***Oversupply of Pharmacists***

Make the most of your gap year with our MSPN program.
This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
WVUPharm2007 said:
It's 2010 and they are using 0.9 as the Vd for empirical Vanc dosing. That is so beyond ****ed up, it frightens me. Everyone there that isn't the director or his attack dog likes me. I've got three staff pharmacists there acting as my references.
Click to expand...


Well, so they overdose a little... I guess it could be a good thing since we're shooting for higher troughs eh?

0.76L/kg is what I like.
Members don't see this ad.
 
tungsten87 said:
you know what.... i've wanted to post this for a while and i'm going to come clean here:

i've been a fairly hardcore follower of this forum for about three years now and needless to say I am familiar with the current climate of the pharmacist market (according to current pharms here).

I happened to have the dean of the school as my interviewer. after they finished asking all the questions they had laid out for me they asked me if i had any questions for them and i immediately asked this: "with all the new pharmacy schools currently opening and the lagging expansion of the major chain pharmacies, how do you think this will affect the job market for graduating pharmacists in the next 5-10 years?"

his response? "well, with all the baby boomers set to retire in the next 5-10 years there should be an incredible market for pharmacists in the near future..."

this is the same **** i have heard from every school i have interviewed at and it is really sickening in a way. thankfully (for my sake) i will be pursuing the pharmd/phd program and going into research (i never really wanted to work as a traditional pharmaacist but i think the clinical knowledge will benefit me in the pharm research world) but man, it really seems like these pharmacy schools are run in a strictly business-like fashion and they are easily selling this "pharmacist dream life" to all of the applicants.

keep in mind, this is a school where ~50% of the grads go into residency ( in the past few years) and a significant amount go into hospital. i cant even imagine the garbage these diploma mills are shoveling down the throats of their interviewees. sickening... just sickening.
Click to expand...

I'm glad you got it off your chest...

So who are you going to believe.....slime ball educators needing your tuition money or anonymous posters on the SDN... who actually care about pharmacy?
 
Last edited:
Its Z said:
I'm glad you got it off your chest...

So who are you going to believe.....slime ball educators needing your tuition money or anonymous posters on the SDN... who actually care about pharmacy?
Click to expand...

oh, the slime ball educators of course. does my post give off that vibe?
 
Last edited:
Members don't see this ad :)
tungsten87 said:
you know what.... i've wanted to post this for a while and i'm going to come clean here:

his response? "well, with all the baby boomers set to retire in the next 5-10 years there should be an incredible market for pharmacists in the near future..."

keep in mind, this is a school where ~50% of the grads go into residency and a significant amount go into hospital. i cant even imagine the garbage these diploma mills are shoveling down the throats of their interviewees. sickening... just sickening.
Click to expand...

Yeah, you can't trust deans of any schools. They're basically just marketing people now. It's really sad. There used to be some integrity in higher education, or so I thought. No skin off his back if you don't get a job.

BTW, this was really weird, but I was looking at UMD-Eastern Shore's Pharmacy website (not that I would ever consider applying there -- I once worked with an alum of the UG school and he wasn't the sharpest knife in the kitchen), and the picture on there looked crazy familiar. They either copied or just bought the rights to the same stock photo that Kaplan uses for their Getting into Pharmacy School guide. It's pretty hilarious.

I'm a little confused on one point though: Which schools are the ones specifically known diploma mills? Just the new ones with pre-candidate status?
 
Its Z said:
Well, so they overdose a little... I guess it could be a good thing since we're shooting for higher troughs eh?

0.76L/kg is what I like.
Click to expand...

That's just part of what was ****ed up. Don't forget about the ID "specialists" that didn't care about people whose troughs were like 5. "It's fine" they say..."you're ****ing insane", I'd think...

I go the advanced route. Vd based on renal function. It always gave me the best result. Fo rizzle.
 
WVUPharm2007 said:
Thankfully, the way it worked out I got to leave in a fiery explosion of cursing and **** talking. I didn't just burn the bridge, I put C4 on that thang and tossed urine filled water balloons over the water.
Click to expand...

