Physicians need to have better PR campaign...

[libertyyne]

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These verbal descriptors are bogus... 90 IQ is miles apart from 109 IQ

sure thing.
If you take the standard error of 7, they are not really. But the point of this was even if they were far apart yet 40% of americans have the IQ to become a physician.

 

[Dr. Doctor MD]

40% of americans have the IQ to be able to practice medicine.

Come on man, I've seen your posts and you're usually pretty smart and data driven. Please look at what the data actually says. You're (unintentionally) misinterpreting this data. This is like saying someone matched derm with a 205 last year, therefore anyone with a 205 can match derm. That is the point that you are making but for medical school, "if there are any doctors with an IQ of 100-110, then that means most people with that IQ could become doctors" Change that to plastic surgery and you'll see the error of your reasoning "There are people with 200-220 who match pastic surgery every year, therefore that means people with 200-220 can match plastic surgery" This is misinterpretation of the data. These are outliers. for every one of them there are 10 others who couldn't do it.

The fact that someone can be a doctor with an IQ of 100 DOES NOT MEAN THAT ANYONE WITH THAT IQ CAN BE A DOCTOR.

Please answer my question I posed earlier:
If you took 100 random people with an IQ of 100 and enrolled them in medical school, how many of them would be able to pass?

 

[libertyyne]

Come on man, I've seen your posts and you're usually pretty smart and data driven. Please look at what the data actually says. You're (unintentionally) misinterpreting this data. This is like saying someone matched derm with a 205 last year, therefore anyone with a 205 can match derm. That is the point that you are making but for medical school, "if there are any doctors with an IQ of 100-110, then that means most people with that IQ could become doctors" Change that to plastic surgery and you'll see the error of your reasoning "There are people with 200-220 who match pastic surgery every year, therefore that means people with 200-220 can match plastic surgery" This is misinterpretation of the data. These are outliers. for every one of them there are 10 others who couldn't do it.

The fact that someone can be a doctor with an IQ of 100 DOES NOT MEAN THAT ANYONE WITH THAT IQ CAN BE A DOCTOR.

Please answer my question I posed earlier:
If you took 100 random people with an IQ of 100 and enrolled them in medical school, how many of them would be able to pass?

Look , its pretty simple the data states that there was a cutoff on the lower end. You dont know if that cuttoff was because people lower than that did not have the mental capacity to make it through medical school, or if medical schools would not even accept those people, or that people below that threshold would fail out of medical school.

I dont know the answer to that question, because I am not here to make up data. We dont know what percent of people applied , failed out, this was just a raw sample of physicians. and roughly ~15% of physicians is not just some sampling error.

I have already told you that there are many reasons why people cant become physicians and part of that might have to do with not having an education above hs, or not even wanting to spend 10 years of their lives in school.

 

[Ho0v-man]

I think everyone is getting really stressed about this whole IQ thing. I think IQ should be P/F to protect everyone’s feelings. Then we can assess IQ the correct way. And by that I mean we need to have our friends write letters to people telling them we’re smart.

 

[Dr. Doctor MD]

Look , its pretty simple the data states that there was a cutoff on the lower end. You dont know if that cuttoff was because people lower than that did not have the mental capacity to make it through medical school, or if medical schools would not even accept those people, or that people below that threshold would fail out of medical school.

I dont know the answer to that question, because I am not here to make up data. We dont know what percent of people applied , failed out, this was just a raw sample of physicians. and roughly ~15% of physicians is not just some sampling error.

I have already told you that there are many reasons why people cant become physicians and part of that might have to do with not having an education above hs, or not even wanting to spend 10 years of their lives in school.

I'm glad you finally admitted to the bolded, because that is what directly contradicts the ridiculous statement "The average person could pass medical school and be a doctor". We don't actually know what percent of the average population (IQ 100) could succeed in medical school. I think it's very low, you obviously seem to think it's higher, but that's besides the point, because we don't have that data.

The only data driven statement you could make is that:
"There are people with average IQ that pass medical school and become doctors"
This statement is supported by the fact that some doctors exist with a lower IQ (~100)

You can not say:
"The average person/average IQ ~100 could pass medical school and become a doctor"
Because in order to know this you would need to know what % of average Americans could succeed in medical school, and you don't have that data.

