Osteopathic Schools and Teaching Hospitals

[Lshapley]

Hey everybody,

I had posted this question within a thread on the non-trad board the other day and I thought I would post it here as a main topic to see if I can get the opinion of some more potential and current D.O.'s.

Why does it seem that many of the allopathic medical schools have choosen to build teaching hospitals as part of their programs, while the osteopathic schools seem to have clinics, offices and rounds at community hospitals? Are there any osteopathic schools that have hospitals on campus? Due to the rising number of D.O.'s going into specialties besides primary care, is there a movement for the creation of teaching hospitals on campus? Do the administrations at the osteopathic schools consider themselves only training doctors to be in primary care? Is the opposite true for allopathic schools?

I am in Philadelphia and I notice this very clearly here where, as a patient, I can go to Penn, Jefferson, Temple or Hannemahn (now Drexel) for emergency care or to stay as a patient. However, for PCOM, I can only go there to see a doctor in his office (perhaps they have a clinic too?) I also noticed this as I looked into some other osteopathic schools online.

Do students in the osteopathic programs have more of an opportunity to see what primary care work is like? Do allopathic students have less of an opportunity?

Is the potential positive community feeling (and public relations boost) of having a D.O. teaching hospital on campus negated by the potential watering down of the osteopathic philosophy and identity?

One last note, this is not meant to become a D.O. vs. M.D. type of yelling match. Thanks a lot and I look forward to seeing what you have to say!

lee

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Taus]

I don't have time right now to address all of these questions...but here is the list of PCOM's affiliated hospitals (ie where our students do our rotations):

http://www.pcom.edu/Clinical_Education/Affiliate_Lists_/affiliate_lists_.html

I hope you can gather the information that you want w/o this turning into a pissing contest...but...inevitably.....it will....

 

[jkhamlin]

Hey everybody,

I had posted this question within a thread on the non-trad board the other day and I thought I would post it here as a main topic to see if I can get the opinion of some more potential and current D.O.'s.

Why does it seem that many of the allopathic medical schools have choosen to build teaching hospitals as part of their programs, while the osteopathic schools seem to have clinics, offices and rounds at community hospitals?

Historically, Osteopathic schools have been private schools, and Osteopathic physicians were discriminated against at many hospitals. Fortunately, in the last 30 years that trend has turned around, but it is a long difficult process to acquire or otherwise become affiliated with teaching hospitals. Some DO schools such as OSUCOM are successfully changing this.

Are there any osteopathic schools that have hospitals on campus?

I don't know, but there are some who have affiliations with hospitals. KCOM, and OSUCOM are two examples. I don't know much about the schools outside of my region, though.

Due to the rising number of D.O.'s going into specialties besides primary care, is there a movement for the creation of teaching hospitals on campus?

Unknown. However, I think that as time progresses, more of this will happen.

Do the administrations at the osteopathic schools consider themselves only training doctors to be in primary care?

Yes and no. The intent is to be a primary care doctor first, and a specialist second.

Is the opposite true for allopathic schools?

Yes and no. Students are pushed to be specialists at allopathic schools, but they know that many will choose primary care.

I am in Philadelphia and I notice this very clearly here where, as a patient, I can go to Penn, Jefferson, Temple or Hannemahn (now Drexel) for emergency care or to stay as a patient. However, for PCOM, I can only go there to see a doctor in his office (perhaps they have a clinic too?) I also noticed this as I looked into some other osteopathic schools online.

Do students in the osteopathic programs have more of an opportunity to see what primary care work is like?

Yes. Just look at the debates about the Traditional Rotating Internship (TRI).

Do allopathic students have less of an opportunity?

Yes. See above.

Is the potential positive community feeling (and public relations boost) of having a D.O. teaching hospital on campus negated by the potential watering down of the osteopathic philosophy and identity?

I don't think so. The Osteopathic philosophy and identity is quite tenacious and, as long as I'm around, it will exist for a long time to come. This is despite all of the insecure people who claim that they "just want to be a doctor" and "don't care which initials" they have, and also despite the relentless efforts by the allopathic world to simultaneously try to squelch Osteopathic medicine and yet more and more adopt the principles of Osteopathic medicine.

