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Recently experienced ortho and really enjoyed it. Hypothetical here but could someone match into ortho without any research? If so, what would be needed to do it? Please don't flame me... its an honest question. Im just not research oriented and I know there are some community programs and places that don't value it as much. I think you can have a genuine interest in the field without showing it through research. This makes me wonder what type of scores and grades could make up for a lack of research.
 
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massmocha

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I matched ortho at a "research program" with only an active ortho project, no ortho pubs. I would strongly recommend getting involved in a project so you have an answer for that question on the interview trail, even if you don't plan to be a research maven.
 
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massmocha

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So much to discuss -

Research is your strength with your app. Step 1 is your weakness. Probably want to take step 2 early and make sure you're scoring high (260+) to feel really confident with your app. Having said that, your research situation will open up doors that your Step 1 may have closed.

You can get a letter from any orthopedist that knows you well. The better they know you, the better the letter.

The fit question is hard to answer, but if you are concerned about how many hours to work in residency, ortho is probably one of the worst specialties to choose. In the end, I wouldn't base your career decision based on how many hours you work in residency, because you'll have about 30 years after that as an attending to practice however you want.

There are all sorts of ortho residents, you just need to find the program where people align best with your lifestyle. If you feel like you wouldn't want to hang out with anyone at a particular program, I would not rank that program very highly. With your Step score, you may be limited in your options, but you'll have to see how it all plays out. Do your best and try to ace the rest of your rotations, then rotate at places you could see yourself going to.

Good luck

MS3, just finished surgery as my first rotation.

School Rank: ~20 MD school
Preclinical grades: average
Step 1: 237
Clinical grades: A/B+/B/C/D. Clinical evals B+/A, overall grade B+. Comments highlighting my ability to work well with the team and learn quickly.
Research: 4 publications. 3 in basic science unrelated to ortho in top journals (one of which is second author). 3rd author in JPO. First author paper being submitted to JBJS now. Another first author being written up which will go to JPO.
ECs: basically none. My free time was spent doing research, golfing, mountain biking, gym, etc. Practically no volunteering. Is volunteering is necessary?

I can get a strong letter of rec from my research PI who is a big name peds orthopod. Are research letters looked upon favorably or should letters be from clinical supervisors only?

Another thing is that people think I'm too "chill" for surgery. My home ortho program is known for being extremely bro, and I'm not sure I fit in with that, though I'm not exactly sure if that personality is pervasive throughout ortho. At my home program, on interviews if the residents like you you are expected to go out clubbing with them - that's just not me. I got along well with the gen surg residents if that means anything.

Though I like research, I don't think I want to stay in academia. I'm fine going to a community program as long as I get trained well as a surgeon and if it keeps options open for fellowship. Another concern of mine are hours. On my surgery rotation I worked 80 hrs a week and took q3 call for half of it. I felt like I could handle that during residency. However, R2s and R3s on gen surg (and from what I hear, ortho) consistently work 100+ hrs. As a med student I was allowed to leave at 6pm, but my residents stayed til 9pm. We both got to the hospital at 4am. They all joked about the "80 hr limit." On my q3 call we rounded 2 hrs before the 24 hr shift started, and after the shift we still had 3-5 hrs of work to do. I did one 100 hr week on surgery and could do it occasionally during residency, but if I'm honest to myself, I can't do it for 5 yrs.

Thanks for any advice
 
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brones

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Hey, does anyone know if it is frowned down upon to not get a letter from a program you rotated at? Not that anyone didn't want to write me a letter, but I didn't feel like any of the attendings I worked with knew me well enough to write a meaningful letter. So, I didn't ask for one. In the grand scheme of things will this affect me?
 

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Thanks for the advice. I was in the 250s on my practice nbmes but on the real thing a single section tanked my score. I've aligned my third year schedule to have an easy end of MS3 so hopefully I'll have time to study for step 2. As for hours, I felt like I enjoyed my time on surgery and the day really flew by. I never was looking at my watch hoping to go home, and on some days I was wishing I could add more time to the clock to get things done. What scares me in particular is the fact that I met a few residents/fellows who had failed marriages, seemingly due to the stresses of residency. We had a attending/resident/student talk about work-life balance and the common sentiment was that surgical residency leaves no time for home life but the life of an attending is whatever you want. I'm newly married and it's a little stressful thinking about life as a surgical resident.
As long as your wife is realistic about the commitment and know that especially as a junior resident you are at the mercy of your schedule and will have very little leeway to do things outside of your vacation time. The beginning is rough, getting adjusted to the schedule (definitely fell asleep at the table for multiple date nights early in the year), but then you have to prioritize your relationship as the #1 activity outside of residency and you can make it work. You don't have time to pick up extra hobbies, but if you are committed to it, you can make the time for family. If possible, having kids early in residency is pretty rough, so you may want to delay, but otherwise people in all stages of marriage and family make things work.

