Plastics or Ortho from carrib. schools?

[NRAI2001]

Is it possible? How difficult is it to do so? How likely?

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[PKP719]

I guess no one ever made it to that position ...

 

[Bevo]

unless you got some sort of contact for getting in, I would really stay away from a carib school.

I think Ross has matched 1 person into ortho in its 25 year history. And that person had some connections. He worked in the dept for 10 years prior to med school.

I think plastics is supposed to be the most competitive match there is.

 

[Phil Anthropist]

SGU had three orthos and one plastics match in 2004 according to their website

Ross had an ortho match in 2003 and 2004 according to their website

Going to the Caribbean with the intent to match (integrated) plastic surgery or ortho is not a wise decision, in my opinion. You're talking about some of the most competitive specialties out there.

 

[PKP719]

competitive residencies = super nerds

...ughhh

 

[Skip Intro]

Not really. Ortho guys are generally considered "lunkheads" that don't know much about medicine. Now, they had to get the scores to get those spots, of course, but I wouldn't characterize them as "super nerds".

Now, neurosurgeons, on the other hand... now we're talking!

-Skip

P.S. Yeah, you definitely shouldn't count on getting a spot in one of those specialties coming from the Carib. Then again, you shouldn't really count on getting one of those spots at a U.S. school either, unless you are AOA, have a research background, top USMLE scores, are an all-around stud/studette (etc.)... you get the picture.

 

[berkeleyboy]

Not really. Ortho guys are generally considered "lunkheads" that don't know much about medicine. Now, they had to get the scores to get those spots, of course, but I wouldn't characterize them as "super nerds".

Now, neurosurgeons, on the other hand... now we're talking!

-Skip

P.S. Yeah, you definitely shouldn't count on getting a spot in one of those specialties coming from the Carib. Then again, you shouldn't really count on getting one of those spots at a U.S. school either, unless you are AOA, have a research background, top USMLE scores, are an all-around stud/studette (etc.)... you get the picture.

I remember reading that there are only 76 categorical plastics programs in the entire nation. If you look at match lists at LCME accredited schools you will find it difficult to see plastics as a match. There might be 0-4 matches tops even at the best schools in the US for plastics.

 

[brendang]

Not really. Ortho guys are generally considered "lunkheads" that don't know much about medicine. Now, they had to get the scores to get those spots, of course, but I wouldn't characterize them as "super nerds".

Now, neurosurgeons, on the other hand... now we're talking!

-Skip

P.S. Yeah, you definitely shouldn't count on getting a spot in one of those specialties coming from the Carib. Then again, you shouldn't really count on getting one of those spots at a U.S. school either, unless you are AOA, have a research background, top USMLE scores, are an all-around stud/studette (etc.)... you get the picture.

we had a neurosurgery match at saba this year at U Buffalo

 

[manfood.com]

this guy has to be the pump up master for Saba. I'm sure from one of the previous posts taht Ross has not had only one ortho in the past 25years, lol. The jokes on you pal, if you think that's a fact.

 

[NRAI2001]

Getting an intergrated plastics spot is probably close to impossible, but what about getting a plastics fellowship after doing a general surgery residency? If someone were to do a general surg. residency after carrib how difficult would it be for them to get a plastics fellowship? Would graduating from a foreign school still play a factor post residency?

 

[Skip Intro]

Getting a plastics/hand fellowship after gen surg is still tough, although getting a surgery spot and doing well in it will trump your undergrad med. But, it is extremely tough getting a categorical surgery spot coming out of the Carib schools. This year, there were only 7 categorical spots that went unfilled in the Match. I know people that had stellar applications, great interviews, and a lot of rank choices who still didn't get a categorical surgery spot this year. Since the 80-hour work-week change, surgery has once again gotten very competitive. You can always try to get a prelim spot and hope to convert to a full program at the end, though. Easier said than done, however.

-Skip

 

[NRAI2001]

Getting a plastics/hand fellowship after gen surg is still tough, although getting a surgery spot and doing well in it will trump your undergrad med. But, it is extremely tough getting a categorical surgery spot coming out of the Carib schools. This year, there were only 7 categorical spots that went unfilled in the Match. I know people that had stellar applications, great interviews, and a lot of rank choices who still didn't get a categorical surgery spot this year. Since the 80-hour work-week change, surgery has once again gotten very competitive. You can always try to get a prelim spot and hope to convert to a full program at the end, though. Easier said than done, however.

-Skip

What is a categorical spot? How is it different from a prelim spot?

 

[awdc]

Categorical position = you're in for the duration of the residency.
Preliminary position = you've got one year to prove yourself... or for those going into other specialties requiring an general internship year like radiology or anesthesiology.

