Our New Attorney General

[futurehealer117]

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Hello All,

I certainly hope this will not degrade into flaming by both sides or be seen as an elementary, lowbrow post; but as future leaders of Health Care it is important to discuss.

As of February 25 U.S. Attorney General has said that the D.E.A. will end raids on providers of Medical Marijuana, on the basis that it unfairly burdens the chronically ill, interfers with state law and impedes personal choice and freedom.

Given this and a trend that seems to be moving ever closer to overall legalization of Medical Marijuana; as well as the fact that the American College of Physicians and former Attorney General Dr. Joycelyn Elders have voiced support for Marijuana for AIDS, Chronic Wasting, glaucoma and Chemotherapy Patients. Would You Perscribe It For Your Patients?

To be honest, although I am not a marijuana user I certainly do have a vested interest in this becoming legal. Since I was 12 my father has suffered intense deterieration of his knee joints, which has also led to severe damage in his lower back. Despite a massive amount of treatment: two total knee replacements, 4 other knee surgeries, steriod injections, O.M.T treatments, physical therapy, accupuncture and many more (all before the age of 38 mind you) he still suffers from intense chronic pain, the inability to bend his knees or have full range of motion along his bodies axis. As a result, his pain Doctor has put him on a level of medication that is simply frightening: high doses of Morphine, Oxycontin, Fentanol, muscle relaxants; such a staggaring amount that although he follows his perscriptions to the last dot, he has been taken to the E.R. no less than 5 times due to bad drug interactions. Essentially my siblings and I are watching our father poison himself to death, and it is completly, absolutly, irrevocably 100% LEGAL, PAID FOR BY INSURANCE NO LESS.

So given this situation, the many like it and the many worse: Is it really going to lead to the end of society as we know it if these people smoke a joint, which has never killed a single person? Or is it so much more holy to let them destroy themselves so long as the drugs say Pfizer on the box?

So, Would You?

 

[Dissected]

Yea...Ive never really understood why alcohol is legal and marijuana is not. Especially since there is potential for medicinal treatment. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. You can't really overdose on weed, and its effects are not any more harmful or debilitating than booze. You'd crash and burn on a couch before you had enough THC to be poisonous 😳. overdoses are unbelievably rare.

 

[pyropig]

Man you've got some touchy stuff going in that post lol. I may have gotten confused somewhere in the middle but medical marijuana would be used as a pain management medication, like morphine and fentanyl,it has no healing properties whatsoever. It is also quite contendable that marijuana has never killed anyone, be it directly or indirectly, people do stupid things on mind altering substances.
The biggest problem with marijuana is he'd exist in a constantly stoned state, and pain is not eliminated like some wonder drug but it most certainly helps. I do however agree on it being legalized for medicinal purposes, It provides a treatment alternative for people in particularily undesireable circumstances, pertaining to their health. Now the other problem that is presented is insurance paying for it. Insurance is not going to accept a claim for the weed grown by Jason on 4th st. The only way insurance will pay for it is if there is a certain guarantee of purity, and that would mean pfizer would get to start growing marijuana and selling it for exorbitantly high prices because they stuck their name on it. And for anyone who has ever worked in pharmacy, the last hurdle is actually getting an insurance company to put it on their formulary, can someone say Prior Auth.? lol

 

[Apterous]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is not one of the purposes of our medical profession is to improve the quality of life for those around us? I feel that using marijuana to improve the lives of the terminal ill or to patients with chronic pain is the least that we should allow.

Just a little background for those of you who have not done much research into THC. There has never been a documented case of overdose in the past 5 thousand years of use. When people use too much they tend to just fall asleep. The reason Marijuana has been called a "gateway" drug stems from the fact that people must get it illegally resulting in them being introduced to other drugs. Lastly I want everyone to know that I am not saying we should all go out and smoke a joint, but rather implement this drug as another tool we have to improve the quality of life for the people around us.👍

 

[binko]

I don't thing marijuana would do anything much for knee pain.

 

[saylorsdad]

the greatest argument against m.j. should be the fact that while it's effects are similiar to alchol it has the potential to effect others "a contact high". Alchol has no such side effect on others.

 

[futurehealer117]

the greatest argument against m.j. should be the fact that while it's effects are similiar to alchol it has the potential to effect others "a contact high". Alchol has no such side effect on others.

