Parents don't want me to matriculate DO - Advice?

[theendisnigh]

Thank you. Perhaps 7 years isn't worth it, but maybe one year is.

My MCAT got delayed due to COVID so I got my scores back 90% into the application cycle. Then again, if someone told me "There's no point trying with a 501," I wouldn't have gotten 7 IIs. I took a risk and it worked out.

Grew up in a conservative ORM family in a very competitive area of CA. Sadly this type of parenting is considered normal with everyone I know.

It boggles my mind the expectations of some families. Your family is threatening their financial support because you got into one medical school instead of the other? What kind of expectations are those?!?! My mom was ecstatic I was the first one to finish college.

Parent expectations can be high for their kids, but expectations on medical schools is overkill. DO/MD, they're both doctors. Your parents are gonna have to deal with complaining in these words "oh I'm so disappointed, my child got into an osteopathic medical school instead of an allopathic, woe is us".

Any place you applied to, you should have felt comfortable going to by reading up prior. You went to all the work filling out the AACOMAS with a probable outcome of going to one of the DO schools you applied to. Congratulations on being one of the few to get accepted this amazingly competitive year. You are going to be a doctor, with a real chance still as a DO of getting into general surgery.

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[Ho0v-man]

Just chiming in to say that I think most schools slant toward PC bc of student interest more than anything else. Most of these people also have internet access and have the common sense to know that there’s limitations to the degree. But if you’re goal is PC then it’s reasonable to not want to waste time trying to get MD.

The few who truly get “trapped” in PC would be even if their initials were different. Except for the Uber competitive specialties, the degree affects the quality of your match more than the actual field you end up in.

 

[lovefood]

Hi, I was in your position a while ago. Was a CA native and had mediocre or what would be considered sub-par stats for CA allopathic. I ended up going to a DO school and I do feel like there were more hurdles to overcome in terms of specialty matching and then even more so subspecialty matching. In my opinion there was certainly some stigma assoc with trying to match gen surg and then surgical specialty as a DO, and that stigma has followed me throughout my career. I felt like I had to do better than my allopathic counterparts to be considered even as an equal. For reference, I did gen surg and then did colorectal surgery fellowship after. Just my personal experience. You have to decide what's more important to you.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Hi, I was in your position a while ago. Was a CA native and had mediocre or what would be considered sub-par stats for CA allopathic. I ended up going to a DO school and I do feel like there were more hurdles to overcome in terms of specialty matching and then even more so subspecialty matching. In my opinion there was certainly some stigma assoc with trying to match gen surg and then surgical specialty as a DO, and that stigma has followed me throughout my career. I felt like I had to do better than my allopathic counterparts to be considered even as an equal. For reference, I did gen surg and then did colorectal surgery fellowship after. Just my personal experience. You have to decide what's more important to you.

I went through the same thing, only years before you when the DO stigma was worse, but residencies more plentiful, due to fewer applicants. The stigma you refer to exists, and actually made me a better doctor. It caused me to have a little bit of a chip on my shoulder and be unwilling to confirm anyone's suspicions about my training and abilities. So obviously I stayed later, read more during residency, fellowship, and as a junior attending. Respect from colleagues soon followed. I think you have given OP great advice. They have made decisions without being truly informed or possibly honest with themselves imo. Now they are conflicted. This is called tuition in the school of life . Only they can now make the best choice for themselves.

 

[estes8000]

I'v enjoyed reading this thread. One of my Professors, the late, great, neuro-ophthalmologist J. Lawton Smith once said to me: "all Family Medicine doctors are specialists. They specialize in the skin and its contents".....

 

[zNoodlez]

With COMLEX and Step 1 are both P/F now, who knows how the scale of competitiveness will lean for DO classes post 2023. I would retake the MCAT and reapply if you would like to maximize your chances with GS or keep more doors open.

 

[GwBXtRTrVktW9E]

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[deleted1085928]

Long time lurker, first time poster here

A little about me: CA ORM, 3.7gpa, 501 MCAT, good EC/PS/LORs. Only applied DO, planned on reapplying MD + DO next cycle with an MCAT retake. I didn't plan on getting anything this cycle since I had a pretty low MCAT, but to my surprise I got 6 II so far. Recently heard back and got accepted to RVU.