One last note, this is not meant to become a D.O. vs. M.D. type of yelling match. Thanks a lot and I look forward to seeing what you have to say!

lee

Unfortunately, it probably will become one the instant the insecure pre allopaths and some really insecure pre allopathic sympathizers in the pre Osteopathic forums catch a whiff of blood.

 

[aertzin]

The Osteopathic philosophy and identity is quite tenacious and, as long as I'm around, it will exist for a long time to come.

Look everyone! It's Captain DO, defender of the osteopathic philosophy. LMAO. Seriously dude, you take all of this far too seriously.

This is despite all of the insecure people who claim that they "just want to be a doctor" and "don't care which initials" they have

Why is someone who wants to become a physician, and who believes that they will receive equivalent training at an allopathic or osteopathic medical school, insecure? Why are people who feel that way only making a "claim?" Explain.

and also despite the relentless efforts by the allopathic world to simultaneously try to squelch Osteopathic medicine and yet more and more adopt the principles of Osteopathic medicine

Give me some examples of the "relentless efforts" of which you speak.

I've heard that some allopathic schools have started introducing OMM-type courses into the curriculum. Does that represent the "more and more" of which you speak? If not, what other "osteopathic principles" do you see the allopathic medical community adopting?

... the insecure pre allopaths and some really insecure pre allopathic sympathizers in the pre Osteopathic forums ...

What, in your opinion, are pre-allopathis insecure about. Can't wait to hear this answer!

 

[Dr JPH]

PCOM did have a hospital for many years. Unfortunately it was among several hospitals in Philadelphia that was owned by the same organization and didnt make it through the mess of hospitals closings. It was torn down in 2000-2002.

PCOM now has a large number of hospitals where it sends it students...affiliated insitutions that have agreed to take 3rd & 4th year PCOMers. It offers more variety but can also be a pain in the ass.

Many of the osteopathic schools with large university affiliation OR who are state funded do indeed have hospitals.

Many private allopathic medical schools do not have hospitals.

So I dont think its a question of MD v DO and who has the hospitals...I think its a matter of WHO HAS THE MONEY. Unfortunately so many things in life boil down to this.

With that said...there has been much talk whether or not PCOM should go for another hospital or if the school is content with the way things are now.

Our residency programs are well established and the ties with many of the local hospitals is intact...would it be a smart decision financially (and probably with respect to legal and liability issues) to push to open or buy a hospital? Im not so sure.

I can tell you that NOT having a hospital hasnt affected the education at all. In fact, many of the docs you talked to who trained at the old hospital will tell you that our students now are getting a wider variety of experiences than were available to them. I think a bit of the camraderie is lost though and thats a shame.

 

[Nate]

We have a teaching hospital on campus.

 

[koshka]

We have a teaching hospital on campus.

precisely why I will be going there (well...among many many other things)

 

[LECOMComm]

Millcreek Community Hospital in Erie, Pennsylvania founded Lake Erie College of Osteopathic Medicine. The college and hospital are part of Millcreek Health System which also owns Millcreek Geriatrics Education and Care Center - and Medical Associates of Erie our physician network. LECOM also has teaching affiliations with Hamot Medical Center, St. Vincent Health Center and the Erie VA Medical Center in Erie.
Colleges of Osteopathic Medicine operate Osteopathic Postgraduate Training Institutes - networks of teaching hospitals with D.O. residency programs. Lake Erie Consortium of Osteopathic Medical Training (LECOMT) is the LECOM OPTI with about 30 teaching hospitals in five states. LECOM's Clinical Education Department has teaching agreements with about 100 hospitals and clinics.

More information www.lecom.edu; www.lecom.edu/lecomt; www.lecom.edu/lecom/applications/rotations.asp.

 

[docbill]

Millcreek Community Hospital in Erie, Pennsylvania founded Lake Erie College of Osteopathic Medicine. The college and hospital are part of Millcreek Health System which also owns Millcreek Geriatrics Education and Care Center - and Medical Associates of Erie our physician network. LECOM also has teaching affiliations with Hamot Medical Center, St. Vincent Health Center and the Erie VA Medical Center in Erie.
Colleges of Osteopathic Medicine operate Osteopathic Postgraduate Training Institutes - networks of teaching hospitals with D.O. residency programs. Lake Erie Consortium of Osteopathic Medical Training (LECOMT) is the LECOM OPTI with about 30 teaching hospitals in five states. LECOM's Clinical Education Department has teaching agreements with about 100 hospitals and clinics.

