Overwhelmed

[GlobetrotterDR]

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Okay, I just have to ask- did anyone else feel totally overwhelmed when you started looking at which med schools to apply to? I feel so lost. My overall GPA is a 3.46, my BCMP GPA is 2.9 (I know this is low but there is an upward trend). I have a major in Anthropology, and a minor in Biology. I would really like to go to an Allopathic school but I don't know where I have a realistic chance of getting in. By the way, I'm a Michigan resident.

Also, does anyone have any advice on doing post-bacc work? I got a letter from Loyola that said that they are offering a MA in Medical Sciences, and if you complete the program with a 3.5 or better and you have a 28 or higher on the MCAT, you have a guaranteed interview at the Stritch School of Medicine. Is there a catch here? What do you all think about this? Also, are there other programs like this out there? HELP!

 

[Law2Doc]

I got a letter from Loyola that said that they are offering a MA in Medical Sciences, and if you complete the program with a 3.5 or better and you have a 28 or higher on the MCAT, you have a guaranteed interview at the Stritch School of Medicine. Is there a catch here? What do you all think about this? Also, are there other programs like this out there? HELP!

There's no catch, but an interview does not equal an acceptance. Yes, there are other programs like this. You can probably find lots of info on the postbac board.

 

[BellyDancingDoc]

Yeah, with a 2.9 BCPM, you really would be wise to do a year's woth of post-bacc work before you apply. The updard trend might help in a few places, but the problem is that many schools have initial GPA screenings- and if you don't pass the initial screening, no one will even look at your application in order to notice the upward trend.

The Loyola program sounds pretty good. There are also other post-bacc type programs at places like Georgetown, Bryn Mawr, Drexel, Goucher, and Columbia. Some of these programs may be only for people who haven't finished the pre-reqs, but others (Georgetown & Drexel for sure) are for people who have finished the pre-reqs but need a little more help in the grades department.

Good luck!
Frogs

 

[spicedmanna]

Without knowing your MCAT score, it's hard to judge anything. On the other hand, your overall GPA is below average for a maticulant and your BCPM GPA is considerably below average. I wouldn't apply to any schools until you can raise those GPA's. There would be nothing wrong with applying as is, but you are decidedly minimizing your chances by doing so. If you want to apply allopathic, think undergraduate GPA and MCAT; those are probably the most important factors in the determination of whether you will receive an interview or not.

Bottomline: even before considering your MCAT, you will need to prove yourself academically. One way to do that is to enroll in a post-baccalaureate program, whether formal or informal. Take as many upper-level science classes as you can; complete semesters with a full science load. Receive all A's.

If you want to dish out the extra cash, there are SMP's out there to take it away from you. In these programs, you take a bunch of the same classes as MSI's, and you are graded in reference to their performance. This gives medical schools an idea of how you would perform as a first-year student. At the end, you receive a Master's degree, usually in physiology. I know Georgetown's SMP program is competitive; you need to apply for admission and meet certain minimum academic standards.

Both are viable options with which I am familiar. I can't speak to the Loyola program, or any others like it.

Okay, I just have to ask- did anyone else feel totally overwhelmed when you started looking at which med schools to apply to? I feel so lost. My overall GPA is a 3.46, my BCMP GPA is 2.9 (I know this is low but there is an upward trend). I have a major in Anthropology, and a minor in Biology. I would really like to go to an Allopathic school but I don't know where I have a realistic chance of getting in. By the way, I'm a Michigan resident.

Also, does anyone have any advice on doing post-bacc work? I got a letter from Loyola that said that they are offering a MA in Medical Sciences, and if you complete the program with a 3.5 or better and you have a 28 or higher on the MCAT, you have a guaranteed interview at the Stritch School of Medicine. Is there a catch here? What do you all think about this? Also, are there other programs like this out there? HELP!

 

[crazy_cavalier]

Wait a sec, don't automatically assume a guaranteed interview = a guaranteed acceptance. Generally, you still have in the neighborhood of ~50% chance of acceptance at the interview stage.

 

[Non-TradTulsa]

Hey, Globetrotter. You've got some problems that will have to be dealt with. Generally, when your GPA is sub-par, your best bet is your own state-supported medical school - but Michigan is definitely very competitive. A BCPM of 2.9 is probably going to be a tough sell at any U.S. medical school. While a formal 2-year post-bacc is definitely an option, it's extremely expensive. If you can do a year of self-directed post-bacc work and get that BCPM up to somewhere around a 3.3, you'll still have some challenges but you'll be in much better shape. The ugly truth is that, while an upward trend will help you in interviews, it won't help you get past an initial cut-off screening, which is quite common. A lot also hinges on your MCAT.

My advice would be to take a pass on applying this cycle. Your chances are extremely poor and you'll have the challenges (including a bruised ego) of being a re-applicant. Best of luck to you.