Please don't take this post the wrong way. I am thrilled to be shown any luck at all. I think its a great school given it's match/pass rate history. Unfortunately, my parents don't like the idea that it's for profit (think it's just a corrupt business)/isn't MD (not many DOs in CA)/doesn't have an undergrad campus attached like many MD schools. They said I'll regret not having tried to apply for MD, and that if I work harder now it'll be easier in the future for whatever specialty I want. I guess they think since I had such luck this cycle that I can replicate it for MD again.

I am very interested in IM/EM, but considering gen surg. Parents want me to keep my specialty options open with MD. Guess the stigma that DO is easier to get into vs MD/for lower stat applicants/not a real doctor (??) still exists. Unfortunately, they are financially supporting me, so I kinda have to hear them out.

They want me to retake my MCAT and see how much better I can do. I think even if I do significantly better it's dumb to turn down an acceptance. I did not study much at all for the MCAT (life/covid got in the way) so I probably can do better, but it's kinda hard for me to realistically put the effort in when I already have an offer. Even if I do better I don't think it's worth wasting another year or more just for a CHANCE at a "better" MD school. (CA ORM and low stats not a good combo; plus I believe my "story" aligns much better with osteopathic medicine)

At this point Im going to waste thousands of dollars reapplying and a year of my life retaking the MCAT and getting LORs again just to prove a point that I'll likely get rejected from MD schools. They said "you'll never know until you try." Fair.

Anyone else had a similar situation? I've tried hours explaining everything I know about osteopathic medicine to no avail. Any DO students who didn't match into their desired specialty have any input? Any advice is appreciated.

Do you want to be your own doctor, or did you want to be their doctor? Ask yourself: why am I compromising a big decision that's mine to make?

 

[DoctorWhere]

Good advice already given in this thread IMO. Just curious: did you discuss with your parents before applying DO? Seems like it would have been a better discussion before applying/interviewing if their opinion is/was so important to you.

 

[GwBXtRTrVktW9E]

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[deleted1082375]

You don’t belong as a physician if you turn down those acceptances.

sorry to be harsh but if you’re gonna **** on DOs this early on, I wouldn’t want to work with you.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

You don’t belong as a physician if you turn down those acceptances.

Lmao. Yeah ok

 

[GwBXtRTrVktW9E]

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[Goro]

This is you right? Admitting that DO school semesters are steaming piles of trash?

View attachment 330820

To be fair, in the pages of sdn I have seen tons of MD students post almost exactly the same thing!

He was also complaining about his semester being trash, not his school

 

[deleted1082375]

This is you right? Admitting that DO school semesters are steaming piles of trash?

View attachment 330820

You okay over there? Seems like you’re just looking to fight for funsies. Not a good look.

And my friends at MD programs have complained about the same exact thing.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

You okay over there? Seems like you’re just looking to fight for funsies. Not a good look.

And my friends at MD programs have complained about the same exact thing.

Medicine is a job. Nothing more, nothing less. If someone has concerns over how a DO degree is going to impact their life and career those are 100% valid. Turning down a DO acceptance is a valid decision in many scenarios.

Pretending that somehow makes OP unfit for medicine is, quite frankly, immature.

 

[deleted1082375]

Medicine is a job. Nothing more, nothing less. If someone has concerns over how a DO degree is going to impact their life and career those are 100% valid. Turning down a DO acceptance is a valid decision in many scenarios.

Pretending that somehow makes OP unfit for medicine is, quite frankly, immature.

Have fun in your echo chamber.

 

[deleted1082375]

There's a difference between bashing a profession and highlighting the obvious limitations that come with it.

Damn this thread is sad.

good luck, OP. I hope you don’t let your parents ruin your life and your chance to become a doctor. Mine ran mine for a long time and it ruined me. Getting the hell away is sometimes the best thing you can do to save yourself. I’d take the acceptance and not look back.

 

[DO2015CA]

Have fun in your echo chamber.

I’m a pretty level headed person regarding DOs but I still agree with him. Being a physician is a job. If the job (specialty) you want becomes hard enough that you decide it’s not worth it then that’s a personal choice. It’s a valid viewpoint. It’s not that person ****ting on DOs specifically. I

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Have fun in your echo chamber.