More information www.lecom.edu; www.lecom.edu/lecomt; www.lecom.edu/lecom/applications/rotations.asp.

WOW marketing here! Something only DO schools DO!

I would not really call those "teaching hospital" - some are just teaching clinics. FP clinics.. aren't they?? My idea of a teaching hospital is a 100+ bed building with ER, Radiology, Surgery, Internal, Psyc... etc.. but not all the same physicians.

I must say LECOM is winning more respect.

Not only is tuition lower... 10k/year (x4=40k --> one year free tuition) lower than my school. But they have more rotation sites. I don't know about the quality of those sites.... since I did not look.. but definitely more options.

They also have Independent learning track.. where a student can learn on their own... wow.. isn't that what we do now anyway. That would be nice... not to have to be on campus everyday.. and can live outside Erie.

Also even though still starting there reseach stuff is getting there.

But really you have to relax you control issues!!! Students are not as dumb as they appear. I mean.. no drinking or eating in class... cameras.. that is kind of pushing it.

Dress code is not a big issue... especially if you are doing Independent learning stuff...

And administrative staff should take lessons on being more polite and respectful. Remember marketing... nice is better.

 

[docbill]

We have a teaching hospital on campus.

NJ, MSU, OSU, Texas, (state schools- better teaching hospitals)


CCOM, PCOM (very respectful showin)... PCOM alone has lots of CME residency positions.

 

[Dr JPH]

We have a teaching hospital on campus.

And an excellent hospital at that. (And overall very good hospital system)

Not too shabby for the 2nd best DO school in the country.

 

[jkhamlin]

Look everyone! It's Captain DO, defender of the osteopathic philosophy. LMAO. Seriously dude, you take all of this far too seriously.




Why is someone who wants to become a physician, and who believes that they will receive equivalent training at an allopathic or osteopathic medical school, insecure? Why are people who feel that way only making a "claim?" Explain.



Give me some examples of the "relentless efforts" of which you speak.

I've heard that some allopathic schools have started introducing OMM-type courses into the curriculum. Does that represent the "more and more" of which you speak? If not, what other "osteopathic principles" do you see the allopathic medical community adopting?



What, in your opinion, are pre-allopathis insecure about. Can't wait to hear this answer!

Hey, look everyone, it's one of those insecure pre allo trolls. Welcome to your fifth post in pre Osteo. You can go back to your little utopia in pre allo now.

 

[Depakote]

Aww Hell, I'm not gonna even try to resist this urge.

We have a teaching hospital on campus.

Yes, we do.

 

[mshheaddoc]

Aww Hell, I'm not gonna even try to resist this urge.



Yes, we do.

just had to throw the "we" in now, right?

Most osteo schools don't have the funding for hospitals. State funded DO programs are in better shape but even still, I know some of them lack in the funds that their MD counterparts receive. Hence you are going to see clinics and "associated" hospitals.

 

[GregsAnatomy]

NSU-COM has been trying to get its new 150-bed hospital off the ground for several years now, but there have been political issues in the way (namely neighboring hospitals worried that a university-affiliated medical center will take away their patients). I've been told however, the former head of the North Broward Hospital District (who would jointly operate the hospital) is now the head of the state department on hospital accrediting, and they expect to push the the project through this year. You can read more about NSU's medical village hospital here....

http://www.browardhealth.org/body.cfm?id=2232

A hospital on campus is nice, but I'm more thankful that NSU has affiliations with large (700+ bed) county hospitals that we get to rotate through....

 

[beastmaster]

NYCOM has a small clinic on campus. I sat on a faculty meeting last year and there was talk of expanding it, bringing in more in-house clinical faculty. It won't reach hospital status any time soon, but the thought is there. But who knows, in the last 30 years nycom grew from a small auditorium to 3 buildings. Maybe in another 30 there will be more buildings, a living quarters for students, a larger medical facility, or a cleaner new pond for the campus geese.

 

[Dr JPH]

or a cleaner new pond for the campus geese.

That would be good. So interviewees dont need to buy a new pair of shoes after leaving the campus!


BTW...NYIT owes me some new Sketchers.