Pass/Fail advantages and disadvantages

[yorta]

I am admitted to two similar dental schools. One is pass/fail, the other is letter grade. I know some basics of pass/fail, but I'm still wondering whether it is a good thing or bad thing. I heard pass/fail can reduce stress while you're studying at dental school, and it can also reduce the unhealthy competition among classmates. However, I wonder will it at the same time reduce the incentive to excel in what you're studying or training for? Will the students who barely passed look exactly the same with the ones who have perfect scores? How will future residency programs differentiate the former from the latter?

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[aesopsfables]

Some schools rank their top performers. For instance, Penn ranks their top 11 or 12 students, I think. Other schools like UCSF have pass with honors (top 10 percent of class I think) and pass/ fail. I have yet to hear of true disadvantages to true pass fail like at Harvard.

To your point that it removes incentive to study, I think that the difference between passing at P/F and getting a passing grade is not that much of a difference. Do you think that Harvard Med (pass fail as well) churns out students who don’t study?

 

[yorta]

Some schools rank their top performers. For instance, Penn ranks their top 11 or 12 students, I think. Other schools like UCSF have pass with honors (top 10 percent of class I think) and pass/ fail. I have yet to hear of true disadvantages to true pass fail like at Harvard.

To your point that it removes incentive to study, I think that the difference between passing at P/F and getting a passing grade is not that much of a difference. Do you think that Harvard Med (pass fail as well) churns out students who don’t study?

Thank you so much for your reply. I don't think pass/fail schools will churn out students who don't study. I just wonder whether the incentive of studying beyond passing a course will be reduced. If pass/fail schools churn out clinicians just as good as letter grade schools, this shows me the letter grade system is inferior and unnecessary. It incentivizes the students to excel in something that doesn't matter that much for them to become good clinicians eventually.

 

[pickaychu]

i absolutely love pass/fail. my class is very cooperative but everyone still wants to score high for the lettering/academic validation. it takes away the need for competition but most students still have that drive given that we are in dental school.

top scorers at my school receive letters at the end of semesters to show they were the top of their class.

 

[princeafrica]

Them pass fail schools also have "Honors" pass and internal ranking so whoever wanna excel will excel.

 

[yorta]

i absolutely love pass/fail. my class is very cooperative but everyone still wants to score high for the lettering/academic validation. it takes away the need for competition but most students still have that drive given that we are in dental school.

top scorers at my school receive letters at the end of semesters to show they were the top of their class.

Thank you so much for your reply. what is the "lettering/academic validation" you mentioned?

 

[yorta]

Them pass fail schools also have "Honors" pass and internal ranking so whoever wanna excel will excel.

Make sense. So it is only pass/fail to the students perceptions. Actually students still have letter grades and rankings that only the faculties know? If requested by a student, can the student himself know the real grade or his current ranking in the class?

 

[DMD12345]

Depends on which pass/fail school. If you're wanting to specialize, look at their match rates. Some are super high; some are very low. If you're wanting to be a gp and worried about being a "better dentist," go to the cheaper one.

 

[charlestweed]

I went to a P/F school. My classmates and I still had to study very hard because we all wanted to score high on the national board part I exam, a standardized exam which helped get us into a specialty program. Going to a P/F school helped reduce a lot of stress and allowed us to have more time to study for the board and do research + other extracuricular activities. That’s why our school had very high specialty rate. For my class, 36 out of 70 students went to postgrad programs. Many (myself included) did GPR/AEGD and later got accepted to ortho, endo, and pedo programs. Now that the national board is P/F, the only specialty that the students can benefit from going to a P/F school is OMFS. That’s because the OS programs use a separate exam, the CBSE, to screen the applicants.