It's kind of like saying, "since there are some basketball players in the NBA with a height of 6'0, the average 6'0 person could play in the NBA" Yes, there are people who are 6'0 in the NBA, but we can't say that the average 6'0 person could play in the NBA.

Do you understand the difference between the two bolded statements from above, and which one is supported by the data. This is why I want to correct you @libertyyne and @Matthew9Thirtyfive when you make the latter claim, because it is logically wrong and doesn't have any data to support it.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I really want to make sure you understand the difference between those two statements. Do you understand the point that I'm making about what claims you can and can't make from the data?

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I'm glad you finally admitted to the bolded, because that is what directly contradicts the ridiculous statement "The average person could pass medical school and be a doctor". We don't actually know what percent of the average population (IQ 100) could succeed in medical school. I think it's very low, you obviously seem to think it's higher, but that's besides the point, because we don't have that data.

The only data driven statement you could make is that:
"There are people with average IQ that pass medical school and become doctors"
This statement is supported by the fact that some doctors exist with a lower IQ (~100)

You can not say:
"The average person/average IQ ~100 could pass medical school and become a doctor"
Because in order to know this you would need to know what % of average Americans could succeed in medical school, and you don't have that data.

It's kind of like saying, "since there are some basketball players in the NBA with a height of 6'0, the average 6'0 person could play in the NBA" Yes, there are people who are 6'0 in the NBA, but we can't say that the average 6'0 person could play in the NBA.

Do you understand the difference between the two bolded statements from above, and which one is supported by the data. This is why I want to correct you @libertyyne and @Matthew9Thirtyfive when you make the latter claim, because it is logically wrong and doesn't have any data to support it.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I really want to make sure you understand the difference between those two statements. Do you understand the point that I'm making about what claims you can and can't make from the data?

The former is all I’m saying. But the fact that people of average iq make it through med school means that a person with average intelligence is capable of making it through med school. It’s a tautology.

I’m not saying any random average iq person can make it through just like I wouldn’t say any random above average iq person could make it through. There are more factors than just intelligence that goes into it.

But there are people in this thread who are literally saying passing med school requires an above average intelligence.

 

[libertyyne]

I'm glad you finally admitted to the bolded, because that is what directly contradicts the ridiculous statement "The average person could pass medical school and be a doctor". We don't actually know what percent of the average population (IQ 100) could succeed in medical school. I think it's very low, you obviously seem to think it's higher, but that's besides the point, because we don't have that data.

The only data driven statement you could make is that:
"There are people with average IQ that pass medical school and become doctors"
This statement is supported by the fact that some doctors exist with a lower IQ (~100)

You can not say:
"The average person/average IQ ~100 could pass medical school and become a doctor"
Because in order to know this you would need to know what % of average Americans could succeed in medical school, and you don't have that data.

It's kind of like saying, "since there are some basketball players in the NBA with a height of 6'0, the average 6'0 person could play in the NBA" Yes, there are people who are 6'0 in the NBA, but we can't say that the average 6'0 person could play in the NBA.

Do you understand the difference between the two bolded statements from above, and which one is supported by the data. This is why I want to correct you @libertyyne and @Matthew9Thirtyfive when you make the latter claim, because it is logically wrong and doesn't have any data to support it.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I really want to make sure you understand the difference between those two statements. Do you understand the point that I'm making about what claims you can and can't make from the data?

Lets be clear. I have only claimed that people with an average to above average intelligence are capable of becoming doctors. Average defined by 90-109, above average 110-119.

The argument was of raw intellectual talent. There is sufficient evidence to say that people of 105+ are capable of becoming physicians and practicing. 40% of the population falls in this category.

Now there are other determinants , like drive, hard work , ability to grind required to make it through medical school. But that does not mean that people with IQs of 130+ possess those attributes more than the students in the 105+ range.

You cant make the argument that people below 110 are magically incapable of becoming physicians or that they fail out of medical schools more often, or incapable of being accepted into medical school. Because you dont have the data either.

