OT: Friends who are bad owners

[pdjy]

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Have you all had to deal with friends who are bad owners?

I have some friends who don't even do vaccines! At first, I'd get pretty riled up inside but after a few iterations of situations like these, I've learned to deal with them calmly. I basically suggest they listen to their vet and follow his or her recommendations. That's about all I can do.

 

[Golden10]

All you can do is educate them when they ask for it. Otherwise, someones animals medical health is really not something you should be prying into. There are much worse owners out there then ones who don't get there dogs vaccinated. My dogs are not on flea control. Does that make me a bad owner?

Bringing your dog to a vet for anything other then a rabies is more of a choice then a obgulation. And you should respect peoples choices about what they do with there animals. Some people don't have the money for it while others are just uneducated. One way or the other your not going to educate someone who doesn't want to be educated

 

[fromthebox]

I have some friends who are much worse than not getting vaccines. Their dog makes me so sad I don't want to visit. Golden10 is right to a point, it isn't my business to tell them to bring in the dog for routine check ups or vaccines. HOWEVER I also don't believe that "You should respect people's choices about what they do with their animals." (Grammar corrected) in all situations. If I think my friend is uneducated or unaware of a medical issue that I see in their pet, and that bringing it to light could be beneficial I'm going to mention it. If I see my friend abuse their animal, I'm going to mention it. Because I can't respect Michael Vick's choices about what to do with his animals, or any number of other examples. Not that my friends are as bad as Vick.

The worst I've seen was a matted, flea allergic and flea covered (no meds) dog with yellow discharge in both eyes and nasty terribly infected ears. She roams the back yard of a house in Pasadena and gets washed and shaved once a year in the spring. I don't think they've taken her to the vet in the last 5 years or more.

 

[Golden10]

I have some friends who are much worse than not getting vaccines. Their dog makes me so sad I don't want to visit. Golden10 is right to a point, it isn't my business to tell them to bring in the dog for routine check ups or vaccines. HOWEVER I also don't believe that "You should respect people's choices about what they do with their animals." (Grammar corrected) in all situations. If I think my friend is uneducated or unaware of a medical issue that I see in their pet, and that bringing it to light could be beneficial I'm going to mention it. If I see my friend abuse their animal, I'm going to mention it. Because I can't respect Michael Vick's choices about what to do with his animals, or any number of other examples. Not that my friends are as bad as Vick.

The worst I've seen was a matted, flea allergic and flea covered (no meds) dog with yellow discharge in both eyes and nasty terribly infected ears. She roams the back yard of a house in Pasadena and gets washed and shaved once a year in the spring. I don't think they've taken her to the vet in the last 5 years or more.

I agree. If you see an animal being abused or in a dangerous situation the it's a moral responsibilty to act. But instead of voicing your opinion on closed ears just call animal control. If it's really that bad they will be fined until they fix the problem. But for a dog who seems happy and generally healthy, you should not butt into there medical history. It's not your place unless they specifically ask for advice 🙂

 

[Trematode]

What about bad owners when it comes to housing/feed/care etc.?
I know more people who use improper housing and food for pocket pets. Bad fish owners make me .

 

[breenie]

Uhm, not vaccinating isn't a big deal until your brand new puppy gets parvo and you get to watch it die...

I'll cut some people some slack that they just don't KNOW that it can be a problem, (really sweet couple who had their puppy treated by my clinic and were devastated), but in that case... yes. Tell them. Tell them that their puppy can get parvo and die, or they can pay $1000 for the care to try to save it, instead of just getting a $20 vaccine.

Honestly, as someone in this field, I DO think I have an "obgulation" (sic) to inform people. I don't have to be a pushy jerk about it, but yeah, I'm going to make a case to people in my life about why they should take care of their animal.

 

[Golden10]

Uhm, not vaccinating isn't a big deal until your brand new puppy gets parvo and you get to watch it die...

I'll cut some people some slack that they just don't KNOW that it can be a problem, (really sweet couple who had their puppy treated by my clinic and were devastated), but in that case... yes. Tell them. Tell them that their puppy can get parvo and die, or they can pay $1000 for the care to try to save it, instead of just getting a $20 vaccine.

I think its all dependent on the situation though. And from what this poster is saying I gather she has already tried talking to them and they didn't listen. But in general terms if you have friends, neighbors, whatever that clearly don;t want to bring there dog to a vet your probably not going to convince them too.

Like I said its all about giving advice when its asked for or appreciated. If not then stay out of it, or in bad situations, call the proper authorities.

 

[libster06]

The worst I've seen was a matted, flea allergic and flea covered (no meds) dog with yellow discharge in both eyes and nasty terribly infected ears. She roams the back yard of a house in Pasadena and gets washed and shaved once a year in the spring. I don't think they've taken her to the vet in the last 5 years or more.