Plus, the flip side is your wife would be married to someone who didn't like their job. I'd like to see the divorce rate for that scenario.
 

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Hey, does anyone know if it is frowned down upon to not get a letter from a program you rotated at? Not that anyone didn't want to write me a letter, but I didn't feel like any of the attendings I worked with knew me well enough to write a meaningful letter. So, I didn't ask for one. In the grand scheme of things will this affect me?

Interested in this answer too.

I feel like I've read somewhere that it's good to get letters from your aways, butwhile on mine, I was getting bounced around between different attendings, so I didn't think I got enough 1 on 1 time in order to have a good letter written. I was good while there, but I would think if someone doesn't get to know you on a personal level and can attest to your character/personality outside of just showing up on time and working hard, it would be a pretty boring letter. Could be wrong obviously.
 

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You don't have to tell people on your interviews where you rotated, they typically don't ask. But, if you had a good enough relationship with anyone, it may be worth it to ask for a letter from your aways, so that you have something to submit to get you an interview at that specific program.
 

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Is there any benefit to submitting ERAS on the 15th for us?

Program deadlines are 10/1 at the earliest and I've seen a few say they will look at applications as they come in, but most places make it sound like they don't look until the application is complete.

Just wondering because I've been doing rotations back to back, on the third, and will finally have a break in 2 weeks for the last week of September. Wondering if it would hurt me to wait to submit until that week when I can make sure everything is perfect or if it would be better to submit Friday with everything "okay." Reading through ERAS FAQs now, but not sure if the Ortho process is different.
 

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Is there any benefit to submitting ERAS on the 15th for us?

Program deadlines are 10/1 at the earliest and I've seen a few say they will look at applications as they come in, but most places make it sound like they don't look until the application is complete.

Just wondering because I've been doing rotations back to back, on the third, and will finally have a break in 2 weeks for the last week of September. Wondering if it would hurt me to wait to submit until that week when I can make sure everything is perfect or if it would be better to submit Friday with everything "okay." Reading through ERAS FAQs now, but not sure if the Ortho process is different.
No real way of knowing how important it is. I didn't start to get views until the end of October- some are earlier but not many.

The idea is to get it in ASAP but it also has to be complete with LOR, which can be hard if you're getting some from aways. It's probably a situation where you are better safe than sorry, though in the scheme of things don't think it's the end all, be all.

The process is so incredibly random it's really tough pinpoint what actually matters and doesn't. Just be prepared to be humbled and to discover that there are a ton of excellent candidates out there. Though certainly not the norm, 260+/270+ for both steps wasn't as standout as I thought it would be.
 
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massmocha

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Is there any benefit to submitting ERAS on the 15th for us?

Program deadlines are 10/1 at the earliest and I've seen a few say they will look at applications as they come in, but most places make it sound like they don't look until the application is complete.

Just wondering because I've been doing rotations back to back, on the third, and will finally have a break in 2 weeks for the last week of September. Wondering if it would hurt me to wait to submit until that week when I can make sure everything is perfect or if it would be better to submit Friday with everything "okay." Reading through ERAS FAQs now, but not sure if the Ortho process is different.

Not sure what those dates are referring to, but you absolutely want to submit the first day the application opens as early as possible, if that's what you're asking. I know I forgot to apply to the Washington DC programs (I made my list state by state... dumb), applied the day after, and was not interviewed. Sure that's not a great sample, but definitely should have got interviews there based on getting interviews at all the surrounding programs and much stronger national programs that I applied to opening day.

Would NOT wait for the deadline, that shows lack of preparation, as you've had months to prepare this application.
 
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massmocha

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Top 5 medical school
Step 1: 230 (no comment...)
Current third year- no grades yet (trying to honors everything, currently on surgery, should get good written evaluations thus far)
Research: 1 poster presentation in OTA, 1 podium presentation regional plastic surgery conference, 2nd author published medium impact CT surgery paper, 3rd author high impact CT surgery paper. Two ortho papers ready for submission within few months (first author), regional CT surg poster presentation
ECs: ortho interest group president, AMA national global health committee member (an elected position)
Been in OR many times with chair, knows me. Well liked amongst program residents.