That’s cool.

In case you didn’t notice I actually suggested OP take the acceptance. I also had a wildly successful application cycle to one of the more competitive specialties OP is considering. But you do you. Good luck with boards.

 

[MDFUTURE123]

As a DO student, I can tell you the following:

1. You don't want to be in the situation of being stuck at a DO school and then realizing you want to do a competitive specialty and realizing your school has absolutely no resources to help you with anything after you finish M2. Legitimately, nobody knows what's going on in M3 and M4. Clinical coordinators can't even reply to emails.
2. The great equalizer of MDs and DOs, Step 1, is going P/F. You will now have even less to set yourself apart from MD applicants, who also btw have their schools behind them, deans who can make calls for you, and resources to help you match. DO schools are not generally highly regarded in terms of reputation. Most DO schools lack research opportunities for their applicants; you will be forced to rely on cold emailing and cold calling labs, but please ask me how successful that's been in the era of COVID ("Oh, we aren't accepting outside students at this time!")
3. Building on the last point, as someone who graduates as a DO, there is a ceiling you will hit. You will scroll though residency rosters and see that some programs will take MDs, even IMGs, but they will never touch DOs. I'm not saying that you can't match into something, just realize that with the two letters after your name, certain doors will be closed to you.
4. Finally, you will have to take two sets of board exams. Double the cost. And, you will have to learn OMM, wasting your time throughout the school year on these OMM practicals that ask you to regurgitate these techniques that don't even work. It's an extra hassle that will waste your time, especially when you've got an actual test to study for but they force you to go waste 2 hours in OMM lab the day before.
5. The MCAT is a test. You can improve your scores on a test with hard work and dedicated studying. You don't mention your science GPA but a 3.70 is pretty damn good.

I would strongly advise you to reconsider your decision. Please PM me if you have further questions.

As a DO student, I agree with this. Even attending a lower tier MD school still vastly opens more doors than a higher tier DO school. Retaking the MCAT and reapplying may seem like a burden right now, but I promise it will save you from some of the disadvantages in the near future while in school and in your career.

 

[GwBXtRTrVktW9E]

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[Osminog]

You made two serious blunders: (1) you took the MCAT without preparing seriously for it, and (2) you applied to DO schools without knowing with certainty that you would want to attend one over reapplying next cycle.

Since you’re an Asian applicant from California, your low MCAT attempt (paired with your not-outstanding GPA) would likely sink your MD application, even if you were to improve on your second attempt. And since you applied to a bunch of DO schools this cycle, you would be a re-applicant during the next DO cycle; your chances of admission would be drastically reduced at the DO schools that previously accepted you or sent you II’s that you declined.

Given your current situation, you should probably matriculate into one of the DO schools that admitted you this cycle. Consider OMM, mediocre rotations, extra board exams, stigma, worse match outcomes, etc., to be the price you’ll have to pay to become a physician after your past missteps.

 

[jhmmd]

You made two serious blunders: (1) you took the MCAT without preparing seriously for it, and (2) you applied to DO schools without knowing with certainty that you would want to attend one over reapplying next cycle.

Since you’re an Asian applicant from California, your low MCAT attempt (paired with your not-outstanding GPA) would likely sink your MD application, even if you were to improve on your second attempt. And since you applied to a bunch of DO schools this cycle, you would be a re-applicant during the next DO cycle; your chances of admission would be drastically reduced at the DO schools that previously accepted you or sent you II’s that you declined.

Given your current situation, you should probably matriculate into one of the DO schools that admitted you this cycle. Consider OMM, mediocre rotations, extra board exams, stigma, worse match outcomes, etc., to be the price you’ll have to pay to become a physician after your past missteps.

Like has been said 1,000x on this forum--there really aren't that many differences between M.D. and D.O. degrees these days.
D.O. is way better than a degree from the Carribbean cuz you are guaranteed U.S. rotations.
At the end of the day, you will still be a doctor (if that is your dream) and you will have that to be proud of.

