Plagiarism IA with mcat score- what do I do?

[LeeSin]

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[DNAJB6]

I wrote about this before in this post . Long story short, I plagiarized in the spring of my 2nd year (spring 2019)--> grade reduced from A- to B+, and I am trying to keep my dreams alive.

You're very lucky. At my school you would have failed the course at best and risk expulsion and having all of your grades cancelled.

 

[DNAJB6]

It is going to hurt, but I don't consider it lethal like I would if you obtained advance copies of exams, copied someone's exam questions, etc. If there is enough time that has elapsed at the time of application and you have a clean record otherwise, I think you can over come it. It will be important to own up to it (without making excuses) and explain/show how you have learned from it.

I would apply while the MCAT is valid. I think a gap year or two will probably be okay.

 

[candbgirl]

Nobody is going to tell you that you are a failure. And as you were told 8 months ago we don’t know if you have a chance-but you might. Not that much has changed since May 2020. Except a very good MCAT score-congratulations. Before you make any decisions you have to get your mental health/emotions under control. You talked about losing your hair from the stress and eight months later you are still a wreck. I understand but you have to get yourself together. You are slowly destroying yourself and you don’t want that. Have you talked to a counselor? You should. You need some coping strategies and a plan to move on from this incident. I’m sure part of your angst is the uncertainty of your future. But there isn’t any good reason to keep battering yourself mentally. You made a giant mistake but it seems like you are trying to repair the damage as best as you can. So be proud of that and continue on your path.
I don’t think you should consider applying in June 2021. You aren’t ready yet. It’s only two years from the incident. You’ve continued college stuff but you haven’t put enough time between you and what happened. You are still in your comfort zone. A year or two of Americorps or something similar will allow you to grow and help you look realistically at your future.
Remember that only around 40-42% of all applicants each cycle are accepted. That’s why people on SDN always advise to consider yourself rejected until you have an acceptance. You can’t change the past you can only control and prepare for the future.

Take care of yourself first. Good luck.

 

[Goro]

I wrote about this before in this post . Long story short, I plagiarized in the spring of my 2nd year (spring 2019)--> grade reduced from A- to B+, and I am trying to keep my dreams alive. I took the MCAT this past summer (September 2020) and scored a 517 (130/127/131/129). my final gpa is looking to be around 3.86.

What do I do now? I'm planning on doing Americorps for a gap year and then applying after (June 2022).

I'm also feeling pressured to apply this summer which would be 2 years after. I have so much anxiety due to this I really am a wreck. I'm a wreck because I feel like I've ruined my life. I'm a wreck because like most of the people on this forum, I have an overwhelming fear of failure which is becoming all too real.

Can someone offer me some advice? 2 gap years? 1? 3 and let my MCAT score expire and retake? What do I do? I know with things like this there is no right answer but I really have tried to work with the professor and he mentioned he could write me a lor.

I would appreciate any advice/criticism. Tell me I'm a failure, tell me I have a chance, just tell me something, please.

Not all plagiarism IAs are the same. What exactly did you do?

 

[candbgirl]

From March 2020:

• Mar 2, 2020
• #1

Apologies in advance if I'm posting this in the wrong place. I want to make this as brief as possible, to not waste anyone's time for reading.

I cheated. Specifically, I plagiarized. Biology lab last year.So the spring quarter of my 2nd year (I'm now a third-year). Long story short, I referenced a friend's lab report and turns out the mind is more powerful than I thought because I unintentionally (meaning I didn't get their lab report to copy) structured it similarly, and took phrases here and there, which..... is plagiarism. 100% cut and dry. I guess by telling myself that I didn't want to plagiarize makes me feel like I'm not a ****ty person although the deed is done.

In any case, the results:
Admitted to it

I got a 0 on the paper (Grade went from A- to B+). IA with the school (deferred suspension) for 2 years. Basically no immediate 'you can't attend our school' just a big HUGE warning.


The only thing that's been keeping me going is the hope, that somehow someway I still have a chance. I just realized that, if I don't... I should probably know now rather than in like 4 years + a big fat case of depression....