 

[homealone3]

The link below is to an AUC grad. who is a plastic surgeon and is on faculty at UCLA.

http://dgsom.healthsciences.ucla.edu/institution/physician?personnel_id=10124

 

[NRAI2001]

The link below is to an AUC grad. who is a plastic surgeon and is on faculty at UCLA.

http://dgsom.healthsciences.ucla.edu/institution/physician?personnel_id=10124

Cool, thats very encouraging

 

[NRAI2001]

What is the difference between doing a plastics fellowship after a gen surg residency and doing a integrated plastics residency straight after med school?

Is either one trained better? How long is a plastics fellowship? How long is an integrated residency (I think its 6 years, but not sure)?

 

[jasongayson]

Is it possible? How difficult is it to do so? How likely?

Look, if you're interested, it's NOT hard.

Don't listen to any of these people. I was NOT a gunner. I HATE gunners. I can smell them 3,000 miles away. If you want to know how to do it, there are a few 'secrets' that will almost guarantee you'll get a good residency.

Although there are some small variables that change every year, the most important things stay the same.

TWO VERY COMMON MISCONCEPTIONS. that residency programs care about:
1. where you went to medical school (no one cares as long as you do a good deal of your 3rd and 4th years in the states INTELLIGENTLY CHOSEN EXTERNSHIPS! duh!). I went to st.matthews but no one even seemed to notice.
2. what kind of GPA or class rank you had going into step 1 and/or 3rd/4th years.

I don't have time to explain it all here now, but I am just starting my 2 week vacation (started today) and I am willing to offer sound, explicit advice as well as tutoring (or I will refer you to THE u.s. guru for usmle) for USMLE step 1 and 2.

If you want to do well in the match, it doesn't matter what kind of grades you've made so far. All you need to do is pass first 2 years and then try to spend as many clinical months as possible rotating in the U.S. Also, it's very important that you not only pass step 1, but you should score somewhere close to a 90 / 220 on the test... but DON'T freak out! this is not NEARLY as hard as it sounds. I did it on the first try--but it's because I was extremely lucky and had some excellent advice from some students ahead of me who had 'figured out' the test.

Also, there are some very important concepts that almost NO schools (u.s. included) teach that for whatever reason, the attendings LOVE to 'pimp' the students on these concepts. Email me at [email protected] if you're interested in pursuing a career in the states. Trust me, no one really cares where you went to med school or what your grades were. My grades sucked and I went to St. Matthews (good school... but carribean nonetheless).

There's a few things that I can offer to those who take the time to send me an email request. Please bear in mind that even though I am on a 2 week vacation, my time is still very limited. I will respond to your email asap, but you MUST tell me where you're enrolled and something (ANYTHING!) about yourself, where you'd like to do residency, or what kind of program or specialty that you'd like to pursue.

I've got all this giant wealth of info, but some info that really matters is where you're coming from, where you'd like to go, and what field you'd like to go into. Trust me, I never thought in a million years that I could score an orthopedic residency ANYWHERE much less at a school that was in my top 10 picks in the nation...

if you're a gunner, then don't even bother emailing me. You don't need my help because you already know everything.

But to everyone else, I'm serious about giving back to the people who are in the same position that I was in not too long ago... trust me, it will all be over soon. Let me know if you want me to help out and I assure you that it will be the best decision you've made in a long while.

Good luck to everyone on the boards and in the match. I'm going to bed now because I can barely hold my eyes open any longer... Please don't email me unless you're serious about hearing what I have to say.

Jason Gayson
[email protected]
PGY-1 General Surgery Transitional
Department of Orthopedic Surgery
UAB Medical Center, USA

 

[15Blade]

Its not impossible, but it is a long shot. I know of 2 IMG's who got ortho spots, and 1 who got an integrated plastics spot. They were all stellar students who ate, drank, and slept ortho or plastics. It can be done but u must work super hard. Plastics is harder than ortho cuz theres less spots.....you'll have more of a chance if you did 5 years of GS first and then go for a plastics fellowship.

 

[NRAI2001]

Look, if you're interested, it's NOT hard.

Don't listen to any of these people. I was NOT a gunner. I HATE gunners. I can smell them 3,000 miles away. If you want to know how to do it, there are a few 'secrets' that will almost guarantee you'll get a good residency.

Although there are some small variables that change every year, the most important things stay the same.

TWO VERY COMMON MISCONCEPTIONS. that residency programs care about:
1. where you went to medical school (no one cares as long as you do a good deal of your 3rd and 4th years in the states INTELLIGENTLY CHOSEN EXTERNSHIPS! duh!). I went to st.matthews but no one even seemed to notice.
2. what kind of GPA or class rank you had going into step 1 and/or 3rd/4th years.

I don't have time to explain it all here now, but I am just starting my 2 week vacation (started today) and I am willing to offer sound, explicit advice as well as tutoring (or I will refer you to THE u.s. guru for usmle) for USMLE step 1 and 2.

