Parents don't want me to matriculate DO - Advice?

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Yeah I understand there's always a few every year. But that doesn't mean the opportunities of DO == MD.

Another thought, does the quality of residencies differ? What do you guys feel about doing a GS residency in rural Kansas vs a major tertiary hospital in NYC? Sure a surgeon is a surgeon but how does that affect fellowships/opportunities down the line?
So like I said earlier, the answer is both yes and no for how it affects you, and it isn't black and white, there are varying degrees of how residencies differ across the spectrum. I'll speak directly to the surgical fields, mainly GS. If a program is ACGME accredited that means that it will give you the minimum requirements necessary to be a safe surgeon. Beyond that there is a large amount of variation in training programs.

Residency "prestige" really only matters if 1. you want to go into academics and try and climb the proverbial ivory tower, or 2. if you want pediatrics or surgical oncology. Both of those fields are small, and highly academic. For those specialties there is essentially the requirement to do 2 research years in residency. Now having said that, most university based academic programs put people in these specialties. Not a lot of people want these specialties. In my experience on the interview trail there is actually very little correlation between the prestige of a residency program and the actual quality of training. The vast majority of traditional ACGME community programs place people in all of the other fellowships on a consistent basis and don't close any doors. So no, it doesn't matter if you do GS residency in "rural" Kansas at KU Wichita compared to a major tertiary hospital in NYC. Honestly you probably will be more proficient at KU Wichita because of how much they operate and their autonomy. Personally, I am ranking some community and community hybrid programs above a number of traditional academic programs because of my career goals and the training at those places I feel is just better for what I want and where I want my career to go.

Now for the other side of the coin, community practice. Despite all protesting on SDN, going to a DO surgical program will hurt your job prospects somewhat. Now you will absolutely be able to get a job, probably one you like, but the more desirable private groups (i.e. the ones in more desirable areas) tend to hire people from programs they are familiar with, which are often MD programs as these groups are often made up of a majority of MDs. This is obviously not hard and fast as it can depend on if you did a fellowship or not (fellowships are also harder to get from the DO programs than MD programs too), who you know, etc. But overall the trend is there.

The reason for this is, despite the merger, there is still a gap between the vast majority of DO surgery programs, minus a small handful, and even very low tier community traditionally MD programs. This gap is slowly closing, but it's still there.

As a DO, General Surgery is not like the surgical subs, in that matching a traditional MD program is still a reasonable goal. Now it will most likely be a community program, but there are also a fair amount of DO's in low-mid tier university programs as well. If your app is the average of a matched MD GS applicant then you have a good chance of matching an MD program. There are VERY few DO's in programs above mid-tier. Of the current Doximity "top 20" surgery programs (not a good ranking system but the closest thing we have) I think only U Washington, Emory, and UTSW have a DO, and I'm not sure how they got to UTSW or Emory because I know they didn't match there. Probably did a prelim and a spot opened up.

This is a tangent (so feel free to ignore) regarding the first post's OP. They say "I know in my heart I can't be anywhere near as happy in any other field."
-> How do they ascertain this w/o having gone through all the medical field, which is impossible without having a lifespan of 1000 yrs? Don't people typically pursue a speciality by balancing the pros/cons and determining what they can handle in the long run? I'd believe there are med fields similar to optho in lifestyle/patient population/work/admin stuff/etc but just lower in prestige and $... Someone help me understand the above logic

"I don't know if others share my belief, but I see it as that with whatever specialty you go into, you have gotta love it at its core and the bread and butter," "But if I can't live the life I want, then I don't know why I should."
-> Is this true? I've worked with sports ortho surgeons who get tired of what they do and hate a busy day at work. What I do know is that they do love the associated prestige, money, respect, culture, high % of positive pt outcomes, etc.

Someone help me understand those comments. Am I being too pessimistic/realistic/unpassionate? I'm an incoming med student btw.
You are being realistic. They didn't get a SINGLE interview, not even from DO programs, which means they weren't a good candidate for ophtho. As someone who came into medical school knowing they wanted to be a surgeon and that goal never changed, even I think they are being delusional. There are other fields in medicine I could do and still lead a happy life if I somehow don't match surgery in 4 weeks. They seem unrealistic in how they view ophtho. Every field has cons.
I'm curious, how do you think someone can be a competitive applicant with Step 1 going P/F? Research is the other thing I can think of, and it doesn't seem like most DO schools have research at the same level that MD schools do. So you pretty much need to come into school with research already done in your competitive specialty, or have really strong connections that will hook you up. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Step 2, research, letters, class rank, etc. Honestly not too much changes as long as Step 2 is still scored.
Or they would need to drive 2-3 hours+ for research/auditions.
In the competitive specialties even MD's travel around doing away rotations. That's the nature of competitive specialties.

