Parents that are too involved??

[futrdoctrfl]

I applied to med school for the first time last year. Applied to a ton of reach schools so obviously there were rejections. For the schools that didn't send out rejections through email, the letters were sent to the home I grew up in/where my parents live (I'm weird about giving my college address to adcoms if I'm only going to live there for one year). My mom opened two of the letters without telling me and threw them out so that I wouldn't get upset to see I was rejected. I appreciate the thoughtfulness, but I kinda looked like an idiot reaching out to certain schools asking about my application status after I had already been rejected....I told her it's not cool and she respected that and said she won't do it again.

Fast forward to this summer. I've been on the waitlist at one school and classes start next week (I'm aware my chances are slim and I'm obviously applying again). Well my mom thought it would be a lovely idea to call the school and ask when I should be hearing back from them. To my understanding, she didn't use my name and just said something along the lines of "when should my daughter hear back." I know this isn't terrible and I've heard horror stories of parents writing recommendation letters for their kids and stuff...but I'm still pretty annoyed that she would call just to ask a stupid question like that when I told her CoUnTLesS times that I could be accepted off the waitlist up until the week when classes start!! This time she doesn't think she did anything wrong since "she's entitled to call whomever she wants." We haven't talked for a whole day and I can't seem to get her to understand it from my point of view.

Does anyone else have parents who like to get too involved in the med school admissions process? Has anyone successfully convinced their parents that you're a functioning adult who knows the appropriate ways/times to contact a med school when you're on the wait list?

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[EdgeTrimmer]

I am a parent and I am fully involved with my son's education but only to the extent he seeks my advice. I would never call any school or hide info from him. I know someone in my family calling medical schools but only to seek general information and without giving applicants names. I think that part is OK. Some parents are very anxious and don't want their kids to miss opportunities. It's more common with ORMs and majority of the ORMs pay for kids education, so they want to be part of the decision making.

 

[futrdoctrfl]

Yea I kinda have the same parents. You’re right to be upset BUT at the same I’ve this stuff happen time and time again especially with parents who never grew up in the US and are from a different country. Sometimes it’s just a case of they-didn’t-know. Agreed you told her countless times you could be accepted, but maybe don’t emphasize it too much and tell her you’re taking care of it, it could hurt you if she calls too much.

Also we’re not kids anymore lol, please don’t start playing silent treatment especially with well-intentioned-even-though-they-shouldn’t parents. Just my POV

She's the one who's not talking to me lol...but you're right. Both of my parents are from another country and neither of them are in the medical field. I know deep down they have good intentions and are just trying to do what they can to help. Just wish they wouldn't call adcoms

 

[LizzyM]

I applied to med school for the first time last year. Applied to a ton of reach schools so obviously there were rejections. For the schools that didn't send out rejections through email, the letters were sent to the home I grew up in/where my parents live (I'm weird about giving my college address to adcoms if I'm only going to live there for one year).

The application cycle lasts only one year. Let this be a lesson to future applicants... give the address where you pick up mail every day, not a home address where someone may intercept your mail or it sits in a pile until you visit the folks. If need be, get a post office box for a year. This mess could have been avoided but maybe it wasn't foreseeable.

 

[futrdoctrfl]

I am a parent and I am fully involved with my son's education but only to the extent he seeks my advice. I would never call any school or hide info from him. I know someone in my family calling medical schools but only to seek general information and without giving applicants names. I think that part is OK. Some parents are very anxious and don't want their kids to miss opportunities. It's more common with ORMs and majority of the ORMs pay for kids education, so they want to be part of the decision making.

Yeah she told me she didn't disclose my name, but I wasn't there when she made the call so who knows.

 

[futrdoctrfl]

The application cycle lasts only one year. Let this be a lesson to future applicants... give the address where you pick up mail every day, not a home address where someone may intercept your mail or it sits in a pile until you visit the folks. If need be, get a post office box for a year. This mess could have been avoided but maybe it wasn't foreseeable.

