Physician Side Hustles

[pgg]

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My brother did his own retaining wall about 10 years ago. Has had back problems and needed epidural steroid injections, time off work, leg weakness, and potentially surgery.

I’d rather pay the $15k to the workers.

A man's got to know his limitations.

I do a great deal of the work on our house and land. I also own a wheelbarrow with an engine and tank treads to move heavy stuff around, and other bits of machinery. My back feels good. The exercise is good for me.

And I hired pros to take down the bigger/scarier trees.

 

[TeslaCoil]

Let me try to be more specific. Are there any docs in here who have experience buying/running side businesses?

 

[MirrorTodd]

Not 0DTE, right? Right?

Not gonna lie, I had to look that up. But no, I’m not psychotic, nor do I have inside info, they’re for the 18th. Hoping to see some action by then considering how things are heating up between musk and Trump.

 

[GravelRider]

Let me try to be more specific. Are there any docs in here who have experience buying/running side businesses?

Buying/running side businesses is absolutely not a passive side hustle. Unless you have enough money to pay people to set up and manage a business, it will absolutely be a drain on your time. People don’t sell businesses that are passive income streams. People sell businesses because maintaining it has become too much work for whatever reason. Even real estate is going to require a certain amount of active work to set up and maintain.

I imagine buying a business requires a large amount of due diligence in researching the financials and growth prospects. It’s probably something you are going to have to hire out to accountants and lawyers if you have never done it before. Starting a business obviously requires tons of work and capital. It’s up to you to decide whether those hours spent doing your due diligence is more valuable in the long run than doing a few extra weekend calls and putting all that money into the market.

Edit: Owning a business is absolutely the path to wealth in the United States, so if you have an idea or an opportunity then go for it. The richest people I know own small businesses…pizza parlors, deli, brewery, a paper company, a company that makes glass cleaner, etc. There was an article in the WSJ recently about these unassuming businesses being the source of wealth for people.

https://www.inc.com/bruce-crumley/stealthy-wealthy-entrepreneurs-one-percenters-boring-businesses/91190916

 

[Splenda88]

Nada. Already making plenty of money and saving a lot.

Agree. I work extra as my 'side' hustle. There aren't that many side hustle that will pay 2k+/day.

 

[Splenda88]

I was thinking more like sources of passive income. So that you dont have to rely on medicine as much.

Work hard for the first five years. Save a ton and invest in JEPQ, and sit on your behind while collecting 10%+ dividend.

I am making 1.5k/month in real estate. Hope to double it by the end of next year when my second investment property is paid off. To me it's passive since I have a property management company doing the work.

 

[Splenda88]

Wealth generally doubles every 7-8 years. But a downturn say 30% market correction drastically cuts the overall total return annually.

Maybe you or I are getting confused? OP says his buddy makes 450k and gets market gains of 900k a year.

You are saying he can make 900k in salary (make salary twice over) to make up for the downturn in gains because a 30% drop would mean the OP will not be making 900k in market gains. Could be negative 1.5 million with a 30% drop.

Which means his buddy isn’t gonna to cut back.

If you are not contributing anything to it. For big ballers like you guys, you should see doubling every 3-5 years.

 

[Splenda88]

Not by any means at all. Right now, I'm basically like Luke, just using the force. I'm not gambling with large sums or anything. Not short selling or anything crazy like that. Just some leaps on companies I'm bullish on and some cash secured puts on companies I don't mind buying and some covered calls on companies I want chump change income from.
EDIT: I may or may not have bought SPY 580 puts with the Trump/Elon feud going on.

How much have you made so far selling options?

It seems like physician like @cyanide12345678 makes a lot of money doing it.

 

[TeslaCoil]

Buying/running side businesses is absolutely not a passive side hustle. Unless you have enough money to pay people to set up and manage a business, it will absolutely be a drain on your time. People don’t sell businesses that are passive income streams. People sell businesses because maintaining it has become too much work for whatever reason. Even real estate is going to require a certain amount of active work to set up and maintain.