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And once again, OP I do think taking the DO acceptance is the best decision in your circumstances.
 
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If you are straight out of college, or even a few years older, you still have time. Retaking the MCAT is not bad at all, and if your scores improve, MD schools would look at that favorably. They would not care that you were accepted to a DO school and then denied them. Even DO schools wont care. As long as you pay the hefty fees and secondary costs, they will always look at you again as most DO's are private and as someone stated earlier, rely on marketing to lure students in.
All I'm saying is that yes, you can match competitive specialties as a DO, but it is harder, more time consuming and costly. Even if you say you have no idea what you want to do speciality wise, its a smart thing to keep all doors open for the future in case you do want to do something very competitive.
 
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So like I said earlier, the answer is both yes and no for how it affects you, and it isn't black and white, there are varying degrees of how residencies differ across the spectrum. I'll speak directly to the surgical fields, mainly GS. If a program is ACGME accredited that means that it will give you the minimum requirements necessary to be a safe surgeon. Beyond that there is a large amount of variation in training programs.

Residency "prestige" really only matters if 1. you want to go into academics and try and climb the proverbial ivory tower, or 2. if you want pediatrics or surgical oncology. Both of those fields are small, and highly academic. For those specialties there is essentially the requirement to do 2 research years in residency. Now having said that, most university based academic programs put people in these specialties. Not a lot of people want these specialties. In my experience on the interview trail there is actually very little correlation between the prestige of a residency program and the actual quality of training. The vast majority of traditional ACGME community programs place people in all of the other fellowships on a consistent basis and don't close any doors. So no, it doesn't matter if you do GS residency in "rural" Kansas at KU Wichita compared to a major tertiary hospital in NYC. Honestly you probably will be more proficient at KU Wichita because of how much they operate and their autonomy. Personally, I am ranking some community and community hybrid programs above a number of traditional academic programs because of my career goals and the training at those places I feel is just better for what I want and where I want my career to go.

Now for the other side of the coin, community practice. Despite all protesting on SDN, going to a DO surgical program will hurt your job prospects somewhat. Now you will absolutely be able to get a job, probably one you like, but the more desirable private groups (i.e. the ones in more desirable areas) tend to hire people from programs they are familiar with, which are often MD programs as these groups are often made up of a majority of MDs. This is obviously not hard and fast as it can depend on if you did a fellowship or not (fellowships are also harder to get from the DO programs than MD programs too), who you know, etc. But overall the trend is there.

The reason for this is, despite the merger, there is still a gap between the vast majority of DO surgery programs, minus a small handful, and even very low tier community traditionally MD programs. This gap is slowly closing, but it's still there.

As a DO, General Surgery is not like the surgical subs, in that matching a traditional MD program is still a reasonable goal. Now it will most likely be a community program, but there are also a fair amount of DO's in low-mid tier university programs as well. If your app is the average of a matched MD GS applicant then you have a good chance of matching an MD program. There are VERY few DO's in programs above mid-tier. Of the current Doximity "top 20" surgery programs (not a good ranking system but the closest thing we have) I think only U Washington, Emory, and UTSW have a DO, and I'm not sure how they got to UTSW or Emory because I know they didn't match there. Probably did a prelim and a spot opened up.


You are being realistic. They didn't get a SINGLE interview, not even from DO programs, which means they weren't a good candidate for ophtho. As someone who came into medical school knowing they wanted to be a surgeon and that goal never changed, even I think they are being delusional. There are other fields in medicine I could do and still lead a happy life if I somehow don't match surgery in 4 weeks. They seem unrealistic in how they view ophtho. Every field has cons.

Step 2, research, letters, class rank, etc. Honestly not too much changes as long as Step 2 is still scored.

In the competitive specialties even MD's travel around doing away rotations. That's the nature of competitive specialties.
I have followed @AnatomyGrey12 s journey for over a couple years now. I don't think there is a med student who has analyzed the match game more or has shared more on this board than he has. I would like to add a little texture to his remarks with regards to what he calls community hybrids and what I might call University affiliate programs. These are regional hospitals with university affiliation. We have 2 in our area that are excellent. One is a regional burn center, the other has all surgical subs. Both are level 1 trauma centers and have great regional reputations. If you think you are a great, or even just a competetive applicant for surgery residencies, I highly recommend seeking out some of these programs when considering your rank list. It may not be Duke, but they do have very good regional reputations which I believe can help in your career advancement.
 