Unfortunately, what are legally considered "abuse" and "neglect" are often different than what people like us would consider. I have had several classes here on the topic and it's very unfortunate that some people can care so luttle about their animal that they are okay with leaving them infested with fleas and never take them to the vet. But sadly, that isn't considered abuse or neglect. There are many people who don't take their animals to the vet for whatever reason (money usually.... .::bites tongue::.) but that isn't viewed by the law as abuse. Neither is leaving your animal in the backyard. I certainly don't agree with that as a pet owner, but it's how it is.

What IS considered abuse or neglect is if the animal has no access to food or fresh (or even semi-fresh) water, whether they are chained to a fence and how much chain length to roam they have, whether there is malicious beating or physical harm and also hoarding. There are others, but in general, these are the bare-bones type of criteria that legally defines cruelty.

I agree. If you see an animal being abused or in a dangerous situation the it's a moral responsibilty to act. But instead of voicing your opinion on closed ears just call animal control. If it's really that bad they will be fined until they fix the problem. But for a dog who seems happy and generally healthy, you should not butt into there medical history. It's not your place unless they specifically ask for advice 🙂

I agree. If the friend is so neglectful and oblivious, you telling them so probably won't make a difference, and might just go ahead and sever your friendship (which may be good or bad). Anyone is capable of understanding and inferring that a dog with mats and goo coming out of places that incessantly scratches and it's ears smell like a loaf of bread, is probably quite unhealthy and also really uncomfortable. It doesn't take a card-carrying genius, or particularly someone who knows a lot about animals to grasp that concept. I have encountered people and friends whom I did not agree with the way they treated their animals, but their animals were fed, housed in some way, and they didn't beat them, so there wasn't a lot I could say. Their philosophy and moral compass on that subject just isn't the same as mine. It's painful to watch but that's life.

 

[lostbunny]

Bad fish owners make me .

are you judging me:

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjgqMQLxM3c[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Lab Rat83]

I am from an Indian Reservation where there is such an over population of unwanted or neglected animals. Most people from home think that owning a dog is tethering it outside to a dog house and feeding it almost everyday. I've always wanted to take a poll and get a percentage of homes that have at least one dog tied outside all day long for all of its life. Keep in mind that I'm from Northern New Brunswick where winter temperatures average at around -10 degrees celcius (14 degrees F for my Southern neighbors) with a wind chill that actually makes it feel like it's closer to -20 (-4 F). These are the good pet owners!

The bad ones either let there dogs run loose to the point that it becomes feral, gets hit by a car, poisoned, or just disappears. Many dog owners let their dogs have litter after litter after litter. Sometimes these puppies get drowned, sometimes they are given away on the reserve to start the cycle over again. Others tether their dogs and don't feed them. I knew one guy who had a dog tied in his back yard to an old truck. He had no contact with this dog and would throw out scraps from his porch. I want to bang my head against the wall when I go home to visit. Many of these people are very nice individuals whom I respect as citizens and many are even good friends but as pet owners, it makes me want to commit murder!

This is why if I, someday get into vet school; I'd implement an at cost spay/neuter program and try to educate people more on responsible pet ownership.

 

[bunnity]

I don't really think I could be good friends with someone who did not take good care of their animals. Animals are so important to me that I couldn't really trust someone that was not good to their animals (and by that I mean someone trying to do the right thing, not necessarily someone who knows as much as I do). That said, a lot of times people just don't know. For example, my girlfriend's dog was really fat when I met my girlfriend. My girlfriend had no idea but when I told her (nicely of course), she got a measuring cup, a new food, and the dog is now 38 pounds instead of 50. 🙂

I think you should speak up and tell your friends if there is something they can change. Just like with a client though, if you act like a jerk you will get nowhere so you have to approach it right. And of course if there is actual legal abuse by a friend, that should be reported.

 

[Emiloo4]

I usually approach the situation by offering my advice and then leaving it at that. If they seem interested and ask more questions I am always willing to offer more, but I try not to shove it on people because it usually makes them more stubborn about it. Silly pride!

 

[Bearby]

The worst I've seen was a matted, flea allergic and flea covered (no meds) dog with yellow discharge in both eyes and nasty terribly infected ears. She roams the back yard of a house in Pasadena and gets washed and shaved once a year in the spring. I don't think they've taken her to the vet in the last 5 years or more.

That is considered neglect in the eyes of the law...the purulent discharge from the eyes and infected ears at least.

I used to just try to educate my friends, but I'm starting to get frustrated. I told one friend the other day that "This is my profession. What you do with your animal is your choice, but in my opinion, if you aren't willing to provide veterinary care then you shouldn't have an animal."

She actually started to listen because she just didn't realize how important puppy vaccines are or how deadly heartworms are, especially here in the South.

 

[sumstorm]

That is considered neglect in the eyes of the law...the purulent discharge from the eyes and infected ears at least.

