Oregon takes away pediatrician's license for touting anti-vax to patients

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Hmm I'm not sure how I feel about that considering, in essence, you're turning away someone based on their personal beliefs. Also, by turning them away, you break any potential ability to flip or negotiate with the parents which could down the line save the kid's life. I could agree with a sentiment of 'we as a clinic firmly stand with proper vaccination schedules and will continue to inform you of deadlines passed/the harms of not vaccinating your child during our visits, so you're free to look elsewhere if that will bug you', but I'm not sure I like the slippery slope idea of turning patients down because 'we disagree with your beliefs'. That power dynamic could then theoretically be applied to any other belief system if the clinic can come up with a reason that their stance is justified.. leaving it up to what the patient is willing to tolerate I think seems more appropriate, but c'est la vie.

I’d rather not have unvaccinated kids running around my office potentially getting other kids who may not be able to be vaccinated sick.

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[mmchick]

Yikes. Same person claiming measles will "reset" your immune system or is somehow healthy for it.. heard of SSPE? How about more like, slow and horrifying neurological degeneration leading to coma and death of a child? That's measles for you. Same person suggesting shooting green matcha tea up your cooch for cervical cancer is better than getting the HPV vaccine (yikes). I find it interesting people are willing to take their chances not getting vaccinated against a pre-emptive oncogenic virus, risk their child's life to debilitating and horrifying diseases, and/or forego genotypically specific chemotherapies for the off-chance that green tea douching and chemically burning the cervix fares better. If you're a skeptical, anxious person who is indecisive or mistrustful of the medical system... both will be leaps.. but somehow I guess green tea and eschar seems more...approachable? I suppose patient autonomy is a thing and everyone is in their own right to choose their risk aversion...but just crazy to me the people supporting the choices with either negative or absent scientific evidence against those "treatments" are calling themselves doctors and utilizing that power dynamic to support poor health choices.

I think it's fine to question the potential harms of vaccines and to want to do studies to be sure we're performing the best practices.. but to jump first to, without evidence and against evidence that debunks the idea, something like autism is more likely a by-product of vaccines when the vast majority of individuals do just fine with vaccines and not consider it a by-product of our ability to diagnose better/milder cases is just odd to me.

 

[Ganon]

Same person suggesting shooting green matcha tea up your cooch for cervical cancer is better than getting the HPV vaccine (yikes).

This made me laugh out loud, thank you

 

[Moko]

Same person suggesting shooting green matcha tea up your cooch for cervical cancer is better than getting the HPV vaccine (Natural Nutmeg).

That piece definitely put the "nut" in "nutmeg". It seems that anyone can call themselves a "doctor" and "physician" nowadays, even when their only credential is a "degree" in pseudoscience. If they want to play doctor, take patients' money, and dole out incorrect and questionable medical advice, they should be held accountable to the same standards that we are. When naturopaths start getting routinely sued for preventable complications of missed and delayed diagnoses, I suspect the glamor of being a pretend doctor will wear off. Just my thoughts

 

[Lawpy]

That piece definitely put the "nut" in "nutmeg". It seems that anyone can call themselves a "doctor" and "physician" nowadays, even when their only credential is a "degree" in pseudoscience. If they want to play doctor, take patients' money, and dole out incorrect and questionable medical advice, they should be held accountable to the same standards that we are. When naturopaths start getting routinely sued for preventable complications of missed and delayed diagnoses, I suspect the glamor of being a pretend doctor will wear off.
Disclaimer: the views and opinions expressed in this post belong solely to me and do not represent the official policy or position of this forum and moderator staff.

Huh i didn't know a disclaimer was needed

 

[SurfingDoctor]

Ha... that pediatrician is an idiot. End of story.

Also in relation to the ice cream versus shark attack correlation study... land sharks are serious business in the summertime. And notice how the curves create... a shark fin!? Yeah... deadly serious.

"Candygram"

 

[RespectTheChemistry]

This is just a curiosity question.

In my speech communication class, when we had to write a persuasive speech, there was a mom of a toddler who was antivaccination and wrote her persuasive speech on that. To be clear, I am very pro-vax, but I think it was good for me to hear where she was coming from so we can understand the misinformation floating around to hopefully help counter it.