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So like I said earlier, the answer is both yes and no for how it affects you, and it isn't black and white, there are varying degrees of how residencies differ across the spectrum. I'll speak directly to the surgical fields, mainly GS. If a program is ACGME accredited that means that it will give you the minimum requirements necessary to be a safe surgeon. Beyond that there is a large amount of variation in training programs.

Residency "prestige" really only matters if 1. you want to go into academics and try and climb the proverbial ivory tower, or 2. if you want pediatrics or surgical oncology. Both of those fields are small, and highly academic. For those specialties there is essentially the requirement to do 2 research years in residency. Now having said that, most university based academic programs put people in these specialties. Not a lot of people want these specialties. In my experience on the interview trail there is actually very little correlation between the prestige of a residency program and the actual quality of training. The vast majority of traditional ACGME community programs place people in all of the other fellowships on a consistent basis and don't close any doors. So no, it doesn't matter if you do GS residency in "rural" Kansas at KU Wichita compared to a major tertiary hospital in NYC. Honestly you probably will be more proficient at KU Wichita because of how much they operate and their autonomy. Personally, I am ranking some community and community hybrid programs above a number of traditional academic programs because of my career goals and the training at those places I feel is just better for what I want and where I want my career to go.

Now for the other side of the coin, community practice. Despite all protesting on SDN, going to a DO surgical program will hurt your job prospects somewhat. Now you will absolutely be able to get a job, probably one you like, but the more desirable private groups (i.e. the ones in more desirable areas) tend to hire people from programs they are familiar with, which are often MD programs as these groups are often made up of a majority of MDs. This is obviously not hard and fast as it can depend on if you did a fellowship or not (fellowships are also harder to get from the DO programs than MD programs too), who you know, etc. But overall the trend is there.

The reason for this is, despite the merger, there is still a gap between the vast majority of DO surgery programs, minus a small handful, and even very low tier community traditionally MD programs. This gap is slowly closing, but it's still there.

As a DO, General Surgery is not like the surgical subs, in that matching a traditional MD program is still a reasonable goal. Now it will most likely be a community program, but there are also a fair amount of DO's in low-mid tier university programs as well. If your app is the average of a matched MD GS applicant then you have a good chance of matching an MD program. There are VERY few DO's in programs above mid-tier. Of the current Doximity "top 20" surgery programs (not a good ranking system but the closest thing we have) I think only U Washington, Emory, and UTSW have a DO, and I'm not sure how they got to UTSW or Emory because I know they didn't match there. Probably did a prelim and a spot opened up.


You are being realistic. They didn't get a SINGLE interview, not even from DO programs, which means they weren't a good candidate for ophtho. As someone who came into medical school knowing they wanted to be a surgeon and that goal never changed, even I think they are being delusional. There are other fields in medicine I could do and still lead a happy life if I somehow don't match surgery in 4 weeks. They seem unrealistic in how they view ophtho. Every field has cons.

Step 2, research, letters, class rank, etc. Honestly not too much changes as long as Step 2 is still scored.

In the competitive specialties even MD's travel around doing away rotations. That's the nature of competitive specialties.
Wow thanks so much for this.

I do have some interest in academics but in the end it doesn't make a difference if I can't become a physician in the first place. I have taken the acceptance but I will try the MCAT one more time, more to satiate my imposter syndrome feelings if anything since I'm not proud of my 501. If I don't do significantly better, makes no difference in talking about all this anyways. Either way realistically I already know I won't do ortho/derm and I'm pretty open minded so I won't get locked up on an unrealistic specialty. Still worried a bit about the extra challenges of DO and less opportunities but better than not being a physician at all.
 
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I'm curious, how do you think someone can be a competitive applicant with Step 1 going P/F? Research is the other thing I can think of, and it doesn't seem like most DO schools have research at the same level that MD schools do. So you pretty much need to come into school with research already done in your competitive specialty, or have really strong connections that will hook you up. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
I disagree I have been able to find research as DO student fairly easily, you just have to be willing to say travel to an MD school nearby or work on a few of the projects that are happening at your school, but it can be done if you want to do it.. if you cold email enough MD school faculty and PI's one will take you on...
 
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OP in case it isn't already obvious, people are attacking you because you are complaining about A medical school acceptance. Med school is a competitive process, and beggars can't be choosers. Take your acceptance and laugh all the way to the bank.