I imagine buying a business requires a large amount of due diligence in researching the financials and growth prospects. It’s probably something you are going to have to hire out to accountants and lawyers if you have never done it before. Starting a business obviously requires tons of work and capital. It’s up to you to decide whether those hours spent doing your due diligence is more valuable in the long run than doing a few extra weekend calls and putting all that money into the market.

Edit: Owning a business is absolutely the path to wealth in the United States, so if you have an idea or an opportunity then go for it. The richest people I know own small businesses…pizza parlors, deli, brewery, a paper company, a company that makes glass cleaner, etc. There was an article in the WSJ recently about these unassuming businesses being the source of wealth for people.

https://www.inc.com/bruce-crumley/stealthy-wealthy-entrepreneurs-one-percenters-boring-businesses/91190916

Ive seen plenty of businesses for sale that have GM’s in place running it for you. They manage stock, maintenance, employees, payroll. All of it. The only thing they dont do is clean up your books every couple weeks which you can do yourself in less than a couple hours if you have basic accounting skills. And then you just pay an accounting firm to do a final sweep and file your taxes at years end. Thats as close to passive as it gets. Sure you need to be present to make sure nobody is stealing from you and things are running smoothly.

Ive seen plenty of boomers looking to sell their businesses to extract their liquidity and retire.

 

[finalpsychyear]

How much have you made so far selling options?

It seems like physician like @cyanide12345678 makes a lot of money doing it.

alot of these 500k-600 peeps are putting away 100-200k per year as you do get a generous match. .

 

[aneftp]

alot of these 500k-600 peeps are putting away 100-200k per year as you do get a generous match. Im shocked my year 1 anes sibling has almost put away the higher end of this range just from their own max ira deduction, employer matching, 457b, 403b, backdoor roth not counting there actual w2 after tax paycheck. They fought me tooth and nail about maximum 457/403 but now they are thankful when they see the tax savings.

State employed places vary so much in their matching. State of Florida matching was atrocious 3.3% matching from 2011-2021 (with mandatory 3% employee contribution up to irs limits (currently around 350k). Prior it was very generous 10% plus for state employees

Of course public official , police, judges , elective officials have some crazy 15%? Match or something but the general state employees match was so bad for 10 years. It’s finally a decent 8.3% employer match (around 29k)

I know state of Ohio has outstanding employer match

 

[Splenda88]

alot of these 500k-600 peeps are putting away 100-200k per year as you do get a generous match. Im shocked my year 1 anes sibling has almost put away the higher end of this range just from their own max ira deduction, employer matching, 457b, 403b, backdoor roth not counting there actual w2 after tax paycheck. They fought me tooth and nail about maximum 457/403 but now they are thankful when they see the tax savings.

Putting away 200k/yr is a lot of money. I am bemused sometimes when some doctors on the top 2% complain about salary.

 

[GravelRider]

Ive seen plenty of businesses for sale that have GM’s in place running it for you. They manage stock, maintenance, employees, payroll. All of it. The only thing they dont do is clean up your books every couple weeks which you can do yourself in less than a couple hours if you have basic accounting skills. And then you just pay an accounting firm to do a final sweep and file your taxes at years end. Thats as close to passive as it gets. Sure you need to be present to make sure nobody is stealing from you and things are running smoothly.

Ive seen plenty of boomers looking to sell their businesses to extract their liquidity and retire.

Ok, sounds pretty easy then. Are you going to buy one?

 

[anonperson]

Ive seen plenty of businesses for sale that have GM’s in place running it for you. They manage stock, maintenance, employees, payroll. All of it. The only thing they dont do is clean up your books every couple weeks which you can do yourself in less than a couple hours if you have basic accounting skills. And then you just pay an accounting firm to do a final sweep and file your taxes at years end. Thats as close to passive as it gets. Sure you need to be present to make sure nobody is stealing from you and things are running smoothly.

