Please, please, please don't go to NYU

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there's so much tension in this

omg I know right?
Just ran the numbers roughly and I am sick to my stomach.

Assuming living costs are ZERO, you will owe UOP 370,000$ before interest due to their insane tuition. During your time in school and assuming a 10 year payment plan, you will have paid about 511,000$, or 4260 a month for 10 years. Even tripling the repayment time to 30 years leaves you with 2400 a month for 30 years. This 2400 a month figure is similar to what a student who attends a school and is in debt 250k before interest will pay for a 10 year payment plan.
 
What do you honestly think you'll accomplish from making this thread. At the end of the day whatever warnings you give applicants nyu will still have enough students to fill their class and some whether that floats your boat or not . If nyu is someone's only acceptance what do you want them to do? Give up on dentistry and become an accountant? I don't think anyone will debate with you that the cost is high, we all agree. But you gotta have an alpha mindset and hustle and grind when you graduate and not expect everything to be handed to you


You are 100% correct. People who expect to work 32hrs/week and not try and take risks will be impacted the most by high debt.

Like you said, we got to be grinding and trying to make money. Yes we are health providers but like this thread 100% implies, we got to make a dollar some way. So we have to market ourselves and compete for patients.

650k is a lot, but very manageable with work ethic and great money management.

Threads like this shouldn't scare anyone just make them aware of what they are getting into. However, this thread is trying to tell people of dental school costs too much, go find a different profession. People follow your heart and with good ethic, the debt will be trivial.
 
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I feel like this student loan guy posts here to instill fear in people with large debt, so they reach out to him for help and he can recruit them as clients. Is having a lot of debt ideal? No, but I'd rather be working a job I enjoy for the rest of my life instead of kissing ass and doing grunt work to move up in the business world
 
Yeah echoing what @maga1994 said, I think one needs to really consider the trade-offs with surgery. Yes you make more but you have to work much longer hours/deal with much more stress than you do already as a dentist. I would love to see a breakdown of the top 25% dentist salary vs. the average surgery salary and see how much they are off combined with the extra years to make money/start a practice not spend in residency.

Part of why I am split on OMFS vs. GP (and why I will wait until I am deep into anatomy lab/clinic to make the decision based on how I like the procedures) is due to this analysis. Do OMFS on average make way more than a GP? Yes! However, besides 4-6 years of lost income, all the time spent in residency is years that your loans spend building interest. In the meantime, a GP can start earning a salary, pay off their loans, and open a practice. Even if the OMFS absolutely KILLS it and is making a $500k-1 million a year when it's all said and done, would they be better off than the GP who is making maybe $300k+ who paid off his debts sooner, didn't have to deal with an 80 hour a week residency, and gets to "enjoy" their money for a longer period of time?

Of course, this depends on how hard it is to earn $300-600k as a dentist (while remaining ethical). A lot of dentist out there either don't own a practice or become complacent with their earnings, so it's kind of hard to determine how much the "go getter" dentist are making.
Keep in mind that you are paid during your OMFS residency. Some schools pay you upwards of 60-70k/yr. While that isn't much (in relation to future income/GP income), it's enough to at least keep the interest in control on your unsubsidized loans.
 
Keep in mind that you are paid during your OMFS residency. Some schools pay you upwards of 60-70k/yr. While that isn't much (in relation to future income/GP income), it's enough to at least keep the interest in control on your unsubsidized loans.

Lol
 
I would be careful about bashing any D school on this forum. Faculty and administration read it, and will not take kindly to any sort of negativity. The OP is not a dentist, nor does he have any aspirations to become one, and his risks are small. Dentistry is a very small world. It never pays to antagonize anyone.
Let's face it, no one is forcing anyone to sign off on student loans, it is a cognitive decision. If it is too much debt, don't do it. If you think you will be able to handle it, go ahead. It's like that Ferrari in the showroom.
 
I feel like this student loan guy posts here to instill fear in people with large debt, so they reach out to him for help and he can recruit them as clients. Is having a lot of debt ideal? No, but I'd rather be working a job I enjoy for the rest of my life instead of kissing ass and doing grunt work to move up in the business world

I don't agree with half the things the guy says, but I don't think he is trying to recruit clients here. He is commenting in the predental section..... these people don't need his services.

Also- totally agree about not liking it out in the corporate world.
 
Keep in mind that you are paid during your OMFS residency. Some schools pay you upwards of 60-70k/yr. While that isn't much (in relation to future income/GP income), it's enough to at least keep the interest in control on your unsubsidized loans.
But 6 year programs are going to hit you with at least 2 years of med school tuition.

Big Hoss
 
But 6 year programs are going to hit you with at least 2 years of med school tuition.

