pass/fail dental schools

[futuredentist86]

I know of several pass/fail dental schools including:
Case
Columbia
Ucla
Harvard
Uscf
Uconn

Does anybody else know of any that are not on the list? I tried searching on google for a complete list but can't seem to find one. Thank-you!

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[SugarNaCl]

I know of several pass/fail dental schools including:
Case
Columbia
Ucla
Harvard
Uscf
Uconn

Does anybody else know of any that are not on the list? I tried searching on google for a complete list but can't seem to find one. Thank-you!

Not sure. I didnt even know this many schools were pass/fail.

No offense to Case, but how can they afford to be pass/fail? Do pass/fail schools still have rankings? The other schools have such an excellent reputation overall (as does Case) but it seems like out of all of these schools, Case is the one that seems out of place. Does anyone know about this? If you go to Harvard and pass, I can see how regardless of ranking, residency programs may accept you... but Case? Just curious. I know it is a very good school. I am not saying otherwise. But you dont look at someone and say WOW, they went to Case! Just like you don't look at someone and say WOW, they went to VCU. You know?

 

[doc3232]

Advantages and Disadvantages of pass/fail?
I know one, easier 4 years

 

[Hysteria24]

We'll soon see how this affects applying for specialty programs now that boards are going pass fail.

There will be quite a few applications that look like this:
GPA: Pass
NBDE 1: Pass

(why many expect another test to be developed)

 

[dentstd]

(why many expect another test to be developed)

Which begs the questions, who'll pay to develop it and who'll write it? UCLA? UConn? Nova? It won't be the ADA, cuz they're the one who caused the problem. There is currently no one designated/with the resources to develop such a test.

 

[HoangDDS]

Not sure. I didnt even know this many schools were pass/fail.

No offense to Case, but how can they afford to be pass/fail? Do pass/fail schools still have rankings? The other schools have such an excellent reputation overall (as does Case) but it seems like out of all of these schools, Case is the one that seems out of place. Does anyone know about this? If you go to Harvard and pass, I can see how regardless of ranking, residency programs may accept you... but Case? Just curious. I know it is a very good school. I am not saying otherwise. But you dont look at someone and say WOW, they went to Case! Just like you don't look at someone and say WOW, they went to VCU. You know?

I thought ranking of the school is done base on % of the student passing the boards. UCSF and UPenn are ranked so high b/c they have such a high percentage of student passing boards first time.

But pass/fail sounds easier to me then getting kicked out for having a GPA below X .

 

[armorshell]

Which begs the questions, who'll pay to develop it and who'll write it? UCLA? UConn? Nova? It won't be the ADA, cuz they're the one who caused the problem. There is currently no one designated/with the resources to develop such a test.

When I was on externship recently, I talked to a few people about this and heard that there is already a test under development driven by the ortho and OMFS residency programs. Admittedly, this information is secondhand.

Additionally, while a certain division of the ADA is behind the movement if the NBDE to P/F, that boards recommendation was that it's unsuitable for the test they had developed to be used to evaluate candidates for residency. It didn't preclude another test from being created.

 

[SugarNaCl]

I thought ranking of the school is done base on % of the student passing the boards. UCSF and UPenn are ranked so high b/c they have such a high percentage of student passing boards first time.

But pass/fail sounds easier to me then getting kicked out for having a GPA below X .

Oh no, I mean Pass or Fail for classes. I don't think dental schools are "technically" ranked right? I mean your class rank. If you don't go to an Ivy school with a great reputation and you pass all of your classes but everyone in the class upon graduation just gets a "Pass", what good is it? They have no way to measure your abilities except on the boards which will be pass/fail for those just entering.

I was just surprised with Case not being "ivy" that they had a Pass/Fail system, that's all. If the bottom student and the top student at Harvard wanted the same residency spot and boards too were pass fail... they would both have Pass/Pass and no information to measure their academic/manual ability. I just don't understand

 

[gogiantsss]

When I was on externship recently, I talked to a few people about this and heard that there is already a test under development driven by the ortho an dOMFS residency programs. Admittedly, this information is secondhand.

Additionally, while a certain division of the ADA is behind the movement if the NBDE to P/F, that boards recommendation was that it's unsuitable for the test they had developed to be used to evaluate candidates for residency. It didn't preclude another test from being created.