Thanks
Everything looks great except Step 1. Crush your rotations and your Step 2 and you should be in a good spot.
 

jjjgoblue

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-Step 1: 247
-Step 2: 255
-Not one of the "brand name" school, ranked top half, not AOA
-We don't classify pass/high pass/honors, but all clinical grades are 90+ (except neuro, 88), surgery grade was 93
-Excellent comments from m3 evals going into dean's letter (fwiw)
-Strong letters (home PD, chairman, and ortho director of research attending I've worked with since first year), especially from home PD who gave excellent feedback (love my home program)
- Research (all 2nd-4th authorship): 1 AJSM paper, 1 JOR paper, 3 papers in submission to JBJS and AJSM, 2 oral presentations (I presented one; for the second I was not the presenter but an author of the presented study), 3 posters (presenter on 2 of them; co-author on the 3rd), 4 submitted abstracts, 1 non-ortho project hoping to submit manuscript in December
-4th letter from chairman of my first away rotation (also loved this program and I busted it)
-1st away rotation: received better feedback than I could've imagined, was told by an attending on the decision committee that everyone had really positive things to say about me (spent time with almost every attending and resident), he hopes I strongly consider applying there (of course I am!) and even that he thinks I'll match there if I rank them
-current away rotation: more students and faculty than 1st rotation, and not set up well to get significant 1-on-1 time with many faculty or residents (not asking for letter from here....using my previous 4 letters for all apps)

Questions:
1) Do I need to take the comments from my first away rotation with a grain of salt (ie "I think you'll match here if you apply and rank this program"), or are these types of comments as honest and genuine as I took them to be and an opportunity that I should take and run with because I was fortunate enough to get that type of feedback?

2) Aside from really strong performances on my home and away rotations, is my on-paper app strong enough to get considered by a healthy amount of programs? (I realize once I get an interview offer, it's up to me from then on; but I'd like to know if my paper application will bring in enough interviews to feel comfortable about having somewhere to go come match day). I'm applying to 60 programs.
 

akwho

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-Step 1: 247
-Step 2: 255
-Not one of the "brand name" school, ranked top half, not AOA
-We don't classify pass/high pass/honors, but all clinical grades are 90+ (except neuro, 88), surgery grade was 93
-Excellent comments from m3 evals going into dean's letter (fwiw)
-Strong letters (home PD, chairman, and ortho director of research attending I've worked with since first year), especially from home PD who gave excellent feedback (love my home program)
- Research (all 2nd-4th authorship): 1 AJSM paper, 1 JOR paper, 3 papers in submission to JBJS and AJSM, 2 oral presentations (I presented one; for the second I was not the presenter but an author of the presented study), 3 posters (presenter on 2 of them; co-author on the 3rd), 4 submitted abstracts, 1 non-ortho project hoping to submit manuscript in December
-4th letter from chairman of my first away rotation (also loved this program and I busted it)
-1st away rotation: received better feedback than I could've imagined, was told by an attending on the decision committee that everyone had really positive things to say about me (spent time with almost every attending and resident), he hopes I strongly consider applying there (of course I am!) and even that he thinks I'll match there if I rank them
-current away rotation: more students and faculty than 1st rotation, and not set up well to get significant 1-on-1 time with many faculty or residents (not asking for letter from here....using my previous 4 letters for all apps)

Questions:
1) Do I need to take the comments from my first away rotation with a grain of salt (ie "I think you'll match here if you apply and rank this program"), or are these types of comments as honest and genuine as I took them to be and an opportunity that I should take and run with because I was fortunate enough to get that type of feedback?

2) Aside from really strong performances on my home and away rotations, is my on-paper app strong enough to get considered by a healthy amount of programs? (I realize once I get an interview offer, it's up to me from then on; but I'd like to know if my paper application will bring in enough interviews to feel comfortable about having somewhere to go come match day). I'm applying to 60 programs.

Don't take this wrong, but except for your research you're an average matched ortho candidate, which is to say you'd be an exceptional applicant in any other field, but in ortho you're average. That means you'll most likely get a solid program somewhere as long as you attend 12+ interviews. I would have rec'd applying to 80 programs. It's seriously that competitive.