Ive seen plenty of boomers looking to sell their businesses to extract their liquidity and retire.

Main issue:
How much capital does this require?
If you already have a large stock pile of cash to invest, is it easier to just passively invest in the market and get similar return on your investment.

 

[Splenda88]

Main issue:
How much capital does this require?
If you already have a large stock pile of cash to invest, is it easier to just passively invest in the market and get similar return on your investment.

That is the key here.

 

[TeslaCoil]

Main issue:
How much capital does this require?
If you already have a large stock pile of cash to invest, is it easier to just passively invest in the market and get similar return on your investment.

The general tule is to find a business thats being sold for 2.5x its cash flow. So yesterday I was looking at one that is selling for 750k and cash flows 300k per year. Thats quite a but of cash flow added to your income stream.

 

[sloh]

Ive seen plenty of businesses for sale that have GM’s in place running it for you. They manage stock, maintenance, employees, payroll. All of it. The only thing they dont do is clean up your books every couple weeks which you can do yourself in less than a couple hours if you have basic accounting skills. And then you just pay an accounting firm to do a final sweep and file your taxes at years end. Thats as close to passive as it gets. Sure you need to be present to make sure nobody is stealing from you and things are running smoothly.

Ive seen plenty of boomers looking to sell their businesses to extract their liquidity and retire.

You're making this sound much easier than it actually is.

Good GM's are hard to find and even harder to keep. Even with a GM, you'll need to stay involved with strategic decisions, fraud detection, morale, leadership. While 2–3x cash flow is common for some small service businesses, it varies widely by industry, growth potential, risk profile, and seller motivation. Many low-multiple businesses are priced that way because they are declining, owner-dependent, or have unverified earnings. “Cash flow” in listings often means seller’s discretionary earnings (SDE), which may include owner salaries, perks, and non-recurring items. You must conduct a full financial and operational due diligence to normalize earnings.

Many businesses rely on relationships with vendors, landlords, and maintenance providers. These may not transfer smoothly.

A "turnkey" business is rarely truly turnkey — backend logistics often unravel without detailed transition planning.

Even with basic accounting skills, managing books across multiple entities, payroll taxes, sales tax, and industry-specific regulations is time-consuming and error-prone.

The “passive” income myth is dangerous. Realistically, most businesses require active oversight, at least quarterly deep dives and weekly check-ins.

$750K for a business locks up significant capital. Compared to an S&P 500 index fund or REITs, this is illiquid, non-diversified, and operator-dependent.

In a worst-case scenario, you can't sell a small business easily or quickly to recover your investment.

Most physicians don’t have the hours to oversee a business, even “passively,” unless they scale back clinical work.

 

[TeslaCoil]

You're making this sound much easier than it actually is.

Good GM's are hard to find and even harder to keep. Even with a GM, you'll need to stay involved with strategic decisions, fraud detection, morale, leadership. While 2–3x cash flow is common for some small service businesses, it varies widely by industry, growth potential, risk profile, and seller motivation. Many low-multiple businesses are priced that way because they are declining, owner-dependent, or have unverified earnings. “Cash flow” in listings often means seller’s discretionary earnings (SDE), which may include owner salaries, perks, and non-recurring items. You must conduct a full financial and operational due diligence to normalize earnings.

Many businesses rely on relationships with vendors, landlords, and maintenance providers. These may not transfer smoothly.

A "turnkey" business is rarely truly turnkey — backend logistics often unravel without detailed transition planning.

Even with basic accounting skills, managing books across multiple entities, payroll taxes, sales tax, and industry-specific regulations is time-consuming and error-prone.

The “passive” income myth is dangerous. Realistically, most businesses require active oversight, at least quarterly deep dives and weekly check-ins.

$750K for a business locks up significant capital. Compared to an S&P 500 index fund or REITs, this is illiquid, non-diversified, and operator-dependent.