Yep definitely not making that mistake again

 

[honeybee87]

That’s so cringe. Only in America will you find parents doing this and using forums on their child’s behalf

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

That’s so cringe. Only in America will you find parents doing this and using forums on their child’s behalf

Only in america we have forums like this LOL only in America admissions process become so complex. Lot of countries you take an exam and based on that you get admission, no holistic stuff.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Yeah she told me she didn't disclose my name, but I wasn't there when she made the call so who knows.

Have a little faith in her. Are your parents paying for your medical school?

 

[futrdoctrfl]

Have a little faith in her. Are your parents paying for your medical school?

They want to but I plan on taking out student loans

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

They want to but I plan on taking out student loans

I guess if you don't want to depend on them for anything, then you don't need to share anything. I have seen kids wanting it both ways i.e. want parents money and help but also don't want the "meddling"

 

[LizzyM]

I guess if you don't want to depend on them for anything, then you don't need to share anything. I have seen kids wanting it both ways i.e. want parents money and help but also don't want the "meddling"

I guess your help is transactional rather than coming out of a generosity of spirit toward your offspring. No judgment; just observing where you are coming from with this comment.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

I guess your help is transactional rather than coming out of a generosity of spirit toward your offspring. No judgment; just observing where you are coming from with this comment.

@LizzyM - my argument is the other way. some kids treat it as transactional and any parental involvement is treated as meddling and complain on social media . I understand sometimes parents cross boundaries.

 

[LizzyM]

@LizzyM - my argument is the other way. some kids treat it as transactional and any parental involvement is treated as meddling and complain on social media . I understand sometimes parents cross boundaries.

Transactional means that your kids get your money in exchange for your right to meddle in their affairs. It is a quid pro quo. Young people often feel financial pressure to accept assistance but it sometimes comes with strings that interfer with the child's ability to mature and take responsibility for themselves, their actions and the decisions that will affect the rest of their lives.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Transactional means that your kids get your money in exchange for your right to meddle in their affairs. It is a quid pro quo. Young people often feel financial pressure to accept assistance but it sometimes comes with strings that interfer with the child's ability to mature and take responsibility for themselves, their actions and the decisions that will affect the rest of their lives.

@LizzyM - I understood what transactional meant before I replied I wouldn't call it quid pro quo though. Young people think once they get to certain age they know everything and parents should stay away but write the checks ( been there, done that LOL) It's nothing wrong when parent is paying lot of money for education to worry about the outcomes and try to involve (upto to certain extent). I don't support what OP's mom did as per hiding the mails but I don't see anything wrong with her calling a school and finding about WL movement without giving any names.

 

[differentiating]

Yeah, this is inappropriate for your mother to have done. My mom was involved in my cycle- but she 100% let all communication come through me, and the few times schools sent snail mail to my house, she let me know and waited for permission to open things and relate them to me. She just supported me and cheered me on.

Calling med schools is overstepping, whether she used your name or not. You’re not wrong to be upset over it.

 

[ciestar]

@LizzyM - I understood what transactional meant before I replied I wouldn't call it quid pro quo though. Young people think once they get to certain age they know everything and parents should stay away but write the checks ( been there, done that LOL) It's nothing wrong when parent is paying lot of money for education to worry about the outcomes and try to involve (upto to certain extent). I don't support what OP's mom did as per hiding the mails but I don't see anything wrong with her calling a school and finding about WL movement without giving any names.

There is a lot wrong with her calling the school.

 

[honeybee87]

Ha, you must've not lived outside of America much

No actually I spent a good chunk of my life living in israel and traveled to other countries as well. Parents weren’t cringe like this in any of those places

 

[honeybee87]

I've lived in 2 other countries for half my life

Good for u bud. Good for u. You won OK? You won at who lived longer in a foreign country on an anonymous forum

 

[Bonne Nuit]

@LizzyM It's nothing wrong when parent is paying lot of money for education to worry about the outcomes and try to involve (upto to certain extent).