Never take someone saying you'll match there if you rank them highly as truth. Match day is truth. Over half the people I know promised a spot last year if they ranked a program highly ended up somewhere else despite those promises. You never know what happens behind closed doors when it comes time to make the match list. A promise in August is worth a lot less than a promise at the end of January.
 

massmocha

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-Step 1: 247
-Step 2: 255
-Not one of the "brand name" school, ranked top half, not AOA
-We don't classify pass/high pass/honors, but all clinical grades are 90+ (except neuro, 88), surgery grade was 93
-Excellent comments from m3 evals going into dean's letter (fwiw)
-Strong letters (home PD, chairman, and ortho director of research attending I've worked with since first year), especially from home PD who gave excellent feedback (love my home program)
- Research (all 2nd-4th authorship): 1 AJSM paper, 1 JOR paper, 3 papers in submission to JBJS and AJSM, 2 oral presentations (I presented one; for the second I was not the presenter but an author of the presented study), 3 posters (presenter on 2 of them; co-author on the 3rd), 4 submitted abstracts, 1 non-ortho project hoping to submit manuscript in December
-4th letter from chairman of my first away rotation (also loved this program and I busted it)
-1st away rotation: received better feedback than I could've imagined, was told by an attending on the decision committee that everyone had really positive things to say about me (spent time with almost every attending and resident), he hopes I strongly consider applying there (of course I am!) and even that he thinks I'll match there if I rank them
-current away rotation: more students and faculty than 1st rotation, and not set up well to get significant 1-on-1 time with many faculty or residents (not asking for letter from here....using my previous 4 letters for all apps)

Questions:
1) Do I need to take the comments from my first away rotation with a grain of salt (ie "I think you'll match here if you apply and rank this program"), or are these types of comments as honest and genuine as I took them to be and an opportunity that I should take and run with because I was fortunate enough to get that type of feedback?

2) Aside from really strong performances on my home and away rotations, is my on-paper app strong enough to get considered by a healthy amount of programs? (I realize once I get an interview offer, it's up to me from then on; but I'd like to know if my paper application will bring in enough interviews to feel comfortable about having somewhere to go come match day). I'm applying to 60 programs.

Don't take this wrong, but except for your research you're an average matched ortho candidate, which is to say you'd be an exceptional applicant in any other field, but in ortho you're average. That means you'll most likely get a solid program somewhere as long as you attend 12+ interviews. I would have rec'd applying to 80 programs. It's seriously that competitive.

Never take someone saying you'll match there if you rank them highly as truth. Match day is truth. Over half the people I know promised a spot last year if they ranked a program highly ended up somewhere else despite those promises. You never know what happens behind closed doors when it comes time to make the match list. A promise in August is worth a lot less than a promise at the end of January.

Agree with akwho. It's good for your confidence, but don't trust anything you hear. Shoot for your Number One program, but I wouldn't sign a lease on your new apartment yet. Your Step 1 is the weak point in your app. Be prepared to talk up your research and go on as many interviews as you can. Honestly, I don't think there is a real difference between 60 and 80 apps. Those extra 20 random programs will be low yield anyway because theyre probably smaller programs further away that wouldn't expect you to rank them so they don't interview you anyway.

Good luck, hope everything works out.
 

massmocha

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Just out of curiosity, what is the Step 1 threshold where one's score is no longer considered a weak point? Thanks in advance! :)

Mean Step 1 score for matched applicants in most recent Charting Outcomes is 245, so you want to be above that. Mean unmatched is 231, so you want to be WELL above that. I think anything over 250 looks good enough. So 247 is about average for matched applicants, but in comparison to an app filled with excellent research, honors, etc, an average Step 1 is a weak point on the app. Doesn't mean you won't match, but if you had the same app with a 260, there would be no weak point (unless you have no social skills - which tends to get weeded out in the clinical grades).
 
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joker2400

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Mean Step 1 score for matched applicants in most recent Charting Outcomes is 245, so you want to be above that. Mean unmatched is 231, so you want to be WELL above that. I think anything over 250 looks good enough. So 247 is about average for matched applicants, but in comparison to an app filled with excellent research, honors, etc, an average Step 1 is a weak point on the app. Doesn't mean you won't match, but if you had the same app with a 260, there would be no weak point (unless you have no social skills - which tends to get weeded out in the clinical grades).
The new one is out. The avg in it is 247
 
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OrthoHopeful865

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Hello all, I would really appreciate any advice you could give me.

I'm an M3 at a mid-tier MD program in the south. I've had my heart set on Ortho since the beginning of Med school, but the recent release of the charting outcomes definitely has me worried. Please be as honest as possible about my chances and what I may need to do to increase my chances.