In a worst-case scenario, you can't sell a small business easily or quickly to recover your investment.

Most physicians don’t have the hours to oversee a business, even “passively,” unless they scale back clinical work.

Right of course. I get all that. But after doing quite a bit of research there are several business types that really arent that bad to run. Laundromats, storage units, financial firms. It is doable.

 

[sloh]

Right of course. I get all that. But after doing quite a bit of research there are several business types that really arent that bad to run. Laundromats, storage units, financial firms. It is doable.

You’re still making the trade off between risk and time investment vs a doc just making use of the shovel that they trained for, making more money, and investing the additional money into traditional investment vehicles.

 

[finalpsychyear]

The general tule is to find a business thats being sold for 2.5x its cash flow. So yesterday I was looking at one that is selling for 750k and cash flows 300k per year. Thats quite a but of cash flow added to your income stream.

How much of that 300k do u have left over after all overhead, rents, salaries, taxes, licenawa are paid off for the year assuming its accurate? Is it taxed as capital gain or ordinary income?

750 in the market is getting u 75-115k/yr during good years and 0 tax on the first 130k u pull out. Fast forward 5-7 years if u didnt touch it now its 1.5 m giving u 150-200k yearly and the 0 percent capital gain range increases over time.

If ur a doc earning 400-600 even if ur laundry mat has 200k net income u will lose close to half in taxes roughly and net out 100-110.

I like the idea of cash flow but its hard to beat the 0 effort in the market for the working doc though it does make sense for some folks to have both.

Now if u can buy that business with a loan and use the proceeda to grow it or buy more business then thats a differwnt animal but def not really passive as much.

 

[TeslaCoil]

How much of that 300k do u have left over after all overhead, rents, salaries, taxes, licenawa are paid off for the year assuming its accurate? Is it taxed as capital gain or ordinary income?

750 in the market is getting u 75-115k/yr during good years and 0 tax on the first 130k u pull out. Fast forward 5-7 years if u didnt touch it now its 1.5 m giving u 150-200k yearly and the 0 percent capital gain range increases over time.

If ur a doc earning 400-600 even if ur laundry mat has 200k net income u will lose close to half in taxes roughly and net out 100-110.

I like the idea of cash flow but its hard to beat the 0 effort in the market for the working doc though it does make sense for some folks to have both.

Now if u can buy that business with a loan and use the proceeda to grow it or buy more business then thats a differwnt animal but def not really passive as much.

I said cash flow. Cash flow is after overhead and expenses etc are all paid out of revenues. Aka profit. Its taxed as ordinary income, but there are lots of tricks for that.

 

[sloh]

So timely and relevant wrt this topic on buying businesses as "passive" income. Buyer beware

They Bet Their Future on Barbecue Dreams. Many Lost Everything.

Dickey’s, the world’s largest barbecue chain, has a history of deception and broken promises, according to dozens of its franchise owners.

www.nytimes.com

"The owners’ economic woes were compounded, they told the commission, by corporate requirements that prevented them from earning a profit, including a bewildering array of fees and paying above-market rates to vendors affiliated with the parent company. Owners also claimed that corporate managers pressured them to keep money-losing restaurants open and harassed them for speaking publicly against the company.
Dickey’s growth was fueled by partnering with owners who often had little to no restaurant experience but were attracted to the promise of a high return for purportedly low start-up costs.

Franchisees told The Times that Dickey’s sales representatives have also aggressively sold failing locations to new owners, often multiple times. The tactic, they said, reduces the number of closings reported in public filings, and enables fees to continue flowing to the parent company.

A Dickey’s sales representative showed spreadsheets to Mr. Norris and his wife during a meeting while they were at home on leave in 2012. “He told me it was proprietary information, but he was going to show it to us anyway,” Mr. Norris recalled. “It all seemed pretty cut and dry, as long as you follow their program.”
The program included buying supplies and hiring vendors approved by Dickey’s, Mr. Norris said — but they were considerably more expensive than competitors, a complaint owners have also made to the F.T.C.