 

[LeeSin]

Nobody is going to tell you that you are a failure. And as you were told 8 months ago we don’t know if you have a chance-but you might. Not that much has changed since May 2020. Except a very good MCAT score-congratulations. Before you make any decisions you have to get your mental health/emotions under control. You talked about losing your hair from the stress and eight months later you are still a wreck. I understand but you have to get yourself together. You are slowly destroying yourself and you don’t want that. Have you talked to a counselor? You should. You need some coping strategies and a plan to move on from this incident. I’m sure part of your angst is the uncertainty of your future. But there isn’t any good reason to keep battering yourself mentally. You made a giant mistake but it seems like you are trying to repair the damage as best as you can. So be proud of that and continue on your path.
I don’t think you should consider applying in June 2021. You aren’t ready yet. It’s only two years from the incident. You’ve continued college stuff but you haven’t put enough time between you and what happened. You are still in your comfort zone. A year or two of Americorps or something similar will allow you to grow and help you look realistically at your future.
Remember that only around 40-42% of all applicants each cycle are accepted. That’s why people on SDN always advise to consider yourself rejected until you have an acceptance. You can’t change the past you can only control and prepare for the future.

Take care of yourself first. Good luck.

I think this is what I needed to hear. The phrase "slowly destroying yourself" actually gave me chills because it's so true. I oftentimes feel like a shell of who I was even 6 months ago. I think even maybe me wanting to apply this year is just the anxiety getting to me. You're right, it's too early I'll apply right before the score expires then. Thank you so much for your response you have no idea how much I appreciate it

 

[LeeSin]

You're very lucky. At my school you would have failed the course at best and risk expulsion and having all of your grades cancelled.

I'm beyond lucky. I'm at a t20 undergrad as well which is shocking to me. The kindness the professor showed me was unbelievable. The door seemed to have been shut in my face just enough where there might be a chance to actually go to med school which is why I'm so anxious about it. Thank you for your reply kind sir

 

[Goro]

not all plagiarism IAs are the same but unfortunately my plagiarism IA is as bad as it gets (barring just copy and pasting). Basically read over a friend's lab report and mine turned out very similar although the differences are obvious the methodology and overall structure was the same. So yeah, I'm about as bad as they come.

You need to put as much time as possible between this incident and your application.

But see to your mental health first. Medical school is a crucible.

 

[LindaAccepted]

I wrote about this before in this post . Long story short, I plagiarized in the spring of my 2nd year (spring 2019)--> grade reduced from A- to B+, and I am trying to keep my dreams alive. I took the MCAT this past summer (September 2020) and scored a 517 (130/127/131/129). my final gpa is looking to be around 3.86.

What do I do now? I'm planning on doing Americorps for a gap year and then applying after (June 2022).

I'm also feeling pressured to apply this summer which would be 2 years after. I have so much anxiety due to this I really am a wreck. I'm a wreck because I feel like I've ruined my life. I'm a wreck because like most of the people on this forum, I have an overwhelming fear of failure which is becoming all too real.

Can someone offer me some advice? 2 gap years? 1? 3 and let my MCAT score expire and retake? What do I do? I know with things like this there is no right answer but I really have tried to work with the professor and he mentioned he could write me a lor.

I would appreciate any advice/criticism. Tell me I'm a failure, tell me I have a chance, just tell me something, please.

I think you're beating yourself up too much.

You made a mistake. People make mistakes. Even pre-meds make mistakes.

As long as you don't do it again, you can still go to medical school. I spoke recently to Dr. Herman Gordon, former Chair of the University of Arizona Medical School admission committee and currently an Accepted consultant, about applying with academic infractions on your record. In his words:

"So there’s reflection, there’s contrition, and there’s redemption.

"The reflection is you need to spend some time thinking about what it is you did wrong, why you did it, how you would act differently in the future. The contrition is after you’ve done that sort of self analysis, then you have to accept that you are the one who was responsible. And you have to make that very clear, right? And then the redemption is that you need to do something that sort of makes amends for what you did wrong."​

You've clearly reflected. You're clearly contrite. Maybe try to do something "redemptive"? Perhaps speak to freshman coming into college? Or offer to speak high school students about the risks of cheating?

And obviously don't do anything that could get you in trouble again.