Alcohol has no effect upon others except for the 13,000 individuals killed per year in alcohol related traffic accidents. As I understand it receiving a contact high is notoriously difficult, especially since you can just get out of the room.🙄 Even still the point of this argument is to point out that under the managed care of a Physician this can be a useful addition to healthcare and pain managment; not advocating some 16 year old blowing smoke into the babies face.

 

[Pony46]

Alcohol has no effect upon others except for the 13,000 individuals killed per year in alcohol related traffic accidents. As I understand it receiving a contact high is notoriously difficult, especially since you can just get out of the room.🙄 Even still the point of this argument is to point out that under the managed care of a Physician this can be a useful addition to healthcare and pain managment; not advocating some 16 year old blowing smoke into the babies face.

Futurehealer-
it must be very hard to watch someone you care about go through that much pain and have the system fail them.

While this is obvious I wanted to say it to you - and not to beat a dead horse but that amount of passion for finding more ways to help people whom the system has failed will aid you in your dream of becoming a doctor and possibly if you can channel it rationally the system of medicine.

 

[Dissected]

the greatest argument against m.j. should be the fact that while it's effects are similiar to alchol it has the potential to effect others "a contact high". Alchol has no such side effect on others.

A contact high? thats a stretch to be a good argument against m.j., even if you are in an enclosed living room you probably aren't going to feel anything. you'd have to do some serious smoking out of a small space like a car or bedroom to have anything remotely mind altering happen to you. And in that case, you could just leave the car if you don't want to get high. Its not like the movies...

Second hand smoke is an issue, but why then do we allow cigarettes?

 

[slick27]

Alcohol has no effect upon others except for the 13,000 individuals killed per year in alcohol related traffic accidents. As I understand it receiving a contact high is notoriously difficult, especially since you can just get out of the room.🙄 Even still the point of this argument is to point out that under the managed care of a Physician this can be a useful addition to healthcare and pain managment; not advocating some 16 year old blowing smoke into the babies face.

DUI is more than just alcohol. Driving under the influence of anything is harmfull. I bet the OP's father can't legally drive while on all those pain meds. All they have to do is take a blood sample. They test for all kinds of drugs now a days. You can't drive high either.

 

[saylorsdad]

I never said alchol was safe to drive with, nor did I say that m.j. was safe to drive with. The argument I presented in it's simplest terms was that if you are sitting next to a person who was drinking a beer you would not get drunk or buzzed or what ever you care to call it. If you were sitting next to a person who was smoking pot the second hand smoke could cause a contact high. Yes the chances are slim, however they are very real think children/elderly.
Even in small doses m.j. has the potential to alter a person's thinking. Also go ahead and read my original post, i said nothing as to the effect of driving while drunk/high nor did I imply that using m.j. for pain managment should be outlawed. Merely that the argument against full legalization for pot should be what I posted.

 

[futurehealer117]

The point that I was trying to make was not to say that you should use any kind of substance while you are driving. Neither was it to argue about the relative likleyhood of giving grandma a contact high.😕

The post was regarding whether RESPONSIBLE ADULTS should be able to make a decision with THEIR PHYSICIAN about their own INDIVIDUAL HEALTH. It was going under the assumption that if it be governed by all the same social guidelines and laws as perscription opiates, or alcohol for that matter. And then would you as a future physician perscribe it?

 

[BabyKangaroo]

Has anyone ever seen what happens to people when they chronically smoke MJ? They all do crazy things like move to an island in the middle of the Pacific and keep it a secret. Then they breed and have this colony that only cares about daydreaming of giant manatees with wings that talk like that piece of poop from Southpark. And they constantly eat b/c they are hungry, but all end up so skinny anyways they disappear when they turn sideways, which is good b/c they take up less space that way. Then the stackable MJ smokers for life all get stored in some mother's basement and end up playing video games the rest of their lives b/c it squelches any idea of reality they lost most of a long time ago when they started smoking.

 

[schussboarder]

Has anyone ever seen what happens to people when they chronically smoke MJ? They all do crazy things like move to an island in the middle of the Pacific and keep it a secret. Then they breed and have this colony that only cares about daydreaming of giant manatees with wings that talk like that piece of poop from Southpark. And they constantly eat b/c they are hungry, but all end up so skinny anyways they disappear when they turn sideways, which is good b/c they take up less space that way. Then the stackable MJ smokers for life all get stored in some mother's basement and end up playing video games the rest of their lives b/c it squelches any idea of reality they lost most of a long time ago when they started smoking.

for some reason this post makes me want to smoke some green.