Any thoughts on what extra information would be covered on this new specialty exam that's not on the current board exam?

 

[dentstd]

When I was on externship recently, I talked to a few people about this and heard that there is already a test under development driven by the ortho an dOMFS residency programs. Admittedly, this information is secondhand.

Did they say whether this test is being developed on a national scale? meaning, is there a national collaboration? I imagine it's not too difficult to come up with a test, because professors can just pull questions from dental school exams (or even NBDE simulation exams) and administer it to applicants. The question is whether this developing exam would reach the calibre of a standardized exam (in its fairness of question, pertinence to dental practice, etc).

 

[BirkChick]

Hey SugarNaCl,

While Case is P/F, they do keep track of our class rank based on our percentage score in the classes -- they just don't tell us what it is! The administration is doing this to reduce competition (which, in my opinion, is a terrible idea).

And, I actually think this system fosters more competition! Think about it: getting a 95 in a class as opposed to a 94 will affect the rankings. And, since the rankings are "secret", the gunners are always striving for the highest possible percentage. A 90% is no longer good enough (Case never had +s or -s, so in the old system a 90% and a 100% would have the same affect on your GPA/class rank).

Oh no, I mean Pass or Fail for classes. I don't think dental schools are "technically" ranked right? I mean your class rank. If you don't go to an Ivy school with a great reputation and you pass all of your classes but everyone in the class upon graduation just gets a "Pass", what good is it? They have no way to measure your abilities except on the boards which will be pass/fail for those just entering.

I was just surprised with Case not being "ivy" that they had a Pass/Fail system, that's all. If the bottom student and the top student at Harvard wanted the same residency spot and boards too were pass fail... they would both have Pass/Pass and no information to measure their academic/manual ability. I just don't understand

 

[SugarNaCl]

Hey SugarNaCl,

While Case is P/F, they do keep track of our class rank based on our percentage score in the classes -- they just don't tell us what it is! The administration is doing this to reduce competition (which, in my opinion, is a terrible idea).

And, I actually think this system fosters more competition! Think about it: getting a 95 in a class as opposed to a 94 will affect the rankings. And, since the rankings are "secret", the gunners are always striving for the highest possible percentage. A 90% is no longer good enough (Case never had +s or -s, so in the old system a 90% and a 100% would have the same affect on your GPA/class rank).

Oh wow. Yeah, I agree about that causing more competition. Very interesting. I do like that you guys have a rank though. It just makes more sense than how I thought it was handled. Thanks for the response. Clears a lot up. Good luck at Case

 

[armorshell]

Any thoughts on what extra information would be covered on this new specialty exam that's not on the current board exam?

If I said anything it would be completely speculation.

 

[armorshell]

Did they say whether this test is being developed on a national scale? meaning, is there a national collaboration? I imagine it's not too difficult to come up with a test, because professors can just pull questions from dental school exams (or even NBDE simulation exams) and administer it to applicants. The question is whether this developing exam would reach the calibre of a standardized exam (in its fairness of question, pertinence to dental practice, etc).

It was my impression was that they're aiming for a standardized calibre exam and there is a lot of thought going into this, but as I said before I don't know much. I'd imagine if there actually are going to be any big movements as far as a test being developed, we should start hearing about it fairly soon.

 

[lgwdnbdgr]

Hey SugarNaCl,

And, I actually think this system fosters more competition! Think about it: getting a 95 in a class as opposed to a 94 will affect the rankings. And, since the rankings are "secret", the gunners are always striving for the highest possible percentage. A 90% is no longer good enough (Case never had +s or -s, so in the old system a 90% and a 100% would have the same affect on your GPA/class rank).

It seems that way, but I suspect it isn't increasing competition. Columbia is P/F/H. We have a class "rank," but only very vaguely: Top 20, next 20, everybody else. The gunners here are still just as competitive as anywhere else. They still freak out over getting a 95 instead of a 94. In the pre-clinic, they'll hide their bad work and show off their good work, pretending their best work is really their typical.

There's really nothing you can do about those people other than laugh at them.

 

[Bruinlove]

It seems that way, but I suspect it isn't increasing competition. Columbia is P/F/H. We have a class "rank," but only very vaguely: Top 20, next 20, everybody else. The gunners here are still just as competitive as anywhere else. They still freak out over getting a 95 instead of a 94. In the pre-clinic, they'll hide their bad work and show off their good work, pretending their best work is really their typical.