Best,
Linda

 

[LizzyM]

If this were a really bad IA, you would have gotten an F for the course or been suspeneded from school. Did you intend to cheat? From what you've written, it appears that you did not intend to do so. You weren't saying to your pal, "let's split the work, you do my bio lab report and your own and I'll write our chem lab reports." You made what might be called "an honest mistake."
I do think that adcoms are likely to be merciful in these circumstances, thinking that you were just learning how to write a lab report, rather than intentionally trying to cheat.

 

[LaughingGas10]

If you explain this well on your admission application, and have taken all the necessary steps to redemption , which you are certainly trying, this will likely not be lethal to your final application. I agree with the poster above, that you have already reflected, and you are doing all the right things.

Definitely would help, if you can demonstrate that this experience helped you to mend the ways of others by advising freshmen.

 

[Worried All the time]

I wrote about this before in this post . Long story short, I plagiarized in the spring of my 2nd year (spring 2019)--> grade reduced from A- to B+, and I am trying to keep my dreams alive. I took the MCAT this past summer (September 2020) and scored a 517 (130/127/131/129). my final gpa is looking to be around 3.86.

What do I do now? I'm planning on doing Americorps for a gap year and then applying after (June 2022).

I'm also feeling pressured to apply this summer which would be 2 years after. I have so much anxiety due to this I really am a wreck. I'm a wreck because I feel like I've ruined my life. I'm a wreck because like most of the people on this forum, I have an overwhelming fear of failure which is becoming all too real.

Can someone offer me some advice? 2 gap years? 1? 3 and let my MCAT score expire and retake? What do I do? I know with things like this there is no right answer but I really have tried to work with the professor and he mentioned he could write me a lor.

I would appreciate any advice/criticism. Tell me I'm a failure, tell me I have a chance, just tell me something, please.

Does plaigarism show up on your transcript? Is there a note?

There is always a chance a school may look past it; nothing is impossible. However, you got to realize how competitive this process is and if they have applicants with similar stats, they will be less inclined to give you a chance or look imo. Your stats are stellar and sh$t happens so I wish you the best!!

 

[Worried All the time]

Do they offer a process to expunge these infarctions at your school say if they realize you have redeemed yourself?

 

[LeeSin]

You need to put as much time as possible between this incident and your application.

But see to your mental health first. Medical school is a crucible.

Thank you

 

[LeeSin]

If you explain this well on your admission application, and have taken all the necessary steps to redemption , which you are certainly trying, this will likely not be lethal to your final application. I agree with the poster above, that you have already reflected, and you are doing all the right things.

Definitely would help, if you can demonstrate that this experience helped you to mend the ways of others by advising freshmen.

Thank you, I'm definitely coming back and re-reading this when I'm feeling overwhelmed about everything

 

[Mr.Blackdoc.5]

think I might have replied to a similar thread on this, but had an academic IA freshman year which was more than 7 years ago at this point and am applying this cycle. Have received 15 IIs at top 20-25 schools despite this with a <3.6 gpa and 522 mcat.

as others have said you need to put as much time between this and your application as possible. You should also try to stick out in a way that’ll make adcoms say “wow, we really need to interview this person.”

in terms of the redemption aspect of things, if your school has an honor council see if you can join it and perhaps even give speeches to the college community on how you made a poor decision and it’s negative impact. I think showing an ability to be able to do something like this even though it’s not easy would show a great level of maturity and accountability. Could perhaps also consider working with the professor who caught you to see if you can get an outstanding lor from her although that’s a pretty risky scenario I suppose.

 

[mmmtaste]

I started a thread on my own asking about a plagiarism IA, so I know how you are feeling when it comes to uncertainty about the future. If there’s anything I could try pitching in, it‘s that Dr. Ryan Gray from Medical School HQ has pretty good advice on how to approach red flags on the application.

Essentially, he states that being able to detail in the IA description how you’ve grown from the incident so that it will not be an issue moving forward is vital. It doesn’t seem like what you did was intentional, so you can definitely describe this as a learning experience.

I know what it’s like to have a lapse in judgment leading to a mistake. I’m just an undergrad but I feel that candor is what adcoms will look for.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

I started a thread on my own asking about a plagiarism IA, so I know how you are feeling when it comes to uncertainty about the future. If there’s anything I could try pitching in, it‘s that Dr. Ryan Gray from Medical School HQ has pretty good advice on how to approach red flags on the application.