Background:
- I'm from a small town, and I would love to return there. So, I'd ideally go to a program that would do a great job of training me as a general orthopod. Tier of program doesn't bother me. I'd just love to be able to practice in the field. I was raised on a farm, and I love the blue collar nature of Ortho. So, I'm definitely not afraid of working hard on aways and such.
- Step 1 = 243
- AOA = Probably not but definitely close to top 1/3 or so.
- Clinical grades = 1 A and 1 B so far.
- Research = I don't have anything published yet, but I am currently working on an Ortho project that we'll get a few presentations and a publication out of.
- EC's = Several with multiple leadership positions.
- LOR = I definitely have one letter from an Ortho surgeon from back home that knows me very well.

Once again, any input would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
 

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Hello everyone, would love to get some feedback of what my chances would be for ortho. I honestly haven't had any inclination of doing surgery at all until some soul searching and career exploration recently, so I'm not sure whether I'm too late into the game.

- M3 currently at a top 10 school
- Step 1 = mid 260s
- M 1/2 were P/F
- M3 grades so far: Honors in Psych and IM, High Pass in Ob/Gyn
- Research: in totally unrelated field, but have 3 publications (1 first author, will likely have 1 more by the time I apply), 3 poster presentations, and 1 oral presentation at national conferences.

Any input as to where I stand currently and whether I need to delve into some ortho research would be greatly appreciated. Also, should step 2 be taken early or late?
 

4thQTHailMary

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Hello everyone, would love to get some feedback of what my chances would be for ortho. I honestly haven't had any inclination of doing surgery at all until some soul searching and career exploration recently, so I'm not sure whether I'm too late into the game.

- M3 currently at a top 10 school
- Step 1 = mid 260s
- M 1/2 were P/F
- M3 grades so far: Honors in Psych and IM, High Pass in Ob/Gyn
- Research: in totally unrelated field, but have 3 publications (1 first author, will likely have 1 more by the time I apply), 3 poster presentations, and 1 oral presentation at national conferences.

Any input as to where I stand currently and whether I need to delve into some ortho research would be greatly appreciated. Also, should step 2 be taken early or late?
Step 2 won't matter for you except another gold star. Research is actually more than most candidates, and really it helps to have non-ortho stuff as it differentiates you from others. Get a couple of ortho projects going and strong letters and you will pull views across the board.
 

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So I finally got a paper published, my 1st. I didn't have much to supplement me ERAS app. Academic side was solid with 260s Step 1&2 and AOA, but don't have much to separate myself otherwise. Would it be worth emailing most of the programs to inform them of this? Trying to balance the need for research and ability to get and interview with the desire to not be annoying to people who have hundreds of apps to go over and people already contacting them about unimportant things.
 
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Dires

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So I finally got a paper published, my 1st. I didn't have much to supplement me ERAS app. Academic side was solid with 260s Step 1&2 and AOA, but don't have much to separate myself otherwise. Would it be worth emailing most of the programs to inform them of this? Trying to balance the need for research and ability to get and interview with the desire to not be annoying to people who have hundreds of apps to go over and people already contacting them about unimportant things.

I'm just a med student, but it really doesn't seem like you need to do that. You have an epic app just use it (your pub) as an ace in your pocket for interviews.
 

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So I finally got a paper published, my 1st. I didn't have much to supplement me ERAS app. Academic side was solid with 260s Step 1&2 and AOA, but don't have much to separate myself otherwise. Would it be worth emailing most of the programs to inform them of this? Trying to balance the need for research and ability to get and interview with the desire to not be annoying to people who have hundreds of apps to go over and people already contacting them about unimportant things.


Not saying that you should, you have to decide, but I did send an email to all the CT I6 programs that I had applied to via ERAS when one more of my papers was accepted for publication (not my first publication). Matched to my top choice, solid, mature and absolutely incredible CT I6 residency.

Best of Luck :)

P.S. Applied to 27 out of 29 CT I6 programs as well as GS programs (broadly).
 
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massmocha

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Hey everyone, looking for some feedback on how to improve/chances:

M3 at a top 20 school
Step 1 = 260+
M3 Grades so far = H in OB/GYN, HP in Surgery and Peds, P in Anesthesia
Pubs = 1 Ortho paper, 1 gen surg abstract, 4 posters (1 national Ortho), 2 podium (both national - 1 Ortho), currently working on a basic sci pub & another Ortho pub
Fun fact = developed an app concept in med school & presented it nationally (won competition)

Frankly, my fear is the HP in Surgery. My shelf score missed the cutoff. I dislike being neurotic, but appreciate any constructive feedback. Thank you!