Big Hoss
This is true. Some programs still pay you as a resident during those two years of med school though, so it ends up being a wash.
 
I would rather be 500K in debt with a degree that pays 110K after taxes than 100K in debt with a worthless degree in sociology making 30k take home.

Dentists can still get out ahead, it just takes some forward planning and money management
 
This is true. Some programs still pay you as a resident during those two years of med school though, so it ends up being a wash.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that's how Mayo's 6 year residency works.
 
Just ran the numbers roughly and I am sick to my stomach.

Assuming living costs are ZERO, you will owe UOP 370,000$ before interest due to their insane tuition. During your time in school and assuming a 10 year payment plan, you will have paid about 511,000$, or 4260 a month for 10 years. Even tripling the repayment time to 30 years leaves you with 2400 a month for 30 years. This 2400 a month figure is similar to what a student who attends a school and is in debt 250k before interest will pay for a 10 year payment plan.
But tuition at UoP is 108k/yr...
Where's the 370 from?
 
I would rather be 500K in debt with a degree that pays 110K after taxes than 100K in debt with a worthless degree in sociology making 30k take home.

Dentists can still get out ahead, it just takes some forward planning and money management

Not a good comparison. DMD/DDS is a doctorate degree. Sociology is a bachelors.
A fair one would be PA/NP vs DMD/DDS
 
@Student Loan Planner you're one of my favorite posters in SDN history. Some of the breakdowns you've been generous enough to give this forum have been beyond helpful. Honestly if I hadn't stumbled on your threads when I did I probably would have gone to one of the schools you've warned against and been up to my eyeballs in debt. I just wanted to say thanks.
 
I would rather be 500K in debt with a degree that pays 110K after taxes than 100K in debt with a worthless degree in sociology making 30k take home.

Dentists can still get out ahead, it just takes some forward planning and money management

This is crazy. 110k post tax is more like 80k. Interest alone on a 500k would be 35k. How would you ever pay that off? No, thank you I'd rather not worry about so much debt at night.
 
You are 100% correct. People who expect to work 32hrs/week and not try and take risks will be impacted the most by high debt.

Like you said, we got to be grinding and trying to make money. Yes we are health providers but like this thread 100% implies, we got to make a dollar some way. So we have to market ourselves and compete for patients.

650k is a lot, but very manageable with work ethic and art money management.

Threads like this shouldn't scare anyone just make them aware of what they are getting into. However, this thread is trying to tell people of dental school costs too much, go find a different profession. People follow your heart and with good ethic, the debt will be trivial.

as long as there are students with mentality like this guys' dental schools will have no problem filling their seats...
 
And adding to that NP - get your RN for 10k, work through NP school and graduate debt free.

I think this absurdity with dental school costs comes from naive pre-dents entering grad school never really working a day in their life and having no idea how much loans they are taking on, and how hard it is to make money in the real world, not in their fantasy dental land. People are poor and no one has money to spend on expensive dental procedures.
 
PA makes 80-90k starting. A lot of them specialize in dermatology or surgery and its not uncommon for them to make 100k+. Takes about 2-3 years to finish and debt load is probably 150k MAX. Sounds like a better option than dentistry with 500k debt.
If it can be done that easily then soon enough everyone will be doing it. And thus, another field is ruined
 
And adding to that NP - get your RN for 10k, work through NP school and graduate debt free.

I think this absurdity with dental school costs comes from naive pre-dents entering grad school never really working a day in their life and having no idea how much loans they are taking on, and how hard it is to make money in the real world, not in their fantasy dental land. People are poor and no one has money to spend on expensive dental procedures.

You have to get a bachelors degree if not a BSN first.... so that'll cost more than $10,000.

But I agree, your method does make much more financial sense then the method most predents (myself included) are going
 
And adding to that NP - get your RN for 10k, work through NP school and graduate debt free.

I think this absurdity with dental school costs comes from naive pre-dents entering grad school never really working a day in their life and having no idea how much loans they are taking on, and how hard it is to make money in the real world, not in their fantasy dental land. People are poor and no one has money to spend on expensive dental procedures.

The absurdity of dental school cost is quite clearly due to the availability of loans.

Also, I don't think trying to discredit people trying to get an educating strengthens your argument. If Medical school cost what dental school cost, I can guarantee you that hordes of students would still apply.

As for the alternative careers, being an RN/PA/PT never appealed to me just like being an MD never appealed to me, albeit for very different reasons. IMHO being an RN and being a dentist couldn't be more different.


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The absurdity of dental school cost is quite clearly due to the availability of loans.

Also, I don't think trying to discredit people trying to get an educating strengthens your argument. If Medical school cost what dental school cost, I can guarantee you that hordes of students would still apply.