Essentially, he states that being able to detail in the IA description how you’ve grown from the incident so that it will not be an issue moving forward is vital. It doesn’t seem like what you did was intentional, so you can definitely describe this as a learning experience.

I know what it’s like to have a lapse in judgment leading to a mistake. I’m just an undergrad but I feel that candor is what adcoms will look for.

This is all good and well but any conviction/IA will drastically lower your chances at most schools. I’m speaking from personal experience. Without these things on my application, I would’ve almost certainly been an M3 at a top five medical school. Now I’m basically having to beg schools just to give me a second chance. And it’s not easy.

And it makes perfect sense. Why would medical schools accept somebody with a red flag when 500000 other applications don’t have any?

 

[Mr.Blackdoc.5]

This is all good and well but any conviction/IA will drastically lower your chances at most schools. I’m speaking from personal experience. Without these things on my application, I would’ve almost certainly been an M3 at a top five medical school. Now I’m basically having to beg schools just to give me a second chance. And it’s not easy.

And it makes perfect sense. Why would medical schools accept somebody with a red flag when 500000 other applications don’t have any?

Depends on the IA and when it was and how strong of an applicant you are

 

[Goro]

Depends on the IA and when it was and how strong of an applicant you are

Indeed. Not all IAs are the same.

 

[DoctorFate]

This is all good and well but any conviction/IA will drastically lower your chances at most schools. I’m speaking from personal experience. Without these things on my application, I would’ve almost certainly been an M3 at a top five medical school. Now I’m basically having to beg schools just to give me a second chance. And it’s not easy.

And it makes perfect sense. Why would medical schools accept somebody with a red flag when 500000 other applications don’t have any?

You generally make a good point dude, but idk if you're necessarily the best example to cite here. Most things aren't as serious as a misdemeanor with a serious controlled substance nor are most applicants as excellent as you are (otherwise speaking, anyway).

 

[bcf_lasagna]

This is all good and well but any conviction/IA will drastically lower your chances at most schools. I’m speaking from personal experience. Without these things on my application, I would’ve almost certainly been an M3 at a top five medical school. Now I’m basically having to beg schools just to give me a second chance. And it’s not easy.

And it makes perfect sense. Why would medical schools accept somebody with a red flag when 500000 other applications don’t have any?

I mean, you can’t know that for sure. There’s a reason why an essay can be written when you mark the IA box. I’m not saying that having an IA isn’t a red flag, but it by itself won’t bar someone from getting accepted at most places. How one writes about it, being able to own up to what they did, and what they learned/what they did to prevent it from being an issue moving forward are the MOST important parts of that essay.

And yes, certain other things matter like when did it happen and what was the sanction imposed. Obviously earlier in college is better than later, and lighter sanctions are better

With all due respect that first comment is ignorant, and I advise you to not forget that there’s several parts to an application. Medical schools can reject applicants for other things as well. Or maybe you didn‘t own up to your mistake, I don’t know.

Look I’m not an adcom, just another premed who accidentally forgot to take notes in their own words as a freshman. I’m just conveying the thoughts shared by the former dean at UT Southwestern in a video conducted with Dr. Ryan Gray from MedicalSchoolHQ.

I’m not saying IA applicants WILL get in anywhere they want, because most people don’t get in at all. We’re human beings though, and we make mistakes. Most adcoms understand that. Having a plan B is great, and nursing looks like a great field to go into lol

 

[YCAGA]

Dr. Ryan Gray from MedicalSchoolHQ

This guy is an absolute clown. He is sooooo condescending to premeds in his videos and frequently says counter-factual stuff. Just need to say that since I saw his Youtube channel brought up.

 

[bcf_lasagna]

This guy is an absolute clown. He is sooooo condescending to premeds in his videos and frequently says counter-factual stuff. Just need to say that since I saw his Youtube channel brought up.

is there anything specific that he says that is counter-factual? I'm not doubting you or implying that you are wrong, but for this video it's not just his own opinion. I mentioned he did a video with the former dean at UT Southwestern who shared his thoughts about disciplinary actions, and IAs in general.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Of course, I don’t believe that anybody should give up because an IA/red flag. I think in some instances, it may build character if you take the time off and use it as a catalyst for reinvention.