 

[saylorsdad]

funny post.
yes it has strange effects that most people don't think about and may not have good research on. every one compares it to beer which also is bad but it is an entirely different drug with different actions and long term effects.

 

[Semicolon]

Haha, now the osteo forum looks alive; awesome threads. 😀

DoktorB: I'm not sure if you've ever experienced second-hand smoke but...there used to be a bunch of guys living above me who would regularly smoke it late night. My window would be open below theirs and there would be nights when it would definitely affect me. Not to the extent that I would do something stupid but...it did something, lol.

I agree that medical marijuana should be made legal. However, we should also accept the consequences of that. There WILL be deaths due to the legalization of marijuana, but the idea is that the advantages to society will outweigh the disadvantages.

 

[engineeredout]

Haha, now the osteo forum looks alive; awesome threads. 😀

DoktorB: I'm not sure if you've ever experienced second-hand smoke but...there used to be a bunch of guys living above me who would regularly smoke it late night. My window would be open below theirs and there would be nights when it would definitely affect me. Not to the extent that I would do something stupid but...it did something, lol.

I agree that medical marijuana should be made legal. However, we should also accept the consequences of that. There WILL be deaths due to the legalization of marijuana, but the idea is that the advantages to society will outweigh the disadvantages.

Deaths due to it, really? I mean the argument here is not for legallizing it and letting everyone get stoned, but allowing physicians to perscribe (limited) amounts of it to patients. Just like if somebody goes through their oxycotin in two days, the doctor will probably get suspicious and not perscribe any more if the patient is abusing it (or giving it away). That would seem to minimize the possibility of anyone getting hurt from it.

And yeah Pre-osteo kicks Pre-allo ass.

 

[Semicolon]

Deaths due to it, really? I mean the argument here is not for legallizing it and letting everyone get stoned, but allowing physicians to perscribe (limited) amounts of it to patients. Just like if somebody goes through their oxycotin in two days, the doctor will probably get suspicious and not perscribe any more if the patient is abusing it (or giving it away). That would seem to minimize the possibility of anyone getting hurt from it.

And yeah Pre-osteo kicks Pre-allo ass.

It's naive to think that just because the law will state it's only for medical purposes that this will be the actual case. People will take advantage of it, and others will use it unwisely. Yes, it's true that many will be thwarted due to suspicions, but nothing will prevent any accidents from occurring. After all, legalizing medicinal marijuana is just one step closer to legalizing it overall.

Maybe I'm just cynical. Like I said, I think it should be legalized because of the benefit it will serve for those that need it. But like everything else, it'll be abused by those that don't.

Sorry if I sound anything like a conservative p***k. 😀

 

[Bleurberry]

Lately I've been putting on Keith Olbermann on in the background as I nod off to sleep at 8:30pm (I wake up early for work), and he had an interesting segway last night that grabbed my attention. Caveat: I was falling asleep, so I don't have the report word for word, but the jist was:
The polio vaccine researcher/discoverer himself fell into a paralyzed state for a month, in indescribable pain, and when he came through, he got up on TV and apologized to the country with tears in his eyes to not having realized that the first order of concern a physician should have is addressing the pain of a patient, that he had become too fixated on the research and ignored his patients needs and suffering.

So my bridge to this conversation is this-
Smoking marijuana has an obvious cultural stigma associated with it, for good reason - it's been outlawed since prohibition; I don't see how that has anything to do with the cannaboid receptors in the brain of my chronic pain patient. If marijuana has the best risk to benefit ratio for my patient and he/she qualifies in the larger context of his/her life and the law, I'm going to prescribe it at least temporarily to see if it has a benefit.
Remember, this doesn't mean necessarily that they're going to be smoking "blunts", it could be in pill or supository form, sublingual, whatever.
What I'm not going to do, however, is recommend they drink a fifth of whiskey to dull the pain every night, which in some social circles is acceptible. We need to look at the science, the law, and the health and well-being of our patients, and make reasonable decisions. I don't necessarily think all doctors need to begin prescribing medicinal marijuana - if a physician has a moral objection to it, there will be plenty of other doctors the patient can go to.