I am sincerely curious. What do you, as a parent, expect the outcome of your (non-financial) involvement to be? How do you envision your assistance or involvement or whatever you call it strengthening your adult child's candidacy for a professional field?

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

No actually I spent a good chunk of my life living in israel and traveled to other countries as well. Parents weren’t cringe like this in any of those places

May be kids in those countries complain less? LOL

 

[honeybee87]

May be kids in those countries complain less? LOL

That is a valid point

 

[honeybee87]

How mature. And missing the point...others' experiences can be valuable to hear out sometimes

“slow and quite clap”

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

I am sincerely curious. What do you, as a parent, expect to be the outcome of your (non-financial) involvement to be? How do you envision your assistance or involvement or whatever you call it strengthening your adult child's candidacy for a professional field?

@StayWandering - I have no expectations on outcome. As I said before my kid seeks my guidance on how to strengthen his candidacy for T10 and I search forums like SDN and CC and pass the info to him. I don't involve in his academics and ECs (expecting giving some tips about ECs based on what i hear or read like feedback from this forum on volunteering overseas). The time he gains from me involving he uses it to have some fun, so it's WIN-WIN.

 

[LizzyM]

A school can't give you much information over the phone if you don't give a name. And if you do give a name, they shouldn't give information to anyone except the applicant. Given that one can not easily accertain that one is speaking to the applicant, the general policy is to give no specific information about an applicant to a caller. Ergo, it is a complete waste of everyone's time to phone asking for information about the status of an application or the application cycle. Just about all that one can say is that the first day of orientation is X and there may be waitlist movement up to that date and that applicants will be notified by telephone or email.

 

[LizzyM]

Kids who have fun while their parents do all the "work" are set up to fail at adulting.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

This. Parental pressure on education in some countries is borderline abusive...parents in the US are next level chill lol. Cringey may be a different story

Some of those countries only way to survive is thru educational success and only certain fields are valued in society unlike in US. lot of parents in US are more interested in sports and bands than education

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Kids who have fun while their parents do all the "work" are set up to fail at adulting.

depends on the meaning of "work" is ( channelling BC ).

 

[Bonne Nuit]

@StayWandering - I have no expectations on outcome. As I said before my kid seeks my guidance on how to strengthen his candidacy for T10 and I search forums like SDN and CC and pass the info to him. I don't involve in his academics and ECs (expecting giving some tips about ECs based on what i hear or read like feedback from this forum on volunteering overseas). The time he gains from me involving he uses it to have some fun, so it's WIN-WIN.

OK, so I don't really see your involvement as unreasonable at all. I think it's best for one to do their own research (only because it literally helps one develop a more comprehensive understanding of the med school application process) but you and your kid are entitled to prioritize your efforts however you like. It sounds like your kid actively seeks your guidance, which is very different than the OP's situation. It's working for you two, and that's great.

It crosses a line when a parent becomes an intermediary - in any capacity - between the child and the professionals with whom the adult child will be interacting in their career. So I'm going to have to disagree with you about the appropriateness of family members/parents calling medical schools (even without using names) on the child's behalf. Behavior like that can tarnish the application, so why would anyone who ostensibly wants the child to succeed risk it by meddling like that?

I used to work in a field that had a robust software development/computer engineering internship program. Any whiff of parental involvement in the process meant an automatic rejection for the internship applicant (and it happened with surprising frequency). The manager of the program just did not want to deal with parents or interns who couldn't stand up to their parents. I don't know if that's how it works with medical schools, but parental involvement reflects very poorly on the applicant in other professional fields. I wish parents would understand this irrespective of their financial involvement with their child. They're not helping; they're hurting.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

OK, so I don't really see your involvement as unreasonable at all. I think it's best for one to do their own research (only because it literally helps one develop a more comprehensive understanding of the med school application process) but you and your kid are entitled to prioritize your efforts however you like. It sounds like your kid actively seeks your guidance, which is very different than the OP's situation. It's working for you two, and that's great.

