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SeekerOfTheTree

SeekerOfTheTree

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So guys I am split and am hoping for some advice.

A couple of months ago I started interviewing for a position out at one of the big 3 consulting firms(BCG, McK...). I had some contacts from the old world that helped. So I got an offer yesterday for a senior cons with pay around 120-140k. I have old cons exp too so it helps. The reason I looked into this in the first place was the doom and gloom talk of medicine and how we should get out. I still love medicine and EM but everyone on the forum makes me scared about the future of medicine.

What do you guys think? I feel like in a parallel universe I would love to see what happens with the other choice I don't make. Any advice?
 
The grass is always greener....

Whatever you do, do it and don't look back.
 
IMO the jobs are so different I would think that the decision would be pretty obvious to you. I guess it depends on what your motivations for pursuing medicine were... if you can meet those goals in the consulting field, then... why not? But only you can answer that lol.
 
It's so hard to decide what I want to do. I like both. That's why I like polygamy.
 
Think long term --- can you see yourself enjoying it 20 years from now.

As for the bitchin', it would still happen if this was a sanitation engineer forum.

Find the career (not job) that moves you.
 
Dude aren't you in the midst of interviews? Hell of a time to be thinking about switching...

I have no advice, but I will share this with you. When I was a second year, I had the chance of getting out, right then and there, no debts. I had work lined up if I wanted it (not as lucrative as yours), and I had a beach condo to live in. I thought about it hard, obviously decided to stay in medicine. Mainly because I really loved it, even though I love many other things.

PGY 2 now, haven't regretted it yet,
 
Won't these other opportunities (consulting or whatever) be available at 120-140K after residency also?

I am not sure the reverse is true.

HH
 
Hamhock said:
Won't these other opportunities (consulting or whatever) be available at 120-140K after residency also?

I am not sure the reverse is true.

HH
Click to expand...


I would probably argue just the opposite..... Seems like residency will always be here, and taking a couple years off in between to explore other options may not be the best thing for landing your top residency (if you decided to come back), but I think it will always be a realistic possibility as long as you graduate.

That being said, I don't think the future of medicine is as grim as everyone forecasts, especially in the EM forum, Considering every EM doc is trained to be a pessimist (rule out the worst case scenario first).
 
Hamhock said:
Won't these other opportunities (consulting or whatever) be available at 120-140K after residency also?

I am not sure the reverse is true.

HH
Click to expand...

My thoughts exactly. I'm assuming that you'd be doing some kind of medical consulting, so I'd think that your opportunities in that field would only improve after doing residency and working for a few years as an attending.

But students who don't match right out of school and aren't doing some sort of research specific to their chosen field? Your prospects are going to be much more limited.

Plus, 140K is a pretty paltry sum compared to what you'd make in EM. Live frugally, and if you find out you hate medicine after a few years, you'll at least have made enough to pay off your loans. Then you could do whatever you want.

Don't jump ship just because you're getting cold feet. You've been dating this girl at least four years. Is it worth it to throw away all the good times and the things you love about her just because she might put on a few pounds?
 
You guys are right. I am really surprised but it is nice to hear you guys come together and talk so highly about the field. I do agree with you guys, the consulting opportunities I can always pull a couple of strings to show up again. I think I would miss medicine if I gave it up. It's so easy to always wonder about the shoulda, woulda, coulda...

On a weird note how did you know I was with her for four years before we broke up?
 
8654Marine said:
Think long term --- can you see yourself enjoying it 20 years from now.

As for the bitchin', it would still happen if this was a sanitation engineer forum.

Find the career (not job) that moves you.
Click to expand...


So much this.

"Oh, you hate your job? Why didn't you say so? There's a support group for that. It's called EVERYBODY, and they meet at the BAR." - George Carlin
 
SeekerOfTheTree said:
You guys are right. I am really surprised but it is nice to hear you guys come together and talk so highly about the field. I do agree with you guys, the consulting opportunities I can always pull a couple of strings to show up again. I think I would miss medicine if I gave it up. It's so easy to always wonder about the shoulda, woulda, coulda...

On a weird note how did you know I was with her for four years before we broke up?
Click to expand...

The four years to which he refers is med school. That you also had a 4 year relationship with a flesh and blood woman is just serendipitous (or hellishly coincidental, depending on how things went).
 
If you walk away now, you will probably never come back to medicine.
A nice paying job and semi-normal lifestyle will make residency not seem like so good an option.

If you enjoy medicine, I'd stick it out.
 
gman33 said:
If you walk away now, you will probably never come back to medicine.
A nice paying job and semi-normal lifestyle will make residency not seem like so good an option.

If you enjoy medicine, I'd stick it out.
Click to expand...

I'm kind of curious, a number of programs I have interviewed at said that their residents only work ~16-18 ten-hour shifts per month when in the ED. I know there are off-service months, but that really doesn't seem like that bad of a deal. Is there some sort of fine print along with that statement that they aren't mentioning?
 
woeiru said:
I'm kind of curious, a number of programs I have interviewed at said that their residents only work ~16-18 ten-hour shifts per month when in the ED. I know there are off-service months, but that really doesn't seem like that bad of a deal. Is there some sort of fine print along with that statement that they aren't mentioning?
Click to expand...