There's really nothing you can do about those people other than laugh at them.

I heard this horror story that at Columbia, if one student studies at library till 2am, others stay till 3am to compete.

 

[Hysteria24]

I heard this horror story that at Columbia, if one student studies at library till 2am, others stay till 3am to compete.

Hmmm... I feel sorry for the ones that then try and study until 4am, or 5am. At some point this extra effort should hit a point of diminishing returns (due to lack of sleep), and anything further might negatively affect the performance of students. Then you'll see the trend go the other way, with students each trying to go to sleep earlier and earlier.

 

[Hysteria24]

It was my impression was that they're aiming for a standardized calibre exam and there is a lot of thought going into this, but as I said before I don't know much. I'd imagine if there actually are going to be any big movements as far as a test being developed, we should start hearing about it fairly soon.

I agree that we should hear soon… The clock is definitely ticking. The class of 2012 (first class affected for most schools) will be applying for residency in 2 years and 10 months. Seeing as how the test would have to be administered and graded beforehand, that gives at a minimum 2.5 years to get funding, write and review the test, find a service to administer the test, and then get the test out.

The down side for this is that when people wanted to score a 90+ on part 1, they had a proven source of study material: decks, released exams, a plethora of review books.

This “new” test would have no proven review source and would seem to be a total crap school. And relating back the original thread topic: probably initially bad for the students at P/F schools.

 

[laundry]

So I'm gonna be one of those people with a Pass/Pass (hopefully...haha) application. What I think is a bit overlooked is the way P/F is set up in most schools. For example, both HSDM and UCSF have classes with honors pass or some other crap like that, so technically it's just like a grade (F-D=Fail, C-B=Pass, A=Honors pass).

It also looks like rec. letters will be given more weight.

P.S. holy mothballs it's been a while since i was on here...

 

[PDizzle]

So I'm gonna be one of those people with a Pass/Pass (hopefully...haha) application. What I think is a bit overlooked is the way P/F is set up in most schools. For example, both HSDM and UCSF have classes with honors pass or some other crap like that, so technically it's just like a grade (F-D=Fail, C-B=Pass, A=Honors pass).

It also looks like rec. letters will be given more weight.

P.S. holy mothballs it's been a while since i was on here...

So far, UCSF seems to be the most "Pass/Fail" out of the "Pass/Fail"'s. Your class rank is not calculated nor recorded. You can however distinguish yourself by getting letters of commendation by scoring real high on tests and in clinic by having an average score of above 90% for all your CE's that quarter.

There is absolutely no competition at UCSF and I frig'n love it. We all get along so good and honestly help each other out whenever possible. I'm so glad that UCSF went P/F before I went there.


Dizz....out

 

[lgwdnbdgr]

I heard this horror story that at Columbia, if one student studies at library till 2am, others stay till 3am to compete.

Nah. If anything, the gunners lie and claim to study a lot less than they actually do.

 

[dentstd]

Some people study a lot not because they're gunners but because their brains are slow to absorb information.

 

[rose786]

So far, UCSF seems to be the most "Pass/Fail" out of the "Pass/Fail"'s. Your class rank is not calculated nor recorded. You can however distinguish yourself by getting letters of commendation by scoring real high on tests and in clinic by having an average score of above 90% for all your CE's that quarter.

There is absolutely no competition at UCSF and I frig'n love it. We all get along so good and honestly help each other out whenever possible. I'm so glad that UCSF went P/F before I went there.


Dizz....out

I thought UCSF used PBL? I'd think that would make the curriculum harder, even if it was P/F.

 

[Hysteria24]

I thought UCSF used PBL? I'd think that would make the curriculum harder, even if it was P/F.

Take UCSF, subtract the F, and switch the positioning of the C and S to get the only CA school that is PBL.

Considering a large part of one's grade in a PBL program comes from the work/research/participation along the way and less so from exams/finals, a P/F PBL curriculum seems like it would be pretty cake and low stress.

 

[Bruinlove]

Take UCSF, subtract the F, and switch the positioning of the C and S to get the only CA school that is PBL.

I heard UCSF has partial PBL curriculum. Maybe I'm wrong.