It crosses a line when a parent becomes an intermediary - in any capacity - between the child and the professionals with whom the adult child will be interacting in their career. So I'm going to have to disagree with you about the appropriateness of family members/parents calling medical schools (even without using names) on the child's behalf. Behavior like that can tarnish the application, so why would anyone who ostensibly wants the child to succeed risk it by meddling like that?

I used to work in a field that had a robust software development/computer engineering internship program. Any whiff of parental involvement in the process meant an automatic rejection for the internship applicant (and it happened with surprising frequency). The manager of the program just did not want to deal with parents or interns who couldn't stand up to their parents. I don't know if that's how it works with medical schools, but parental involvement reflects very poorly on the applicant in other professional fields. I wish parents would understand this. Regardless of who writes the checks - they're not helping; they're hurting.

I didn't say it's appropriate for a parent to call medical school on child's behalf. I will never do that nor support that but if it's not a big deal if a parent called to get some general information (most likely they know they won't get much but do it anyway) OP's mom called to find out waitlist status out of anxiety and that's not enough to throw her under the bus!

 

[Bonne Nuit]

I didn't say it's appropriate for a parent to call medical school on child's behalf. I will never do that nor support that but if it's not a big deal if a parent called to get some general information (most likely they know they won't get much but do it anyway) OP's mom called to find out waitlist status out of anxiety and that's not enough to throw her under the bus!

We absolutely do not know whether that's enough to throw that person under the bus. I don't think you or I can confidently say one way or the other.

What I can say is that in my former line of work, had something like that happened and had the manager been able to figure out who was calling, it would have been the end of the line with that applicant.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

We absolutely do not know whether that's enough to throw that person under the bus. I don't think you or I can confidently say one way or the other.

What I can say is that in my former line of work, had something like that happened and had the manager been able to figure out who was calling, it would have been the end of the line with that applicant.

I agree. We just have to go by what OP said. He said his mom told him that she didn't give out his name but he is not sure if she telling the truth and my response is no use of being suspicious of mom. Hope all works out for OP.

 

[PlsLetMeIn21]

Oh no, I used my parent's address for my apps. I never even considered that this could happen and now I'm paranoid that my dad is collecting rejection letters. I can totally see this happening to me too.

 

[gyngyn]

I didn't say it's appropriate for a parent to call medical school on child's behalf. I will never do that nor support that but if it's not a big deal if a parent called to get some general information (most likely they know they won't get much but do it anyway) OP's mom called to find out waitlist status out of anxiety and that's not enough to throw her under the bus!

Be sure not to use a phone that is listed as a contact number for the applicant.
Use a blocked number.
And yes, parental calls about the waitlist can become part of the decision-making process.

 

[deleted804295]

@LizzyM - I understood what transactional meant before I replied I wouldn't call it quid pro quo though. Young people think once they get to certain age they know everything and parents should stay away but write the checks ( been there, done that LOL) It's nothing wrong when parent is paying lot of money for education to worry about the outcomes and try to involve (upto to certain extent). I don't support what OP's mom did as per hiding the mails but I don't see anything wrong with her calling a school and finding about WL movement without giving any names.

Parents should stay away after a certain age. And kids aren't saying this out of disrespect but so that they can gain a sense of independency. You can't expect us to be having children in around 5-10 years when we don't even know how to take care of ourselves.

Seriously, just give your son the check book for a month and have him write his own checks. Let him have some independence and please respect him if he asks respectfully for you to give him some space.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Parents should stay away after a certain age. And kids aren't saying this out of disrespect but so that they can gain a sense of independency. You can't expect us to be having children in around 5-10 years when we don't even know how to take care of ourselves.

Seriously, just give your son the check book for a month and have him write his own checks. Let him have some independence and please respect him if he asks respectfully for you to give him some space.

I agree with what you said. If you read my responses, I said i only provide the help/guidance my son asks me. As long as parent and child acts within their boundaries there won't be any issues. How much a kid wants parents help in their adult life is between them.