If you want to do well in the match, it doesn't matter what kind of grades you've made so far. All you need to do is pass first 2 years and then try to spend as many clinical months as possible rotating in the U.S. Also, it's very important that you not only pass step 1, but you should score somewhere close to a 90 / 220 on the test... but DON'T freak out! this is not NEARLY as hard as it sounds. I did it on the first try--but it's because I was extremely lucky and had some excellent advice from some students ahead of me who had 'figured out' the test.

Also, there are some very important concepts that almost NO schools (u.s. included) teach that for whatever reason, the attendings LOVE to 'pimp' the students on these concepts. Email me at [email protected] if you're interested in pursuing a career in the states. Trust me, no one really cares where you went to med school or what your grades were. My grades sucked and I went to St. Matthews (good school... but carribean nonetheless).

There's a few things that I can offer to those who take the time to send me an email request. Please bear in mind that even though I am on a 2 week vacation, my time is still very limited. I will respond to your email asap, but you MUST tell me where you're enrolled and something (ANYTHING!) about yourself, where you'd like to do residency, or what kind of program or specialty that you'd like to pursue.

I've got all this giant wealth of info, but some info that really matters is where you're coming from, where you'd like to go, and what field you'd like to go into. Trust me, I never thought in a million years that I could score an orthopedic residency ANYWHERE much less at a school that was in my top 10 picks in the nation...

if you're a gunner, then don't even bother emailing me. You don't need my help because you already know everything.

But to everyone else, I'm serious about giving back to the people who are in the same position that I was in not too long ago... trust me, it will all be over soon. Let me know if you want me to help out and I assure you that it will be the best decision you've made in a long while.

Good luck to everyone on the boards and in the match. I'm going to bed now because I can barely hold my eyes open any longer... Please don't email me unless you're serious about hearing what I have to say.

Jason Gayson
[email protected]
PGY-1 General Surgery Transitional
Department of Orthopedic Surgery
UAB Medical Center, USA

THANKS A LOT, ur advice has seriously been very helpful and very encouraging. You haven't given me the same BS answers that some other SDN people like to spew out.

 

[stephew]

unless you got some sort of contact for getting in, I would really stay away from a carib school.

I think Ross has matched 1 person into ortho in its 25 year history. And that person had some connections. He worked in the dept for 10 years prior to med school.

I think plastics is supposed to be the most competitive match there is.

Completely untrue. SGU (I cant sepak about Ross) (And probably others) generally has a couple ortho matches most years. *HOWEVER* having said that I think its very fair to say if you MUST do ortho or plastics to be happy, try to get into a US allo school. Note sgu's match list which is up is woefully incomplete; they have many of the folks who've gone into specialities listed by their prelim year (intenship). thus you never see that they're doing a speciality at all; For instance my pal is coming to brigham for radiology and several of her pals are also doing rads. Yet not a radiologist to be seen on this years list. Its a bit sad but they've always been horrible getting the full list out. Ive heard some of the other offshores have the same problem

 

[stephew]

i think jason's misconcepts are good points; my view is a little different. taken backwards, i completely agree; youre basic sci grades dont count a whit. But the "where you go doesnt matter" lark isn't quite true. First of all, if you went to harvard, your chances are better than the same profile student who went to U Nebraska. While offshore grads are quashed together a bit more, there is still a preference for grads of some school over others. Having said that, its hardly insurmountable. I wouldn't let being from school XYZ as opposed to ABC stop me from considering a field. (to stay away from specifics which will no doubt start the "who's the cream of the crap" debate)

 

[stephew]

Categorical position = you're in for the duration of the residency.
Preliminary position = you've got one year to prove yourself... or for those going into other specialties requiring an general internship year like radiology or anesthesiology.

prelim positions by and large are for the latter group. If you are trying to "prove youself" be aware that even if you stand out (in a good way) there may be no PGY2 spot for you. But you can look elsewhere for one.

 

[Skip Intro]

Note sgu's match list which is up is woefully incomplete; they have many of the folks who've gone into specialities listed by their prelim year (intenship). thus you never see that they're doing a speciality at all; For instance my pal is coming to brigham for radiology and several of her pals are also doing rads. Yet not a radiologist to be seen on this years list. Its a bit sad but they've always been horrible getting the full list out. Ive heard some of the other offshores have the same problem

Similar problem with Ross' list. For example, my program is not on the anesthesiology list this year. I also know of two EM matches whose programs aren't listed. Ross (and apparently others) depend heavily on students self-reporting their residency matches. This has happened for the past several years as well.

Use these lists as a representative sample of the types of programs graduates get, and not the be-all-end-all final say where grads go.

