PhD in Health Psych or PhD in Clinical Psych non-APA

Discussion in 'Psychology [Psy.D. / Ph.D.]' started by CPsych2018, Jul 10, 2018.

  1. CPsych2018

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    What can you do with a PhD in Health Psych,(non clinical) besides teaching?

    I’m currently enrolled in an online PhD clinical Psychology hybrid program. I’m a single mom who will not be able to attend a brick and mortar traditional APA accredited school. My state allows for students to take boards with an APA equivalent accredited program. So a non APA Program is not a deal breaker for me. I just don’t want to waste 7 years of my life and laws and regulations change for licensure. Or I could just take the chance and earn my PhD in Clinical Psychology and take a chance versus a PhD in health Psych knowing that I have no chance at licensure. My goal is to work with the geriatric population providing mental health services.

    My Masters is in General Psychology.
     
  2. WisNeuro

    WisNeuro Board Certified Neuropsychologist
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    It will be extremely difficult to gain licensure from a non-clinical health program. In some states, impossible without an additional respecialization degree. My advice, get a SW degree.
     
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  3. sfgucadoc

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    Agree with Wis. Lot of time and $ lost if your state changes the laws. You might be able to get into an MSW program but it might be more efficient time-wise to look into a post-master's certificate for folks with a master's in psychology who lack the courses necessary for LPC licensure. I think an MSW is a more flexible degree but you may not have the time or $ to go through a SW program. I believe SW programs generally do not allow for transfer credit unless the credits are transferred from another CSWE-accredited master's program.
     
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  4. Mindfulpsych22

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    Both of these tracks are likely to cause problems with what you want to do. Even if a state may license clinicians from non-APA programs, many states have residency requirements that are unlikely to be met by an online program and may prohibit licensure. Many people forget that even if they manage to convince the board that their non-APA training was sufficient enough to get licensed, many hospitals/clinics/AMCs will not hire psychologists from online or non-APA accredited programs or who did not complete an APA internship under any circumstances (there often explicit policies about this in these organizations). Considering that you want to work in geropsychology, a majority of positions in that area are likely to be in the types of settings that will not hire non-APA psychologists. A lot of people deal with this cognitive dissonance by saying “well, I’ll just go into private practice.” Most private practice markets are extremely saturated and geropsychology is not a specialization that will make it easy to make a living in private practice.

    Your best bet is to attend a reputable clinical masters program, attempt to get practica and internship working with geriatric population. This will enable you to have a much higher likelihood of ultimately doing what you want to do and at much less financial and time expense.
     
  5. PSYDR

    PSYDR Psychologist
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    You would be very well served to search any number of threads where someone asks about online schools here. They are very poorly regarded.
     
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  6. WisNeuro

    WisNeuro Board Certified Neuropsychologist
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    To put this into perspective in my state. I work at the largest healthcare provider in the state, we will not hire someone from a non-accredited school for a psychologist level position. I also used to work for the VA in this state, they also would not hire someone with this background. At this point, you've taken the largest two employers who hire psychologists in my state off the table. Also, in relation to geriatric outpatient services in this area at least, very hard to make it in private practice. Many places have multidisciplinary gero clinics available within their system somewhere. I have never referred out for gero services, and 90% of my patients are gero.
     
  7. ClinicalABA

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    I would not hire you currently with such a degree, nor would you have been hireable at any of the agencies I have previously worked (a few of which were in the gero field). Biased or not, professionally I would regard the training from an online program as being inadequate. Personally, I would see it as cutting corners because real life circumstances would not permit you to do otherwise rather than being creative and focused in researching a training option with higher standards. Basically, you'd be seen as too much of a gambler. I don't want someone who would take such a huge financial risk with their own money in a position to take any risks with my money or practice. I'd much rather wait until a candidate from a more predictable training program comes along.

    Whereas your reasons for not being able to participate in a comprehensive doctoral training through a bricks and motor program may be legit, they are irrelevant. You'd get the same education as the person who purposefully enrolled in such a program because they were lazy, didn't want to be inconvenienced, or were not adequately prepared, trained, motivated, or equipped for such an academic endeavor. As an employer, I don't see it as my responsibility to serve as the admissions and screening board for these types of schools that have poor standards for who they accept, matriculate, and graduate. I may miss out on few good candidates, but I also save myself the trouble of weeding through many more poor-awful candidates.

    I know it sounds a bit harsh, but that's the way it is. Peruse any of the similar threads, and you'll see the same sentiment.
     
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  8. Therapist4Chnge

    Therapist4Chnge Neuropsych Ninja Faculty
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    That’s a tough situation. I too would recommend looking at MSW (or similar) training at a brick and mortar university. Many offer night and weekend options for classes.
     
  9. MamaPhD

    MamaPhD Psychologist, Academic Medical Center
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    An online PhD is just not a good use of your time or money. It will leave you with a lot of debt and substandard training. The programs that offer these degrees will tell you otherwise, but they are wrong. You will not be competitive for academic or clinical positions with a degree from an unaccredited program.

