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AnatomyGrey12
So like I said earlier, the answer is both yes and no for how it affects you, and it isn't black and white, there are varying degrees of how residencies differ across the spectrum. I'll speak directly to the surgical fields, mainly GS. If a program is ACGME accredited that means that it will give you the minimum requirements necessary to be a safe surgeon. Beyond that there is a large amount of variation in training programs.Yeah I understand there's always a few every year. But that doesn't mean the opportunities of DO == MD.
Another thought, does the quality of residencies differ? What do you guys feel about doing a GS residency in rural Kansas vs a major tertiary hospital in NYC? Sure a surgeon is a surgeon but how does that affect fellowships/opportunities down the line?
Residency "prestige" really only matters if 1. you want to go into academics and try and climb the proverbial ivory tower, or 2. if you want pediatrics or surgical oncology. Both of those fields are small, and highly academic. For those specialties there is essentially the requirement to do 2 research years in residency. Now having said that, most university based academic programs put people in these specialties. Not a lot of people want these specialties. In my experience on the interview trail there is actually very little correlation between the prestige of a residency program and the actual quality of training. The vast majority of traditional ACGME community programs place people in all of the other fellowships on a consistent basis and don't close any doors. So no, it doesn't matter if you do GS residency in "rural" Kansas at KU Wichita compared to a major tertiary hospital in NYC. Honestly you probably will be more proficient at KU Wichita because of how much they operate and their autonomy. Personally, I am ranking some community and community hybrid programs above a number of traditional academic programs because of my career goals and the training at those places I feel is just better for what I want and where I want my career to go.
Now for the other side of the coin, community practice. Despite all protesting on SDN, going to a DO surgical program will hurt your job prospects somewhat. Now you will absolutely be able to get a job, probably one you like, but the more desirable private groups (i.e. the ones in more desirable areas) tend to hire people from programs they are familiar with, which are often MD programs as these groups are often made up of a majority of MDs. This is obviously not hard and fast as it can depend on if you did a fellowship or not (fellowships are also harder to get from the DO programs than MD programs too), who you know, etc. But overall the trend is there.
The reason for this is, despite the merger, there is still a gap between the vast majority of DO surgery programs, minus a small handful, and even very low tier community traditionally MD programs. This gap is slowly closing, but it's still there.
As a DO, General Surgery is not like the surgical subs, in that matching a traditional MD program is still a reasonable goal. Now it will most likely be a community program, but there are also a fair amount of DO's in low-mid tier university programs as well. If your app is the average of a matched MD GS applicant then you have a good chance of matching an MD program. There are VERY few DO's in programs above mid-tier. Of the current Doximity "top 20" surgery programs (not a good ranking system but the closest thing we have) I think only U Washington, Emory, and UTSW have a DO, and I'm not sure how they got to UTSW or Emory because I know they didn't match there. Probably did a prelim and a spot opened up.
You are being realistic. They didn't get a SINGLE interview, not even from DO programs, which means they weren't a good candidate for ophtho. As someone who came into medical school knowing they wanted to be a surgeon and that goal never changed, even I think they are being delusional. There are other fields in medicine I could do and still lead a happy life if I somehow don't match surgery in 4 weeks. They seem unrealistic in how they view ophtho. Every field has cons.This is a tangent (so feel free to ignore) regarding the first post's OP. They say "I know in my heart I can't be anywhere near as happy in any other field."
-> How do they ascertain this w/o having gone through all the medical field, which is impossible without having a lifespan of 1000 yrs? Don't people typically pursue a speciality by balancing the pros/cons and determining what they can handle in the long run? I'd believe there are med fields similar to optho in lifestyle/patient population/work/admin stuff/etc but just lower in prestige and $... Someone help me understand the above logic
"I don't know if others share my belief, but I see it as that with whatever specialty you go into, you have gotta love it at its core and the bread and butter," "But if I can't live the life I want, then I don't know why I should."
-> Is this true? I've worked with sports ortho surgeons who get tired of what they do and hate a busy day at work. What I do know is that they do love the associated prestige, money, respect, culture, high % of positive pt outcomes, etc.
Someone help me understand those comments. Am I being too pessimistic/realistic/unpassionate? I'm an incoming med student btw.
Step 2, research, letters, class rank, etc. Honestly not too much changes as long as Step 2 is still scored.I'm curious, how do you think someone can be a competitive applicant with Step 1 going P/F? Research is the other thing I can think of, and it doesn't seem like most DO schools have research at the same level that MD schools do. So you pretty much need to come into school with research already done in your competitive specialty, or have really strong connections that will hook you up. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
In the competitive specialties even MD's travel around doing away rotations. That's the nature of competitive specialties.Or they would need to drive 2-3 hours+ for research/auditions.