Great app, shoot for the stars, rotate where you want to match. The HP won't kill you, but may be asked about it.
 

VincentAdultman

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Hey everyone, looking for some feedback on how to improve/chances:

M3 at a top 20 school
Step 1 = 260+
M3 Grades so far = H in OB/GYN, HP in Surgery and Peds, P in Anesthesia
Pubs = 1 Ortho paper, 1 gen surg abstract, 4 posters (1 national Ortho), 2 podium (both national - 1 Ortho), currently working on a basic sci pub & another Ortho pub
Fun fact = developed an app concept in med school & presented it nationally (won competition)

Frankly, my fear is the HP in Surgery. My shelf score missed the cutoff. I dislike being neurotic, but appreciate any constructive feedback. Thank you!

Boy some things never change. I read the same posts when I interviewed ten years ago.

Take a step back. You do to a top medical school. You scored 260. You have extensive research. Your app designing will probably be a good convo topic on interviews. You may get asked about your surgery grade. Whatever. It's far from a deal breaker.... ESPECIALLY if you do well on rotations.
 

GandalfTheWhite

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Current MS3
School Rank: ~25 MD school
Preclinical grades: average
Step 1: 239
Clinical grades: H or NH (near honors) so far. H in Surg. Waiting on FM/IM/Neuro. School has F/P/HP/NH/H system.
No AOA. Will be 2nd Quartile by end of 3rd year
Research: 2 pubs (2nd and 3rd) 2 poster presentations, 1 abstract, 1 conference. 1 year of research experience from my masters degree with thesis/dissertation published at schools journal.
1 strong LOR from renown guy in research field. Should be able to get strong SLOR and chairmans letter.

Assuming a 250-260 S2, WAMC?
 

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Current MS3
School Rank: ~25 MD school
Preclinical grades: average
Step 1: 239
Clinical grades: H or NH (near honors) so far. H in Surg. Waiting on FM/IM/Neuro. School has F/P/HP/NH/H system.
No AOA. Will be 2nd Quartile by end of 3rd year
Research: 2 pubs (2nd and 3rd) 2 poster presentations, 1 abstract, 1 conference. 1 year of research experience from my masters degree with thesis/dissertation published at schools journal.
1 strong LOR from renown guy in research field. Should be able to get strong SLOR and chairmans letter.

Assuming a 250-260 S2, WAMC?
Its hard to say really. Going into the process I thought I was a fairly competitive applicant, but I did not receive as many interviews as I was hoping. It sounded like that was the theme with the other applicants from my school as well. A couple of PDs mentioned that this was by far the most competitive year they have had.
 

Chillbo Baggins

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Obviously I've combed through Charting the Outcomes and talked to many people, but neuroticism always likes another perspective!

MS3
School: state school, Texas
Preclinical: all honors
Step 1: low 250s
Clinicals: so far Honors in Surg and Peds, HP in FM
AOA: junior eligible (top 15%), not picked. Hoping to get senior
Research: 3 ortho projects, one dead ended, one got a poster and abstract at my school's research week, hoping to publish somewhere, and the last one just got started but hoping for some posters and pubs. 1 non-ortho research with school poster

Planning for home rotation, 2 in-state and 1 out-of-state aways. Honestly happy to match anywhere, but would prefer Texas spots.
 

GandalfTheWhite

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Its hard to say really. Going into the process I thought I was a fairly competitive applicant, but I did not receive as many interviews as I was hoping. It sounded like that was the theme with the other applicants from my school as well. A couple of PDs mentioned that this was by far the most competitive year they have had.
Well, how did it turn out?
 

Crichton

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Curious about my chances. Current 4th year, spent the last few months applying to a non-surgical field. Have taken some orthopedic electives and have found that I really enjoy it and I am contemplating a switch.

School: top 25
Preclinical: all pass (P/F system)
Step 1: 260+
Step 2: 260+
Clinicals: all Honors
Elected to AOA, top quartile of class
Research: 1 publication, 3 abstracts, school poster (all non-orthopedic, non-surgical)

Plan would be to take the rest of the year to get involved with some clinical research, then do home + 2-3 away rotations. I'm just not sure how feasible all of this is given my late switch, especially when it seems so many people have been working towards the field since first year. Thank you to all who are willing to offer their opinion.
 