Something I didn't know was floating around as a reason why antivaccination parents believe what they do is actually the existence of the Vaccine Injury program. Some people with antivaccination viewpoints take the existence of that program as evidence for the idea that vaccinations aren't safe. I have found that people don't want to take "It's extremely rare" as an answer, because other things that luckily don't happen super duper often are things we ask people to take safety precautions against.

Is that something you guys have found a good way to counter?

(I'm just hear to learn!)

 

[ACSurgeon]

This is just a curiosity question.

In my speech communication class, when we had to write a persuasive speech, there was a mom of a toddler who was antivaccination and wrote her persuasive speech on that. To be clear, I am very pro-vax, but I think it was good for me to hear where she was coming from so we can understand the misinformation floating around to hopefully help counter it.

Something I didn't know was floating around as a reason why antivaccination parents believe what they do is actually the existence of the Vaccine Injury program. Some people with antivaccination viewpoints take the existence of that program as evidence for the idea that vaccinations aren't safe. I have found that people don't want to take "It's extremely rare" as an answer, because other things that luckily don't happen super duper often are things we ask people to take safety precautions against.

Is that something you guys have found a good way to counter?

(I'm just hear to learn!)

The vaccine injury program is a safety mechanism and provides an element of transparency. This is like someone saying having a seatbelt in the car is proof that cars are dangerous.

also, a big problem is people haven’t experienced diseases outbreaks thanks to vaccines. So, they don’t know how terrible it is for a child to get sick with one of these conditions....

 

[Mass Effect]

Unfair to assume the worst, is CDC infallible? As doctors are we not allowed to formulate a different opinion? Has anyone of the people commenting read his book?

Uh, science isn't opinion.

 

[Socrates25]

This is just a curiosity question.

In my speech communication class, when we had to write a persuasive speech, there was a mom of a toddler who was antivaccination and wrote her persuasive speech on that. To be clear, I am very pro-vax, but I think it was good for me to hear where she was coming from so we can understand the misinformation floating around to hopefully help counter it.

Something I didn't know was floating around as a reason why antivaccination parents believe what they do is actually the existence of the Vaccine Injury program. Some people with antivaccination viewpoints take the existence of that program as evidence for the idea that vaccinations aren't safe. I have found that people don't want to take "It's extremely rare" as an answer, because other things that luckily don't happen super duper often are things we ask people to take safety precautions against.

Is that something you guys have found a good way to counter?

(I'm just hear to learn!)

The VICP program is run by "special masters" who decide if your claim of vaccine injury is valid.

However the "special masters" are wrong in many cases. There's a lot of BS settlements that they approve that should never be validated.

Many anti-vax people say that the VICP makes it impossible to sue vaccine makers.

That's a flat out lie.

NVICP forces you to go through a special process first, but if the "special master" of the court decides to reject your claim, you have absolute freedom to sue the vaccine maker afterwards.

 

[Socrates25]

The vaccine injury program is a safety mechanism and provides an element of transparency. This is like someone saying having a seatbelt in the car is proof that cars are dangerous.

also, a big problem is people haven’t experienced diseases outbreaks thanks to vaccines. So, they don’t know how terrible it is for a child to get sick with one of these conditions....

Seatbelts are a good analogy.

Every year dozens of people are killed by seatbelts. They trap people in burning and sinking vehicles.

Yet only a food would not wear a seatbelt because for every life it costs, it saves a thousand.

Next time an anti-vax idiot spouts nonsense, ask them if they wear a seatbelt.

 

[Osminog]

Update: Dr. Thomas is back to practicing medicine—under the condition that he doesn’t offer advice on vaccines and doesn’t conduct “research” in his office. Apparently willfully causing Oregon’s first pediatric tetanus case in over 30 years doesn’t preclude you from continuing to practice medicine.

 

[Goro]

Update: Dr. Thomas is back to practicing medicine—under the condition that he doesn’t offer advice on vaccines and doesn’t conduct “research” in his office. Apparently willfully causing Oregon’s first pediatric tetanus case in over 30 years doesn’t preclude you from continuing practicing medicine.