/realtalk
/takeitorleaveit
 
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Long time lurker, first time poster here
🙂


A little about me: CA ORM, 3.7gpa, 501 MCAT, good EC/PS/LORs. Only applied DO, planned on reapplying MD + DO next cycle with an MCAT retake. I didn't plan on getting anything this cycle since I had a pretty low MCAT, but to my surprise I got 6 II so far. Recently heard back and got accepted to RVU.

Please don't take this post the wrong way. I am thrilled to be shown any luck at all. I think its a great school given it's match/pass rate history. Unfortunately, my parents don't like the idea that it's for profit (think it's just a corrupt business)/isn't MD (not many DOs in CA)/doesn't have an undergrad campus attached like many MD schools. They said I'll regret not having tried to apply for MD, and that if I work harder now it'll be easier in the future for whatever specialty I want. I guess they think since I had such luck this cycle that I can replicate it for MD again.

I am very interested in IM/EM, but considering gen surg. Parents want me to keep my specialty options open with MD. Guess the stigma that DO is easier to get into vs MD/for lower stat applicants/not a real doctor (??) still exists. Unfortunately, they are financially supporting me, so I kinda have to hear them out.

They want me to retake my MCAT and see how much better I can do. I think even if I do significantly better it's dumb to turn down an acceptance. I did not study much at all for the MCAT (life/covid got in the way) so I probably can do better, but it's kinda hard for me to realistically put the effort in when I already have an offer. Even if I do better I don't think it's worth wasting another year or more just for a CHANCE at a "better" MD school. (CA ORM and low stats not a good combo; plus I believe my "story" aligns much better with osteopathic medicine)

At this point Im going to waste thousands of dollars reapplying and a year of my life retaking the MCAT and getting LORs again just to prove a point that I'll likely get rejected from MD schools. They said "you'll never know until you try." Fair.

Anyone else had a similar situation? I've tried hours explaining everything I know about osteopathic medicine to no avail. Any DO students who didn't match into their desired specialty have any input? Any advice is appreciated.
Honestly, it seems like you're not even interested in reapplying. Why not just tell them that? You didn't take the MCAT seriously the first time around, you are already resigned to the fact that you won't get into an MD school, and trust me...no ones "story aligns much better with osteopathic medicine". It's a tough situation because it seems like you hold the conventional SDN view (which I agree with) that you should take this acceptance and go. That being said, actually studying for the MCAT could be a game changer for you and since its your parents though who fund you and there's likely cultural factors at play, it's not really as simple an option as it seems.

Talk to RVUCOM, see if they're willing to do a non-binding deference of your acceptance for a year. Seems like a stupid thing to ask for but if you don't ask, you'll never know. I know of some people who were offered this. If your GPA is good (>3.7 at a decent school) and you have a good application, I could see more DO acceptances down the line.

If RVUCOM says no and your GPA isn't great as well, you tell your parents you are going to take the acceptance because there is a low chance that you will get into medical school itself if you reapply. Exaggerate your lack of competitiveness and embellish how much harder the stakes get per year. Tiger parents are usually relying on information from 5-10 years ago when advising you. (Speaking about up to date, I forgot if schools will be able to see your acceptance, this is something I knew 5-10 years ago, but forgot).. Just tell them how wrong they are and how you're going to take the option and pay for it with your loan money and won't take theirs. Regardless of whether or not other schools will know, you can tell them that schools will know about the acceptance and hence you're basically committed to this acceptance now.
 
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OP in case it isn't already obvious, people are attacking you because you are complaining about A medical school acceptance. Med school is a competitive process, and beggars can't be choosers. Take your acceptance and laugh all the way to the bank.

/realtalk
/takeitorleaveit
Sure, thats understandable. It's the internet. If I have to sift through troll posts to get some good advice (ie from current DO students abt their experiences) I dont mind. I know there's people out there who would love to be in my shoes, but I'm just trying my best too.
 
OP in case it isn't already obvious, people are attacking you because you are complaining about A medical school acceptance. Med school is a competitive process, and beggars can't be choosers. Take your acceptance and laugh all the way to the bank.

/realtalk
/takeitorleaveit
TBH OP and his/her parents is being quite un-realistic, OP isn't sitting on a 3.8+ GPA and 510+ MCAT where they stand a realistic shot as an ORM at a MD school, especially in California, OP didn't even get an interview from say Touro or Western(DO schools) in Cali, if OP gives up his spot, and re-tries his MCAT there is about a 25% chance it will be lower than a 501, IF that happens OP is likely sunk at any MD program and likely many DO programs as well since he/she will be a re-applicant to DO schools. Also one very very important thing is that OP has to raise his/her MCAT not just a few points, he/she has to raise it about 10-15 points(from 501 to 510+), from my limited anecdotal evidence this is very very difficult to do even with the right test taking strategies... and a minimal score increase will do OP no good. As far as doing something competitive/academic medicine as a DO it can still be done. OP has to take the acceptance and run with it and work hard at RVU to achieve his/her goals in medicine.
 