“I was like an open checkbook, and they just did what they wanted,” he said.

The Norrises’ net worth was $301,000, according to the financial statement they provided to Dickey’s, which was viewed by The Times. Most of that, Mr. Norris said, went toward fees to Dickey’s and other vendors before the restaurant opened in Sanger, Texas, in 2014.

It closed 18 months later. They lost everything, including their home. “My wife and I ended up living in a friend of ours’ garage,” Mr. Norris said. “I would rather Dickey’s have just told me, ‘We appreciate you asking, but you really don’t have enough money to make this work.’”
Nearly all the owners who spoke to The Times said their restaurants’ revenues did not meet expectations set during the sales process, when they said Dickey’s representatives told them how much they could expect to make once their restaurant opened.

Mr. Faust said corporate managers also spoke openly about appealing to immigrants interested in a faster path to permanent resident status. “I have a lot of Patels as owners,” he recalled being told by a Dickey’s executive at a meeting in June 2019.

Harpinder Chauhan, a British citizen of Indian descent, said in an interview last year that he and his wife decided to open a Dickey’s in Florida in 2020 in part so they could qualify for green cards provided to immigrants who invest at least $800,000 in the United States.
“The thing that Dickey’s tells you is, you’re the only one who is struggling,” he said. “That’s why Dickey’s doesn’t want owners talking to each other.” (Dickey’s denied this.)

The lawsuit alleges that Dickey’s provided “false information with respect to costs and revenues” and that the bank knew that information was false when they approved the loans.

Mr. Unsworth owes over $1 million on the loan he took out to open a location in 2023 that Dickey’s said would cost, according to the lawsuit, about $243,000 to $324,000, and that closed three months after opening."

 

[TeslaCoil]

You’re still making the trade off between risk and time investment vs a doc just making use of the shovel that they trained for, making more money, and investing the additional money into traditional investment vehicles.

I mean, a close buddy of mine owns a storage unit complex with uhaul services attached. He swears it is some of the easiest income out there. He has a GM and couple employees. He monitors how many units are rented and the income coming in. There is an automatic gate with a coded entry. Its all automated other than signing people on or off, and auctioning their crap when they dont pay.

 

[TeslaCoil]

So timely and relevant wrt this topic on buying businesses as "passive" income. Buyer beware

They Bet Their Future on Barbecue Dreams. Many Lost Everything.

Dickey’s, the world’s largest barbecue chain, has a history of deception and broken promises, according to dozens of its franchise owners.

www.nytimes.com

Umm ya they clearly had no idea what they were doing. Food service is a terrible bet. Very chancey and very high maintenance.

 

[Maverikk]

Unsexy business and the Original (NYT paywall)
TLDR: the data on Americans who make more than 1.5M a year show that it’s people who are in a controlled market with a consistently needed product (car dealerships and beverage distributors are the example). There was also this great quote:
“The data-driven answer to life is as follows: Be with your love, on an 80-degree and sunny day, overlooking a beautiful body of water, having sex.”

This is the way to go if you’re looking: a business with market controls and provides an essential service with less overhead. My personal opinion is that there’s no truly ‘passive income’ greater than returns on a bond/index fund. If there were people spend their whole day looking for it. Everything else requires work and dedication, the ratio of that is what matters. I’m currently landlording a distant property and would never do that again, I have a friend that owns car washes, no regular employees beyond cleaning/maintenance…still says it takes 10-20 hours a week of books/maintenance/unexpected surprises, but he’s dedicated, has the property which has only gone up and he’s making a profit every month.

 

[Splenda88]

Unsexy business and the Original (NYT paywall)
TLDR: the data on Americans who make more than 1.5M a year show that it’s people who are in a controlled market with a consistently needed product (car dealerships and beverage distributors are the example). There was also this great quote:
“The data-driven answer to life is as follows: Be with your love, on an 80-degree and sunny day, overlooking a beautiful body of water, having sex.”