Please permit me to digress a moment, too- this country needs to legalize everything. We're facing a crisis that's so unbelievably scarey and disasterous, I can't really qualify it here. Mexico is a warzone, along with Afghanistan. The only thing perpetuating these two wars is drug money. You take the illicit nature out of the marketplace, and that money largely dries up. The war on minorities in this country stops, money begins being channeled almost overnight into drug addiction and rehabilitation study and treatment. People stop dying in Mexico like they are, and in Afghanistan. The Pakistan instabilitiy evens out. This isn't a liberal/conservative issue any longer, it's national and internation security.

Hello All,

I certainly hope this will not degrade into flaming by both sides or be seen as an elementary, lowbrow post; but as future leaders of Health Care it is important to discuss.

As of February 25 U.S. Attorney General has said that the D.E.A. will end raids on providers of Medical Marijuana, on the basis that it unfairly burdens the chronically ill, interfers with state law and impedes personal choice and freedom.

Given this and a trend that seems to be moving ever closer to overall legalization of Medical Marijuana; as well as the fact that the American College of Physicians and former Attorney General Dr. Joycelyn Elders have voiced support for Marijuana for AIDS, Chronic Wasting, glaucoma and Chemotherapy Patients. Would You Perscribe It For Your Patients?

To be honest, although I am not a marijuana user I certainly do have a vested interest in this becoming legal. Since I was 12 my father has suffered intense deterieration of his knee joints, which has also led to severe damage in his lower back. Despite a massive amount of treatment: two total knee replacements, 4 other knee surgeries, steriod injections, O.M.T treatments, physical therapy, accupuncture and many more (all before the age of 38 mind you) he still suffers from intense chronic pain, the inability to bend his knees or have full range of motion along his bodies axis. As a result, his pain Doctor has put him on a level of medication that is simply frightening: high doses of Morphine, Oxycontin, Fentanol, muscle relaxants; such a staggaring amount that although he follows his perscriptions to the last dot, he has been taken to the E.R. no less than 5 times due to bad drug interactions. Essentially my siblings and I are watching our father poison himself to death, and it is completly, absolutly, irrevocably 100% LEGAL, PAID FOR BY INSURANCE NO LESS.

So given this situation, the many like it and the many worse: Is it really going to lead to the end of society as we know it if these people smoke a joint, which has never killed a single person? Or is it so much more holy to let them destroy themselves so long as the drugs say Pfizer on the box?

So, Would You?

 

[spicedmanna]

If marijuana has the best risk to benefit ratio for my patient and he/she qualifies in the larger context of his/her life and the law, I'm going to prescribe it at least temporarily to see if it has a benefit.

I tend to agree w/ your line of thinking and would probably follow a similar course of action, as my patient's medical advocate. I don't think I would have any moral or ethical reservations about prescribing the drug if it were truly indicated and would, in my judgment, be beneficial for my patient. So far, marijuana is considered a schedule I drug and has been approved in the palliative treatment of some side-effects related to chemotherapy, such as nausea and vomiting that is not effectively treated w/ other meds. There is also some indication that it could be effective in treating glaucoma, but might not be the best option (1). A quick perusal of PubMed seems to indicate that it's role in the treatment of pain, specifically neuropathic pain, is still under investigation (2). Nevertheless, I do support further research on the therapeutic uses of the drug. I haven't read or heard anything on the use of marijuana on pain assocated w/ degenerative bone diseases or changes, however. Is that a new development?

 

[beachbum08]

just to give some context... the biggest pusher to make marijuana illegal was congressman williams jennings bryan. Congressman Bryan was also the prosecutor in the Scopes Monkey Trial in Tennessee, thus not only was he anti-marijuana but he was anti-evolution being taught in the schools. In his anti-marijuana campaign he played on the racist ideologies of the time be saying let's outlaw marijuana (the term that mexicans and native americans used for their herbal medicine) and he avoided the term cannabas, which was used for a more commonly accepted drug among anglo circles. Thus, the outlawing of the ganj is fundamentally a racially motivated act. anyhow, point being, the anti-evolutionist, Bryan, was a pompous orator who was coming at things from a narrow, and often inapporpriate, WASPy angle.