I would have been surprised if it went down any different! Sucks to be out of work and to have the wife traveling all over. Z hasn't hooked you up yet? What good is this forum if you can't at least count on someone to get you a job.
 
pallywally said:
Yeah, you can't trust deans of any schools. They're basically just marketing people now. It's really sad. There used to be some integrity in higher education, or so I thought. No skin off his back if you don't get a job.

BTW, this was really weird, but I was looking at UMD-Eastern Shore's Pharmacy website (not that I would ever consider applying there -- I once worked with an alum of the UG school and he wasn't the sharpest knife in the kitchen), and the picture on there looked crazy familiar. They either copied or just bought the rights to the same stock photo that Kaplan uses for their Getting into Pharmacy School guide. It's pretty hilarious.

I'm a little confused on one point though: Which schools are the ones specifically known diploma mills? Just the new ones with pre-candidate status?
Click to expand...

i dont even know anymore. this school is one of the five oldest in the country (est. 1920's) and it FELT like a diploma mill. man, i'm feeling the like "PharmD" in general is just a sick, sick joke.
 
MountainPharmD said:
I would have been surprised if it went down any different! Sucks to be out of work and to have the wife traveling all over. Z hasn't hooked you up yet? What good is this forum if you can't at least count on someone to get you a job.
Click to expand...

Yeah, Z, wtf?

I can't start working until July or so being as though I'm a professional traveler and homemaker for the next month and a half. He's offered me stuff before...I just couldn't take him up on it due to timing and circumstances. And now that I'm finally free to do whatever the fudge I wanna do, the Canadians decide to cut reimbursements rates and the job market stateside dries up.

I'm not worried. I'm the type of person that always seems to fall ass backwards into greatness.
 
tungsten87 said:
i dont even know anymore. this school is one of the five oldest in the country (est. 1920's) and it FELT like a diploma mill. man, i'm feeling the like "PharmD" in general is just a sick, sick joke.
Click to expand...

And I always thought getting a Master's in Fine Arts with an emphasis on Interpretive Dance was a joke. Why do you feel the way you do? I'm seriously curious. You can send me a message if you prefer.
 
MountainPharmD said:
I would have been surprised if it went down any different! Sucks to be out of work and to have the wife traveling all over. Z hasn't hooked you up yet? What good is this forum if you can't at least count on someone to get you a job.
Click to expand...


Where the f***k were you people when I was struggling taking care of 150 patients with 2.5 FTE pharmacists? Huh? All those god dang retail pharmacists who snuffed at me because I couldn't match the retail salary!
How about the bastard walmart pharmacist who I trained so he could work some weekends for me but always called in sick the day before...which made me work every other weekend in addition to being a DOP!! 12 straight days of work was the norm for me!! How about when I had 31 women in the pharmacy dept who had the same menstral cycle!!! who never wanted to work any holidays because they were moms!!! So I had to work graveyard rotation with staff. I worked every christmas day for 10 years out of pharmacy school so others can enjoy the day off!!!

Screw y'all!!

Today.. there aint no jobs! I would have hired you 2 in a heartbeat 5 years ago..heck 3 years ago.. heck last June.. It all dried up last summer dood..
 
Passion4Sci said:
What other options are you considering, then?
Click to expand...

oh, i'm going to pharmacy school.. just know I will be a ruthless gunner.

barrett.jpg
 
WVUPharm2007 said:
Yeah, Z, wtf?

I can't start working until July or so being as though I'm a professional traveler and homemaker for the next month and a half.
Click to expand...

Have you tired a staffing agency? With hospital experience you could make some bucks. I still do some staffing gigs for retail. I work a 12 hour **** in East Texas and I take home $1,300. They call me all the time. I try to limit myself to only one a month. I still have to pay taxes on it at the end of the year so I do not want to get to crazy.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
tungsten87 said:
oh, i'm going to pharmacy school.. just know I will be a ruthless gunner.
Click to expand...

Look to your left and look to your right on orientation day....tungsten will have them offed by graduation day. Beware of tungsten!
 