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Sure, thats understandable. It's the internet. If I have to sift through troll posts to get some good advice (ie from current DO students abt their experiences) I dont mind. I know there's people out there who would love to be in my shoes, but I'm just trying my best too.
U are in the pre-med forum, so you are going to get a mix of pre-med responses, med student responses, and responses from people further along on this journey. If your point is that I offered you good advice--I agree. If your point is that I am a troll, you're wrong. If you have a different point, perhaps you should clarify.
 
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Wow thanks so much for this.

I do have some interest in academics but in the end it doesn't make a difference if I can't become a physician in the first place. I have taken the acceptance but I will try the MCAT one more time, more to satiate my imposter syndrome feelings if anything since I'm not proud of my 501. If I don't do significantly better, makes no difference in talking about all this anyways. Either way realistically I already know I won't do ortho/derm and I'm pretty open minded so I won't get locked up on an unrealistic specialty. Still worried a bit about the extra challenges of DO and less opportunities but better than not being a physician at all.

Don't forget that "academics" has a huge range to it, from adjunct clinical faculty at a community residency that works with 3rd year medical students and residents clinically, to 60% dedicated research, 20% teaching, and 20% clinical duties running a major lab at a massive academia ivory tower.

It is definitely possible to have an academic career, and even a research based career, from a DO school. As long as you plan accordingly and play the game correctly. @Angus Avagadro is 100% correct in describing this as a game. Matching is a game that if you play your cards right you will come out right where you want to be.
 
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Don't forget that "academics" has a huge range to it, from adjunct clinical faculty at a community residency that works with 3rd year medical students and residents clinically, to 60% dedicated research, 20% teaching, and 20% clinical duties running a major lab at a massive academia ivory tower.

It is definitely possible to have an academic career, and even a research based career, from a DO school. As long as you plan accordingly and play the game correctly. @Angus Avagadro is 100% correct in describing this as a game. Matching is a game that if you play your cards right you will come out right where you want to be.
Correct me if I am wrong, but aside from the very very top ivory towers, aren't academic jobs at mid and low tier schools and community residencies less desirable and pay less than the average job out in the community anyway?
 
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You've already been told this I'm sure.

But you take it and run. If you don't, no school will take you ever again.

If your parents care that much to sabotage what they don't understand, then they can pay you a physician's salary the rest of their lives because they owe you at least that, in addition to the ignorance behind not understanding why their child's 'MD' (let alone 'DO') medical career never took off and five years later, they don't get so much as another interview.

But hey. Their rotors are awhirring.
 
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Also, it's lovely that they want to help you and control you w money.

That said, worst case scenario, you do what 95% of us do and take the massive loans. It's better to do that have your career held hostage and most likely if they get their way, sabotaged.
 
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Correct me if I am wrong, but aside from the very very top ivory towers, aren't academic jobs at mid and low tier schools and community residencies less desirable and pay less than the average job out in the community anyway?

Yes, but direct pay is not the only variable when all's said and done. Academics has its perks too. They work reasonable hours with heavy resident assistance, never worry about malpractice insurance because these institutions usually settle aggressively, get many different travel opportunities, get to see the very newest of their field, etc. Add that to the fact that more and more people are earning the majority of their money from the stock market these days and I wouldn't be surprised if many opt for lower paying/academic jobs they enjoy over high volume private practice gigs where they're worked to death for maybe 30% more which then gets taxed more anyways.
 
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OP if your case was that you got a 501 after consistently getting 515 or so on practice exams, I would say maybe it would be worth a shot; but since we have no proof you can do significantly better on the MCAT, I'm not sure if you should risk losing an acceptance.


Summarized, there are disadvantages to DO schools still with regards to the match - particularly for surgery and its subspecialties. These can be overcome to some extent and AnatomyGrey12 has already made very insightful posts about it. But at some point you have to realize that if you give up this acceptance you're taking a huge risk. If the RVU match list looks good to you, take it and run. Also convince your parents you'll be good and definitely make them pay if they can - having loans sucks!
 