Completly depends on where you are. If you reported that as neglect in the county my husband resides at in SC, you would be laughed at. They would take down your info (don't accept anonymous reports) and would contact the owner and suggest that the animal should be cleaned up. Whatever the owner said (it's just a dog, it's old, it has allergies, it is too expensive, etc) would be recorded in the log, and the owner can then request your info (freedom of information act.) Heck, we have dogs that have been shot by their owners, with open wounds, that weren't considered neglected or abused. Well, actually, I'll go one worse, a sheriff if a surrounding county took a bunch of shelter dogs to the local dump, released them, and used them for target practice. Most of the dogs were shot multiple times. Do you really think reporting discharge is going to generate any actual service in that climate? I am not saying it isn't a problem, that there aren't better options or that we should turn a blind eye, I'm just reminding everyone that presuming the law is the same across jurisdictions is a quick way to find yourself on the wrong side of it.

 

[StartingoverVet]

, I'll go one worse, a sheriff if a surrounding county took a bunch of shelter dogs to the local dump, released them, and used them for target practice. Most of the dogs were shot multiple times. .

I completely agree with your point sumstorm, but I just have to state the obvious: "this story is pretty sh*&ty all around. "

 

[Lab Rat83]

OMG I had to resurrect this thread. My boyfriend's younger sister is the most irresponsible and lazy horse owner I know.......and she wants to be a vet!!!

I just got back from visiting with her 22 year old horse and I could have cried! She hasn't had a proper hoof trim in almost 2 years. Her heels are touching the ground and her toes are a good 12 inches long and resemble snowshoes more than hooves. She is covered on a thick coat of hair and her father is self diagnosing it as cushings but they aren't calling the vet. She hasn't been on a proper deworming schedule for as long as I've known the horse (5.5 years). She's obviously is over loaded by parasites just by looking at her. Her stall is cleaned once a week if she's lucky. There is just so many things she is doing wrong and no matter how much you try to reason with her and her father, they're going to do it their way! I've had soooo many conversations with her about worming and hoof trimming and cleaning out her d*mn stall. She's an awesome dog owner but lacks the common sense and work ethic required to care for a horse. I've been after her for A YEAR to get that poor horse's feet trimmed. What does she do? She trims them herself! Without proper instruction from anyone! (that was a year ago and they haven't been touched by anyone since). She just had to read stuff online and she was good to go! :eye roll:

Sad thing is is they do know better. My boyfriend's brother and sister-in-law are both vets and tried and tried setting them straight. They ignore any advice or comments.

The sad thing is is that I can see her (little sister) getting into vet school because she is very personable and her marks are good and she has the vet experience and extra curriculars. Just so long as they don't ask her during an interview what are some routine care items for horses or visit her run down shack of a barn! She really has no clue!

I refrained from ranting about this in the past incase she were to stumble upon it. But I kind of hope she does. She needs to see that this lack of horse care is unacceptable!

 

[Psittacidae]

are you judging me:

[YOUTUBE]QjgqMQLxM3c[/YOUTUBE]

I know I'm a day late and a dollar short, but this is hysterical!!!

What about bad owners when it comes to housing/feed/care etc.?
I know more people who use improper housing and food for pocket pets. Bad fish owners make me .

I can so relate. As a self proclaimed "bird person", I go crazy when I see people with unclipped birds leaving windows open like its no big deal. Or feeding their feathered friends nothing but sunflower seeds and wondering why they're obese. Or leaving them in a cage with no toys or entertainment and wondering why they scream 24 hours a day. GRRRR! 😡

 

[abbercadaver]

Can I count my mom?

My horse (she controls him monetarily, but he was 'mine' when we bought him) recently began limping on a hind leg. She just got him some bute. That's cool. I dunno anything about LA medicine, as all my 'experience' has been at a SA clinic. My bosses have been as helpful as they could be, but let's face it, when someone goes into SA medicine, they pretty much just delete LA medicine info from their brains. No longer needed.

Mom calls our LA vet, his ASSISTANT says it sounds like arthritis, give bute and see if it improves. So she does. And it does. Yay Spirit! But then a week later it returns. Only worse. She tries the same regimen. Tells me about it. I say that's fine if it helped before, but since it came back (and worse), to call the vet out to see him. She says she will if it doesn't get better. *sigh* Ok. So it gets better. BUT, guess what? A week later it's back again. I go to their place to watch him walk. My dad's a physician, so he knows it looks bad. Now he's showing neurological signs. General confusion, not knowing which stall was his (he's lived in the same place for the last 12 years), inability to negotiate hills, dragging the leg now, switching legs between instances...

So I tell her..."Mom, get the vet out to see him. This is NOT arthritis." I show it to an associate vet who did LA years ago....she says she's shabby on what it COULD be, but there is no way that's arthritis.

This makes me SO frustrated. He's MY horse, but I have no say in his veterinary care since she's the owner. 🙁

I told her to get the vet out there ASAP. Her response? If I do and he can't be treated/is to expensive to treat, I'll just put him down. Fine, mom! Fine. Just don't make my horse suffer needlessly, ok?

 

[bunnity]

Can't you just call the vet to look at the horse?