Long time lurker, first time poster here

A little about me: CA ORM, 3.7gpa, 501 MCAT, good EC/PS/LORs. Only applied DO, planned on reapplying MD + DO next cycle with an MCAT retake. I didn't plan on getting anything this cycle since I had a pretty low MCAT, but to my surprise I got 6 II so far. Recently heard back and got accepted to RVU.

Please don't take this post the wrong way. I am thrilled to be shown any luck at all. I think its a great school given it's match/pass rate history. Unfortunately, my parents don't like the idea that it's for profit (think it's just a corrupt business)/isn't MD (not many DOs in CA)/doesn't have an undergrad campus attached like many MD schools. They said I'll regret not having tried to apply for MD, and that if I work harder now it'll be easier in the future for whatever specialty I want. I guess they think since I had such luck this cycle that I can replicate it for MD again.

I am very interested in IM/EM, but considering gen surg. Parents want me to keep my specialty options open with MD. Guess the stigma that DO is easier to get into vs MD/for lower stat applicants/not a real doctor (??) still exists. Unfortunately, they are financially supporting me, so I kinda have to hear them out.

They want me to retake my MCAT and see how much better I can do. I think even if I do significantly better it's dumb to turn down an acceptance. I did not study much at all for the MCAT (life/covid got in the way) so I probably can do better, but it's kinda hard for me to realistically put the effort in when I already have an offer. Even if I do better I don't think it's worth wasting another year or more just for a CHANCE at a "better" MD school. (CA ORM and low stats not a good combo; plus I believe my "story" aligns much better with osteopathic medicine)

At this point Im going to waste thousands of dollars reapplying and a year of my life retaking the MCAT and getting LORs again just to prove a point that I'll likely get rejected from MD schools. They said "you'll never know until you try." Fair.

Anyone else had a similar situation? I've tried hours explaining everything I know about osteopathic medicine to no avail. Any DO students who didn't match into their desired specialty have any input? Any advice is appreciated.

You will have to weigh how important it is to you to match into your top specialty choice vs. how valuable it is to simply just become a doctor. I'd pick the latter...but you know.

 

[Goro]

Lmao. Mine actually suggested I go Caribbean until I explained to them why it's a non-option. They don't really know the differences between MD and DO and they're very supportive and are fine with me going into any career. I'm sorry you've had a rough relationship with your parents but please don't think everyone's situation is exactly like yours.



My friends at MD programs have complained about a lot of things. One wants to drop out (at a true P/F school) because he realized he hates the grind. However, I would bet a higher proportion of MD students are content with their programs than DO. Most MD students I've talked to aren't aware of the extra bs that DOs have to go through and at the end of the day, even the worst MD student has more opportunities than an average to above-avg DO student. Not to mention remediation policies are much more student-friendly at many MD programs because the school can get them a residency spot while DO schools (especially newer programs) are more likely to kick students to maximize their match rates.

Just look at the fiasco with California North state (for-profit and recruited their inaugural class outside of AMCAS and payments via Paypal) and their match list still blows every DO school out of the water.

CNUs match list is equivalent to a mediocre DO school..

And for the rest of you, stop making this a DO vs MD flame war

 

[Goro]

Which mediocre DO school matches 5% (3/57) of their class into FM and 21% (12/57) into IM (assuming more will do fellowship than your average DO school)? Let alone matching into UCLA, Walter Reed, UMich, UCSD, Columbia, and Kaiser.

2019-Match-Results.pdf (cnsu.edu)

I suspect 2020 is even better and will be looking forward to 2021's list.

My school and others matched just as well, if not better

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Which mediocre DO school matches 5% (3/57) of their class into FM and 21% (12/57) into IM (assuming more will do fellowship than your average DO school)? Let alone matching into UCLA, Walter Reed, UMich, UCSD, Columbia, and Kaiser.

2019-Match-Results.pdf (cnsu.edu)

I suspect 2020 is even better and will be looking forward to 2021's list.

EDIT: Here's 2020

Completely off topic but as far as MD match lists go it’s pretty weak.

 

[DO2015CA]

My school and others matched just as well, if not better

As much as I despise the morals of that school, I think they are going to match better as they get more and more established. Just goes to show USMD>>>USDO for matching purposes. When even great DO schools with great support are treated less than

 

[DO2015CA]

Completely off topic but as far as MD match lists go it’s pretty weak.