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Correct me if I am wrong, but aside from the very very top ivory towers, aren't academic jobs at mid and low tier schools and community residencies less desirable and pay less than the average job out in the community anyway?
Yes and no. Like was summarized above academia has its perks instead of just salary. But overall yes, it’s not super difficult to work in “academics” if that’s what someone wants to do
 
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Honestly, it seems like you're not even interested in reapplying. Why not just tell them that? You didn't take the MCAT seriously the first time around, you are already resigned to the fact that you won't get into an MD school, and trust me...no ones "story aligns much better with osteopathic medicine". It's a tough situation because it seems like you hold the conventional SDN view (which I agree with) that you should take this acceptance and go. That being said, actually studying for the MCAT could be a game changer for you and since its your parents though who fund you and there's likely cultural factors at play, it's not really as simple an option as it seems.

Talk to RVUCOM, see if they're willing to do a non-binding deference of your acceptance for a year. Seems like a stupid thing to ask for but if you don't ask, you'll never know. I know of some people who were offered this. If your GPA is good (>3.7 at a decent school) and you have a good application, I could see more DO acceptances down the line.

If RVUCOM says no and your GPA isn't great as well, you tell your parents you are going to take the acceptance because there is a low chance that you will get into medical school itself if you reapply. Exaggerate your lack of competitiveness and embellish how much harder the stakes get per year. Tiger parents are usually relying on information from 5-10 years ago when advising you. (Speaking about up to date, I forgot if schools will be able to see your acceptance, this is something I knew 5-10 years ago, but forgot).. Just tell them how wrong they are and how you're going to take the option and pay for it with your loan money and won't take theirs. Regardless of whether or not other schools will know, you can tell them that schools will know about the acceptance and hence you're basically committed to this acceptance now.
Thanks for understanding, it 100% is cultural factors here. I may consider deferring IF I do decide to reapply, but obviously I wouldn't want them to rescind without another acceptance.

TBH OP and his/her parents is being quite un-realistic, OP isn't sitting on a 3.8+ GPA and 510+ MCAT where they stand a realistic shot as an ORM at a MD school, especially in California, OP didn't even get an interview from say Touro or Western(DO schools) in Cali, if OP gives up his spot, and re-tries his MCAT there is about a 25% chance it will be lower than a 501, IF that happens OP is likely sunk at any MD program and likely many DO programs as well since he/she will be a re-applicant to DO schools. Also one very very important thing is that OP has to raise his/her MCAT not just a few points, he/she has to raise it about 10-15 points(from 501 to 510+), from my limited anecdotal evidence this is very very difficult to do even with the right test taking strategies... and a minimal score increase will do OP no good. As far as doing something competitive/academic medicine as a DO it can still be done. OP has to take the acceptance and run with it and work hard at RVU to achieve his/her goals in medicine.
I agree, I think I can do better, but it's all empty words until I have the score in my hands. I am interviewing at Western (Touro screened me out), which I would 100% attend. Some of the problems I mentioned in the thread are RVU specific, not just MD vs DO.

U are in the pre-med forum, so you are going to get a mix of pre-med responses, med student responses, and responses from people further along on this journey. If your point is that I offered you good advice--I agree. If your point is that I am a troll, you're wrong. If you have a different point, perhaps you should clarify.
I meant generally. I'm thankful for all you responses. It's obviously cultural issue with my parents (evidently same issues with other CA ORMs that have posted on this thread), so some posts/DMs telling me to block my parents aren't very helpful.
 
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I agree, I think I can do better, but it's all empty words until I have the score in my hands. I am interviewing at Western (Touro screened me out), which I would 100% attend. Some of the problems I mentioned in the thread are RVU specific, not just MD vs DO.
What’s the deal with RVU? I thought it was a decent school. Thier match list is pretty solid, they had like 16 GS matches, and ortho, optho, and uro, many of them to traditionally acgme places.
 
I am not sure if anyone has mentioned this either, but certainly consider that the future for applications in uncertain. Med school applications skyrocketed in the year of COVID, and you may end up shooting yourself in the foot if for whatever reason you decide to not take the acceptance. Applications very well may end up being increased for the next several years due to the perceived safety of some of these careers in times of "shutdowns" etc.
 
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You've already been told this I'm sure.

But you take it and run. If you don't, no school will take you ever again.

If your parents care that much to sabotage what they don't understand, then they can pay you a physician's salary the rest of their lives because they owe you at least that, in addition to the ignorance behind not understanding why their child's 'MD' (let alone 'DO') medical career never took off and five years later, they don't get so much as another interview.

But hey. Their rotors are awhirring.
Is it though? Seems like there are already a bunch of people in this thread who have rejected DO and got into MD/other DO schools. Maybe its the exception but it does happen. Especially because AACOMAS isn't as robust of a system as AMCAS that reports to all other schools.