As for the alternative careers, being an RN/PA/PT never appealed to me just like being an MD never appealed to me, albeit for very different reasons. IMHO being an RN and being a dentist couldn't be more different.


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Don't blame the government for individual's poor choices. The loans are there for everybody, clearly that hasn't affected other professions anywhere to the same extent. Also, I am not here to sway anyone's decision to go to dental school, I am expressing my opinions, but none of you taking on that debt want to hear anything that doesn't align with your beliefs.
 
Don't blame the government for individual's poor choices. The loans are there for everybody, clearly that hasn't affected other professions anywhere to the same extent. Also, I am not here to sway anyone's decision to go to dental school, I am expressing my opinions, but none of you taking on that debt want to hear anything that doesn't align with your beliefs.

Except they shouldn't have that choice in the first place. No private loaner would hand virtually anyone with a warm body these insane amounts of money regardless of their ability to pay it back. They are the genesis of why we are in this issue in the first place.

Also, how are loans not affecting other professions? Student loan debt is hardly exclusive to the dental field. 1.1 million people across the board defaulted on their loans last year alone.

Finally, nice try but in my case I got lucky and will not be taking too much debt (and no, my parents aren't paying for it). My personal situation doesn't change the fact that I believe dentistry is still a worthwhile career even if you go to an expensive school vs. spending your entire life working in corporate America. The other health professions have their pros and cons, but I think you have a slight case of grass is greener when analyzing them. The saturation in pharmacy and the wage limitations in RN come beckoning.


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what about using PAYE or IBR? those cap at 10-15% of your income depending on the plan, right? And I hear even with changes Trump is making the 10% will just increase to 12.5% and cut back from 25yrs of repayment to just 15! So that sounds like it would keep loan repayments reasonable leaving plenty to live off of and put into practice loan, etc. Am I incorrect in this assumption? I hope so, b/c this assumption is what enables me to sleep at night!
 
what about using PAYE or IBR? those cap at 10-15% of your income depending on the plan, right? And I hear even with changes Trump is making the 10% will just increase to 12.5% and cut back from 25yrs of repayment to just 15! So that sounds like it would keep loan repayments reasonable leaving plenty to live off of and put into practice loan, etc. Am I incorrect in this assumption? I hope so, b/c this assumption is what enables me to sleep at night!
Trump can't act in vacuum. Congress must create and pass the law first. Obama wanted to cap forgiveness around $50-60,000 - the max one could borrow for undergrad. Given how much the government grossly underestimated the cost of forgiving loans, I'd bet anything that when changes are made a cap on forgiveness is imposed and I wouldn't expect it to be anywhere near what dental school costs. The so called "doctor loophole" will be closed. A good rule of thumb would be, if you borrowed the money expect to fully pay it back.

Big Hoss
 
PA makes 80-90k starting. A lot of them specialize in dermatology or surgery and its not uncommon for them to make 100k+. Takes about 2-3 years to finish and debt load is probably 150k MAX. Sounds like a better option than dentistry with 500k debt.

There is the estimated surplus of 50,000 PAs in the year 2022.

You could open a PA school in your backyard. Hire 10 PA professors who work part time for good money at 80k a pop. Have a class size of 80 to fit in some Room inside a nice building and charge them 30k a year in tuition+ whatever fees you want. You pay 200k a year for the room while paying 800k to the profs. That's 1 million spent however you bring in 2.4 million from the students.
Now imagine doing this on a larger scale, in every university you can imagine. PA school is going to be the next big thing after pharmacy school collapses.

Oh look 146 pa schools in 2010. 2017 225 are accredited. Probably 300 in 2021 lol.
 
what about using PAYE or IBR? those cap at 10-15% of your income depending on the plan, right? And I hear even with changes Trump is making the 10% will just increase to 12.5% and cut back from 25yrs of repayment to just 15! So that sounds like it would keep loan repayments reasonable leaving plenty to live off of and put into practice loan, etc. Am I incorrect in this assumption? I hope so, b/c this assumption is what enables me to sleep at night!

The 15 years is only for undergrad loans. Grad school loan forgiveness under Trump's plan is getting extended to 30 years!

There's a lot of ways I can help dentists plan for their loans as that's what I do for a living. There's a bunch of things you can do with PAYE, REPAYE, minimizing taxable income, etc. However, I created this thread bc I've seen the stress firsthand and I would never recommend putting yourself into that situation prospectively.

Except they shouldn't have that choice in the first place. No private loaner would hand virtually anyone with a warm body these insane amounts of money regardless of their ability to pay it back. They are the genesis of why we are in this issue in the first place.

Also, how are loans not affecting other professions? Student loan debt is hardly exclusive to the dental field. 1.1 million people across the board defaulted on their loans last year alone.