 

[Dantrolene FC]

I think my IQ has dropped to the average level after reading all these posts.

 

[Dr. Doctor MD]

The former is all I’m saying. But the fact that people of average iq make it through med school means that a person with average intelligence is capable of making it through med school. It’s a tautology.

I’m not saying any random average iq person can make it through just like I wouldn’t say any random above average iq person could make it through. There are more factors than just intelligence that goes into it.

Cool, I think we are on the same page then. I just didn't want the latter statement to be promulgated on this thread (especially by prominent members such as you and libertyyne). Based on the responses from myself and others, I think that very important distinction did at one point get lost in the earlier discussion.

Lets be clear. I have only claimed that people with an average to above average intelligence are capable of becoming doctors. Average defined by 90-109, above average 110-119.

You cant make the argument that people below 110 are magically incapable of becoming physicians or that they fail out of medical schools more often, or incapable of being accepted into medical school. Because you dont have the data either.

Great, I think we are also on the same page as far as the first bolded statement in your response. As for the second bolded part of your response, you're absolutely right that I can't definitively prove my hypothesis that "IQs of 100 or lower will likely have a high failure rate in medical school". However, I can still make an argument for why I think this to be the case, and have done so in my past posts. But you're right, I can't prove this with data, because it doesn't exist yet, and unfortunately probably never will. So for now it remains my opinion.

----------------
I'm very glad we were able to clarify the point, because I think it is very reasonable to say that "there are people with average intelligence who can and do succeed in medical school", but it would be incorrect and inflammatory to state "the average person could pass medical school and be a doctor"

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

I get it. You want to feel like what you did is something most people couldn’t do. That’s probably true, but I don’t think it’s because the average person is not smart enough. There are a multitude of reasons most people can’t or won’t do it.

And actually, @MedicineZ0Z did say that even an above average intelligence isn’t enough. Which is ludicrous.

Lack of ability is almost always the reason why someone isn't able to achieve something. And it's politically incorrect to say that 🙂
And sure there are a multitude of reasons, but doesn't change the fact over what the #1 reason is.

And because an educated person's perception of average intelligence is truly above-average in society. When you spend your whole life interacting with smart folks, it skews your perception. Again, I'm telling you I've seen people who weren't dumb, who worked brutally hard and could never pull off decent grades.

yeah, i went to a CC, and tutored there as well, and there were a few that actually ended up in medicine.

a 22 is a 32nd percentile ,and a 496 is that, many people get in with those scores, and pass just fine.

There is actual evidence stating the opposite of what you are claiming, yet you want to stick with that anecdote. Literal evidence stating that there was a large chunk of people with average intelligence . In an era when it was more difficult to get into medical school.

That 496 person had a very high GPA and that's why they got in. You make it sound like people have low GPAs and low MCATs and still get in.. doesn't work like that. Also, those people either had a bad day on the MCAT OR they end up struggling in med school/fail or do poorly on boards and/or make up the 10% attrition rate in DO schools.
Another reason why carib schools have high fail out rates despite getting WAY more time to study than US schools. Are you going to make up some excuse for that too ??

I think a 22 was a 28th percentile, and a 494 now. You are talking about people <5% of med students with extenuating circumstances + (some URM and people in Puerto Rican schools)

Classic argument against doctors. Take the extreme ends (<5th percentiles) and compare them to the top 5% of something else. It's done with everything!

Just because a select few people with an IQ of 100 become doctors doesn't mean that anyone with an IQ of a 100 can become doctors. This is a gross misrepresentation of the data. There will always be outliers, you can't make your case based on them.