 

[bcf_lasagna]

Of course, I don’t believe that anybody should give up because an IA/red flag. I think in some instances, it may build character if you take the time off and use it as a catalyst for reinvention.

Absolutely, but of course there’s so many possibilities of an IA that the details matter. There may be a case where someone’s morality or honesty isn’t questioned, but rather their judgment. In all cases having it be an isolated incident in an otherwise good application (because you need a good one regardless) will be better.

 

[LeeSin]

This is all good and well but any conviction/IA will drastically lower your chances at most schools. I’m speaking from personal experience. Without these things on my application, I would’ve almost certainly been an M3 at a top five medical school. Now I’m basically having to beg schools just to give me a second chance. And it’s not easy.

And it makes perfect sense. Why would medical schools accept somebody with a red flag when 500000 other applications don’t have any?

It does make perfect sense but what can we do at the end of the day? I'm not giving up. I'm just taking it day by day.

What was your IA if you don't mind me asking?

I'm trying to stay hopeful because of how much I've learned about myself from this and having a lor from the professor whose class I plagiarized in might speak for me more than I could ever.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

It does make perfect sense but what can we do at the end of the day? I'm not giving up. I'm just taking it day by day.

What was your IA if you don't mind me asking?

I'm trying to stay hopeful because of how much I've learned about myself from this and having a lor from the professor whose class I plagiarized in might speak for me more than I could ever.

Much worse than plagiarism. I’d rather not get into specifics because I’m applying right now. Having a professor speak about your character will go a long way. I let two professors know about my IA/conviction and I think it helped a lot.I have 7 interviews right now, but had much more prev cycle (which came earlier, 4 of mine have came in past couple weeks). So it definitely doesn’t kill an application but it does no favors either and could delay things if Dean has to review it. I would imagine this is more of a factor with a conviction rather than an IA.

You’ll be fine if you can show growth and get a letter from the prof or another prof talking about your character in addition to academics.

 

[LeeSin]

Much worse than plagiarism. I’d rather not get into specifics because I’m applying right now. Having a professor speak about your character will go a long way. I let two professors know about my IA/conviction and I think it helped a lot.I have 7 interviews right now, but had much more prev cycle (which came earlier, 4 of mine have came in past couple weeks). So it definitely doesn’t kill an application but it does no favors either and could delay things if Dean has to review it. I would imagine this is more of a factor with a conviction rather than an IA.

You’ll be fine if you can show growth and get a letter from the prof or another prof talking about your character in addition to academics.

Thanks man, I completely understand.

Good luck this cycle! 7 interviews is a bounty.

Can I ask how the heck you drafted a list of schools to apply to? My stats (5.85/517) are high but I was thinking about avoiding the top 30 schools in general and focus on applying to schools where I'm in the top 1/4 of applicants.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Thanks man, I completely understand.

Good luck this cycle! 7 interviews is a bounty.

Can I ask how the heck you drafted a list of schools to apply to? My stats (5.85/517) are high but I was thinking about avoiding the top 30 schools in general and focus on applying to schools where I'm in the top 1/4 of applicants.

I probably applied to 50 total. Very broadly. I think that you should definitely apply to at least 10 T10-T30. Many schools yield protect and if you target schools that are well below your stats range, they may reject/hold to save resources because they think you may not go there. Some of the Adcoms on here are probably a better resource for chances/school list. It’s actually more important to avoid schools being on your list than picking schools that are a perfect match. For example unless you live in state or have very strong ties do not apply to

Buffalo
Michigan State
Washington U (not WUSTL)
Florida State
Central Michigan
Wright State
New Mexico
UNLV
California health and sciences
California north state
UC irvine
UC riverside
UC davis
Oklahoma
Illinois
Arkansas
Mississippi
Augusta
LSU Shreveport
LSU New Orleans
North Dakota
South Dakota
Kentucky
Louisville
Missouri Columbia
Missouri Kansas City
South Carolina Columbia
South Caroline Charleston
Oregon
Colorado
Rutgers Robert Wood Johnson

I have seen far too many OOS/high star applicants apply to these schools. It’s somewhat reasonable to see low MCAT/GPAs at some schools and think that it should be somewhat easy to get an interview. But these schools should be avoided unless in state or ties to school/state.