I'm not disagreeing with you though, I'm just thinking about the alternative. My parents are ignorant about the process and I will take the acceptance. I mentioned this earlier but part of the reason stems from RVU being for profit, which has its own stigmas. I am interviewing at a few other schools less controversial, and we will see where it goes.
 
I agree, I think I can do better, but it's all empty words until I have the score in my hands. I am interviewing at Western (Touro screened me out), which I would 100% attend. Some of the problems I mentioned in the thread are RVU specific, not just MD vs DO.
What’s the deal with RVU? I thought it was a decent school. Thier match list is pretty solid, they had like 16 GS matches, and ortho, optho, and uro, many of them to traditionally acgme places.
Maybe I'm overthinking but a few concerns, and echoed by current students who say don't come here. For profit status has some concerns about where tuition is going to. Denver,CO high COL. Not as established as a school compared to older schools, not much research/bad relationship with CU nearby. High Step scores but pass fail now, not sure how that'll change match. Purchased by medforth, concerns about relationship with SGU (advertising SGU to RVU rejects, wtf?) Dean recently left.

Yes I know other schools aren't much better either but I'm just saying these are some more reasons my parents aren't supportive of RVU.
 
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Did goro tell you their piece yet on RVU? Probably could help a little, at least.

Edit: I just saw their opinions in the beginning. Welp lol. Sry.
 
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Correct me if I am wrong, but aside from the very very top ivory towers, aren't academic jobs at mid and low tier schools and community residencies less desirable and pay less than the average job out in the community anyway?
Academics always pay less than the private job market. Academics used to have dedicated research days, now those are very hard to arrange. You are expected to carry a brisk clinical load AND do research/teaching. Academics is a good place to be while taking boards and getting board certified. You can build your CV and then negotiate a better academic or private practice job after getting boarded.
 
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Academics always pay less than the private job market. Academics used to have dedicated research days, now those are very hard to arrange. You are expected to carry a brisk clinical load AND do research/teaching. Academics is a good place to be while taking boards and getting board certified. You can build your CV and then negotiate a better academic or private practice job after getting boarded.
Yeah somehow that sounds like the dream job for me. Clinical + Research + teaching. I don't mind less pay. Understandably makes sense that DOs would selfprefer to go into practice instead, but how difficult is it for a DO to find a position at a decent medical school? (Not T50, but a decent MD school? How abt DO schools?) Does MD vs DO make a big difference in this regard?
 
Yeah somehow that sounds like the dream job for me. Clinical + Research + teaching. I don't mind less pay. Understandably makes sense that DOs would selfprefer to go into practice instead, but how difficult is it for a DO to find a position at a decent medical school? (Not T50, but a decent MD school? How abt DO schools?) Does MD vs DO make a big difference in this regard?
Degree, no. But it does matter where you do residency.
 
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It is certainly doable. I did my fellowship at a top 20 university and was later on their full time academic staff. I was the 2nd DO to be on staff at their university hospital. That was many years ago when DO bias was greater. Look at the faculty directory at May Rochester, several DOs on staff. Many more at Mayo Jax. I have a student at the #1 Anesthesiology residency in the country. Just look at faculty and residents rosters at universities. Most have DOs on faculty. It's all up to you and how you take advantage of your opportunities. You can say it's too hard and I'm fighting a rising tide, or you can put a chip on your shoulder and become a better doctor on staff at a university program. It's just a matter of how bad you want it.
 
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Really? There are 5 MD schools/residencies within driving distance of me and every single one told me that they are not taking outside students due to COVID. I have emailed many more than that but those are the ones that are nearby.

Yes, our residency hospital is doing the same. It’s great advice for outside of covid times but alas not during
 
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I am not sure if anyone has mentioned this either, but certainly consider that the future for applications in uncertain. Med school applications skyrocketed in the year of COVID, and you may end up shooting yourself in the foot if for whatever reason you decide to not take the acceptance. Applications very well may end up being increased for the next several years due to the perceived safety of some of these careers in times of "shutdowns" etc.

They did not skyrocket. They are on par with what is the expected yearly increase. This notion was spurred by a lazy journalism from namely this article:

.

I've trashed the article before and the reason I have such an issue with it is because I think it belittles the amount of dedication required to get to medical school and it's not as if thousands are lining up during a pandemic to go through 4 years of medical school and 6 years of post-graduate training to earn $200K as an ID physician. If there is such a thing as the Fauci effect, it would not be in play immediately. Kids in middle school+ would be the ones inspired. I will say that in general stakes get higher every year and with OP there are a few things to consider:

1.) If RVUCOM does not allow him to defer an acceptance and he has to reject it, will other Osteopathic schools see this? It could be a huge red flag during the reapplication IMO at most DO schools. OP this is definitely a reasoning point for your parents. Most of them while DO averse are also risk averse.

