JGW

Dec 23, 2009
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So I was snooping around here and noticed that some people are saying that its easier for a DO to go into Orthopedics than an MD? I want to pursue a career in orthopedics(sports medicine) and I know MD school is out of reach. I hope to attend a DO school when I finish my undergrad.....how true is this statement?
 
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So I was snooping around here and noticed that some people are saying that its easier for a DO to go into Orthopedics than an MD? I want to pursue a career in orthopedics(sports medicine) and I know MD school is out of reach. I hope to attend a DO school when I finish my undergrad.....how true is this statement?
Not true. It's hard for both, and probably harder for a DO.
 

UpwardTrend

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While DO's have a decent representation in ortho compared to other specialties...

It is very difficult to match into an ortho residency no matter who you are. You must do really well in med school then do awesome on the licensing exams. You will want to take USMLE in addition to the COMLEX to have any chances. But yeah I do know DO's in ortho.

http://www.aoao.org/index.html

Are you interested in that specialty because the ortho doc you shadowed drives a ferrari and has a gigantic house? Well he also works 70 hours a week.

http://www.aoao.org/index.html
 

JGW

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Are you interested in that specialty because the ortho doc you shadowed drives a ferrari and has a gigantic house? Well he also works 70 hours a week.
lol. I use to work 50 hours a week in high school doing something I didn't like. 70 hours should be a breeze.
 

FrkyBgStok

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a gigantic house and ferrari? looks like ortho is my new favorite specialty.
 

Skippygonenuts

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One of my MD friends who just matched into ortho was telling me that the national average for the USMLE to get into ortho was about a 230 and it only goes up from there. So aim high since 4 years from now that 230 is gonna be a 240.
 

Instatewaiter

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I imagine the OP is a troll but here are some figures:

In the allopathic match last year: a total of 5 DOs matched ortho. 620 MDs matched in the allo match

In the osteo match there are about 85 spots a year for only DOs.

There are about 4500 DOs and about 15000 MDs who graduate each year.
 

MossPoh

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lol. I use to work 50 hours a week in high school doing something I didn't like. 70 hours should be a breeze.
70+ of medicine is much different. That usually isn't including time on call or other miscellaneous crap as well. The ungodly rich orthopod isn't tremendously common. The very well off one is, but their lifestyle tends to be a little worse than many other surgical sub specialities because people like to break stuff at all hours. In a field like urology there are very few emergencies.
 

FutureCTDoc

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70+ of medicine is much different. That usually isn't including time on call or other miscellaneous crap as well. The ungodly rich orthopod isn't tremendously common. The very well off one is, but their lifestyle tends to be a little worse than many other surgical sub specialities because people like to break stuff at all hours. In a field like urology there are very few emergencies.
Urology gets called in all the time for testicular torsion and priapism. Also OP 70 hours is really light for any surgical subspecialty, try tacking on a few dozen more hours a week, technically illegal, but still a common practice.
 

Tekar

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In a field like urology there are very few emergencies.
Funny.. I once heard a Urologist refer to herself as the on-call Foley Tech (catheters in the urethra for those without clinical experience) and that when she was on call, she didn't sleep.
 

da Vincis World

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Urology gets called in all the time for testicular torsion and priapism. Also OP 70 hours is really light for any surgical subspecialty, try tacking on a few dozen more hours a week, technically illegal, but still a common practice.
Illegal??? I thought work hour limits were only for residents.
 

FutureCTDoc

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Illegal??? I thought work hour limits were only for residents.
And that is what is being discussed. Residency hours, the 80 hour rule and moonlighting. Illegal was perhaps a poor choice of words, verboten.
 

cliffhuxtableDO

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And that is what is being discussed. Residency hours, the 80 hour rule and moonlighting. Illegal was perhaps a poor choice of words, verboten.
i thought the conversation was about the lifestyle of a fully trained ortho. either way, you're both right.
 

Master Deep

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There is an Ortho doc that lives down the street from me. He's a cool guy. 38 years old, 3 million dollar house, an Aston Martin Vanquish S, Bentley Continental GT, 2 Range Rovers, and couple other cars. NO KIDS.

That said, ortho is a tough field and you have to work high hours and can get called into the hospital in the middle of the night. But if you love the specialty, then it may be worth it for you.
 

FutureCTDoc

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There is an Ortho doc that lives down the street from me. He's a cool guy. 38 years old, 3 million dollar house, an Aston Martin Vanquish S, Bentley Continental GT, 2 Range Rovers, and couple other cars. NO KIDS.

That said, ortho is a tough field and you have to work high hours and can get called into the hospital in the middle of the night. But if you love the specialty, then it may be worth it for you.
If you have a decent practice in a good specialty it's not that difficult to do w/o a significant other or kids. Of course it may be as my uncle said "musical", all on a note. He's either doing exceptionally well or more likely he is overextended, according to salary.com the median is 400K, and the 25-75 300K and 500K respectively. Unless he's doing spines, it seems like a lot unless he went debt free and inherited a practice.
 

jphwki82

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I have 3 uncles, all of whom are Orthopedic Surgeons. They all have the huge house, cars, planes, boats, and other toys. One even purchased land and built a dirt bike track. A lot of that has put them in extremely large debt, and they live far outside their means. Not to say that living that life style isn't possible for some Orthopods, but you don't know how much of that is being funded via loans and etc. They can afford the bills for sure, but will be working for quite sometime to pay down their debt.
 