Yes but I have a suspicion it will keep rising.

 

[Goro]

Yes, but you said "equivalent to a mediocre school". Schools with similar match lists include top schools like PCOM, KCU, MSU, DMU, and TCOM to name a few but they still have a harder time matching back on the west coast - which any student would jump at the chance.

Ok, but we have hijacked the op enough.

 

[Jack Donaghy]

You can match anywhere with a killer Step 1 (or Step 2 CK, in your case). Hell, someone posted LUCOM match list a couple months ago and I thought I remembered reading like ortho, derm, uro and neurosurg on there.

At LUCOM.

If that doesn't motivate you to realizing you can do what you want even as a DO, I dunno what will

 

[ymmvdo]

You can match anywhere with a killer Step 1 (or Step 2 CK, in your case). Hell, someone posted LUCOM match list a couple months ago and I thought I remembered reading like ortho, derm, uro and neurosurg on there.

At LUCOM.

If that doesn't motivate you to realizing you can do what you want even as a DO, I dunno what will

Yeah I understand there's always a few every year. But that doesn't mean the opportunities of DO == MD.

Another thought, does the quality of residencies differ? What do you guys feel about doing a GS residency in rural Kansas vs a major tertiary hospital in NYC? Sure a surgeon is a surgeon but how does that affect fellowships/opportunities down the line?

 

[jhmmd]

Yeah I understand there's always a few every year. But that doesn't mean the opportunities of DO == MD.

Another thought, does the quality of residencies differ? What do you guys feel about doing a GS residency in rural Kansas vs a major tertiary hospital in NYC? Sure a surgeon is a surgeon but how does that affect fellowships/opportunities down the line?

You can't plan it out that far in advance. Just gotta do your best, put your nose to the grindstone, and try to stop comparing yourself to the others around you.

 

[Jack Donaghy]

Yeah I understand there's always a few every year. But that doesn't mean the opportunities of DO == MD.

Another thought, does the quality of residencies differ? What do you guys feel about doing a GS residency in rural Kansas vs a major tertiary hospital in NYC? Sure a surgeon is a surgeon but how does that affect fellowships/opportunities down the line?

Idk bro I'm doing FM in the boonies lol. Prestige is just a weird word I read about online but means nothing to my day-to-day life.

BUT, my point was just what you said. There's ALWAYS a few killer matches each year. Obv that can be you if you work hard enough / even want that.

I used to care about gunning for things but then 3rd year came and really beat me down, and then my FM preceptor at the end of 3rd year showed me his investing portfolio and yearly income sheets and I was like uhhhh yeah I'll go ahead and slide into 500k a year myself as well, thanks.

 

[ymmvdo]

You can't plan it out that far in advance. Just gotta do your best, put your nose to the grindstone, and try to stop comparing yourself to the others around you.

I'm just looking for more information to help make a decision that might impact my entire career....
What's wrong with planning ahead?

 

[jhmmd]

I'm just looking for more information to help make a decision that might impact my entire career....
What's wrong with planning ahead?

 

[Jack Donaghy]

I'm just looking for more information to help make a decision that might impact my entire career....
What's wrong with planning ahead?

Despite some naysayers, I don't think there's anything wrong with planning ahead. One dude at my school knew exactly what specialty and even which specific ivory tower he wanted to end up at from day 1. He ended up scoring like >270 on Step 1 and did indeed end up in that specialty at that institution.

Now, he was a hermit who made no friends but hey, his plan worked I guess

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Yeah I understand there's always a few every year. But that doesn't mean the opportunities of DO == MD.

Another thought, does the quality of residencies differ? What do you guys feel about doing a GS residency in rural Kansas vs a major tertiary hospital in NYC? Sure a surgeon is a surgeon but how does that affect fellowships/opportunities down the line?

You can PM me if you want. I’ll make a post about this later on when I have more time here as well. The answer is yes and no.

 

[Yankee845]

My parents are the same way (in preferring MD schools and paying for my tuition/COL). They generally want what is best for you. Are they physicians themselves? If not, maybe try to see if you can educate them on the fact that DOs have full practicing privileges, career opportunities, etc.