I lived in a county in Cali that was very pro medical marijuana. I was there when the district attorney legalized it with a prescription, when Angela McClary Raich (who was living w/ brain cancer) asked the Supreme Court to please allow the use of marijuana for medicinal purposes. the day the supreme court ruled against ms. raich, the sheriff of my county was on the local news saying, "well, that was a national ruling, in ____, it's business as usual." that has turned everything into a ntaional vs. state right debate. but one of the most interesting arguments i have seen for pro-legalization of medical marijuana was in a documentary that a professor at my school made called "Dispensing Cannabis: the california story". she went to a variety of medical co-ops, talked to patients, attorney generals, etc. and portrayed a very complex story. some of the co-ops got closed down and left all of these people without, what they considered to be, an important medicine. and the folks weren't young stoners, there were mostly older people with serious illness. the co-ops not only provided them with marijuana, but a sense of community, which seemed to also be important in their healing process. however, there are alot of people who take advantage of the prescription and just grew alot of ganja. but it is what it is. as more and more people grew the price dropped, but where i lived it was such an isolated and impoverished economy, the town depended on it.

but, really, i think they should just legalize it. the US has more people in prison than any country in the world and most of the people in jail are there for drug related crimes. rapists and murderers get put out on the street early b/c of prison overcrowding. it is a little ridiculous.

and when it comes to the ganja as medicine, it has always traditionally been a medicine, and will continue to be regarded as one. we can continue to send the cancer patients to jail that use it for nausea or just adapt to the reality at hand. but as a physician, i would not prescribe it if my state did not allow it. i support the cause, but i don't want to lose my license. but i would help lobby to legalize it.

however, i hope that people that are in the legalization movement, like NORML, etc. will act like mature professionals if they want to be taken seriously. otherwise, why would i want to professionally associate with a buck of knock-off stoners.

and smoking marijuana everyday, when you dont have cancer, in my opinion, is the same as drinking everyday. it is not healthy, unless medically needed. and even then, some medical conditions need it more than others. Chronic pain sufferers? i could see that. Nausea for cancer patients? yea. just really depressed?? um, you dont need to smoke everyday, go for a jog instead.

by the way, baby kangaroo's comment was pretty funny.... so what do you think the attorney general's stance on this is??

 

[Jamers]

It's naive to think that just because the law will state it's only for medical purposes that this will be the actual case. People will take advantage of it, and others will use it unwisely. Yes, it's true that many will be thwarted due to suspicions, but nothing will prevent any accidents from occurring. After all, legalizing medicinal marijuana is just one step closer to legalizing it overall.

Maybe I'm just cynical. Like I said, I think it should be legalized because of the benefit it will serve for those that need it. But like everything else, it'll be abused by those that don't.

Sorry if I sound anything like a conservative p***k. 😀

I don't see anything wrong with that. Hell, the government likes to use sin taxes to make some money...here is another sin to tax.

 

[ChandutheMagici]

but, really, i think they should just legalize it. the US has more people in prison than any country in the world and most of the people in jail are there for drug related crimes. rapists and murderers get put out on the street early b/c of prison overcrowding. it is a little ridiculous.

Yeah, that's a logical and sound argument. The Libertarian Party makes an argument for that. Unfortunately, it's a tough sell because often, people don't think logically. People in my life who I've tried to tell about the prison system and prohibition violence have invariably responded to my argument by saying stuff like..

"Crack is bad!"
"Do you really think it's ok for people to do Heroin!?"

Anyway, in Michigan they just approved medical marijuana. Which is funny considering Marinol (very original name) has been prescribed and schedule 3 for a while now. As if smoking it is so much worse? I'm not a doctor yet, but if it's indicated, prescribe it. If not, then don't.

 

[MossPoh]

I def. don't care too much about it either way. I think there is more of a midpoint than the two sides believe. I live in a house with people that are very very very very pro marijuana. These people honestly think it heals everything and justify it as such. Meanwhile, I've seen them when they are stoned out of their mind and they are hardly functional. My roommate will walk out of his room, walk around, stare at a wall for 5 minutes, go "Oh yeaaaaa" and then scramble an egg and walk out...with the egg still in the frying pan. I do feel it will benefit people but the amounts that would be required for many things seem ridiculous to remain functional in daily society. So, only for extreme cases would I ever consider prescribing it if it were legalized. I know far too many people that say they "need" it when they really don't...I personally don't like how it makes me feel. My mind feels foggy and I hate feeling stupid, coughing a lot, hungry and thirsty followed by throbbing lungs the next morning (excluding a vaporizer which is a little more lung friendly)

 

[dozitgetchahi]

I agree that medical marijuana should be made legal. However, we should also accept the consequences of that. There WILL be deaths due to the legalization of marijuana, but the idea is that the advantages to society will outweigh the disadvantages.