    Consider alternatives such as social work, or even nursing, that require less time to a marketable degree and offer more flexible training options. Also, read this and do some soul searching: Opinion | The Snake Oil of the Second-Act Industry
     
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  10. Temperance

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    You can look these up for your specific program, but I pulled statistics for a couple of non-APA-accredited hybrid online programs.

    Within California, the pass rates for the 2017 EPPP for California Southern University was 4 out of 13 (30.77%) and for Saybrook University was 0 out of 1 (0.00%). For 2016, they were 3 of 5 (60.00%) and 3 of 4 (75.00%), respectively. Compare that to most APA-accredited brick-and-mortar programs where that rate is usually 100%. Scrolling down the list, it seemed like the majority of programs had a 100% pass rate, so the ones that don't stick out like sore fingers.

    The lists can be found here: Examination Statistics By School - California Board of Psychology

    Attending a program with poor training can stop you from getting licensed.
     
  11. Psycycle

    Psycycle Psychologist, ABPP
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    That's a really interesting article on a number of levels. We seem to have developed a mindset that "you're never too old" to do just about anything, from completely starting a new career, to having children, and so on.
     
  12. ClinicalABA

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    More importantly to your potential clients, attending a program with poor training can result in you not being a very good- or even competent- clinician, even if you do make it through the internships/licensure hoops.
     
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  13. ClinicalABA

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    It was an interesting article. I think it's important to emphasize that this isn't about being too old to start training. Age is not the issue. It's factors that are correlated with being older that are the problem- things like needing to generate income through full time work to cover existing expenses, others (e.g. children) needing you present and focused on them, strong geographic ties (family, spouse/partner, friends). I'm much closer to 50 than to 20 (or to 40, or even to 45;)) and I think I'd be a stronger student and more focused learner than I was a "few" years back in graduate school. Problem is, I have a mortgage and family (and distant retirement) that relies on my income, established friends and social network, and have come to love the geographical area I live in. If I weren't in a long term relationship, had no kids, and could afford a 85% pay cut, I might go back to school and get a degree in something else, maybe even something that would pay more. I'm not too old for it. I think the best way to put it is that I'm just too "established" professionally and personally to be able to do it the right way.
     
  14. psych.meout

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    People going through these paths should ask themselves if they would freely disclose to their patients that they went through an atypical and poorly trained path (e.g., online programs, non-clinical programs and then doing a respecialization) or if they would accept their physician doing a similarly poorly-trained path.

    The problem isn't really being "too old" for something, it's that some people think age or other circumstances justifies taking shortcuts or otherwise compromising on standards, quality, etc.
     
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  15. Psycycle

    Psycycle Psychologist, ABPP
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    Yeah, that's pretty much what I meant, but to me that's what being too old means. I could go back to school in a heartbeat if I didn't have a mortgage, kids, aging parents, the works. Also, age to retirement is an issue. There's a point where, for many people, it's a financially dangerous decision. And that is correlated with age.

    Also, I was thinking in the context of having children as well - that's another time I hear it. You're never too old to have kids. Well yeah, you can be.
     
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  16. PSYDR

    PSYDR Psychologist
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    To quote the trans posters mascot/ OG pseudonym : “it’s never too late to be what you might have been”.

    @msgeorgeeliot your boi done love him some Victorian literature!
     
  17. msgeorgeeliot

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    I’m both amused and confused. You’re gonna have to break this one down for me, @PSYDR. (You do know that George Eliot is a woman, right?)
     
  18. Harry3990

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    your boi = me, meaning he's referring to himself...PsyDr was just saying that he loves victorian literature after quoting Eliot.
     
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  19. msgeorgeeliot

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    Thanks for the translation, @Harry3990! Of note, it was likely *not* George Eliot who came up with the line, “it’s never too late to be what you might have been.” It is more likely attributable to Adelaide Anne Procter. Nonetheless, I am tickled to learn that my boi @PSYDR and I are both fans of Victorian literature.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/quoteinvestigator.com/2013/11/24/never-too-late/amp/
     
  20. PSYDR

    PSYDR Psychologist
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    Fine, I’ll try a different quote from someone who has shared drinks with me.

    “Life-transforming ideas have always come to me through books.”.

    I am VERY aware that George Elliot was a woman.
     
  21. msgeorgeeliot

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    I love books too, @PSYDR. There’s so much we can agree on. ;) I asked if you knew George Eliot is a woman because I was so confused by your initial post that tagged me. The only (incorrect) sense I could make of it was that you might be referring to Ms Eliot herself as “boi” in a delightfully anachronistic way.
     
  22. Therapist4Chnge

    Therapist4Chnge Neuropsych Ninja Faculty
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    Sometimes @PSYDR can be too fly for his own good.
     
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