MountainPharmD said:
Have you tired a staffing agency? With hospital experience you could make some bucks. I still do some staffing gigs for retail. I work a 12 hour **** in East Texas and I take home $1,300. They call me all the time. I try to limit myself to only one a month. I still have to pay taxes on it at the end of the year so I do not want to get to crazy.
Click to expand...

I worked some shifts in Huntington, WV back in March. The key is finding independent pharmacies. Then they just pay you an undisclosed amount of cash...
 
Praziquantel86 said:
On another note...any under the table residency offers that I could take you up on?
Click to expand...


LOL.. I no longer have direct influence on any residencies... my region has changed significantly last 12 months...
 
Its Z said:
I'm not saying leave pharmacy. I'm saying know what you're getting yourself into. Do know that you'll struggle to find internship. Do know that without a residency, hospital jobs will be hard to come by. Do know that the salary will probably not go up much. And do know that you may have to move pretty far to find a job. Also know the risk of taking out a large sum of student loans.
Click to expand...

I'm already thinking about that. The tuition for my school is an estimate of 4,043.85 a year, and FASFA offered me 12,186 dollars (I got a scholarship that pays 65% of 4yr tuition). I know that I don't need all that money in one year, but I was thinking about taking all of it and saving it just in case (like taking what I have left over and using it for the next year). And by the time I graduate I might have A LOT OF MONEY left over (plus money that I will add from working), and I can give it back. Hopefully I won't be in a deep debt. But this is only a plan, because I haven't yet accepted any loan. So if you think I'm doing this wrong, please tell me, so I won't mess up.
 
Ava999 said:
I'm already thinking about that. The tuition for my school is an estimate of 4,043.85 a year, and FASFA offered me 12,186 dollars (I got a scholarship that pays 65% of 4yr tuition). I know that I don't need all that money in one year, but I was thinking about taking all of it and saving it just in case (like taking what I have left over and using it for the next year). And by the time I graduate I might have A LOT OF MONEY left over (plus money that I will add from working), and I can give it back. Hopefully I won't be in a deep debt. But this is only a plan, because I haven't yet accepted any loan. So if you think I'm doing this wrong, please tell me, so I won't mess up.
Click to expand...

uh, any loans you take out will accrue interest so if you don't need the dough then don't take out the loans.
 
tungsten87 said:
uh, any loans you take out will accrue interest so if you don't need the dough then don't take out the loans.
Click to expand...

Agreed. And the savings rate is in the toilet and way lower than the interest rate on these loans, so there's no risk-less way to profit from taking out more loans than you need. And to try to do that is illegal anyhow.
 
Ava999 said:
I'm already thinking about that. The tuition for my school is an estimate of 4,043.85 a year, and FASFA offered me 12,186 dollars (I got a scholarship that pays 65% of 4yr tuition). I know that I don't need all that money in one year, but I was thinking about taking all of it and saving it just in case (like taking what I have left over and using it for the next year). And by the time I graduate I might have A LOT OF MONEY left over (plus money that I will add from working), and I can give it back. Hopefully I won't be in a deep debt. But this is only a plan, because I haven't yet accepted any loan. So if you think I'm doing this wrong, please tell me, so I won't mess up.
Click to expand...

Wow, that is very cheap. You're good to go.
 
Passion4Sci said:
Don't be scared, but like Z said, know what you're getting into.

There's really no field right now that is truly safe. With a BS in a biological science, if you decide not to do pharm, there are other options like CLS, industrial chemist, dentistry, optometry, podiatry, etc... Not that any of them are in any better shape, of course.

Right now, anything is a risk. The problem is you'll need to weigh possible debt with possible job. If you get your Pharm.D @ 185k, you'll be under the gun a lot more than someone who got it for 80k.
Click to expand...

I'm going to a 6 year pharmacy program (where if you get the required gpa, your in their pharmacy school), so I don't think I have those choices. But hopefully I won't need them. And when it comes to the debt, I have a plan . But please tell me if you think that plan will work . Thanks for your advice. :)
 
The oversupply affects all of us. It changed my life plans as it will yours.

I was going to slow down a bit..and work 2 to 3 days at a local hospital..when I'm 60 or so... Well, I know that's not going to happen now. Why would anyone hire a has been older pharmacist if they can get new fresh minted pharmacists...