Several conclusive studies have indicated that there has never been a recorded death directly linked to overdosing on THC (aka the most active cannabinoid in marijuana). Granted, it is possible that regular smokers of marijuana might get lung cancer or heart disease from regularly inhaling pot smoke, but some preliminary studies have shown that these risks are likely lesser than with tobacco smoke.

IMHO the government's position on marijuana is pure hypocrisy. If you look at the drugs already in the DEA's Schedule II, you'll find everything from amphetamines to strong opioids like fentanyl and oxycodone to cocaine (when it's used as a local anaesthetic for certain types of surgeries). In contrast to drugs like these, marijuana is widely considered to be far less dangerous, have much less abuse potential, and have a legitimate medicinal use (namely for nausea from chemotherapy and strong, chronic pain). Despite these attributes, however, marijuana has somehow been placed in Schedule I (i.e. the class of controlled drugs with "high abuse potential" and "no legitimate medical use") along far more dangerous substances.

Plus, the most broadly used substances in medicine for strong pain are the opiates - which have strong abuse potential and many undesirable side effects (respiratory depression, constipation, mental clouding, etc). Is it really worse to be using marijuana in these situations than oxycodone or morphine?

 

[Semicolon]

Several conclusive studies have indicated that there has never been a recorded death directly linked to overdosing on THC (aka the most active cannabinoid in marijuana). Granted, it is possible that regular smokers of marijuana might get lung cancer or heart disease from regularly inhaling pot smoke, but some preliminary studies have shown that these risks are likely lesser than with tobacco smoke.

IMHO the government's position on marijuana is pure hypocrisy. If you look at the drugs already in the DEA's Schedule II, you'll find everything from amphetamines to strong opioids like fentanyl and oxycodone to cocaine (when it's used as a local anaesthetic for certain types of surgeries). In contrast to drugs like these, marijuana is widely considered to be far less dangerous, have much less abuse potential, and have a legitimate medicinal use (namely for nausea from chemotherapy and strong, chronic pain). Despite these attributes, however, marijuana has somehow been placed in Schedule I (i.e. the class of controlled drugs with "high abuse potential" and "no legitimate medical use") along far more dangerous substances.

Plus, the most broadly used substances in medicine for strong pain are the opiates - which have strong abuse potential and many undesirable side effects (respiratory depression, constipation, mental clouding, etc). Is it really worse to be using marijuana in these situations than oxycodone or morphine?

Oh, I wasn't talking about deaths from marijuana itself; I'm fully aware that on its own it's not as dangerous as some may be led to believe. I was talking about deaths due to the effect marijuana has on one's mental state and the fact that people would abuse it, as MossPoh has pointed out.

 

[dozitgetchahi]

Oh, I wasn't talking about deaths from marijuana itself; I'm fully aware that on its own it's not as dangerous as some may be led to believe. I was talking about deaths due to the effect marijuana has on one's mental state and the fact that people would abuse it, as MossPoh has pointed out.

Point taken. I'd still wager that the number of deaths due to marijuana abuse would still be less than the number of deaths attributed to other strong pain meds or even alcohol.

Other than that I basically agree with you...I've never tried it but judging from what other people say about it I don't think I'd enjoy it. I've also met enough people who seem to have kissed their futures away due to excessive use of the stuff. Oddly, however, there seem to be a small but very real group of people whose performance it actually enhances (or at least they think it enhances their performance). For instance, there was this biochem major I knew who frankly smoked more weed than Snoop Dogg but still managed to clean the floor on almost every chemistry and physics test he took. He's now in UC Irvine's chemistry PhD program with a full tuition stipend. Clearly the stuff wasn't hindering his focus much.

 

[Bleurberry]

Oh, I wasn't talking about deaths from marijuana itself; I'm fully aware that on its own it's not as dangerous as some may be led to believe. I was talking about deaths due to the effect marijuana has on one's mental state and the fact that people would abuse it, as MossPoh has pointed out.

Don't worry too much about deaths by stoning, except in the middle east. Stoners here are more tolerant!