Are they true 10 hour shifts (are the residents staying after their shifts end to finish up notes, sort out their remaining patients, etc)? There are usually some "days off" that are really a transition from working days to nights or vice versa. So they're technically a day off but it doesn't feel like it.
 
At this point it's 50k x 3 years then 250k x 2 years versus 140k x 5 years to break even. My math isn't right but you get the idea.

I used to make almost that much for a short time before med school. It sucks to see your friends buying new M3's and airplanes when you're slumming and spending your time in the library. The job was in industry, by the way, not prostitution. BUT, I'm glad I went this route and rarely long for my old life. I still reserve the right to bitch.
 
Birdstrike said:
Yes, there's "huge" fine print, in every post I've ever written (most now deleted), in posts by General Veers, docB, 8654Marine, jarabacoa, niner, gringa and many others.

Here's more "fine print" below. In fact, wear your sunglasses before you read this one by Dr. Michael Jacobson or your retinas might be burned out by the intensity of truth shining out of your screen. Bravo, Dr Jacobson, for expressing the frustrations faced by many a pit doc. I couldn't have said it better:

http://journals.lww.com/em-news/Ful...try_from_an.1.aspx?WT.mc_id=HPxADx20100319xMP
Click to expand...


Haha, oh I know about that aspect of it (or like to think I have an inexperienced idea at this point), I was questioning total hours put in. 2 of the 3 programs in question claimed that they only stay after 30minutes usually, sometimes an hour tops. My home program seems to put in many more hours/shifts...
 
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Birdstrike said:
Give me one reason I shouldn't.
Click to expand...

Well, apart from your petulant response, you have a writing gift, and you write some of the best, incisive, applicable, accessible stuff on this forum, and on the whole site. Also, when you write something, and someone responds without quoting, then it makes a jumble of the thread, incomprehensible, and stilts discussion.

Also, SDN itself (via the mod staff) is fond of saying that, once something is posted, even if it is deleted, it is never REALLY gone, as Google (and possibly others) will cache it infinitely. However, I can't find that when I look, so I am not the most electronically facile. There is one caveat, though - if one posts, then deletes it before it is made record (I think it's about 5 minutes), then, it is gone forever. Even the mods, who still see deleted posts, won't see it.

And, if your only reason is "why shouldn't I?", that raises a question of whether you are some kind of conspiracy nut, or if something else clouds your judgment, and influences your writing.

Finally, to your question of "why shouldn't I?", I respond with "why should you?" The most likely/common/least resistance path is to post it, and leave it.

edit: unless you have some sort of contract or agreement about writing that you can't do it without prior permission (or not at all), and you take stuff down before it gets noticed. That's a possibility.

(And you'll note that there isn't some small type italicized message as to when or why I edited this. If I edit a second time, though, it will come up.)
 
Birdstrike - I have to say that I am disappointed when I miss your posts before they are deleted. I am always sure it was something informative and well written and I feel as if I missed out.

Several of you regulars on here have been people I pay attention to more than others. You have been better mentors than some of my attendings on some things. Thank you all.
 
I would argue that you are doing us youngsters a disservice by removing your posts. To echo the above, the old timer and experienced attendings here really dish out a perspective that would be very difficult to get otherwise, if all of a sudden the great posts start getting deleted then future students and residents will be robbed of this learning experience.

For someone that advocates change as much as you do, I would say it is your duty to leave your posts up, at the very least they get people thinking.
 
.
 
Last edited:
Birdstrike said:
Why whipe out old posts?

I like being part of the day to day converation here on SDN, and generally, I've made a point to never post anything I couldn't live with if my name ended up attached to it. But still, with so many people reading what I've written now, the thought of every midnight rant I've ever posted being online for eternity, should I be outed, is not appealing. So the way I look at it, it is like conversation. If you happen to catch a post of mine and like it; awesome. If not, it may evaporate like smoke. Or it may end up on Whitecoat's Call Room or on KevinMD read by thousands, online for all of eternity. It depends on which direction the wind blows that day. Or I may just disappear and be done. Who knows? I am fully aware, that I am an irrelevant, anonymous blogger on a tiny insignificant sliver of the blogosphere. Does it really make a difference what I do?
Click to expand...

"Nothing matters much, and very little matters at all."

Although you make some arch points, there isn't anything attacking or salacious in what you write. And, still, you are inscrutable - despite everyone and their brother asking you into what area you transitioned, where you are, or whatever, you reveal so little. I think the sum total is that you are married to a woman, and you have more than one kid. I don't even know what is the distribution.

I mean, I say stupid stuff, controversial stuff, and I name names. And I have been SDN stalked more than once - if people are cowards, internet people are cowards distilled to their essence, concentrated, and untempered or seasoned by any type of filter. People easily figure me out, and I have a lot more (more or less) to "lose" on SDN were I "outed".

I mean, WhiteCoat gives out even more detail, but he remains anonymous. If you have seen Redditors or 4Chan people, and how they crowdsource identification - like from a burger wrapper in a picture, or offhand shadow striking a fencepost - you can see how easily people can be identified (what was that one from SE Europe with the puppies being drowned? That ID was rapid and complete), but you don't offer any wisp.