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Crichton

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Curious about my chances. Current 4th year, spent the last few months applying to a non-surgical field. Have taken some orthopedic electives and have found that I really enjoy it and I am contemplating a switch.

School: top 25
Preclinical: all pass (P/F system)
Step 1: 260+
Step 2: 260+
Clinicals: all Honors
Elected to AOA, top quartile of class
Research: 1 publication, 3 abstracts, school poster (all non-orthopedic, non-surgical)

Plan would be to take the rest of the year to get involved with some clinical research, then do home + 2-3 away rotations. I'm just not sure how feasible all of this is given my late switch, especially when it seems so many people have been working towards the field since first year. Thank you to all who are willing to offer their opinion.

Any opinions on the above? Would greatly appreciate it.
 

iceman55

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Curious about my chances. Current 4th year, spent the last few months applying to a non-surgical field. Have taken some orthopedic electives and have found that I really enjoy it and I am contemplating a switch.

School: top 25
Preclinical: all pass (P/F system)
Step 1: 260+
Step 2: 260+
Clinicals: all Honors
Elected to AOA, top quartile of class
Research: 1 publication, 3 abstracts, school poster (all non-orthopedic, non-surgical)

Plan would be to take the rest of the year to get involved with some clinical research, then do home + 2-3 away rotations. I'm just not sure how feasible all of this is given my late switch, especially when it seems so many people have been working towards the field since first year. Thank you to all who are willing to offer their opinion.

you are currently a 4th So you have already submitted your ERAS application to a non surgical field and have done interviews?




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Crichton

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you are currently a 4th So you have already submitted your ERAS application to a non surgical field and have done interviews?




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Yes. For a lot reasons, I am contemplating not submitting a rank list for the match and taking the rest of the year "off." Would get involved with clinical research and then come back for a fifth year to apply into orthopedics.
 

massmocha

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Obviously I've combed through Charting the Outcomes and talked to many people, but neuroticism always likes another perspective!

MS3
School: state school, Texas
Preclinical: all honors
Step 1: low 250s
Clinicals: so far Honors in Surg and Peds, HP in FM
AOA: junior eligible (top 15%), not picked. Hoping to get senior
Research: 3 ortho projects, one dead ended, one got a poster and abstract at my school's research week, hoping to publish somewhere, and the last one just got started but hoping for some posters and pubs. 1 non-ortho research with school poster

Planning for home rotation, 2 in-state and 1 out-of-state aways. Honestly happy to match anywhere, but would prefer Texas spots.

You'll do fine if you're not weird. Try to honor everything else, especially ob/gyn and psych. It says you do well no matter what you do
 
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massmocha

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Yes. For a lot reasons, I am contemplating not submitting a rank list for the match and taking the rest of the year "off." Would get involved with clinical research and then come back for a fifth year to apply into orthopedics.

Why? Just get started on a project and you would match anywhere. Have you ever published anything?
 

Crichton

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Why? Just get started on a project and you would match anywhere. Have you ever published anything?

Yes, I have one publication and 3 abstracts in non-surgical field.

I wouldn't submit my rank list next week so I wouldn't have to start a residency come July. Instead, stay for a fifth year at medical school to start a project, do home/away rotations, interview etc.
 

chalupabatman420

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Curious about my chances. Because of my mediocre application I am considering dual applying to ortho and radiology.
I have 2 ortho projects 1 that was completed which led to poster and abstract publication, and 1 the is currently in the works, but have worked with the same PI for the last 3 years
Step 1 - 235
Preclinical grades are mostly high pass
Clinical grades mostly High pass, no AOA

I am planning on taking step 2 early and doing 1 acting internship at my school and 2 away rotations. What would be good resource for me to use to find good places to do aways? Any other advice would be greatly appreciated!
 

massmocha

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Curious about my chances. Because of my mediocre application I am considering dual applying to ortho and radiology.
I have 2 ortho projects 1 that was completed which led to poster and abstract publication, and 1 the is currently in the works, but have worked with the same PI for the last 3 years
Step 1 - 235
Preclinical grades are mostly high pass
Clinical grades mostly High pass, no AOA

I am planning on taking step 2 early and doing 1 acting internship at my school and 2 away rotations. What would be good resource for me to use to find good places to do aways? Any other advice would be greatly appreciated!
Gonna be tough to match in the current applicant pool. If you're considering radiology, maybe go all in that way. Will be tough to apply without any experience in the field I would assume.
 