As per my son, he has his own check book and very good at managing his and makes his own decisions. I told him to go BSMD path but he chose traditional path and so far he is doing very well at a T20 school.

 

[KnightDoc]

I agree with what you said. If you read my responses, I said i only provide the help/guidance my son asks me. As long as parent and child acts within their boundaries there won't be any issues. How much a kid wants parents help in their adult life is between them.

As per my son, he has his own check book and very good at managing his and makes his own decisions. I told him to go BSMD path but he chose traditional path and so far he is doing very well at a T20 school.

But you also said that "I don't see anything wrong with her calling a school and finding about WL movement without giving any names," when a member of an adcom came on here and said that such a move, if traced back to an applicant (through, for example, caller ID) could have an adverse effect on an application.

You clearly love your kids very much, and want to do everything in your power to help, but you seem to lack perspective on where the line is (for example, just by being on here! ), as evidenced by your defense of the inexcusable actions by the OP's mom.

Guiding an adult child when requested to do so is perfectly okay. Actively participating in a pre-med forum on behalf of an adult child is probably crossing a line, and opening mail without being asked to do so (a federal offense), let alone hiding it, as well as making phone calls to admissions offices, whether or not anonymously, is definitely crossing a line, no matter how well intentioned -- no ifs, ands or buts.

 

[907914]

having children in around 5-10 years

LOL

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

But you also said that "I don't see anything wrong with her calling a school and finding about WL movement without giving any names," when a member of an adcom came on here and said that such a move, if traced back to an applicant (through, for example, caller ID) could have an adverse effect on an application.

You clearly love your kids very much, and want to do everything in your power to help, but you seem to lack perspective on where the line is (for example, just by being on here! ), as evidenced by your defense of the inexcusable actions by the OP's mom.

Guiding an adult child when requested to do so is perfectly okay. Actively participating in a pre-med forum on behalf of an adult child is probably crossing a line, and opening mail without being asked to do so (a federal offense), let alone hiding it, as well as making phone calls to admissions offices, whether or not anonymously, is definitely crossing a line, no matter how well intentioned -- no ifs, ands or buts.

Wow, now you are ready to throw poor mom into federal prison for opening mail, nice going! I hope you don't do that to your own mother.

I did not support OP's mom calling but at the same time i think it's blown out of proportion! I still find it odd that a school make note of a phone number from a general query call and try to tie it to applicants and penalize them. Everyone is entitled their own opinions in this free country and every school makes their own rules.

As per me participating in premed forum, SDN allows it and I registered myself as parent and pose questions as a parent. I could have easily pretended like so many trolls and avoid self righteous people like you! May be you should ask them to change rules! I know lot of parents check SDN and don't how many participate as parents or pretend to be students but as long as my son needs my guidance I will continue to assist him in his quest. It's better than paying thousands of dollars to admissions consultants!

 

[907914]

It's better than paying thousands of dollars to admissions consultants!

Or...you let your own adult child figure out how to adult. If your adult child wants to be a physician, they probably have the ability to ask these questions themselves. It doesn’t matter if you are paying for it or not, they are the one who will have the career and thus should be the ones finding out more about said career.

 

[907914]

Wow, now you are ready to throw poor mom into federal prison for opening mail, nice going! I hope you don't do that to your own mother.

Also, you are sympathetic to the mother - but if what you are doing is a crime, even if it is an innocent act of a concerned parent, then there is probably a good reason to condemn the parent.

 

[KnightDoc]

Wow, now you are ready to throw poor mom into federal prison for opening mail, nice going! I hope you don't do that to your own mother.

I did not support OP's mom calling but at the same time i think it's blown out of proportion! I still find it odd that a school make note of a phone number from a general query call and try to tie it to applicants and penalize them. Everyone is entitled their own opinions in this free country and every school makes their own rules.