Please don't act like people with an IQ of 100 make up even a tiny proportion of medical school classes. The graph here has the bottom 10 percentile at like a 107 IQ. These sub 110 students are very rare and likely don't represent your typical person with an IQ of 100-110. Simply put IQ isn't a perfect indicator, and the people with low IQs who pass medical school likely are significantly different than if we were to pull 10 random people with the same IQ from the population. I have worked with and tutored students across the spectrum of intelligence and work ethic, and I have seen some incredibly hard working and great people who just could not keep up in college or medical school. These students were by all regards above average in many regards, but just weren't able to grasp the complex material that we learn. It is laughable to think that you could pull anyone from the average population and expect them not to fail out of medical school. The real problem is that people here (myself included) have no idea how different the average American is from us. We live in big cities, surrounded by the smartest people in the world, and even the patients we interact with tend to not be representative of the greater population. Don't let yourself get tricked into thinking because the people you know might be able to handle medical school, that somehow anyone could do it. When you've actually met "average americans" you'll realize very quickly that 90% could never even pass medical school. I know countless people who couldn't even pass the lowest levels of certication (CNA, vet techs, dental hygienists, radiology technicians, associate degrees) after trying multiple times. So if some average americans can't complete some of the most basic degree programs or certifications, what in the world would make you think the average person could complete one of the fastest paced and most complex doctorate programs?

You need a serious reality check if you think that even 75% of the general population could handle the rigors and complexity of medical school and residency. The people you imagine as "average" are no where near the average. The average reading level in America is around the 6th grade, how TF do you think they will ever be able to read robbins or even first aid?

lol your post is literally what I keep trying to explain.

Maybe I can summarize it : Take some of the reallyyyyy dumb people you can think of - that's your AVERAGE person. Now take someone who seems quite bright to your, that's your above-average.

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

I can't fathom the flagrant disregard from reality of anyone making the claim that "The average American could pass medical school and be a doctor". This is a misinformed, ignorant, and non-data-backed opinion. This belief just exemplifies how out of touch one can be with the average american.

To say any of the following is equally misinformed, ignorant, and out of touch.
"The average american could be a doctor"
"The average american could be a rocket scientist"
"The average american could be a PhD"
"The average american could be an accountant"
"The average american could be an engineer"
"The average american could be a CFO"

The average American doesn't even have a college degree
The average American reads at a 6th grade level
The average American could not pass medical school

While some, average Americans, may be able to succeed in any of these fields, it would be the exception rather than the rule.

You have to be politically correct. Blame lack of success 100% on lack of opportunity (because the rich greedy guys took it away) and never on anything else. Genetics aren't a thing, despite the fact that they literally program you. Lack of work ethic isn't laziness, it's cause you had to work 3 jobs to support 7 kids (that you couldn't ever afford to have, but who cares).

This is all idealist idealogy.

Lol what? They are not even remotely the same.

Of course they are. Athletics and arts don't coun to you? and why?

 

[libertyyne]

Lack of ability is almost always the reason why someone isn't able to achieve something. And it's politically incorrect to say that 🙂
And sure there are a multitude of reasons, but doesn't change the fact over what the #1 reason is.

And because an educated person's perception of average intelligence is truly above-average in society. When you spend your whole life interacting with smart folks, it skews your perception. Again, I'm telling you I've seen people who weren't dumb, who worked brutally hard and could never pull off decent grades.

That 496 person had a very high GPA and that's why they got in. You make it sound like people have low GPAs and low MCATs and still get in.. doesn't work like that. Also, those people either had a bad day on the MCAT OR they end up struggling in med school/fail or do poorly on boards and/or make up the 10% attrition rate in DO schools.
Another reason why carib schools have high fail out rates despite getting WAY more time to study than US schools. Are you going to make up some excuse for that too ??




Classic argument against doctors. Take the extreme ends (<5th percentiles) and compare them to the top 5% of something else. It's done with everything!



lol your post is literally what I keep trying to explain.

Maybe I can summarize it : Take some of the reallyyyyy dumb people you can think of - that's your AVERAGE person. Now take someone who seems quite bright to your, that's your above-average.

GPAs mean squat. We have already gone over this.
There is literal evidence saying that it is possible to become a practicing doctor with a 105+ iq. This was the threshold for talent.
So literally 40 percent of the population is above or at that threshold of talent.

 

[LongevityEscapeVelocity]

GPAs mean squat. We have already gone over this.
There is literal evidence saying that it is possible to become a practicing doctor with a 105+ iq. This was the threshold for talent.
So literally 40 percent of the population is above or at that threshold of talent.