This is the way to go if you’re looking: a business with market controls and provides an essential service with less overhead. My personal opinion is that there’s no truly ‘passive income’ greater than returns on a bond/index fund. If there were people spend their whole day looking for it. Everything else requires work and dedication, the ratio of that is what matters. I’m currently landlording a distant property and would never do that again, I have a friend that owns car washes, no regular employees beyond cleaning/maintenance…still says it takes 10-20 hours a week of books/maintenance/unexpected surprises, but he’s dedicated, has the property which has only gone up and he’s making a profit every month.

Lol.

 

[eyeeye_captain]

“The data-driven answer to life is as follows: Be with your love, on an 80-degree and sunny day, overlooking a beautiful body of water, having sex.”

They almost got it right

 

[pgg]

My personal opinion is that there’s no truly ‘passive income’ greater than returns on a bond/index fund. If there were people spend their whole day looking for it. Everything else requires work and dedication, the ratio of that is what matters.

Agreed. You see people in these threads touting $500 or $1500 month cash flow on a rental property. Just moonlight or work an extra day or two.

Unless you're going to get into the risk of day trading, options, crypto speculation, etc - none of which are "passive" by any means - you're just not going to outperform grinding away at the lucrative job you trained to do.

If you have a large amount of capital to invest, commercial real estate partnerships seem to be an option. But even that's not without risk. One of our regulars here has done quite well with hotels. On the flip side I knew some doctors who lost their asses on a hospital-adjacent surgicenter partnership, and another person who got into commercial office space riiiiiight before the pandemic hit and work-from-home movement hit that sector like a nuclear bomb. Risk isn't just a word.

Also, spending. Most of this talk about extra shifts, hopping jobs for another $40/hr, living in hotels and rental cars to squeeze a few more $ by doing locums, the investment threads about stocks or crypto FOMO, and now "side hustles" for people earning the better part of $1M per year ... it's spending that controls everyone's fate. Divorce, lavish weddings, leased luxury cars, $17000 Tiffany lamps for the sitting room no one ever sits in, the "need" to live in VHCOL areas, keeping up with the guy with Google stock options down the street, $50K in private middle school tuition, nannies to help stay-at-home spouses cope with the workload, endless examples.

Spending.

THAT'S the truly passive way to boost your savings. Spend less money on **** you don't need that doesn't bring you joy beyond a 30 second dopamine hit.

I’m currently landlording a distant property and would never do that again,

When I was in the military we moved around a few times, as military families do. Each duty station we bought a house, and rented after we left.

Landlording a property 1000s of miles away is difficult. It's so, so dependent on the tenants. One of our houses we rented to a Navy chaplain and his wife. Quiet, responsible, stable employment - ideal tenants. 🙂 One of our tenants ... well let's just say the damage she did to the stairs when constructing a hidey-hole for her drugs was the least of our problems with her.

On the plus side, we made quite a bit of money "passively" by having other people pay mortgages on houses that appreciated. On the minus side, it was a lot less passive than people would have you believe.

You can make it more passive by hiring a management company, but it's a cut from the profits and while they might be hyperfocused on keeping the place occupied, they care a lot less about the ongoing condition of the property than you do.

We sold the last rental a few years ago and don't miss the drama, one bit.

 

[sloh]

I knew some doctors who lost their asses on a hospital-adjacent surgicenter partnership

seems like I'm reading/hearing more about these cases of ASC's just not being worth it anymore.

 

[dmk5n]

some interesting ideas here. https://www.youtube.com/@CodieSanchezCT
i don't have the time for carwashes, vending machines, laundromats....
personally, the most zero effort passive income is VTSAX.

 

[pgg]

some interesting ideas here. https://www.youtube.com/@CodieSanchezCT
i don't have the time for carwashes, vending machines, laundromats....
personally, the most zero effort passive income is VTSAX.