Jun 25, 2009
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I have 3 uncles, all of whom are Orthopedic Surgeons. They all have the huge house, cars, planes, boats, and other toys. One even purchased land and built a dirt bike track. A lot of that has put them in extremely large debt, and they live far outside their means. Not to say that living that life style isn't possible for some Orthopods, but you don't know how much of that is being funded via loans and etc. They can afford the bills for sure, but will be working for quite sometime to pay down their debt.
You raise a terrific point. There is a great book called The Millionaire Next Door where the author states doctors as a whole have one of the lowest rates of net worth out of all the professions in his studies. Why? Because they usually take on an excessive debt burden. Most people like to spend money if they have it, and doctors seem to have a need to look rich. We don't have a clue about their personal balance sheets even though everything may look rosy from the outside looking in.
 

elektroshok

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You raise a terrific point. There is a great book called The Millionaire Next Door where the author states doctors as a whole have one of the lowest rates of net worth out of all the professions in his studies. Why? Because they usually take on an excessive debt burden. Most people like to spend money if they have it, and doctors seem to have a need to look rich. We don't have a clue about their personal balance sheets even though everything may look rosy from the outside looking in.
A MUST read!
 

jphwki82

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You raise a terrific point. There is a great book called The Millionaire Next Door where the author states doctors as a whole have one of the lowest rates of net worth out of all the professions in his studies. Why? Because they usually take on an excessive debt burden. Most people like to spend money if they have it, and doctors seem to have a need to look rich. We don't have a clue about their personal balance sheets even though everything may look rosy from the outside looking in.
Thanks for the reference, Ill definately have to check out the book. I agree that this matter is a greater societal issue. Hence the all the houses in foreclosure.
 

JeetKuneDo

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Not only, painful and embarrassing, but also life threatening, love life that is.
My god. I remember freshman year of high school we learned about testicular torsion. Scared the sh!t out of me. I remember going to sleep every night holding my boys in place so that they don't move out of place. I also remember making sure that I didn't make any sudden movements while sleeping. Good times.
 

Master Deep

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You raise a terrific point. There is a great book called The Millionaire Next Door where the author states doctors as a whole have one of the lowest rates of net worth out of all the professions in his studies. Why? Because they usually take on an excessive debt burden. Most people like to spend money if they have it, and doctors seem to have a need to look rich. We don't have a clue about their personal balance sheets even though everything may look rosy from the outside looking in.
But doctors are also not going to be losing a job anytime soon and can keep making their payments.

That said, I refuse to take out a loan and pay interest on anything except a house and school loans. Everything else will be paid off at the end of the month or with cash so I have no interest to pay. If I can't afford something, I'll just save up till I can. That is how I was brought up and it served both me and my parents well. :)
 

JaggerPlate

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freshman year of high school ... I remember going to sleep every night holding my boys ... I also remember making ... sudden movements ... Good times.

Ummm this is definitely a subject covered in Freshman Health ... but it's not testicular torsion.


:smuggrin:




Yes ... I'm horribly immature.
 
Jun 25, 2009
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Thanks for the reference, Ill definately have to check out the book. I agree that this matter is a greater societal issue. Hence the all the houses in foreclosure.
I agree that it is a problem with our society in general, but I think what the author was trying to get at is that higher income professionals feel greater pressure to play the part. This applies to I-bankers and lawyers, too. So even though they should be better off than the average joe, they're really not because they tend to accumulate a high amount of debt.
 
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But doctors are also not going to be losing a job anytime soon and can keep making their payments.
Yes, but you have to pay the debt off eventually. You can't work forever.

That said, I refuse to take out a loan and pay interest on anything except a house and school loans. Everything else will be paid off at the end of the month or with cash so I have no interest to pay. If I can't afford something, I'll just save up till I can. That is how I was brought up and it served both me and my parents well. :)
That's the way to do it...
 

apevo8

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ortho surgeons in general make good money but they work LONG hours. I work on a ortho surgical floor and these guys start at 5am to do their rounds, then do surgery till atleast 5-6pm even later if there are still cases and then sometimes then will round later that night. Usually doing that 4 to 5 days a week, tough schedule but the $$$ is good. Its hard period to match into a othropedic surgery list but DO's can choose the osteopathic residencies for orthopedic surgery, not alot of still there.
 

MossPoh

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I have stated this over and over again, as have tons of others on these boards. Go into the speciality you love. Put blinders on with income. For one thing, it changes and tends to go in waves. While cliche, one has to do what they love.