I dont think you guys have analyzed iq tests and taken notice of the ease at which its possible to get a score of 105. If you took the 30 minutes to go through one i think your opinions would change.

i also think 90% of people who get 105 could get to 115 with some practice or just from spending more time on the questions

they only become indicative of intelligence when the scores are over 120

here are some tests that while not "valid" give a rough estimate:

IQ Test Made by Mensa Norway - Mensa Norway

test.mensa.no

IQ Test - Mensa Danmark

Test din IQ med Mensa Danmarks for-sjov test

mensa.dk

IQzilla 1 - Brainzilla

Find the patterns in each of the 38 questions of this IQ Test to get your IQ score.

www.brainzilla.com

Free Online IQ Test (No Email + 5 Mins + Instant Results)

Test your IQ and get instant results with this free, online IQ test! No need to register or share your email.

practicalpie.com

IQzilla 2 - Brainzilla

Figure out all the patterns in this spatial/matrix IQ test.

www.brainzilla.com

my personal opinion is that test.mensa.no is the most accurate

105 is too low of a benchmark to measure anything


to state the obvious getting 105+ is light years below the difficulty level of anything you're going to deal with in med school, I don't think anyone is going to volunteer the scores at which they start to struggle to go above to give some point of reference to these posts.

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

GPAs mean squat. We have already gone over this.
There is literal evidence saying that it is possible to become a practicing doctor with a 105+ iq. This was the threshold for talent.
So literally 40 percent of the population is above or at that threshold of talent.

If that's your idea of "evidence" to use for any population , I'm terrified of what your idea of evidence-based medicine is going to be for your patients. And even if we go off that false notion, thresholds mean nothing. You can't look at the bottom 5th percentile of everything to make your argument. There are outliers in everything. Those people with 105 IQs or whatever you want to call it - tend to have much higher degrees of mental capacity when it comes to certain cognitive functions and lack in others; thereby their global IQ score is lower. Those functions that they are stronger in are what they ultimately use in medicine. Hence why some bright med students will struggle a lot in anatomy yet do very well in other subjects.


What year are you in though? Have you had any clinical experience yet? Just wait till you try to explain a dumbed down version of a simple disease process to a (average intelligent) patient. Your perception of average intelligence is so insanely skewed that it shows your bias towards being politically correct at all costs.

 

[libertyyne]

If that's your idea of "evidence" to use for any population , I'm terrified of what your idea of evidence-based medicine is going to be for your patients. And even if we go off that false notion, thresholds mean nothing. You can't look at the bottom 5th percentile of everything to make your argument. There are outliers in everything. Those people with 105 IQs or whatever you want to call it - tend to have much higher degrees of mental capacity when it comes to certain cognitive functions and lack in others; thereby their global IQ score is lower. Those functions that they are stronger in are what they ultimately use in medicine. Hence why some bright med students will struggle a lot in anatomy yet do very well in other subjects.


What year are you in though? Have you had any clinical experience yet? Just wait till you try to explain a dumbed down version of a simple disease process to a (average intelligent) patient. Your perception of average intelligence is so insanely skewed that it shows your bias towards being politically correct at all costs.

Once again on personal attacks. When you cant make a coherent argument you just attack the person.

You claimed that there was some genetic talent that was out of the reach for large swaths of the population to become a physican. IQ is a raw measure that provides that, considering people like to say an unusually smart population takes the mcat.


The study indicated that 15% of practicing physicians had IQs less than 110, with a full 50% having IQs less than 120. Literally average to above average.

You are just making up additional mental capacities now that are magically present in higher proportions in those students that constitute 105. Without a shred of evidence.

lastly you are again trying to attack my credentials instead of attacking any arguments. Have you even thought that someone trying to explain computer programming to you would think of you as a simpleton as well.

I dont care about being politically correct, but you seem to be vested in the idea of your own intelligence that stems out of your career. Hate to break it to you, but there are plenty of docs with average intelligence.