So I'm going to have to keep my skills sharp and will probably try to work as a DOP for a smaller hospital and completely retire when I'm ready. I probably won't be very competitive as a staffer. Age discrimination happens.

I know most of you guys are not thinking about what you'll be doing in your sixties... well, I only have 18 years.

The idea of being able to pick up shifts here and there...travel and work once in a while has been crushed.

Selfish you say? Well, maybe. But do know that it's going to affect all of us including you too. So my long term plan has completely changed to better prepare myself.
 
Its Z said:
The oversupply affects all of us. It changed my life plans as it will yours.

I was going to slow down a bit..and work 2 to 3 days at a local hospital..when I'm 60 or so... Well, I know that's not going to happen now. Why would anyone hire a has been older pharmacist if they can get new fresh minted pharmacists...

So I'm going to have to keep my skills sharp and will probably try to work as a DOP for a smaller hospital and completely retire when I'm ready. I probably won't be very competitive as a staffer. Age discrimination happens.

I know most of you guys are not thinking about what you'll be doing in your sixties... well, I only have 18 years.

The idea of being able to pick up shifts here and there...travel and work once in a while has been crushed.

Selfish you say? Well, maybe. But do know that it's going to affect all of us including you too. So my long term plan has completely changed to better prepare myself.
Click to expand...

I know. Mine, too. I just want to find a town damn near anywhere that can get me two pharmacist jobs right now. Work on an MBA and try to get into management eventually.

Or just move to Alberta, Canada...
 
Ava999 said:
I'm going to a 6 year pharmacy program (where if you get the required gpa, your in their pharmacy school), so I don't think I have those choices. But hopefully I won't need them. And when it comes to the debt, I have a plan . But please tell me if you think that plan will work . Thanks for your advice. :)
Click to expand...


You're in HS? Did you go to your prom?
 
Sparda29 said:
Hey Z, is El Paso dried up? Main things pulling me to Texas are:

A - Cheap land and homes.
B - Higher speed limits.
C - Awesome gun laws.
D - Close to Colorado's slopes.
Click to expand...


I don't know about El Paso...but there was a talk of a new pharmacy school there. I drove through El Paso year ago...the town was bustling. What recession? Then again it could have been traffic from Juarez.

I would not live near El Paso.

One thing you have to be careful about real estate in TX is the higher property tax rate. It's countered by no state income tax. Some counties and cities have property tax over 3%. Do the math.

I'm 15 hours from CO slopes.. easy drive actually. Gun Laws? I think some cities have a mandatory gun ownership law...it's illegal to not have a gun. That town is very safe...almost no crime. I wonder why.
 
Ava999 said:
Lmao! did you ever regret it? Everyone says I will.
Click to expand...

Hahaha I didn't go to my prom either. I highly doubt i'm ever going to give a ****. I'm sure we all have bigger problems/regrets.
 
The public health service corp is offering 15-30K sign on bonuses for pharmacists.

Otherwise...Mikey, how do you like Arizona? I have a couple leads...EDIT: that is, of course, if my peeps haven't already hired somebody in the last 7 days.

As for gunners...I am already a networking gunner :laugh:
 
Last edited:
hey forum
So obviously talk of this pharmacy surplus is getting us all pretty scared and it seems to be dominating the pharmacy forums ( i have seen 5 threads about it) This fear is probably creating a lot of new questions for all of us wannabe-pharmacists. I know I have a lot. Mainly I think its just a concern of am i going to have a job and if i do will it be enough to pay for debts? I've talked to some people who are concerned about going into a bachelors degree program then a 4 year pharm program because the debt might be too great and they may not get something rewarding out of it. So for those of us debating between a six year pharm program and doing an 8 year one can you experienced tell us what is a more intelligent decision to assure some type of job and makes you more competitive as a pharmacist.

six years means more time to look for a job but also you are more limited in your job choice having only one degree.