 

[abbercadaver]

I could, but she'd turn him away, I'm sure. She doesn't want to spend the money.

 

[Lab Rat83]

I can, but I can't afford the vet bill. My own horse is due to have his vaccines and teeth done. Besides, that's not the point.

Everyone (me, my bf, his brother, his brother's wife) has tried to educate them on better horse keeping practices and they just don't care. We are all fed up. I may get a farrier in myself though. His sister keeps "meaning to call" but that was a year ago.

 

[Lab Rat83]

Oh the vets (brother and sister in law) live on the other side of the country.

 

[Psittacidae]

Can I count my mom?

My horse (she controls him monetarily, but he was 'mine' when we bought him) recently began limping on a hind leg. She just got him some bute. That's cool. I dunno anything about LA medicine, as all my 'experience' has been at a SA clinic. My bosses have been as helpful as they could be, but let's face it, when someone goes into SA medicine, they pretty much just delete LA medicine info from their brains. No longer needed.

Mom calls our LA vet, his ASSISTANT says it sounds like arthritis, give bute and see if it improves. So she does. And it does. Yay Spirit! But then a week later it returns. Only worse. She tries the same regimen. Tells me about it. I say that's fine if it helped before, but since it came back (and worse), to call the vet out to see him. She says she will if it doesn't get better. *sigh* Ok. So it gets better. BUT, guess what? A week later it's back again. I go to their place to watch him walk. My dad's a physician, so he knows it looks bad. Now he's showing neurological signs. General confusion, not knowing which stall was his (he's lived in the same place for the last 12 years), inability to negotiate hills, dragging the leg now, switching legs between instances...

So I tell her..."Mom, get the vet out to see him. This is NOT arthritis." I show it to an associate vet who did LA years ago....she says she's shabby on what it COULD be, but there is no way that's arthritis.

This makes me SO frustrated. He's MY horse, but I have no say in his veterinary care since she's the owner. 🙁

I told her to get the vet out there ASAP. Her response? If I do and he can't be treated/is to expensive to treat, I'll just put him down. Fine, mom! Fine. Just don't make my horse suffer needlessly, ok?

I'm so sorry Abber, that's terrible. I don't even know what to say other than to send you a virtual hug. 🙁 I hope that she makes a responible choice to get him seen by a vet.

 

[bunnity]

Oh the vets (brother and sister in law) live on the other side of the country.

Sorry I was talking to abber who stated that it was her own horse... not you 😛

 

[abbercadaver]

Sorry I was talking to abber who stated that it was her own horse... not you 😛

Yeah...like I said, he was 'mine' as far as she was concerned, but we bought him when I was like 12. So I really have no legal say. If the vet showed up, she could legitimately turn him away since it was not she who made the appointment, nor did she want one, and she is on the 'paperwork' as owner. 🙁

 

[abbercadaver]

I'm so sorry Abber, that's terrible. I don't even know what to say other than to send you a virtual hug. 🙁 I hope that she makes a responible choice to get him seen by a vet.

And thanks. 🙂 I feel really helpless being hours away from my sweet boy as he suffers. It's an awful feeling.

 

[bunnity]

Yeah...like I said, he was 'mine' as far as she was concerned, but we bought him when I was like 12. So I really have no legal say. If the vet showed up, she could legitimately turn him away since it was not she who made the appointment, nor did she want one, and she is on the 'paperwork' as owner. 🙁

Gotcha. Would she turn away the vet if you paid for it? Does she just not realize that the horse is really sick?

 

[abbercadaver]

Gotcha. Would she turn away the vet if you paid for it? Does she just not realize that the horse is really sick?

Like I said, the vet's assistant (without speaking to the vet) just said it sounded like arthritis, and then, to seal the deal, the farrier came out to trim their feet and said "he's just getting old."

NAILS IN MY COFFIN, guys. Or in Spirit's coffin. 😡

I'm going to call their vet Monday. See if he'll just go out for an exam and call me with whatever he finds (and to send the bill). Hopefully she is home when he comes and doesn't turn him away. Yeck.

 

[orcagirl]

I've got a second cousin (at least I think that's how we're related) who insists on breeding Great Danes. I absolutely hate it because I know she doesn't know what she's doing (she asked on fb if she could get IV fluids OTC because her dog gets overheated frequently). I also have friends who don't spay or neuter because they don't think about it. And then they let their cat outside and she's constantly pregnant and her kittens die. It bothers me so so so much. But I know if I were to really say something about it they wouldn't listen.

Also when people take young puppies (younger than could have been vaccinated) out to public places and let them walk around, sometimes without a leash. Parvo's rampant in AZ and I don't see how these people are so uneducated about their animal. The breeders (reputable or not) should inform them of those risks.

I actually have a question regarding this. One of my neighbors has a cat that sits in the window and I've noticed it's almost completely hairless on the underside of it's body and it seems to be losing more hair. I'm worried that the cat probably has extreme allergies. Should I say anything? I've never talked to them before, but maybe I could leave a note of my concern on their door? Or should I just let it go?

