean]

The source is the slide deck posted on the DEA website. If that is not good enough for you, perhaps you should take it up with the DEA?

And how on earth can we provide a video that doesn't exist? I mean if I had a tardus, sure, no problem. Lacking a tardus I think I will have to make do with the source being a powerpoint made by said DEA official and posted on the DEA website. If it had come from say some anonymous blogger's site I would agree that we have no way to know if he actually made the slides or not but it came from the DEA website so if that's not good enough for you, again I suggest you take it up with the DEA.

Even if we did provide the video you would just claim it was edited, taken out of context, or fake news though, so again I ask, what's the point?

Also I don't believe Loren ever sent that email to NABP. Either NABP is lying or is taking Loren's email out of context. Until you can prove to me that Loren actually sent that email and meant what he said (perhaps by a recorded interview with him) I am declaring your source to be invalid and any argument you make from it fraudulent.

Also you are claiming to have gone to a meeting you couldn't possibly have attended, why would you lie just to win an argument? It really does speak to a certain, shall I say, malice to do so.

I was actually at the presentation that day and Loren Miller never gave this presentation using that slide deck. See how easy it was to throw out your entire claim? lol....so it's really just my words against yours.

So please...stop tying to explain or make excuses for not having all your sources. No sources = no claim.

 

[CetiAlphaFive]

I was actually at the presentation that day and Loren Miller never gave this presentation using that slide deck. See how easy it was to throw out your entire claim? lol....so it's really just my words against yours.
So please...stop tying to explain or make excuses for not having all your sources. No sources = no claim.

I have to admit- No one can argue this.

Checkmake, Owle.

So what if the DEA listed him as the presenter and his name is on the first page one the PDF.

Just because someone's name is the only one on a document and next tt the date didn't mean anything!

 

[Lnsean]

I have to admit- No one can argue this.

Checkmake, Owle.

So what if the DEA listed him as the presenter and his name is on the first page one the PDF.

Just because someone's name is the only one on a document and next tt the date didn't mean anything!

Yea...he presented but totally skipped over those 2 slides you mentioned. He said they were mistakes that his intern made and didn't know any better. You just gonna have to take my word on it...like you're asking me to take yours. We good now? LOL