They've built 4 or 5 new car washes here in the last year. I think the town is about 30K people? Fancy franchise chain places. Tidal Wave, Hang 10, etc. Plus all the less-fancy gas station drive thru places. I suppose once the place is built it mints money at $15 per car while consuming 47 cents worth of water and soap and electricity. They sell $20 or $30/month memberships, not per household, but per car. I'm just amazed that the math supports having so, so many of them. I'm not sure I can imagine a less recession-proof business.

 

[operaman]

Agreed. You see people in these threads touting $500 or $1500 month cash flow on a rental property. Just moonlight or work an extra day or two.

Unless you're going to get into the risk of day trading, options, crypto speculation, etc - none of which are "passive" by any means - you're just not going to outperform grinding away at the lucrative job you trained to do.

If you have a large amount of capital to invest, commercial real estate partnerships seem to be an option. But even that's not without risk. One of our regulars here has done quite well with hotels. On the flip side I knew some doctors who lost their asses on a hospital-adjacent surgicenter partnership, and another person who got into commercial office space riiiiiight before the pandemic hit and work-from-home movement hit that sector like a nuclear bomb. Risk isn't just a word.

Also, spending. Most of this talk about extra shifts, hopping jobs for another $40/hr, living in hotels and rental cars to squeeze a few more $ by doing locums, the investment threads about stocks or crypto FOMO, and now "side hustles" for people earning the better part of $1M per year ... it's spending that controls everyone's fate. Divorce, lavish weddings, leased luxury cars, $17000 Tiffany lamps for the sitting room no one ever sits in, the "need" to live in VHCOL areas, keeping up with the guy with Google stock options down the street, $50K in private middle school tuition, nannies to help stay-at-home spouses cope with the workload, endless examples.

Spending.

THAT'S the truly passive way to boost your savings. Spend less money on **** you don't need that doesn't bring you joy beyond a 30 second dopamine hit.



When I was in the military we moved around a few times, as military families do. Each duty station we bought a house, and rented after we left.

Landlording a property 1000s of miles away is difficult. It's so, so dependent on the tenants. One of our houses we rented to a Navy chaplain and his wife. Quiet, responsible, stable employment - ideal tenants. 🙂 One of our tenants ... well let's just say the damage she did to the stairs when constructing a hidey-hole for her drugs was the least of our problems with her.

On the plus side, we made quite a bit of money "passively" by having other people pay mortgages on houses that appreciated. On the minus side, it was a lot less passive than people would have you believe.

You can make it more passive by hiring a management company, but it's a cut from the profits and while they might be hyperfocused on keeping the place occupied, they care a lot less about the ongoing condition of the property than you do.

We sold the last rental a few years ago and don't miss the drama, one bit.

I think you hit it on the nose with spending. Medicine is a second career for me, the first being professional musician, so you can imagine there’s been a substantial bump in income. Intern year was the most money I’d netted up to that point - I felt like I was rich back then!

Nowadays I can’t even begin to spend what I currently make, and believe me I tried awfully hard in the beginning eating fancy meals out every day and buying whatever I wanted, etc. But that got old in about 2-3 months and most of what I love to do now is outdoors and basically free. So after maxing out every tax advantaged option I have, I still just slide big chunks of money into savings and investments every couple months and don’t even notice it missing.

The idea of a side hustle just doesn’t make sense because I don’t know what I’d do with the extra money, and nothing appears to pay remotely what I could make just by opening a Saturday clinic. Maybe if there were something that would offer truly transformational wealth, but those opps come with incredible risks.

In the end, I’d rather have the free time every day and every weekend to enjoy life while I’m healthy enough to do so.

 

[TeslaCoil]

Agreed. You see people in these threads touting $500 or $1500 month cash flow on a rental property. Just moonlight or work an extra day or two.