Thinks

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Recently caught the ortho bug. Want to do it. Need to do it. Nothing else.

Top 10 school
Step1: 245
Pre-Clinical P/F
Clinical: P Neuro, Ob/Gyn; HP: Psych; Other grades pending
Pubs: One Basic Science, Two clinical papers pending. One abstractAll Non-Ortho. Getting involved in Ortho reserach now.
Lots of Volunteers/Leadership

Would like to be at a decent program. Not necessarily top tier. But do want to do some research so preferably not community.

Questions:
1. Will my lack of ortho reserach hurt me?
2. Do I need to take Step 2?
3. How many aways should I aim for (want to be in north east--any programs recommended?).

Any help is much appreciated.
 

massmocha

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Recently caught the ortho bug. Want to do it. Need to do it. Nothing else.

Top 10 school
Step1: 245
Pre-Clinical P/F
Clinical: P Neuro, Ob/Gyn; HP: Psych; Other grades pending
Pubs: One Basic Science, Two clinical papers pending. One abstractAll Non-Ortho. Getting involved in Ortho reserach now.
Lots of Volunteers/Leadership

Would like to be at a decent program. Not necessarily top tier. But do want to do some research so preferably not community.

Questions:
1. Will my lack of ortho reserach hurt me?
2. Do I need to take Step 2?
3. How many aways should I aim for (want to be in north east--any programs recommended?).

Any help is much appreciated.

Why did you get pass in neuro and ob/gyn? That's gonna be a red flag on the application. I would take step 2. Research won't be a problem, just be able to talk about what you have done and what you're starting to do in ortho. Depends on your school for aways, some only do 2 plus home, more common it seems is 3 plus home.
 

VincentAdultman

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Recently caught the ortho bug. Want to do it. Need to do it. Nothing else.

Top 10 school
Step1: 245
Pre-Clinical P/F
Clinical: P Neuro, Ob/Gyn; HP: Psych; Other grades pending
Pubs: One Basic Science, Two clinical papers pending. One abstractAll Non-Ortho. Getting involved in Ortho reserach now.
Lots of Volunteers/Leadership

Would like to be at a decent program. Not necessarily top tier. But do want to do some research so preferably not community.

Questions:
1. Will my lack of ortho reserach hurt me?
2. Do I need to take Step 2?
3. How many aways should I aim for (want to be in north east--any programs recommended?).

Any help is much appreciated.

I'd try to do three aways provided you have a strong work ethic, aren't socially awkward, and can handle four months of ortho without burning out.
 

iceman55

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Why did you get pass in neuro and ob/gyn? That's gonna be a red flag on the application. I would take step 2. Research won't be a problem, just be able to talk about what you have done and what you're starting to do in ortho. Depends on your school for aways, some only do 2 plus home, more common it seems is 3 plus home.

Is getting passes really a red flag? At my school 65% of students on any given rotation gets a P.


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Burla

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Is getting passes really a red flag? At my school 65% of students on any given rotation gets a P.
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People on here always say so but my program says that the majority of schools have grade inflation so clinical grade are essentially meaningless
 

joker2400

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Is getting passes really a red flag? At my school 65% of students on any given rotation gets a P.


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What really matters is your final class rank. If you are in the bottom 65% then ....
 
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DryHopped

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What really matters is your final class rank. If you are in the bottom 65% then ....
This, according to sdn and orthogate I didn't have a chance of matching ortho bc I received no honors grades 3rd year but I ended up with 11 interviews and matched. Getting honors definitely helps a lot but not receiving a bunch of honors grades in 3rd year isn't a deal breaker if you have good board scores and decent class rank.

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massmocha

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Is getting passes really a red flag? At my school 65% of students on any given rotation gets a P.


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Yes, it's a "red flag" as in why take you compared to someone who honors every rotation? They want to know about your work ethic and they have limited means to do so aside from clinical grades and USMLE
 

massmocha

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This, according to sdn and orthogate I didn't have a chance of matching ortho bc I received no honors grades 3rd year but I ended up with 11 interviews and matched. Getting honors definitely helps a lot but not receiving a bunch of honors grades in 3rd year isn't a deal breaker if you have good board scores and decent class rank.

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Agree, I am not saying you WON'T match, I'm saying the goal is all honors and as high a board score as possible. There's no answer if you get X grade and X board score you will match, of course. So maximize your efforts in every aspect of med school to optimize your chances. Reviewing grades after the fact (i.e. this thread) is just speculation, only time will tell if any individual will match or not.
 
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