 

[nyanko]

I actually have a question regarding this. One of my neighbors has a cat that sits in the window and I've noticed it's almost completely hairless on the underside of it's body and it seems to be losing more hair. I'm worried that the cat probably has extreme allergies. Should I say anything? I've never talked to them before, but maybe I could leave a note of my concern on their door? Or should I just let it go?

This can actually be a really tough thing to manage. I'd hate for someone to think I'm a bad pet owner because one of my cats tends to overgroom in some areas when I'm stressed out (yes you read that right - it's always when I have something stressful going on that he starts up again). I might be a little put out if an acquaintance or neighbor mentioned it to me - we've tried elimination diets, he's on flea control even though he doesn't go outside, all bloodwork within normal limits...and he still does it every once in awhile. He doesn't act particularly itchy, either. I'd let that one go tbh.

 

[bunnity]

Like I said, the vet's assistant (without speaking to the vet) just said it sounded like arthritis, and then, to seal the deal, the farrier came out to trim their feet and said "he's just getting old."

NAILS IN MY COFFIN, guys. Or in Spirit's coffin. 😡

I'm going to call their vet Monday. See if he'll just go out for an exam and call me with whatever he finds (and to send the bill). Hopefully she is home when he comes and doesn't turn him away. Yeck.

Sounds like a good plan - good luck

 

[bigkittinteef]

I'm so sorry Abber. I hope things work out for you and Spirit. :hugs:

 

[catlady816]

My boyfriend is in a fraternity and they decided to get a kitten, cute and all, but no frat boys is taking a kitten to the vet. In this situation (and one other) I've gently reminded people that if you don't get your pets checked for worms they can give them to you. People may not want to spend money on their pets, but they will if it affects them. Once they get them to a vet for a fecal test, the vets usually manage to guilt them into vaccines too 🙂

 

[orcagirl]

This can actually be a really tough thing to manage. I'd hate for someone to think I'm a bad pet owner because one of my cats tends to overgroom in some areas when I'm stressed out (yes you read that right - it's always when I have something stressful going on that he starts up again). I might be a little put out if an acquaintance or neighbor mentioned it to me - we've tried elimination diets, he's on flea control even though he doesn't go outside, all bloodwork within normal limits...and he still does it every once in awhile. He doesn't act particularly itchy, either. I'd let that one go tbh.

Thanks for the input. I wasn't really thinking about saying anything, but I was just curious as to if anyone else would.

 

[anotherbusybee]

To be honest, threads like these make me cringe for all the wrong reasons. My family didn't come from the best circumstances, and we couldn't provide for our pets the way I wanted them to. Did I "know better"? Of course. I read voraciously, I was mature, and I knew that our pets could definitely have benefited from regular dentals, higher quality diets, etc. But seeing that my family was trying to support us on low-middle income wages and seeing that WE relied on government health-care-programs, could I really complain?? (And, before someone uses the: "Well, if you can't take care of your own family, you shouldn't have a pet" logic...in my opinion, it is a loose straw man argument, at best.) Our pets received plentiful food, they had comfortable housing, and they had no immediate health care issues. And, quite honestly, I was raised in a non-Western household where, for example, a dog's mild dermatitis paled in comparison to the millions of people languishing in MUCH worse conditions. It's easy to lose ourselves to passion, but the reality is that the "quality of life" Western cultures afford to animals are not even given to people in other countries. And, whenever I see judgments like this (about "good" or "bad" pet ownership), I feel obligated to ask myself: If the animal is not in immediate pain, if the animal is at a healthy weight, and if the animal has food and comfortable housing, who am I to judge or complain?

Frankly, I'd rather believe that my family (like the rest of you) are inherently good people. I would like to believe that, given the education and the option to do good, my family (like the rest of you) would choose good over deliberate harm. The issue is - many times, the option to do good is not always present or it is obfuscated by other issues. Life isn't black and white. It's many many shades of grey, purple, blue, green,... I understand the passion on here. I feel the frustrations, too. But I think it'd be much better to communicate with others, to educate, to reach out, rather than to judge them on an online forum. I know this will incite negative responses, but, hey, this is real life.

 

[StartingoverVet]

To be honest, threads like these make me cringe for all the wrong reasons. My family didn't come from the best circumstances, and we couldn't provide for our pets the way I wanted them to. Did I "know better"? Of course. I read voraciously, I was mature, and I knew that our pets could definitely have benefited from regular dentals, higher quality diets, etc. But seeing that my family was trying to support us on low-middle income wages and seeing that WE relied on government health-care-programs, could I really complain?? (And, before someone uses the: "Well, if you can't take care of your own family, you shouldn't have a pet" logic...in my opinion, it is a loose straw man argument, at best.) Our pets received plentiful food, they had comfortable housing, and they had no immediate health care issues. And, quite honestly, I was raised in a non-Western household where, for example, a dog's mild dermatitis paled in comparison to the millions of people languishing in MUCH worse conditions. It's easy to lose ourselves to passion, but the reality is that the "quality of life" Western cultures afford to animals are not even given to people in other countries. And, whenever I see judgments like this (about "good" or "bad" pet ownership), I feel obligated to ask myself: If the animal is not in immediate pain, if the animal is at a healthy weight, and if the animal has food and comfortable housing, who am I to judge or complain?