There are more that should be added to the list that aren’t coming to mind. But if you can cut ~50 schools that you really shouldn’t apply to, then you only have ~100ish left to choose from. Choosing 30-40 from this list is more manageable.

Good luck. And if you want some input after you craft a list, I’d be happy to help refine it and or advise on schools that should be removed.

 

[LeeSin]

I probably applied to 50 total. Very broadly. I think that you should definitely apply to at least 10 T10-T30. Many schools yield protect and if you target schools that are well below your stats range, they may reject/hold to save resources because they think you may not go there. Some of the Adcoms on here are probably a better resource for chances/school list. It’s actually more important to avoid schools being on your list than picking schools that are a perfect match. For example unless you live in state or have very strong ties do not apply to

Buffalo
Michigan State
Washington U (not WUSTL)
Florida State
Central Michigan
Wright State
New Mexico
UNLV
California health and sciences
California north state
Arkansas
Mississippi
Augusta
LSU Shreveport
LSU New Orleans
North Dakota
South Dakota
Kentucky
Louisville
Missouri Columbia
Missouri Kansas City
Oregon
Colorado
Rutgers Robert Wood Johnson

I have seen far too many OOS/high star applicants apply to these schools. It’s somewhat reasonable to see low MCAT/GPAs at some schools and think that it should be somewhat easy to get an interview. But these schools should be avoided unless in state or ties to school/state.

There are more that should be added to the list that aren’t coming to mind. But if you can cut ~50 schools that you really shouldn’t apply to, then you only have ~100ish left to choose from. Choosing 30-40 from this list is more manageable.

Good luck. And if you want some input after you craft a list, I’d be happy to help refine it and or advise on schools that should be removed.

I was aiming for 50 as well just cuz of the IA. This is very helpful thanks. Rip my dreams of colorado

I'll definitely hit you up once I start working on my list

 

[bcf_lasagna]

Much worse than plagiarism. I’d rather not get into specifics because I’m applying right now. Having a professor speak about your character will go a long way. I let two professors know about my IA/conviction and I think it helped a lot.I have 7 interviews right now, but had much more prev cycle (which came earlier, 4 of mine have came in past couple weeks). So it definitely doesn’t kill an application but it does no favors either and could delay things if Dean has to review it. I would imagine this is more of a factor with a conviction rather than an IA.

You’ll be fine if you can show growth and get a letter from the prof or another prof talking about your character in addition to academics.

Well if your IA is much worse than plagiarism then I think it invalidates your previous claim that “ANY conviction/IA will drastically lower your chances at acceptance”

I am not saying that it’s a good thing to have an IA. Obviously they don’t help. (Frankly if it’s bad and occurs later in college/life, then it will drastically lower chances.) Just wanting to place emphasis on my previous point that the details matter.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Well if your IA is much worse than plagiarism then I think it invalidates your previous claim that “ANY conviction/IA will drastically lower your chances at acceptance”

I am not saying that it’s a good thing to have an IA. Obviously they don’t help. (Frankly if it’s bad and occurs later in college/life, then it will drastically lower chances.) Just wanting to place emphasis on my previous point that the details matter.

True but fewer interviews == less chance of acceptance

 

[KnightDoc]

Well if your IA is much worse than plagiarism then I think it invalidates your previous claim that “ANY conviction/IA will drastically lower your chances at acceptance”

I am not saying that it’s a good thing to have an IA. Obviously they don’t help. (Frankly if it’s bad and occurs later in college/life, then it will drastically lower chances.) Just wanting to place emphasis on my previous point that the details matter.

Can you say this without knowing what his baseline is? I happen to think he is spot on, and what he is saying is not implying that success is impossible, but merely that the odds are a lot lower than without it. I also read his statement to apply specifically to a conviction as opposed to a warning for being in a room where someone under age 21 was sipping on a beer.

 

[Dave1980]

At the very least the OP has something interesting to discuss with the diversity essay. Very few applicants have an IA.