-Skip

 

[03Doc]

Great success stories abound, for sure - but if you have designs on plastics, ortho, derm, etc., it's worth your while to go the US MD route, not FMG MD or US DO. It's not a commentary on the quality of the education, some are as good as US MD schools, others are not - it's just that residency directors do not give the same name value to those schools. They're not dead set against taking people from any one school, but if you're going for plastics and have a 240 Step 1 and great grades, letters, etc, but graduated from a Carib. school and are going up against a bunch of people who have the same "stats" but graduated from Harvard, Yale, etc., etc... You're at a disadvantage. This is even seen WITHIN US MD schools - when looking at the derms, opthos, rads, etc. of the world, you are more likely to get in if you are in the top 30-40% of your class at Harvard than in the top 10-15% of a "lesser" medical school. It sucks that it's this way, I've been dealing with it personally for a while now, but it is what it is. If you are set on a competitive specialty, or are actively considering them, perhaps getting a Master's degree and retaking the MCAT and such would be the way into the US MD school that might lead to your competitive specialty match.

BUT - My #1 bit of advice, no matter where you go: ROCK STEP 1. You have NO IDEA how important it is. That 3-digit number defines your medical school career to a lot of the programs in the most competitive specialties. It's the single thing that programs have to compare students from different schools, and most of them use it. Go to a med school that is pass-fail for the first two years - use that WHOLE time as board review, and get the absolute highest score possible. Programs forgive a lot of little "errors" in your application when your Step 1 score is 250, but it takes piles of good letters, good evals, publications, as well as connections to make up for a sub-par score in some specialties.

 

[Leukocyte]

Getting a plastics/hand fellowship after gen surg is still tough, although getting a surgery spot and doing well in it will trump your undergrad med. But, it is extremely tough getting a categorical surgery spot coming out of the Carib schools.

-Skip

Very True, none of my 3 friends matched Categorical this year. They even applied to programs that host Carib. medical students for their surgery core! The PD at one of these programs told my friend straight out that it would not matter what grades he had, he will be automatically placed into the prelim spots, unless US medical students do not fill the categoricals!

I do not care what people say here - If you are a Carib. grad and applying to competetive specialities YOU NEED CONNECTIONS, CONNECTIONS, CONNECTIONS.........

OR...Very Strong USMLEs+Research+LORs

 

[stephew]

Very True, none of my 3 friends matched Categorical this year. They even applied to programs that host Carib. medical students for their surgery core! The PD at one of these programs told my friend straight out that it would not matter what grades he had, he will be automatically placed into the prelim spots, unless US medical students do not fill the categoricals!

I do not care what people say here - If you are a Carib. grad and applying to competetive specialities YOU NEED CONNECTIONS, CONNECTIONS, CONNECTIONS.........

OR...Very Strong USMLEs+Research+LORs

that "or" is a pretty huge one; in fact the main messege. In fact that's what a us grad needs for a competitive residency. Switch your statements around. You need strong usmle and LOR, possible ressearch. Or Good connectinos. that works much better.
Steph

 

[Skip Intro]

I think what is pretty cool is that this year Ross graduates got accepted into residency programs at 41 (out of 52, including Puerto Rico and DC) possible states.

The only places we didn't have graduates go into programs this year was Alaska, Arkansas, Colorado, Hawaii, Idaho, Montana, New Mexico, South Dakota, Vermont, Washington, and Wyoming.

And, out of those 11 states, only six (Arkansas, Hawaii, Idaho, Montana, South Dakota, and Vermont) haven't taken a Ross student in the past three Match cycles. And, remember, Idaho and Montana don't even have their own medical schools.

I think you'd be pretty hard pressed to find such a far-and-wide representation across the U.S. with regards to placement in the Match.

-Skip

 

[stephew]

I think what is pretty cool is that this year Ross graduates got accepted into residency programs at 41 (out of 52, including Puerto Rico and DC) possible states.

The only places we didn't have graduates go into programs this year was Alaska, Arkansas, Colorado, Hawaii, Idaho, Montana, New Mexico, South Dakota, Vermont, Washington, and Wyoming.

And, out of those 11 states, only six (Arkansas, Hawaii, Idaho, Montana, South Dakota, and Vermont) haven't taken a Ross student in the past three Match cycles. And, remember, Idaho and Montana don't even have their own medical schools.

I think you'd be pretty hard pressed to find such a far-and-wide representation across the U.S. with regards to placement in the Match.

-Skip

well if true that's probably because people stay more regionally in the us.

 

[Skip Intro]

well if true that's probably because people stay more regionally in the us.

Not disputing that, but it still speaks to the strength and diversity of Ross (and perhaps other schools, like SGU) in their class as well as the fact that we're pretty much, whether people like it or not, everywhere.

-Skip

 

[stephew]

Not disputing that, but it still speaks to the strength and diversity of Ross (and perhaps other schools, like SGU) in their class as well as the fact that we're pretty much, whether people like it or not, everywhere.

-Skip

very true. and willing to go anywhere apparently.