Frankly, I'd rather believe that my family (like the rest of you) are inherently good people. I would like to believe that, given the education and the option to do good, my family (like the rest of you) would choose good over deliberate harm. The issue is - many times, the option to do good is not always present or it is obfuscated by other issues. Life isn't black and white. It's many many shades of grey, purple, blue, green,... I understand the passion on here. I feel the frustrations, too. But I think it'd be much better to communicate with others, to educate, to reach out, rather than to judge them on an online forum. I know this will incite negative responses, but, hey, this is real life.

I don't think you are reading carefully if you feel so defensive.

If you have read this forum, you know that almost all of us are aware that the problem of being unable to afford care is a huge issue in vet med. It is impossible to spend more than a couple of hours at any clinic and not run into this issue.

Having said that, most of these cases are not about unable, but mostly about ignorance and unwillingness to do what is right.


Just because you come from a culture where pet care may be neglected, be careful not to accept a substandard standard of care. If you are interested in being a vet, it is your ethical responsibility to consider what is best for the animal, and try to do what you can to be its advocate and try to make a difference in the improvement of their lives, as the people posting here would hope to do.

I agree, "judgement" is not helpful, but it is human nature to judge, and even then, most of the people here are looking to "communicate, educate, and reach out" to the owners in these circumstances. If anything they are simply expressing their frustrations at the inability to break through to stubborn people.

 

[Psittacidae]

Bumping this thread because I could use some advice...

My roommate/landlord (she owns the house) has an 8 year old unneutered pit. He's a sweetie, love him. Six months ago, her boyfriend moved in and brought his 1 year old unspayed female pit. Since she's moved in, things are not the same, obviously. The male barks constantly, and works himself into a frenzy. He often doesn't eat, and gets so anxious he vomits. They live loose together, never separated, and while so far their fights have only been play fights, I believe its only a matter of time before things get out of hand. Since the female has been coming into heat, life is unbearable. The barking and fighting is nonstop. As an undergrad with a full time college schedule and two jobs, I can't handle the stress, or lack of sleep. When I asked my roomie when she was planning on fixing one (or both) of them, she informed me she wanted puppies. I was flabbergasted. I tried to inform her that 1000s of pit bulls without homes are euthanized every year, and that bringing more into the world is irresponsible. I told her puppies are NOT a moneymaker, and she'll be lucky to find free homes, let alone make money on the endeavor. I told her of the health risks involved for the female, and how for someone who has NO experience with breeding, this is a bad idea! It's no use. Apparently, theres going to be puppies no matter what I say.
I want to move out...NOW. My BF and I already signed a lease starting Septmember 1st. Currently, he lives 45 minutes away from me. I am more than welcome to move in with him at any time, but that would be 45 minutes++ longer to get to school, work, etc. I already work/school over 100 hours a week. An extra 1.5 hour commute may kill me. Also, I know I'm going to be to "go to" person in my house if/when something goes wrong with the puppies. I do not want to support this! So here are my questions:

1.) Am I wrong in assuming that if this continues, and the female becomes pregnant, the barking/fighting will get worse? Or will it get better? Someone told me once she gets pregnant and gives birth, the male should calm down. Is this true? I have experience with puppies, in a veterinary setting, but never in my personal life. Will my 1,000sqft house be more unbearable to live in, or less so?

2.) Can a male and female dog have a litter and all live happily ever after in the same house? I have experience breeding rabbits (in my childhood) and I know you never leave the male, female, and kits together. Is it the same for dogs?

3.) I vehemently disagree with breeding these two dogs, from a moral standpoint. Am I blowing this out of proportion by moving out because I refuse to support this endeavor?I'd be moving, just to move AGAIN in 3 months. Am I insane? Assuming most on here who understand the issues with pit bull overpopulation today will have a different outlook than my roommate, what would you do? Stay or go?

Thank you for listening, and any advice/info is very much appreciated. Thank you!!

 

[bunnity]

I don't know much about the breeding aspect but I think if there's any way you can stay for a little and keep talking to the roommate or her boyfriend that it could really help the dogs.

I think you're totally right about having them together unsupervised... I don't think leaving two dogs alone unsupervised is a good idea, especially dogs that are already tense with each other, especially terrier breeds (tend to have shorter "fuses" with other animals). The dogs should be separated for their own safety and of course so they don't make more babies.