This is no doubt a tough situation to be in. I would probably take the DO acceptance if I were you, but I get that it might not be feasible without your parents being on board.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

I'm just looking for more information to help make a decision that might impact my entire career....
What's wrong with planning ahead?

Ok, better late than never for planning ahead. I think @Osminog was spot on, Attached below is the DO match results from 2020. Note the overall match rate for their preferred specialty was 86.6%. So the doom and gloom is not nearly as bad as suggested. Over half the applicants matched ENT or Vascular, 2 very competitive specialties. 2 out of 3 matched General Surgery, Othopaedic Surgery, and Interventional Radiology, 3 very difficult specialties to match. Outside of Neurosurg and Plastics, the great majority matched their specialty of choice. So if you think you are, or can be an ELITE med student, then take that gap year. Realistically, if you read my earlier post, that is a tough pack to run with. If you do your residency at an ACGME accredited residency, you are board eligible. Pass your specialty boards, and that's it. You get paid as much as the folks from Top 10 programs. Same for fellowships. Ok, so you didn't get into Harvard. You didn't do your GI fellowship at the Cleveland Clinic with Dr. Crohn. If your are fellowship trained and board eligible/certified, you are good to go. The training, like med school is what you make it. Your school is not responsible for finding you a residency. You are. Yes, I have emailed and called program directors for my students, but that's me paying it forward, not my school. All of this handwringing over how I'm going to be severely limited as a DO is just a bunch of hyperventilation. Competitive specialties are in reach for individuals who make themselves a competitive applicant. This requires a thorough understanding of what that means and playing the match game well against those people who actually had the stats and application to get into a top 10 school. In my experience, the majority of my students want to go into primary care. Primary care includes, FM, Peds, IM, and OB/GYN. This is why many have chosen to go DO. My son included. He is FM and just matched a sports med fellowship. My wife and I were surprised at his choice, but we have seen he loves it and is quite good at it. So if nearly 9 out of 10 DOs matching their preferred specialty is not high enough for you or if you have to be a plastic or neurosurgeon, then take a couple of gap years and build a killer application for med school. You have been offered some great advice, ignore the self loathing DO noise some projected, and make the best decision for you. Life is full of choices, make good ones. Good luck and best wishes!

 

[Goro]

you mean circle jerk? I mean, we could all see through the pudding what this thread really was from miles away. hence me being a b***** earlier.

Well, it took three pages to get to the flames, so SDN is definitely improving.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

you mean circle jerk? I mean, we could all see through the pudding what this thread really was from miles away. hence me being a b***** earlier.

I’m sorry the truth is annoying

 

[deleted1082375]

I’m sorry the truth is annoying

life aint fair, even if the degrees should land you in an equal job with an equal application.

 

[mediscene]

Failed to match MS4 struggling and I don't know if I can keep going. : medicalschool (reddit.com)

One DO applicant's experience applying to orthopaedic surgery (still helpful for other competitive stuff) | Student Doctor Network

Interesting reads. Just a few examples out of many. Sacrificing a year now will pay dividends in the future. Read down in the comments on the reddit post about the other applicant who failed to match ophtho for a second time now.

This is a tangent (so feel free to ignore) regarding the first post's OP. They say "I know in my heart I can't be anywhere near as happy in any other field."
-> How do they ascertain this w/o having gone through all the medical field, which is impossible without having a lifespan of 1000 yrs? Don't people typically pursue a speciality by balancing the pros/cons and determining what they can handle in the long run? I'd believe there are med fields similar to optho in lifestyle/patient population/work/admin stuff/etc but just lower in prestige and $... Someone help me understand the above logic

"I don't know if others share my belief, but I see it as that with whatever specialty you go into, you have gotta love it at its core and the bread and butter," "But if I can't live the life I want, then I don't know why I should."
-> Is this true? I've worked with sports ortho surgeons who get tired of what they do and hate a busy day at work. What I do know is that they do love the associated prestige, money, respect, culture, high % of positive pt outcomes, etc.

Someone help me understand those comments. Am I being too pessimistic/realistic/unpassionate? I'm an incoming med student btw.