As per me participating in premed forum, SDN allows it and I registered myself as parent and pose questions as a parent. I could have easily pretended like so many trolls and avoid self righteous people like you! May be you should ask them to change rules! I know lot of parents check SDN and don't how many participate as parents or pretend to be students but as long as my son needs my guidance I will continue to assist him in his quest. It's better than paying thousands of dollars to admissions consultants!

No, it's all good - I actually have no interest in asking anyone to change any rules. Every well meaning parent who crosses a line and inadvertently ruins their kids' chances at a school will only help mine and everyone else's whose parents are able to control themselves.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Or...you let your own adult child figure out how to adult. If your adult child wants to be a physician, they probably have the ability to ask these questions themselves. It doesn’t matter if you are paying for it or not, they are the one who will have the career and thus should be the ones finding out more about said career.

Again, I am not preventing from my 19 year old adult child from asking questions. He outsourced that task to me while he is busy with first author paper and other activities.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

No, it's all good - I actually have no interest in asking anyone to change any rules. Every well meaning parent who crosses a line and inadvertently ruins their kids' chances at a school will only help mine and everyone else's whose parents are able to control themselves.

Good for you and GL to you (I meant it) I hope you don't need other people's failures to succeed. I know my boundaries well and my kid is in good hands.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Also, you are sympathetic to the mother - but if what you are doing is a crime, even if it is an innocent act of a concerned parent, then there is probably a good reason to condemn the parent.

Sorry for being sympathetic to a mom, poor thing doesn't know its a brutal world.

 

[907914]

Then maybe you son is just bad at time management if your assistance is required.

I totally understand a parent that wants to know more about the process and a parent helping their child along in the process. But the process should still be conducted by the applicant.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Then maybe you son is just bad at time management if your assistance is required.

No, he is very good at time management. You won't become a top student at a T20 school, excellent researcher and doing great in other ECs if you have time management skills. He basically has no interest in participating in forums like this but trusts my advice. Every kid (adult) is different, no point in trying to find faults.

I hope we can move on from this topic, but I can answer more questions

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Unethical behavior, regardless of intent or who it is, deserves no sympathy.

I thought we are a compassionate society!

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

I totally understand a parent that wants to know more about the process and a parent helping their child along in the process. But the process should still be conducted by the applicant.

Believe me, he will conduct the process. I am not smart enough to do the process for him.

 

[HopeP]

Wow this become a hot potato !!! BTW another parent here.
I will share my experience rather than judging anyone intentions.
I have seen with my younger son, shares little information (not because he doesn't want to but more immaturity as freshman UG) and as a parents you felt left out or even not knowing what is happening. This is due to part that med school route is so convoluted and complex its very difficult for anyone to grasp and understand initially. It is a learning process, especially initial UG years help me to help you out. As a parent I found it very difficult that his elder brother, just by a year old, shares everything w/o even asking. Only solution work with younger one is keep asking questions to him until you get answer and ofc not acting like helicoptering. Every family dynamics are different and what works for one family may not work for other. Its not one size fits all. Sometimes as a parent act like, if something I don't understand that means it is not important and hence take incorrect/inappropriate action in hind sight. Guess what his current study/service abroad in an African country during summer make a drastic difference in his maturity for whatever reason.
I am biased with immigrant parents, as majority of them came here because they have support from their parents and other family members, so they do value family involvement, however next generation born here has lesser perspective, partly processes are not geared like that due to all sort of regulations and like some one pointed out earlier even adcom may see it as -ve for an applicant (I learnt something new too). Immigrant parents want to see their next generation to be succeed, otherwise have a guilty feeling of their decision to come to USA, whether it is right or wrong, but that is an honest admission.
Bringing back to OP's situation, I clearly see dynamics of communication issue rather than meddling on purpose. @AShap summarized well earlier

Try to be more cognizant of what she's doing and check in more often with her about her plans and concerns in order to alleviate them before she does something that may become a problem for you.

Your mother clearly cares a lot, however misguided those efforts may be. She may be set on calling whomever she wants, but in the future, try to give her as vague/little information as you can. That's what usually works for me.