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

not all plagiarism IAs are the same but unfortunately my plagiarism IA is as bad as it gets (barring just copy and pasting). Basically read over a friend's lab report and mine turned out very similar although the differences are obvious the methodology and overall structure was the same. So yeah, I'm about as bad as they come.

Your plagiarism IA is nothing. As a first year law student Joe Biden submitted a 15 page paper (probably an appellate brief for moot court) and five of those pages were directly cribbed from a law review article without attribution. Biden got busted and threw himself on the mercy of the ethics committee. He got an F for the course but was allowed to remain in law school with the proviso that he would repeat the class. At a law school that is now ranked 102nd in the country and in a graduating class of 85 students Biden graduated 78th in the class. Joe Biden is now the President of the United States.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1987/09/18/biden-admits-plagiarizing-in-law-school/53047c90-c16d-4f3a-9317-a106be8f6102/

 

[LizzyM]

Your plagiarism IA is nothing. As a first year law student Joe Biden submitted a 15 page paper (probably an appellate brief for moot court) and five of those pages were directly cribbed from a law review article without attribution. Biden got busted and threw himself on the mercy of the ethics committee. He got an F for the course but was allowed to remain in law school with the proviso that he would repeat the class. At a law school that is now ranked 102nd in the country and in a graduating class of 85 students Biden graduated 78th in the class. Joe Biden is now the President of the United States.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1987/09/18/biden-admits-plagiarizing-in-law-school/53047c90-c16d-4f3a-9317-a106be8f6102/

For better or for worse, law school is not med school. And the treatment of students is different than the treatment of applicants to the same school.

That said, not all IAs are the same.

There are some IAs that are an absolute dealbreaker... full stop. Can't be described one in a single phrase but a specific essay may be all the adcom needs to see to say, "Nope, not going to matriculate here."

Keep in mind, too, that you must report IAs that happen after you submit your application and even after you receive offers of admission. That can elucidate why someone applying with an IA might be pretty sure that without the IA they'd be half way through med school by now.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

Your plagiarism IA is nothing. As a first year law student Joe Biden submitted a 15 page paper (probably an appellate brief for moot court) and five of those pages were directly cribbed from a law review article without attribution. Biden got busted and threw himself on the mercy of the ethics committee. He got an F for the course but was allowed to remain in law school with the proviso that he would repeat the class. At a law school that is now ranked 102nd in the country and in a graduating class of 85 students Biden graduated 78th in the class. Joe Biden is now the President of the United States.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1987/09/18/biden-admits-plagiarizing-in-law-school/53047c90-c16d-4f3a-9317-a106be8f6102/

Med schools aren’t usually this forgiving. None of the schools that accepted me will even interview me this time with IA

 

[KnightDoc]

Med schools aren’t usually this forgiving. None of the schools that accepted me will even interview me this time with IA

If it makes you feel any better, I'm not sure that this is limited to IAs. It is very possible that once you withdraw from an A, forced or otherwise, that the school simply closes the book on you since there are so many other fish in the sea (fool me once, shame on you, ...). In hindsight, this might have been worth exploring before sinking time and money into those applications. TBH, I would have just assumed it unless told otherwise.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

For better or for worse, law school is not med school. And the treatment of students is different than the treatment of applicants to the same school.

That said, not all IAs are the same.

There are some IAs that are an absolute dealbreaker... full stop. Can't be described one in a single phrase but a specific essay may be all the adcom needs to see to say, "Nope, not going to matriculate here."

Keep in mind, too, that you must report IAs that happen after you submit your application and even after you receive offers of admission. That can elucidate why someone applying with an IA might be pretty sure that without the IA they'd be half way through med school by now.

What are some of these “absolute dealbreakers?”

 

[bcf_lasagna]

True but fewer interviews == less chance of acceptance

Well that would depend on if one was receiving less interviews because of the IA, rather than the several other possibilities that one might not be receiving an interview, based from the primary and secondary.

 

[bcf_lasagna]

Can you say this without knowing what his baseline is? I happen to think he is spot on, and what he is saying is not implying that success is impossible, but merely that the odds are a lot lower than without it. I also read his statement to apply specifically to a conviction as opposed to a warning for being in a room where someone under age 21 was sipping on a beer.