 

[GwBXtRTrVktW9E]

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[Goro]

I'm curious, how do you think someone can be a competitive applicant with Step 1 going P/F? Research is the other thing I can think of, and it doesn't seem like most DO schools have research at the same level that MD schools do. So you pretty much need to come into school with research already done in your competitive specialty, or have really strong connections that will hook you up. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Step 2 + networking + good letters + research. The latter is out there...it doesn't have to be bench research, after all.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

This is a tangent (so feel free to ignore) regarding the first post's OP. They say "I know in my heart I can't be anywhere near as happy in any other field."
-> How do they ascertain this w/o having gone through all the medical field, which is impossible without having a lifespan of 1000 yrs? Don't people typically pursue a speciality by balancing the pros/cons and determining what they can handle in the long run? I'd believe there are med fields similar to optho in lifestyle/patient population/work/admin stuff/etc but just lower in prestige and $... Someone help me understand the above logic

"I don't know if others share my belief, but I see it as that with whatever specialty you go into, you have gotta love it at its core and the bread and butter," "But if I can't live the life I want, then I don't know why I should."
-> Is this true? I've worked with sports ortho surgeons who get tired of what they do and hate a busy day at work. What I do know is that they do love the associated prestige, money, respect, culture, high % of positive pt outcomes, etc.

Someone help me understand those comments. Am I being too pessimistic/realistic/unpassionate? I'm an incoming med student btw.

I think it's a lot to do with your level of intellectual curiosity. How much to you love learning and reading the material related to your specialty? Do you like anatomy? Maybe radiology or surgery might be a good fit? Do you like chemistry, physio and pharm? Maybe IM, anesthesiology or critical care? Do you like the social interaction, then maybe FM, General IM, or psych? If you only look at lifestyle, or the immature concept of something called prestige, you might then perceive your career as drudgery after awhile.. According to Charting Outcomes, about 1100 senior MDs did not match last year and had to enter the SOAP. That's a lot. 2021 will be more competetive and 2022 will be more so, making it more important to understand the Match Game for your specialty and play well.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

I'm curious, how do you think someone can be a competitive applicant with Step 1 going P/F? Research is the other thing I can think of, and it doesn't seem like most DO schools have research at the same level that MD schools do. So you pretty much need to come into school with research already done in your competitive specialty, or have really strong connections that will hook you up. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

To continue with what my sage colleague @Goro said, to be competetive requires all the boxes being checked. Step 1 score used to be merely one box. Now it's step 2. Remember there is the summer between MS1 and 2 for research. It's not critical it be in your area of interest, like maybe educational research, but it certainly helps. It's up to you to organize that, find a mentor at your school and move forward. Competetive candidates have the total package, research, board scores, clinical grades, LORs, class rank, etc. Having one box checked and others not, will limit your competitiveness. Anyone can think of a thousand reasons not to do something , or even try. It takes you to find the one reason for you to enter the competition and then go achieve your goal

 

[jhmmd]

I'm curious, how do you think someone can be a competitive applicant with Step 1 going P/F? Research is the other thing I can think of, and it doesn't seem like most DO schools have research at the same level that MD schools do. So you pretty much need to come into school with research already done in your competitive specialty, or have really strong connections that will hook you up. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

It depends on the D.O. school.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

These things are all much easier to do at an MD school which has on average 6-7x the number of faculty. On the upper end, you have hopkins getting 700m+ in research funding (a significant portion for their MD program) and on the lower end, unranked schools receive 20-30m in NIH funding. Even at my low-tier SMP we had faculty begging us to join their labs (I personally turned down two). Most of our faculty were ivy-educated and were either directors themselves at places like Yale or have strong connections there.

Most DO schools get zilch or 2m max. The same systems (discipline to get high mcat --> high step 1, MD curriculum/structure/resources --> good step 1) will translate into a strong step 2 score. LORs from known faculty at academic centers are much harder to come by for DO students as they scramble to set up their rotations at a majority of DO schools. Or they would need to drive 2-3 hours+ for research/auditions.

Like I said, you can think of a thousand reasons not to try. Over 1100 MD seniors entered the SOAP last year. Doesn't seem like that MD degree or the opportunities availed to them by their schools helped all that much. It's what you do with the opportunities available. Life is full of choices. Make good ones.