 

[Meerkatology]

They both went on a rant about how docs are aloof to the problem of the common folks. Why do the general public have that kind of sentiment about us? I don't get it because most of the docs I have worked with are genuine people who care about the wellbeing of their patients

i think part of it has to do with the fact that doctors do not/cannot spend alot of time talking to every patient like nurses can.
a nurse is there for entire shifts taking care of 3-5 patients.

while we may have 20-30minutes to talk a patient on a new hospital admission and maybe 10 minutes for an office visit.
we don't want to hear a 80year old patient yap on for 5 minutes on every h&p question, we don't have the time and luxury to have a friendly conversation about their lives and hear what THEY want to tell us. we don't have the luxury to listen to every family member's input about the patient's condition and be sensitive about each of their feelings. we have to cut them off to get the 3 relevant points of information for patient care or billing or w/e.

if that comes off as being aloof, i don't know what there is to do about it.

its easy to get a patient/family to like me if i have 2 hours to spend with them everyday.
if i only have 10 minutes, well then, its gonna take alot of iv dilaudid

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Of course they are. Athletics and arts don't coun to you? and why?

Being a professional athlete takes a lot of things besides just hard work, and generally they are things you can’t really overcome by just working hard. Having a high raw intelligence and talent will make medical school a lot easier, but you can get by on hard work as long as you are of at least average intelligence.

 

[Dantrolene FC]

Being a professional athlete takes a lot of things besides just hard work, and generally they are things you can’t really overcome by just working hard. Having a high raw intelligence and talent will make medical school a lot easier, but you can get by on hard work as long as you are of at least average intelligence.

I think the average person could do it, just not in the traditional 4 year time frame.

But passing step 1 is another discussion.

 

[pbrocks15]

I do believe that investing in yourself early in life should pay off generously.
Why should an 18 yo college kid work hard through prime years to get into a strong MD school, where they continued grinding it out relentlessly to match into a competitive residency program (after which they have earned many more years of hard work in residency and fellowship)?
One hour of this kind of person's work should be exponentially more valuable than an ordinary persons, and that is why simply comparing hours worked is not a good comparison.

Furthermore the skill is different. You can work repetitive jobs for 100 hours a week. But if the higher order level of reasoning and level of risk is not there, you should not be compensated any where close per hour.

This x100000. I felt this in my bones

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

Once again on personal attacks. When you cant make a coherent argument you just attack the person.

You claimed that there was some genetic talent that was out of the reach for large swaths of the population to become a physican. IQ is a raw measure that provides that, considering people like to say an unusually smart population takes the mcat.


The study indicated that 15% of practicing physicians had IQs less than 110, with a full 50% having IQs less than 120. Literally average to above average.

You are just making up additional mental capacities now that are magically present in higher proportions in those students that constitute 105. Without a shred of evidence.

lastly you are again trying to attack my credentials instead of attacking any arguments. Have you even thought that someone trying to explain computer programming to you would think of you as a simpleton as well.

I dont care about being politically correct, but you seem to be vested in the idea of your own intelligence that stems out of your career. Hate to break it to you, but there are plenty of docs with average intelligence.

IQ is not an accurate nor comprehensive measure of brain power. And "talent" is very specific as is intelligence. I'm literally trying to teach you this stuff and you keep dismissing it due to your held beliefs on the topic. Ultimately, you don't want to offend anyone. I get it.

Being a professional athlete takes a lot of things besides just hard work, and generally they are things you can’t really overcome by just working hard. Having a high raw intelligence and talent will make medical school a lot easier, but you can get by on hard work as long as you are of at least average intelligence.

Lol dude you're seriously delusional or you're trolling. I don't know how else to tell you this, the average person is very dumb! Literally take some of the dumbest people you've ever met in your life - that is your median baseline point in American society. There are literally huge populations and cohorts in America who would struggle to pass high school. Millions of people wouldn't be able to pass a college course even if their life depended on it.

You can't take YOUR idea of average which is based on the people you've met - and apply that to society.
I'll tell you again, a majority of people could not even get a science degree with a 2.5 GPA. No matter if they studied 16 hours a day.

I think the average person could do it, just not in the traditional 4 year time frame.

But passing step 1 is another discussion.

I've tutored people who couldn't even grasp common undergrad chemistry concepts after the 14th time.

