other graduates

[toby jones]

I'm looking at doing medicine in either NZ or Aussie (as a NZ citizen).

Otago has an 'other' entry criteria that doesn't require a GAMSAT score. Does anybody know whether any other uni in Australia has a similar thing (I know Auckland does not).

NZ citizens should be able to use the loans and allowances scheme in NZ for a living allowance while training. What do people live off in Australia? Is there a similar scheme for citizens?

Otherwise... With a rural bond... How politic / feasible is it to break the bond in the 4th (placement) year and then pay the money back (gradually)?

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[greens]

Just to let you know, Auckland doesn't require the GAMSAT. They require the UMAT as they are an undergraduate program. Also, if you have a relevant 1st degree (i.e. science) then you could qualify for the graduate entry program and begin in 2nd year. I'm also pretty sure there is no way you could get out of the bonding schemes once accepted (Hence why they are called bonding schemes).
Cheers,
Jen

 

[toby jones]

I'm a graduate student rather than an undergraduate student so the UMAT doesn't apply to me. The GAMSAT applies to me for any university in Australasia except Otago (their 'Other graduate' criteria) - to the best of my knowledge. But this latter point is what I'm trying to find out.

> I'm also pretty sure there is no way you could get out of the bonding schemes once accepted (Hence why they are called bonding schemes).

My understanding was that the bonding scheme was a contract for them to give you x in exchange for your doing y. You could thus break the bond but you need to repay them for y. E.g., In the military you can be trained to be a chef or a pilot or whatever and they pay for your training but bond you to working for them in that capacity for 8 years. You can break the bond (and people have certainly done so), but you need to make arrangements to pay back the cost of your training. I was wondering whether the rural bond for medicine might work like that and if so whether it was feasible to break the bond in the 4th year (so not have a rural placement).

Does anybody know of anyone who has done that for medicine? Or whether it is dis-analogous to the military case (e.g., by being generally frowned upon etc).

 

[jaketheory]

I'm a graduate student rather than an undergraduate student so the UMAT doesn't apply to me. The GAMSAT applies to me for any university in Australasia except Otago (their 'Other graduate' criteria) - to the best of my knowledge. But this latter point is what I'm trying to find out.

> I'm also pretty sure there is no way you could get out of the bonding schemes once accepted (Hence why they are called bonding schemes).

My understanding was that the bonding scheme was a contract for them to give you x in exchange for your doing y. You could thus break the bond but you need to repay them for y. E.g., In the military you can be trained to be a chef or a pilot or whatever and they pay for your training but bond you to working for them in that capacity for 8 years. You can break the bond (and people have certainly done so), but you need to make arrangements to pay back the cost of your training. I was wondering whether the rural bond for medicine might work like that and if so whether it was feasible to break the bond in the 4th year (so not have a rural placement).

Does anybody know of anyone who has done that for medicine? Or whether it is dis-analogous to the military case (e.g., by being generally frowned upon etc).

your having a degree does not dictate what test you need to take in order to study medicine. what does dictate this is the school at which you wish to study. as the other poster mentioned, auckland has a graduate entry scheme; however, it is an undergraduate course and as such requires the UMAT. the grad entry stream simply makes it possible to start at year 2 rather than year 1.

there are numerous aussie undergrad entry medical schools which allow non-standard applicants (e.g. graduates) admission. none of the 5 year courses will offer advanced standing for prior studies, but 6 year courses may. all require the UMAT except James Cook Uni (and possibly Bond). all the graduate entry courses require GAMSAT.

i'm not familiar with a bonding scheme that will allow a NZ'er to study in Aus. Aus has bonded medical places but I believe you must be an Aus citizen or permanent resident. there are 2 distinct types of bonded places: one that offers a scholarship and one that does not. for the bonded place offering the scholarship, in breaching the agreement one will have to repay the scholarship and wait 12 years before being able to receive a medicare provider number (which is required to bill for private services). for non-scholarship places, in breaching the contract one will have to repay the commonwealth's contribution to the student's tuition cost (currently around 16,000AUD/year), in effect giving the breacher a full-fee place with a low interest loan (the government paid most of your full-fee cost up-front and you have to repay it).

 

[toby jones]

Thanks for your reply. I am a permanent resident of Australia and I suppose I could apply for citizenship. I will look into Bond University. Sounds like the bonded places really do expect you to do the bond and there are harsh penalties for defecting (unlike the NZ military!) I just recently learned that the UMAT applies to graduates just so long as they aren't graduates of medicine and that the GAMSAT only applies to graduates of medicine. For some strange reason I thought that the UMAT was for undergrads (of all degrees) and the GAMSAT was for graduates (of all degrees) and thus I was very reluctant to take the GAMSAT since I obviously don't have the background science lol.

I will look into the UMAT and alternative options for study (including the possibility of citizenship) should my first choice fall through. Thanks.

 

[jaketheory]

Thanks for your reply. I am a permanent resident of Australia and I suppose I could apply for citizenship. I will look into Bond University. Sounds like the bonded places really do expect you to do the bond and there are harsh penalties for defecting (unlike the NZ military!) I just recently learned that the UMAT applies to graduates just so long as they aren't graduates of medicine and that the GAMSAT only applies to graduates of medicine. For some strange reason I thought that the UMAT was for undergrads (of all degrees) and the GAMSAT was for graduates (of all degrees) and thus I was very reluctant to take the GAMSAT since I obviously don't have the background science lol.

I will look into the UMAT and alternative options for study (including the possibility of citizenship) should my first choice fall through. Thanks.

toby, you dont need citizenship so long as you have australian permanent residency. the only advantage having citizenship will afford you is not having to pay fees up-front (or getting a 20% discount if you do pay upfront) as citizens can defer their fee payments through HECS-HELP debt.

Bond Uni is private and thus fees are not subsidized by the Australian government. the full medical course there will cost you 274,000AUD in uni fees alone. It is an undergrad course but also admits graduates. UMAT is required for undergrad entry but graduates are not required to sit UMAT.

i question if you understand GAMSAT and UMAT. UMAT is for undergraduate entry medical courses. that is those that accepts student with no previous university studies, high school leavers. some undergraduate entry courses will admit graduates, but most graduates would be looking to do graduate-entry medicine as they are shorter (undergrad courses are 5-6 years and grad courses are mostly 4 years). most applicants sittin UMAT are still in high school when they sit the exam. a graduate of medicine would not sit UMAT because UMAT is for admission to a medical course and a graduate of medicine has already completed a medical course.

On the other hand GAMSAT is for gaduate entry medical courses. no aussie graduate entry med course requires a specific undergrad degree or major. you can sit the GAMSAT no matter what you have studied however, it presumes biology and chemistry through first year university level and physics through year 12 level. many applicants that have not studied these at high school or university sit gamsat and get admitted to grad entry med courses. it obviously can be done, but you will have to do some studying to become proficient in these subjects. similar to UMAT, a graduate of medicine would not sit GAMSAT as GAMSAT is for admission to a medical course and a graduate of medicine has already completed a medical course.

 

[toby jones]

Thanks for your explanation - that really does help. Fingers crossed for my first choice. Otherwise... I'll need to revisit this stuff and figure plan B.