 

[GlobetrotterDR]

Thanks so much for the advice...I have a couple of questions though:
1. Would it look bad if I was a second time applicant?
2. What do you think of getting an MPH or Masters in Medical Anthropology rather than doing post-bacc work?

Thanks again

 

[Tired]

Thanks so much for the advice...I have a couple of questions though:
1. Would it look bad if I was a second time applicant?
2. What do you think of getting an MPH or Masters in Medical Anthropology rather than doing post-bacc work?

Have you considered looking at another career? You still haven't told us your MCAT score. This whole situation may be insurmountable, even with a graduate school stuff.

 

[DrBowtie]

Read some threads in the post bacc forum. They should be able to give you some more insight.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/forumdisplay.php?f=71

 

[GlobetrotterDR]

Have you considered looking at another career? You still haven't told us your MCAT score. This whole situation may be insurmountable, even with a graduate school stuff.

OUCH Tired! Another career? I think not. Thanks for the motivational words though😉

And no, I haven't taken my MCAT yet.

 

[spicedmanna]

Thanks so much for the advice...I have a couple of questions though:
1. Would it look bad if I was a second time applicant?
2. What do you think of getting an MPH or Masters in Medical Anthropology rather than doing post-bacc work?

Thanks again

It never looks "good" to have applied more than once, so avoid it if you can. Apply to get in. Period. Also, make sure you rock the MCAT.

I don't see any value in getting a MPH or Master's degree in Medical Anthropology, unless it inspires you. Medical schools separate your undergraduate GPA from your graduate GPA. In essence, your graduate degree will be viewed kind of like a good EC, due to the thought that many graduate programs inflate their grades. Your undergraduate GPA will have a much greater weight than say, a graduate GPA, that's why it's important to do additional post-baccalaureate undergraduate work to drive it up to a reasonable number.

I know it's crazy, but that's often how the medical school admission machines work. It seems endemic to allopathic schools to first consider your numbers, and then look at the whole picture if you meet their criteria. If you don't like this approach, you should consider osteopathic schools, who tend to, as a general practice at this point in time, look at you more holistically right from the beginning. I know these are generalizations.

 

[Non-TradTulsa]

Thanks so much for the advice...I have a couple of questions though:
1. Would it look bad if I was a second time applicant?
2. What do you think of getting an MPH or Masters in Medical Anthropology rather than doing post-bacc work?

Thanks again

Hey, Globetrotter. Being a second-time applicant is never an ideal situation - you might look at the re-applicant forum. It's an "intangible" and plenty of people get in the second time, but it's another small cloud on your app. The thing is, medical school admission, once you've been through it, will feel very random. You need a decent MCAT, GPA, and interview - but sometimes that isn't enough, and nobody will tell you why. Sometimes it's just the luck of the draw on who interviews you, and it can be very frustrating. For that reason, though, you need to minimize "dings" on your app - just in case the adcom person who reads your app got up on the wrong side of the bed that day (yes, it really is that bad!).

And, I agree with spicedmanna - a Masters' will not help you nearly as much as getting that GPA up will. There is a reason for this - most applicants do not have graduate degrees, so your graduate GPA isn't comparable to the rest of the applicant pool - therefore it's not useful except as an intangible indicator of your ability to handle more advanced work.

So, I hate to hammer this because you seem like a determined, personable applicant - but don't apply with a BCPM 2.9. Regardless of your MCAT score, you'll be toast before you ever get out of the gate and you'll be wasting money in order to buy yourself a heartbreak. And, as I mentioned, somebody in the admissions office will screen you out before an adcom member ever reads your essay or ECs. Get that BCPM up!!! Good luck!

 

[coffeebythelake]

OUCH Tired! Another career? I think not. Thanks for the motivational words though😉

It seems you are pretty dead set on becoming a doctor, but you should realize that medicine is a challenging profession to get into. There is a lot of commitment to prepare both personally and academically. Obviously, one of the ways that schools measure an applicant's ability to handle the academic workload is their undergraduate GPA. So you have to ask yourself, is there a reason why you haven't done so well? And how do you know you will be able to handle future challenges?

And no, I haven't taken my MCAT yet.

The MCAT isn't easy, and there is an element of chance to it. I know many people who though they did well but ended up disappointed. Expect to spend a couple months studying.

To be honest I think you should consider a DO route. It is less competitive and you still end up being a physician. If having the MD title is such an important thing for you, then you need to: (1) take post-bacc to raise your GPA to a respectable value, (2) beat the crap out of the MCAT like a 38 or higher, (3) find lots of extracurriculars and activities to boost your profile.

 

[Law2Doc]

Thanks so much for the advice...I have a couple of questions though:
1. Would it look bad if I was a second time applicant?
2. What do you think of getting an MPH or Masters in Medical Anthropology rather than doing post-bacc work?