2.) If OP defers for a year, he's going to have to give an explanation for what he did that year that is translatable to the field. Preparing for the MCAT is not going to be a good answer.
 
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OP, I'm from CA and I know the ins and outs of apps of multiple friends who recently got into top, mid and low-tier MD schools. I myself got into DO schools only this cycle. If you want to know specific mcat/gpa/activity/pubs/LOR differences between my friends and myself, i.e. those who got into MD schools vs DO only, feel free to pm. All of us went to the same CA school, so maybe you can relate, and perhaps it'll give you insight into whether or not your md dream is realistic with a better mcat score
 
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OP, something I just thought of when it comes to parents obsessed with "prestige". Are your parents aware that both President Biden's, as well as President Trump's, official White House Physicians hold the DO degree? Are your parents aware that the current NASA chief medical officer holds the DO degree?

None of these things matter remotely to me or anyone I know, but to the older generation of parents, perhaps this information could help them see DO physicians in a different light.
 
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I was in a similar situation to you (except my parents didn't care about MD vs DO, only I did) and ultimately decided to take the DO acceptance. There were just too many variables for it to be worth it... I was pretty confident I could do better on the MCAT, but what if I didn't? What if I had a bad day and scored worse? Or only one or two points higher? What if I did much better on the MCAT and still didn't get accepted to MD? That's entirely possible. What if I don't do well in medical school or on boards? Then even if I am at an MD school, many specialties will be out of reach and the extra year of studying I did would have been for nothing.

I am nowhere near the match yet so maybe it is too early for me to be saying this, but I don't regret my decision so far. I will probably end up FM or IM regardless of whether I am at an MD or DO (and I would be fine with that), and if I had to spend another gap year studying basic science for the MCAT, I would have just picked a different career.

An MCAT of 501 is pretty low. To get to the MD average, especially for ORM, you're going to have to make a huge improvement which honestly may not even be possible. I have also heard that many schools average MCAT scores, which would end badly for you even if you did improve your score. And I do think I was asked on applications if I had ever been accepted to medical school before, so it is possible that schools would hold turning down a DO acceptance against you (though most MD schools probably won't). If I am being honest, your situation is worse than mine was, and even I took the DO acceptance.

Medical school only gets more and more competitive each year, and if I had to guess, I don't think you will get accepted to an MD school next cycle (not trying to be insulting, just my opinion). Unless you really cannot see yourself doing anything but a competitive specialty, then I would take the DO acceptance.
 
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I was in a similar situation to you (except my parents didn't care about MD vs DO, only I did) and ultimately decided to take the DO acceptance. There were just too many variables for it to be worth it... I was pretty confident I could do better on the MCAT, but what if I didn't? What if I had a bad day and scored worse? Or only one or two points higher? What if I did much better on the MCAT and still didn't get accepted to MD? That's entirely possible. What if I don't do well in medical school or on boards? Then even if I am at an MD school, many specialties will be out of reach and the extra year of studying I did would have been for nothing.

I am nowhere near the match yet so maybe it is too early for me to be saying this, but I don't regret my decision so far. I will probably end up FM or IM regardless of whether I am at an MD or DO (and I would be fine with that), and if I had to spend another gap year studying basic science for the MCAT, I would have just picked a different career.

An MCAT of 501 is pretty low. To get to the MD average, especially for ORM, you're going to have to make a huge improvement which honestly may not even be possible. I have also heard that many schools average MCAT scores, which would end badly for you even if you did improve your score. And I do think I was asked on applications if I had ever been accepted to medical school before, so it is possible that schools would hold turning down a DO acceptance against you (though most MD schools probably won't). If I am being honest, your situation is worse than mine was, and even I took the DO acceptance.

Medical school only gets more and more competitive each year, and if I had to guess, I don't think you will get accepted to an MD school next cycle (not trying to be insulting, just my opinion). Unless you really cannot see yourself doing anything but a competitive specialty, then I would take the DO acceptance.
To add to this, even if someone was hell-bent on being a neuro or plastic surgeon, there is absolutely no guarantee that they would get there just because they are at a USMD school. With a 501 mcat, OP is unlikely to score the 250+ on step 2 likely needed to stand a shot at those specialties(or something similarly competitive). You cant go to med school thinking you will be one of the unicorns in medicine(There is I think less than 400 or so combined spots for neurosurgery and plastic surgery with around 14-15,000 first year USMD and DO students for perspective).
 
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