 

[LFA20]

If you can go to a P/F school then go to one. I feel like if you can get into those P/F schools(UCLA, UCSF, PENN, Harvard) then you're probably smart enough to do well in basic science classes at a non P/F school and specialize. However, some people are naturally better with their hands and will do better than others in pre-clinic(waxing, operative, pros) and those classes can add up and affect your grades(at the end the dental classes will weigh more than the sciences). Also your last year of dental school is all based on requirements and if you only do the minimum cases to graduate that could hurt your final rank.

IMO residency program directors know that strong P/F schools like UCLA, UCSF, PENN, and Harvard have higher average GPA and DAT scores compared to other schools. I don't think they care so much about your ability to prep class II's or crowns lol...

 

[princeafrica]

Remember tho you can specialize from any school.

Just because you go to Harvard with 100% match doesn't mean you are guaranteed to match. The students that go to these schools are already bright coming in and continue to excel.

 

[yorta]

Thank all of you for the comments. They are very helpful!

 

[pickaychu]

Thank you so much for your reply. what is the "lettering/academic validation" you mentioned?

my school has letters of commendation given to those scoring above a certain %. it’s just proof you did well. as for academic validation, that’s self inflicted.

 

[macsak]

Still in the game: waitlist on Decision Day is still okay

So many of you may have been placed on a waitlist or few but not get offers. Is there any hope?

You betcha. Remember the Traffic Rules are your friend. You also know the next approximate date for decisions near the middle to end of January.

What can you do now?
Stay upbeat. Depending on the school you are probably in a waitlist pool (unranked individuals, but maybe ranked in a group preference in that you may be IS/OOS or for demographics). You don't know for sure, but that is likely what is going on.

Check-in after the new year.
You may get a survey from the school asking if you are still interested to stay in the waiting pool. Other alternates and offered students will decline their places, so it raises your chances to get an offer. If you get such a survey... you know what to do.

Until you get a survey, and a brief note stating your continued interest. You can send your semester grade update if you are still in school, or ask if you need to do the Academic Update in AADSAS. In any case, be polite. This is a way to let the offices know your are still in play.

Reach out to dental students you met on your interview. See if students can share stories of how late in the cycle they got an offer.

If you still have schools that have put you in an interview hold/waitlist, reach out by next week Tuesday. The admissions offices have to fill their interview days, and many prior on interview hold with you may have gotten accepted elsewhere. If you happen to be available, you could snag an interview at a school.

So hold your head high, knowing there's still some work to do.

@Mr.Smile12 - did you post this in the correct thread???

 

[Mr.Smile12]

@Mr.Smile12 - did you post this in the correct thread???

Oh whoops... thanks for seeting this!

 

[cbudz]

Some schools rank their top performers. For instance, Penn ranks their top 11 or 12 students, I think. Other schools like UCSF have pass with honors (top 10 percent of class I think) and pass/ fail. I have yet to hear of true disadvantages to true pass fail like at Harvard.

To your point that it removes incentive to study, I think that the difference between passing at P/F and getting a passing grade is not that much of a difference. Do you think that Harvard Med (pass fail as well) churns out students who don’t study?

I will most likely be attending UConn as it's my in-state school and also true P/F without rank! I spoke with the dean of admissions and she said with these P/F programs they are so well-established that residency programs know these programs prepare students to excel so it's never really a concern whether or not they are getting great students when they finish their 4 years of dental school. I was also worried about not caring as much or learning as much, but to be honest it's such a breath of fresh air to not have to worry about an 89 vs a 90. Now I can actually focus on absorbing the information rather than rote memorization/cramming and carry all this knowledge with me into practice!

 

[DMD12345]

Btw, just to clear some misconceptions up about Penn: we're not pass fail; we still get letter grades and a GPA, but we're not ranked. The top 10 are also not ranked precisely as "this student is #4" but those 10 with the highest GPA in the class will be in that honors society and residencies will know that they are "Top 10" in the class. At least this is my understanding of how the structure is.

 

[Ivy.ch]

I went to traditional graded dental school. Competing for grades sucked, but residencies were impressed by the rank. So it’s a blessing and a curse.