The only thing I can say to you is that we are two sides to the same coin, or the same half-full/half-empty glass of water (or, as the SDN joke goes: "To the optimist, the glass is half full. To the pessimist, it is half empty. To the chemist, it is full, half with liquid, and half with gas"). If you can just internalize again, and write from inside, instead of thinking about how to polish or edit it, that's the selfsame reason that you got picked up by EP Monthly and KevinMD. If you worry about the wider exposure, then the same reason you are there isn't any more.

But, as far as SDN goes, you're one of the more substantial posters, in the truest sense of the word. You have substance, so, when you delete posts, as EM2BE (and ask her how I figured out who she was, if she even remembers - has to do with her old username) says, she wonders what she missed. The rule I have is that, if I post it, and no one quotes it, if I regret it, I can go back and delete it. However, if someone else has addressed it, or quoted it, I stand by it, whether I am eating cake or **** (as the case may be).

Or, in a plaintive tone, to harken back to the 80s, and "Yazoo", "Don't go!"
 
SeekerOfTheTree said:
So guys I am split and am hoping for some advice.

A couple of months ago I started interviewing for a position out at one of the big 3 consulting firms(BCG, McK...). I had some contacts from the old world that helped. So I got an offer yesterday for a senior cons with pay around 120-140k. I have old cons exp too so it helps. The reason I looked into this in the first place was the doom and gloom talk of medicine and how we should get out. I still love medicine and EM but everyone on the forum makes me scared about the future of medicine.

What do you guys think? I feel like in a parallel universe I would love to see what happens with the other choice I don't make. Any advice?
Click to expand...

Your tagline says that you're a medical student. It would help knowing where in your career you are exactly. It would also help to know how stable this consulting job would be. The reality of Obamacare is that we're going to have the disadvantages of the single payer systems of other countries, while keeping the negative malpractice climate of our own. This may change, but it won't happen in my lifetime.
 
People have been saying Medicine is going down the hole for at least 20 years now. Yet every month somebody puts $20-40K into my bank account. I can't explain it. But I'm going to stick with it until changes, or until I get sick of it, whichever comes first.
 
Let Birdstrike delete whatever he wants. I once deleted hundreds of SDN posts and changed my name after I got outed at work. I'd posted plenty of relatively anti-military stuff and I worked for the military. Thought that might not be wise. I was honest in all of them, but I still didn't want some yeahoo commander sending me to Iraq for 12 months for it. I'm sure Birdstrike has his reasons. Leave him be....
 
So, this may make me sound very dumb.....but what exactly is consulting? All I know is that it's a nebulous field where you get paid for your expertise. What exactly do they do? Like, day to day stuff?
 
Companies give consulting contracts to do something. That something can range from outsourcing, strategizing, to putting in new systems or business processes. It can encompass any aspect of business and also any industry. Usually involves too much travel and too many hotels. It's like going on the interview trail for the rest of your life.
 
Apollyon said:
"Nothing matters much, and very little matters at all."

Although you make some arch points, there isn't anything attacking or salacious in what you write. And, still, you are inscrutable - despite everyone and their brother asking you into what area you transitioned, where you are, or whatever, you reveal so little. I think the sum total is that you are married to a woman, and you have more than one kid. I don't even know what is the distribution.

I mean, I say stupid stuff, controversial stuff, and I name names. And I have been SDN stalked more than once - if people are cowards, internet people are cowards distilled to their essence, concentrated, and untempered or seasoned by any type of filter. People easily figure me out, and I have a lot more (more or less) to "lose" on SDN were I "outed".

I mean, WhiteCoat gives out even more detail, but he remains anonymous. If you have seen Redditors or 4Chan people, and how they crowdsource identification - like from a burger wrapper in a picture, or offhand shadow striking a fencepost - you can see how easily people can be identified (what was that one from SE Europe with the puppies being drowned? That ID was rapid and complete), but you don't offer any wisp.

The only thing I can say to you is that we are two sides to the same coin, or the same half-full/half-empty glass of water (or, as the SDN joke goes: "To the optimist, the glass is half full. To the pessimist, it is half empty. To the chemist, it is full, half with liquid, and half with gas"). If you can just internalize again, and write from inside, instead of thinking about how to polish or edit it, that's the selfsame reason that you got picked up by EP Monthly and KevinMD. If you worry about the wider exposure, then the same reason you are there isn't any more.

But, as far as SDN goes, you're one of the more substantial posters, in the truest sense of the word. You have substance, so, when you delete posts, as EM2BE (and ask her how I figured out who she was, if she even remembers - has to do with her old username) says, she wonders what she missed. The rule I have is that, if I post it, and no one quotes it, if I regret it, I can go back and delete it. However, if someone else has addressed it, or quoted it, I stand by it, whether I am eating cake or **** (as the case may be).

Or, in a plaintive tone, to harken back to the 80s, and "Yazoo", "Don't go!"
Click to expand...

I do remember that :laugh: You were one of maybe 2 that figured it out.
 
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