Thanks again

There are disadvantages to being a reapplicant. So you want to get your ducks all lined in a row before you pull the trigger. This process isn't something you just wing and hope you get lucky. You take the time you need to put yourself in a good light and then apply.
As for MPH etc, this is not a good substitute for a postbac. Schools want to see that you can handle the hard sciences. MPH is useful if you are interested in public health but not particularly great as a tool to get into med school. Some people who go down this road end up having to do both.

And just a definitional point, most people (and AMCAS) use the word postbac to describe additional undergraduate level work you do after college, either taking the prereqs or upper level undergraduate sciences.. Undergraduate work can have an impact on your GPA (there is a combined ug and ug postbac on AMCAS, which schools reportedly look at). A masters, by contrast, is graduate level work, and will not impact your GPA. The SMP (special masters program) is the pre-medical version of a masters I think you were describing above, and is technically not a postbac. But people in SMPs have the opportunity to demonstrate that they can handle med school level sciences, and as such many have solid track records of getting people into med school as well.

 

[HumbleMD]

It seems you are pretty dead set on becoming a doctor, but you should realize that medicine is a challenging profession to get into. There is a lot of commitment to prepare both personally and academically. Obviously, one of the ways that schools measure an applicant's ability to handle the academic workload is their undergraduate GPA. So you have to ask yourself, is there a reason why you haven't done so well? And how do you know you will be able to handle future challenges?



The MCAT isn't easy, and there is an element of chance to it. I know many people who though they did well but ended up disappointed. Expect to spend a couple months studying.

To be honest I think you should consider a DO route. It is less competitive and you still end up being a physician. If having the MD title is such an important thing for you, then you need to: (1) take post-bacc to raise your GPA to a respectable value, (2) beat the crap out of the MCAT like a 38 or higher, (3) find lots of extracurriculars and activities to boost your profile.

Seriously, I think it's the best option. With a <3.0 GPA, it's pretty unlikely that you'll get a 38+ on the MCAT. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's not probable. I'm not as familiar with it, but I would seriously consider DO, as, being a Michigan resident, you happen to have the best DO school in your backyard (MSU). You could try applying to MSU's MD program or Wayne, but it's not as likely. Get through this next semester, see how your GPA fares, and then take the MCAT and do a status check with a good pre-med advisor.

 

[GlobetrotterDR]

Hi all,
I just wanted to say thanks for the solid advice. It's kind of crushing to hear how low my chances actually are (even though I've known this all along). But... I have to say that YES- I am dead set on getting into an American Allopathic school. Now it seems from your advice that the best way to do this is to do some postbacc work. I'm looking into the posts in the postbacc forum and looking at my options. Is there anything else I should be thinking of?

My ECs are pretty good- they include: 200+ hours as an ER volunteer, 2 years working as a Pediatric Nurse Assistant, 1 year of tutoring math, private tutor for both chemistry and English, 2 leadership roles in student organizations, 1.5 years research intern for Medical Anthropology grad program, and I speak 4 languages, 2 of them fluently, and 2 semifluently.

As of now, I think I just need to focus on the MCAT and getting my GPA up. What else can I do to make myself competitive, and where can I apply and have a shot at getting in if I get my overall above a 3.5 and my BCPM above a 3.0? And no, I don't want to go DO. Thanks so much for the help everyone!

 

[foofish]

In chosing between a postbac and a smp, just keep in mind what kind of classes you're taking. If your goal is to raise your science gpa, you need to be taking more undergraduate classes. AMCAS calculates graduate gpa classes separately. (But if you've already taken most of the upperlevel bio/science classes due to your major/minor, then taking graduate level classes is probably your best bet.)

 

[GlobetrotterDR]

Actually, I'm a non-science major so I've only taken the minimum requirements for med school. I think I should do post-bac to raise my science gpa. What do you think?

 

[Non-TradTulsa]

Actually, I'm a non-science major so I've only taken the minimum requirements for med school. I think I should do post-bac to raise my science gpa. What do you think?

Absolutely. Some additional undergrad work is what you need, whether you do it on your own or in a formal program. Some upper-division life science (cell bio, genetics, biochem) can raise your science GPA and make you a more competitive candidate.

 

[GlobetrotterDR]

I took classes like Genetics, Cell Bio, Physio, etc. as an undergrad. When I'm post-bac, do I repeat these same classes? These are actually the classes that I did fairly well in. The classes that brought my science GPA down were my introlevel science courses. It took me a while in college to figure out how to study after I just floated by with good grades in high school. Once I figured out how to get my butt into gear, I had scored four C's in Orgo 1, Intro Bio, Microbio, and Gen. Chem II. Once I started the upper levels like Genetics, Physiology (other 3000+ level courses), I started pulling the A/s.

 

[GlobetrotterDR]

So since I already did well in the upper levels like Genetics, Physiology (other 3000+ level courses) what do I need to be doing for post-bac work? Additional upper level sciences?