I recently attended a presentation by Dr. Arnold Relman. He was editor for the NEJM for quite some time and is a prof at Harvard. Amongst his many points about what was needed to reform healthcare, was to somehow take money out of the equation. No, not to drop it to some low level but have relatively fixed numbers that don't change too much between specialities (aside from the extent of time one is working).

I attended this presentation with my father, who is a physician. Afterwards, while we were eating, I mentioned that I find it would be a near impossible feat to do such a thing. Before he could reply, I asked him the question I was afraid to ask him when I was applying to medical schools.

"If you could go back in time, to that exact moment you chose medicine over any other field, would you do it again?"

Without any hesitation he replied along the lines of, "You meet many doctors who are tired, bitter and hate what they do. I'm a radiologist. Obviously I make a lot more money relative to other specialities. Regardless of that fact, you could cut my income in half tomorrow and I'd still be excited to go into work. I chose what I love. I get paid to do friggin puzzles for a living. Every day I walk into that hospital and realize how lucky I am for my opportunities. I am helping people who need it the most and I get paid to find waldo. After over 50 years of medicine, not a week goes by that I don't see something new or interesting. Something that I have to get a book and look up. Something that challenges me. So yes, if I could go back in time, I would absolutely pick this path."

What makes him different from those tired and angry doctors? He chose what he loves and not what he thought would make him the most money. (At the time, radiology was not popular at all by the way.)
 

FutureCTDoc

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Money has a lot to do with one's choice of specialty. For someone with 300K in debt their love of FP doesn't put food on the table. Money should be part of a decision making process amongst a litany of other things including, but not limited to level of interest, lifestyle, practice opportunities, satisfaction, how competitive one is for that specialty and how one wants to practice i.e. hospital based, private practice, group. Those should all figure into your decision making process. Ignoring money is inappropriate if you want to live well, retire early, have access to wealth it helps.
 
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Amen.

I have stated this over and over again, as have tons of others on these boards. Go into the speciality you love. Put blinders on with income. For one thing, it changes and tends to go in waves. While cliche, one has to do what they love.

I recently attended a presentation by Dr. Arnold Relman. He was editor for the NEJM for quite some time and is a prof at Harvard. Amongst his many points about what was needed to reform healthcare, was to somehow take money out of the equation. No, not to drop it to some low level but have relatively fixed numbers that don't change too much between specialities (aside from the extent of time one is working).

I attended this presentation with my father, who is a physician. Afterwards, while we were eating, I mentioned that I find it would be a near impossible feat to do such a thing. Before he could reply, I asked him the question I was afraid to ask him when I was applying to medical schools.

"If you could go back in time, to that exact moment you chose medicine over any other field, would you do it again?"

Without any hesitation he replied along the lines of, "You meet many doctors who are tired, bitter and hate what they do. I'm a radiologist. Obviously I make a lot more money relative to other specialities. Regardless of that fact, you could cut my income in half tomorrow and I'd still be excited to go into work. I chose what I love. I get paid to do friggin puzzles for a living. Every day I walk into that hospital and realize how lucky I am for my opportunities. I am helping people who need it the most and I get paid to find waldo. After over 50 years of medicine, not a week goes by that I don't see something new or interesting. Something that I have to get a book and look up. Something that challenges me. So yes, if I could go back in time, I would absolutely pick this path."

What makes him different from those tired and angry doctors? He chose what he loves and not what he thought would make him the most money. (At the time, radiology was not popular at all by the way.)
 

MaximusD

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So I was snooping around here and noticed that some people are saying that its easier for a DO to go into Orthopedics than an MD? I want to pursue a career in orthopedics(sports medicine) and I know MD school is out of reach. I hope to attend a DO school when I finish my undergrad.....how true is this statement?
Untrue completely. MDs have many more spots as well within ACGME programs, meaning lower DO match rates. There are a fair amt of DO spots too though. I'm going to say this LOUDLY:

1. If you want to specialize, MD is the path of least resistance to varying degrees based on location and GME slots associated with a given DO school or familiar with DO graduates. DO students have been successful in getting competitive residencies, but to varying degrees based on location and familiarity.

2. A weak MD applicant is a weak applicant. A strong DO applicant is better than a weak MD applicant in MOST cases in the MD match.

3. MD programs would often rather and frequently have an obligation to take their own. It's their home turf. If that pisses you off, swallow this: OUR RESIDENCIES DONT EVEN ACCEPT MD STUDENTS!

That is all for now :D Go back to your angst-ridden pre-med world :) I'll go back for my studying-for-comlex2-on-a-sat-night world. *sigh*
 

MaximusD

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lol. I use to work 50 hours a week in high school doing something I didn't like. 70 hours should be a breeze.
Ah but add in time to work out, study, eat, shop for food/essentials, and see your significant other and you'll find there's not enough time in the day.
 

JaggerPlate

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Wow, okay so in case people haven't noticed ...

Someone made an account called 'JagerPlate' as opposed to my SN, which is 'JaggerPlate,' and has copied my avatar and my status, etc, and is posting ... please ignore for the time being.