 

[libertyyne]

IQ is not an accurate nor comprehensive measure of brain power. And "talent" is very specific as is intelligence. I'm literally trying to teach you this stuff and you keep dismissing it due to your held beliefs on the topic. Ultimately, you don't want to offend anyone. I get it.


Lol dude you're seriously delusional or you're trolling. I don't know how else to tell you this, the average person is very dumb! Literally take some of the dumbest people you've ever met in your life - that is your median baseline point in American society. There are literally huge populations and cohorts in America who would struggle to pass high school. Millions of people wouldn't be able to pass a college course even if their life depended on it.

You can't take YOUR idea of average which is based on the people you've met - and apply that to society.
I'll tell you again, a majority of people could not even get a science degree with a 2.5 GPA. No matter if they studied 16 hours a day.

I've tutored people who couldn't even grasp common undergrad chemistry concepts after the 14th time.

ah yes, move the goal post when you get cornered.

There are literally pages and pages of you expounding on how most people dont have the "talent" which you interchange with intelligence on multiple occasions to complete medical school. Yet when you are provided with the best tool we have to estimate raw intellgence, IQ, you now somehow change what you mean by talent and intelligence required.

It seems like you will do what ever it takes to maintain your world view , even when there is clear evidence to contradict it.

It must hurt to think that 40% of people have the minimum IQ required to become a physician if you have soo much vested in this idea of your own uniqueness and capabilities.

 

[CherryRedDracul]

USMLE Step 1 is not a proxy IQ test.
USMLE Step 1 is not a proxy IQ test.
USMLE Step 1 is not a proxy IQ test.
USMLE Step 1 is not a proxy IQ test.
USMLE Step 1 is not a proxy IQ test.
USMLE Step 1 is not a proxy IQ test.
USMLE Step 1 is not a proxy IQ test.
USMLE Step 1 is not a proxy IQ test.
USMLE Step 1 is not a proxy IQ test.
USMLE Step 1 is not a proxy IQ test.

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

ah yes, move the goal post when you get cornered.

There are literally pages and pages of you expounding on how most people dont have the "talent" which you interchange with intelligence on multiple occasions to complete medical school. Yet when you are provided with the best tool we have to estimate raw intellgence, IQ, you now somehow change what you mean by talent and intelligence required.

It seems like you will do what ever it takes to maintain your world view , even when there is clear evidence to contradict it.

It must hurt to think that 40% of people have the minimum IQ required to become a physician if you have soo much vested in this idea of your own uniqueness and capabilities.

Actually, it's you who is trying to push nonsensical arguments in order to maintain your world view. Ultimately, you want to make intelligent/looks (again, the two things which offend people) irrelevant to success.

I didn't move the goal posts. Your understanding of intelligence is just extremely superficial.

 

[libertyyne]

Actually, it's you who is trying to push nonsensical arguments in order to maintain your world view. Ultimately, you want to make intelligent/looks (again, the two things which offend people) irrelevant to success.

I didn't move the goal posts. Your understanding of intelligence is just extremely superficial.

I literally proved to you with our best tool of measuring intelligence IQ, that there is not a high threshold to be a practicing physician.

I actually agree that looks are completely pertinent to success and are mostly a lottery of genetics and what ever is culturally beautiful at the time.

Seems like you have little ground to stand on, or are incapable of defending your claims with reasoning or evidence. But your only retort is to insult a person making the argument and not refute anything in the argument. got it.

 

[Splenda88]

Kudos to these people with IQ of < 110 who are able to become physician...

 

[Dantrolene FC]

Guys, I’m sorry if this is off topic, but I totally agree that physicians need a better PR campaign.

 

[Chemist0157]

Maybe some doctors should just stay away from the public...

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Okay well I’m not entirely innocent here, but this has strayed completely off topic for a while. I’m going to give it one more chance to get back on topic.

To be clear, that means discussing physician image and PR campaigns. If the IQ talk continues, the thread will have to be closed. There are other places where that conversation can continue, but it has derailed this thread long enough. I will not be posting anymore on that topic, and I don’t want anyone else to either.