Unless you're going to get into the risk of day trading, options, crypto speculation, etc - none of which are "passive" by any means - you're just not going to outperform grinding away at the lucrative job you trained to do.

If you have a large amount of capital to invest, commercial real estate partnerships seem to be an option. But even that's not without risk. One of our regulars here has done quite well with hotels. On the flip side I knew some doctors who lost their asses on a hospital-adjacent surgicenter partnership, and another person who got into commercial office space riiiiiight before the pandemic hit and work-from-home movement hit that sector like a nuclear bomb. Risk isn't just a word.

Also, spending. Most of this talk about extra shifts, hopping jobs for another $40/hr, living in hotels and rental cars to squeeze a few more $ by doing locums, the investment threads about stocks or crypto FOMO, and now "side hustles" for people earning the better part of $1M per year ... it's spending that controls everyone's fate. Divorce, lavish weddings, leased luxury cars, $17000 Tiffany lamps for the sitting room no one ever sits in, the "need" to live in VHCOL areas, keeping up with the guy with Google stock options down the street, $50K in private middle school tuition, nannies to help stay-at-home spouses cope with the workload, endless examples.

Spending.

THAT'S the truly passive way to boost your savings. Spend less money on **** you don't need that doesn't bring you joy beyond a 30 second dopamine hit.



When I was in the military we moved around a few times, as military families do. Each duty station we bought a house, and rented after we left.

Landlording a property 1000s of miles away is difficult. It's so, so dependent on the tenants. One of our houses we rented to a Navy chaplain and his wife. Quiet, responsible, stable employment - ideal tenants. 🙂 One of our tenants ... well let's just say the damage she did to the stairs when constructing a hidey-hole for her drugs was the least of our problems with her.

On the plus side, we made quite a bit of money "passively" by having other people pay mortgages on houses that appreciated. On the minus side, it was a lot less passive than people would have you believe.

You can make it more passive by hiring a management company, but it's a cut from the profits and while they might be hyperfocused on keeping the place occupied, they care a lot less about the ongoing condition of the property than you do.

We sold the last rental a few years ago and don't miss the drama, one bit.

Yea but when it comes to real estate its more complex than just the monthly cash flow. If you are running a business with the real estate you take depreciation and deductions- real tax benefits. Most of your gain is in the form of appreciation through time and equity put in via other peoples money. My sis bought 3 doors in a high growth area for around 200-250k a piece about 15 years ago. Only with the minimum down payment, something like 20% Small houses. But because close to the beach, they appreciated rapidly. They’re halfway paid off now via somebody elses money. And each is now worth 650-750k. Dont tell me real estate investing isnt worth it. I myself bought a lake home for 900k in 2021. Put 100k in capital improvements, sold it 3 years later for 1.5.

 

[pgg]

Yea but when it comes to real estate its more complex than just the monthly cash flow. If you are running a business with the real estate you take depreciation and deductions- real tax benefits. Most of your gain is in the form of appreciation through time and equity put in via other peoples money. My sis bought 3 doors in a high growth area for around 200-250k a piece about 15 years ago. Only with the minimum down payment, something like 20% Small houses. But because close to the beach, they appreciated rapidly. They’re halfway paid off now via somebody elses money. And each is now worth 650-750k. Dont tell me real estate investing isnt worth it. I myself bought a lake home for 900k in 2021. Put 100k in capital improvements, sold it 3 years later for 1.5.

Agreed.

Real estate investments can take advantage of leverage in a way most other investments can't. A bank will readily lend you 100s of thousands of dollars for an investment property at a low interest rate. Ask them for money on those terms for any other kind of startup business and they'll laugh at you.

I never said real estate wasn't worth it. I'm arguing that it's not passive and I'm arguing that there's risk. The housing crash of the 2000s wasn't that long ago but a lot of people in real estate threads like to pretend it didn't happen.

 

[MirrorTodd]

An update on my options plays…I accidentally became a short seller over the weekend. lol