If there is any way you can sit her down and kindly repeat your very valid concerns, I think that would be helpful. Some people just need to hear it a few times. Check out PBRC online; they have great articles on "So you want to breed your dog?" and on multi-dog households. Maybe you can present her with some printed articles about the costs associated with breeding, and some statistics and stories about pit bull euthanasia in shelters. Explain that even if she finds homes for these puppies, that will be another set of people that won't adopt from a shelter and another set of pit bulls that will die. (Side note: I do think there are times and places for breeding but this is not one of them).

If cost is an issue there are tons of low cost or free pit bull spay/neuter programs out there. Do you think she would allow you to get one of the dogs fixed if you made the appointment and everything?

Good luck, this totally sucks and I hope your roommate comes to her senses. Let me know if you can't find the "So you want to breed" article and I'll dig it up. It's very convincing I think.

 

[Abnerrs]

My experience is that the male may calm down for a while, but as soon as she goes into heat again he will get crazy again. I have also seen male dogs get aggressive/possessive when a female is pregnant. My understanding is it's just hormones/pheromones. Almost all of my experience though has had the parents and offspring living together just fine. There were a couple of outliers but not many. But I did JUST do a project on the beneficial side-effects of neutering and females that are spayed AFTER having litters are 25x more likely to develop mammary tumors.

Again this is all my experience so it is by no means definitive. If it were me though, even though it pisses me off, I would stay since it is a short amount of time. Moving sucks and you don't need the added stress of extra commute time.

 

[Minnerbelle]

I am beyond infuriated right now. So a lil while ago, some childhood classmate of mine started chatting with me on fb, because he was bored on night duty with nothing to do, and i seem to be the only one consistently on at odd hours of the night (more like, he would b**** at me about how he works sooooooo much while taking up my precious cramming time).

Anyhoo, he told me that he and his fiance wanted to get a dog and asked for what breed was best and where he should get one. One of those time sucks. Gave him a spiel on how to take the time and keep visiting the shelters around him until the right dog is up for adoption, or go to a reputable rescue or breeder, along with questions to ask and whatnot.

Fastforward a couple months. He got a medium sized dog, all happy, so I was like congrats. Fastforward another month. He tells me the dog bit him viciously unprovoked. He brought dog to vet who muzzled him (dog went nuts with muzzle) and gave him the option to euthanize or see a behaviorist. He complained to me that the behaviorist is super expensive for an initial consult. And so I explained what a big deal this really was, and that yeah, if they're going to try to work with an aggressive animal it's not even just a matter of a few hundred bucks for the consult. It's going to take a ton more commitment than that (money, time, effort). I also explained all the ramifications of owning an aggressive dog. I explained that I wasn't there and I'm not a behaviorist so I really can't say what's wrong or what needs to be done... and that if they're going to work with the dog they really need a reputable behaviorist who works with aggression. That as much as it sucks, unless they're willing/able to do what it really takes, euthanasia is a very valid option especially for a dog they just adopted. And I suggested they call the shelter/rescue he got the dog from because I mean, adopting out an aggressive animal is a big deal. Many shelters (esp in the area he's from) will probably at least provide that first behavioral consult or pay for it, if that's what they wanted to pursue.

THEN it comes out that no... dog didn't come from the shelter. He paid $350 rehoming fee on craigslist for this dog who has been in 3 homes prior. The dog's only 2 years old. So I went 😱. Told him rehoming him again was absolutely out of the question. That was not okay. I was getting nauseated with this long ass conversation, so I told him he didn't need to make a decision this second, but he really only has 2 options. But regardless, dog should be 100% under his control at all times, and never be allowed to go near children or public at large. He tells me that his obedience class is supposed to start tomorrow, so he's going to see what happens. I tell him that's a bad idea and that really, this isn't an "obedience" issue. He also tells me the dog is dog aggressive. I tell him to call up the obedience school and explain the aggression (people and dog), and see if they can provide a one-on-one session if he really wants to start obedience training... not the group session he was going to. That it's up to them if they want to take on an aggressive animal. I knew it was in one ear and out the other. At this point, I was like, whatever... good luck with whatever you choose.

Fastforward another month. He tells me the dog's on his "4th session" and that he's doing well. That the dog is starting to see him as the alpha of the house. I knew where this was headed, and really didn't want to go there. So I quickly just said, I hope you the best of luck. Bye. That was like last week.

So today, I see on fb that he was bit again. That post was of course followed up by comments from stupid friends of his that said crap like how he should bite the dog on the muzzle to assert his dominance because that's what wolves do. A couple hours later, he posted that he rehomed this dog to a "stay-at-home MOM" who'll have more time for him!!!!!!!!! I sincerely hope he means "mom" as in the dog's mom. Not a child's mom. Was he really that stupid that he didn't understand when both his vet and I explained why that dog should never be rehomed again??? Oh... and did I mention this dude is a cop?

 

[krist]

I am beyond infuriated right now. So a lil while ago, some childhood classmate of mine started chatting with me on fb, because he was bored on night duty with nothing to do, and i seem to be the only one consistently on at odd hours of the night (more like, he would b**** at me about how he works sooooooo much while taking up my precious cramming time).