Or would it simply be better to do eight years because we are more competitive and have a backup?

thanks

eight
 
ChemistWiz said:
hey forum
So obviously talk of this pharmacy surplus is getting us all pretty scared and it seems to be dominating the pharmacy forums ( i have seen 5 threads about it) This fear is probably creating a lot of new questions for all of us wannabe-pharmacists. I know I have a lot. Mainly I think its just a concern of am i going to have a job and if i do will it be enough to pay for debts? I've talked to some people who are concerned about going into a bachelors degree program then a 4 year pharm program because the debt might be too great and they may not get something rewarding out of it. So for those of us debating between a six year pharm program and doing an 8 year one can you experienced tell us what is a more intelligent decision to assure some type of job and makes you more competitive as a pharmacist.

six years means more time to look for a job but also you are more limited in your job choice having only one degree.

Or would it simply be better to do eight years because we are more competitive and have a backup?

thanks

eight
Click to expand...

Either way, I think the job market is in too large of a state of flux to be able to tell what things are going to be like in 6 vs 8 years down the road. There will almost certainly be less jobs available, but the scope of that reduction depends on the number of schools that open and graduate classes, the economy, the effect of the healthcare bill and how the different pharmacy initiatives settle in (see ASHP 2015 and ACCP).

Personally, and I know I'll probably end up getting flamed for this, I would set your goals on going to a school that has been around for quite a few years, so that you'll be prepared when that really begins to matter. If you plan on doing anything outside of retail, I'd be prepared to do a residency (not debating the merit of residencies, just stating my opinion). I would also have a backup plan. Whether the best way to do this is getting a bachelors first and taking the more optimistic view of the job market or getting a 6-year PharmD and understanding that you may need more remains to be seen.

Good luck to you.
 
Ava999 said:
Lmao! did you ever regret it? Everyone says I will.
Click to expand...

I didn't go to the prom either. Reason was I didn't want to shell out $400 for the fees and the tuxedo. Unless you have a small core of good friends you always hang out with and they will all be going, then it's a waste.

Day of the prom, me and most of my friends cut school and went to Six Flags, Dave and Busters, and snuck into places where 17 and 18 year olds shouldn't be going. :smuggrin:
 
Its Z said:
Your region... Southwest Texas used to be a gold mine for pharmacists. It shocked the heck out of me to see very little hospital pharmacy openings in your area now... has A&M graduated the first class yet?
Click to expand...

A&M and UIW both graduated their first classes this year. I don't want to get into specifics, but a local institution basically agreed to create a residency position for someone, but it involved a 50-60 hour work week, followed by staffing on weekends.

I intend to do a residency and go the clinical path (of course, this might change). But are most residencies going to work you like that for a waiter's wage?
 
Ava999 said:
No :cry:
I had to go to work (my first job). For some reason I don't regret it though.
Click to expand...

Skipped mine too. Was dating a chick from Vegas at the time, had more fun out there (despite being <21). This was 10 years ago, I don't regret it at all.
 
Spend time making connections and talking to your classmates. Then learn about their connections as well and ask them any questions you have when you want to find a position for work. It might seem annoying, but if you ask one person at a time, it doesn't seem too bad.

If your goal is to be a pharmacist, it won't matter how many degrees you have (unless you want to do something other than being a pharmacist after you work for a while). But if you just want to get a job, then having two degrees might help.
 
The old axiom, "It's not what you now, but who you know" will become more and more popular, so make sure you network well.

NO JOB is safe right now, but in 6-8 years, who knows?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Next unread thread

Similar threads

T
Workload of Pharmacists compared to other health professions?
Replies
8
Views
2K
PharmtoCS
P
R
SDN Article: Pharmacist Profile: Candice Richard
Replies
0
Views
699
Rachel Liu
R
M
  • Locked
Midwestern Chicago College of Pharmacy Downers Grove IL-Pharmacist Review
Replies
0
Views
888
MidwesternDownersGrad
M
C
  • Locked
During my upcoming pharmacy interview how can I use my non direct pharmacy experience and incorporate that into how I'd be a good pharmacist?
Replies
4
Views
2K
gyngyn
gyngyn
D
40% of senior pharmacists at Walmart
Replies
23
Views
4K
TerryTerry
T
Top