I hope that Ohio can do better with that quack Sherri Tenpenny

 

[xffan624]

Update: Dr. Thomas is back to practicing medicine—under the condition that he doesn’t offer advice on vaccines and doesn’t conduct “research” in his office. Apparently willfully causing Oregon’s first pediatric tetanus case in over 30 years doesn’t preclude you from continuing practicing medicine.

The craziest thing about that Oregon story is the parents still refused to vaccinate the kid (beyond the first dose in the series) for tetanus after 39 days on a ventilator and two months of rehab.

 

[Crayola227]

The craziest thing about that Oregon story is the parents still refused to vaccinate the kid (beyond the first dose in the series) for tetanus after 39 days on a ventilator and two months of rehab.

Jeebus Crab man.

Parents like that should be punished.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

The craziest thing about that Oregon story is the parents still refused to vaccinate the kid (beyond the first dose in the series) for tetanus after 39 days on a ventilator and two months of rehab.

People are stupid.

 

[wholeheartedly]

I still have the same question I always have in these cases. Given the abundance of science on the subject and other similar subjects, do these doctors truly believe what they are saying or do they have other reasons for doing this such as being a grifter, obtaining some form of celebrity, attracting different patients (i mean word gets around and this guy has essentially created a nice little niche for himself).

If they don’t truly believe what they are selling (and i suspect a lot of them don’t), then that’s an even bigger, more nefarious problem. No amount of education or training on the scientific method and critically reviewing the literature is going to fix that problem.

 

[wholeheartedly]

The craziest thing about that Oregon story is the parents still refused to vaccinate the kid (beyond the first dose in the series) for tetanus after 39 days on a ventilator and two months of rehab.

I’m sure they figure he’s got “way better natural immunity” now

 

[deleted1100659]

Vaccine induced fibromyalgia? now theres a theory, lol. perhaps they cause the more serious form of fibromyalgia, "metastatic fibromyalgia".

 

[Steve_Zissou]

Vaccine induced fibromyalgia? now theres a theory, lol. perhaps they cause the more serious form of fibromyalgia, "metastatic fibromyalgia".

While I agree that it sounds absurd, there is some (read, some) evidence pointing towards a autoimmune cause for fibromyalgia.

Passive transfer of fibromyalgia symptoms from patients to mice - PubMed

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[wholeheartedly]

While I agree that it sounds absurd, there is some (read, some) evidence pointing towards a autoimmune cause for fibromyalgia.

Passive transfer of fibromyalgia symptoms from patients to mice - PubMed

​

NEJM Journal Watch: Summaries of and commentary on original medical and scientific articles from key medical journals

NEJM Journal Watch reviews over 250 scientific and medical journals to present important clinical research findings and insightful commentary

www.jwatch.org

That’s an interesting study.

 

[Steve_Zissou]

That’s an interesting study.

I thought so too

 

[dpmd]

Snow is fun or snow is terrible are opinions. Snow does not contain water is not an opinion. It is an incorrect statement. If someone was a science teacher and taught this they would not be fired for their personal beliefs or opinions. They would be fired because they lack the requisite knowledge or are ignoring it and therefore not performing their job correctly. The only issue I have with the decision Oregon made is that they allowed this doctor to resume practicing (although with conditions to protect some of his patients).

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Snow is fun or snow is terrible are opinions. Snow does not contain water is not an opinion. It is an incorrect statement. If someone was a science teacher and taught this they would not be fired for their personal beliefs or opinions. They would be fired because they lack the requisite knowledge or are ignoring it and therefore not performing their job correctly. The only issue I have with the decision Oregon made is that they allowed this doctor to resume practicing (although with conditions to protect some of his patients).

Well said.

 

[Crayola227]

This physician cannot be trusted. What other quacky beliefs outside science and standard of care does he have? And how many children have to be out at risk to root them out?

He's shown a certain character and willingness to violate ethics and put his patients at risk. His license should have been fully revoked.

The "protections" in place are a joke.