Anyhoo, he told me that he and his fiance wanted to get a dog and asked for what breed was best and where he should get one. One of those time sucks. Gave him a spiel on how to take the time and keep visiting the shelters around him until the right dog is up for adoption, or go to a reputable rescue or breeder, along with questions to ask and whatnot.

Fastforward a couple months. He got a medium sized dog, all happy, so I was like congrats. Fastforward another month. He tells me the dog bit him viciously unprovoked. He brought dog to vet who muzzled him (dog went nuts with muzzle) and gave him the option to euthanize or see a behaviorist. He complained to me that the behaviorist is super expensive for an initial consult. And so I explained what a big deal this really was, and that yeah, if they're going to try to work with an aggressive animal it's not even just a matter of a few hundred bucks for the consult. It's going to take a ton more commitment than that (money, time, effort). I also explained all the ramifications of owning an aggressive dog. I explained that I wasn't there and I'm not a behaviorist so I really can't say what's wrong or what needs to be done... and that if they're going to work with the dog they really need a reputable behaviorist who works with aggression. That as much as it sucks, unless they're willing/able to do what it really takes, euthanasia is a very valid option especially for a dog they just adopted. And I suggested they call the shelter/rescue he got the dog from because I mean, adopting out an aggressive animal is a big deal. Many shelters (esp in the area he's from) will probably at least provide that first behavioral consult or pay for it, if that's what they wanted to pursue.

THEN it comes out that no... dog didn't come from the shelter. He paid $350 rehoming fee on craigslist for this dog who has been in 3 homes prior. The dog's only 2 years old. So I went 😱. Told him rehoming him again was absolutely out of the question. That was not okay. I was getting nauseated with this long ass conversation, so I told him he didn't need to make a decision this second, but he really only has 2 options. But regardless, dog should be 100% under his control at all times, and never be allowed to go near children or public at large. He tells me that his obedience class is supposed to start tomorrow, so he's going to see what happens. I tell him that's a bad idea and that really, this isn't an "obedience" issue. He also tells me the dog is dog aggressive. I tell him to call up the obedience school and explain the aggression (people and dog), and see if they can provide a one-on-one session if he really wants to start obedience training... not the group session he was going to. That it's up to them if they want to take on an aggressive animal. I knew it was in one ear and out the other. At this point, I was like, whatever... good luck with whatever you choose.

Fastforward another month. He tells me the dog's on his "4th session" and that he's doing well. That the dog is starting to see him as the alpha of the house. I knew where this was headed, and really didn't want to go there. So I quickly just said, I hope you the best of luck. Bye. That was like last week.

So today, I see on fb that he was bit again. That post was of course followed up by comments from stupid friends of his that said crap like how he should bite the dog on the muzzle to assert his dominance because that's what wolves do. A couple hours later, he posted that he rehomed this dog to a "stay-at-home MOM" who'll have more time for him!!!!!!!!! I sincerely hope he means "mom" as in the dog's mom. Not a child's mom. Was he really that stupid that he didn't understand when both his vet and I explained why that dog should never be rehomed again??? Oh... and did I mention this dude is a cop?

😱

Is all I can say...between these stories and my last couple days at work, I sometimes wonder why I'm going into this field

 

[August West]

😱

Is all I can say...between these stories and my last couple days at work, I sometimes wonder why I'm going into this field

Clearly, the animals need us. 😳

 

[bigkittinteef]

It's so scary how idiotic some pet owners are.

 

[RadRadTerp]

(And, before someone uses the: "Well, if you can't take care of your own family, you shouldn't have a pet" logic...in my opinion, it is a loose straw man argument, at best.) Our pets received plentiful food, they had comfortable housing, and they had no immediate health care issues. And, quite honestly, I was raised in a non-Western household where, for example, a dog's mild dermatitis paled in comparison to the millions of people languishing in MUCH worse conditions. It's easy to lose ourselves to passion, but the reality is that the "quality of life" Western cultures afford to animals are not even given to people in other countries.

My family also came from some pretty poor countries, but guess what, we moved to America. Different standards in different places and if you can't accept the differences, maybe you shouldn't have moved in the first place. I hate to sound like an "America- F%$# Yeah" type of dude (because I'm not actually that conservative), but I don't want other people on here to think that all immigrants support this apologist, morally relativistic attitude. We're not even talking about what's going on in other countries, either, so it is you who is making the "straw man" argument when you try to knock down a position that no one is even positing.

 

[bigkittinteef]

My family also came from some pretty poor countries, but guess what, we moved to America. Different standards in different places and if you can't accept the differences, maybe you shouldn't have moved in the first place. I hate to sound like an "America- F%$# Yeah" type of dude (because I'm not actually that conservative), but I don't want other people on here to think that all immigrants support this apologist, morally relativistic attitude. We're not even talking about what's going on in other countries, either, so it is you who is making the "straw man" argument when you try to knock down a position that no one is even positing.

👍