Well stating that all IAs will make your odds of acceptance a lot lower than without it assumes that all IAs are the same. I think adcoms realize that in some cases people are human beings, or they were young and made a bad decision/lapse in judgment. It’s possible one doesn’t get an interview invite not just for the IA but maybe they didnt write about it well. Maybe they blamed others instead of taking responsibility.

And for convictions the details matter too, as well as when it happened.

Also @voxveritatisetlucis said he received am acceptance in one of his application cycles? Sounds like success to me

 

[bcf_lasagna]

What are some of these “absolute dealbreakers?”

I would imagine felonies? Having more than one of any IA is bad since that person wouldn’t have learned their lesson. I’m probably forgetting some.

 

[KnightDoc]

Well stating that all IAs will make your odds of acceptance a lot lower than without it assumes that all IAs are the same. I think adcoms realize that in some cases people are human beings, or they were young and made a bad decision/lapse in judgment. It’s possible one doesn’t get an interview invite not just for the IA but maybe they didnt write about it well. Maybe they blamed others instead of taking responsibility.

And for convictions the details matter too, as well as when it happened.

Also @voxveritatisetlucis said he received am acceptance in one of his application cycles? Sounds like success to me

No, it does not assume that at all. Even though adcoms realize that people are human beings, human beings with 3.90/520 have significantly better odds than those with 3.5/510, and human beings with no IAs to report fare statistically better than those who do.

Doesn't mean it's impossible to overcome, and doesn't mean benign nonsense isn't treated differently than a criminal conviction. At the end of the day, though, the really small stuff becomes unreported warnings, and adcoms know this as well, so anything that becomes part of a written record definitely impairs the odds of success.

 

[bcf_lasagna]

No, it does not assume that at all. Even though adcoms realize that people are human beings, human beings with 3.90/520 have significantly better odds than those with 3.5/510, and human beings with no IAs to report fare statistically better than those who do.

Doesn't mean it's impossible to overcome, and doesn't mean benign nonsense isn't treated differently than a criminal conviction. At the end of the day, though, the really small stuff becomes unreported warnings, and adcoms know this as well, so anything that becomes part of a written record definitely impairs the odds of success.

I can agree with the statements you’ve made when applying to in general. I also think we can agree on when focusing into specific cases, that the details matter the most, and if someone has a written record for something with a reasonable explanation for what happened (without repeating it of course), then that SPECIFIC individual should not be discouraged from applying.

 

[KnightDoc]

I can agree with the statements you’ve made when applying to in general. I also think we can agree on when focusing into specific cases, that the details matter the most, and if someone has a written record for something with a reasonable explanation for what happened (without repeating it of course), then that SPECIFIC individual should not be discouraged from applying.

Totally. No one should ever be discouraged from applying unless what they have is an obvious, automatic R everywhere. Everything I have been saying was meant in general.

 

[Mr.Blackdoc.5]

At the very least the OP has something interesting to discuss with the diversity essay. Very few applicants have an IA.

I would never discuss the IA purposely or bring more attention to it unless directly asked

 

[LizzyM]

Like I said, it might be the whole story that would doom an applicant, rather than the just the charge which doesn't always tell the whole story.

Certain IA explanations that included manslaughter or murder, big time drug dealing, fraud, theft from patients' rooms, sexual assault of children, elder abuse, terrorism, conviction for involvement in the events of 1/6/2021 might be the sort of thing that would be a deal breaker for an adcom. Always, the question is, "would we want someone in our community who did that?" and the explanation might be the only thing that the adcom feels the need to read before saying, "Next!"

 

[gyngyn]

Like I said, it might be the whole story that would doom an applicant, rather than the just the charge which doesn't always tell the whole story.

Certain IA explanations that included manslaughter or murder, big time drug dealing, fraud, theft from patients' rooms, sexual assault of children, elder abuse, terrorism, conviction for involvement in the events of 1/6/2021 might be the sort of thing that would be a deal breaker for an adcom. Always, the question is, "would we want someone in our community who did that?" and the explanation might be the only thing that the adcom feels the need to read before saying, "Next!"

I recall an applicant convicted of manslaughter who posited that he should be considered disadvantaged because felons were under-represented in medicine.