Finally, nice try but in my case I got lucky and will not be taking too much debt (and no, my parents aren't paying for it). My personal situation doesn't change the fact that I believe dentistry is still a worthwhile career even if you go to an expensive school vs. spending your entire life working in corporate America. The other health professions have their pros and cons, but I think you have a slight case of grass is greener when analyzing them. The saturation in pharmacy and the wage limitations in RN come beckoning.


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In general, being a lawyer, chiropractor, and veterinarian is a worse decision than being a dentist from a loans perspective. Being a physician is better. Being a PA or pharmacist is better from a loan standpoint unless you get into a reasonably priced in state school. Most of my PA and pharmacist clients are either refinancing or doing PSLF. In other words, loans are a part of their lives but they aren't a dominant centerpiece like they are for my NYU dentist clients, some of whom call me literally having no idea what to do.

@Student Loan Planner you're one of my favorite posters in SDN history. Some of the breakdowns you've been generous enough to give this forum have been beyond helpful. Honestly if I hadn't stumbled on your threads when I did I probably would have gone to one of the schools you've warned against and been up to my eyeballs in debt. I just wanted to say thanks.

Thanks @Ollivander , if I saved one person it was worth it.

I would be careful about bashing any D school on this forum. Faculty and administration read it, and will not take kindly to any sort of negativity. The OP is not a dentist, nor does he have any aspirations to become one, and his risks are small. Dentistry is a very small world. It never pays to antagonize anyone.
Let's face it, no one is forcing anyone to sign off on student loans, it is a cognitive decision. If it is too much debt, don't do it. If you think you will be able to handle it, go ahead. It's like that Ferrari in the showroom.

Definitely be careful I agree. I'm giving a talk at an in state dental school in the bottom cost quartile and am really pumped about it. Will be able to give really useful tips on how to keep debt down, get into a practice, what are the biggest hurdles and opportunities my clients have said they're facing financially, etc. If NYU asked me to give the same talk, if I was honest with the students I would never be invited again anyway.

How about pharmacy vs dental? Now the better deal seems like pharmacy. Or optometry? Still dental.

Not optometry. That's like vet med, lower income, lower ceiling, and you've still got substantial debt.

Pharmacy is a good choice if you just want to work to live. Not to say you can't be passionate about it, but pharmacists are essentially choosing a less risky path by going with around 150k debt and guaranteed 100k-120k incomes that will go up at the rate of inflation. I only have a couple pharmacists above 200k while maybe 85-90% of the dentists are above that.

The primary draw of dentistry is the option to be an owner and be self employed. That route isn't really open in pharmacy.

However, if you're gonna take on $650,000 in dental school loans and another $700,000 in practice loans, why not take $50,000 and go see if you can start your own small business? Figure out some skill that's needed in society and provide the solution to it. Try a couple things and see what sticks. Charge less than you're worth then increase the price.

I'd bet that if you're smart enough to get into dental school, you could do some pretty amazing things with $1.3 million in funding for a small business idea. Probably could do some amazing things with $100k. You should look up Tim Ferriss if you haven't already. He's a big fan of taking the money you would've spent on an MBA and using it to learn from the success and failure of trying to be an entrepreneur.
 
The reality is that most, if not all, of you pre-dents have no inkling of what is in store for you, given that you actually get interviewed and accepted to dental school, when it comes to financing your education. My suggestion to you is not to go into dentistry if one of the primary reasons is for the projected salary. If you know what you're doing, then by all means. My father, a successful dentist that owns his practice, has informed me of what I need to know. I reiterate: if you are in it for the money, you will end up the slave in your master-slave relationship with it. You can't just go in blind with some academic faculty member verbally telling you that it's going to be "all good" or "just fine" or "not to worry." He or she has you as the last thing on his or her mind.
 
To call upon your financial powers, what is your opinion on Podiatry?


The 15 years is only for undergrad loans. Grad school loan forgiveness under Trump's plan is getting extended to 30 years!

There's a lot of ways I can help dentists plan for their loans as that's what I do for a living. There's a bunch of things you can do with PAYE, REPAYE, minimizing taxable income, etc. However, I created this thread bc I've seen the stress firsthand and I would never recommend putting yourself into that situation prospectively.



In general, being a lawyer, chiropractor, and veterinarian is a worse decision than being a dentist from a loans perspective. Being a physician is better. Being a PA or pharmacist is better from a loan standpoint unless you get into a reasonably priced in state school. Most of my PA and pharmacist clients are either refinancing or doing PSLF. In other words, loans are a part of their lives but they aren't a dominant centerpiece like they are for my NYU dentist clients, some of whom call me literally having no idea what to do.



Thanks @Ollivander , if I saved one person it was worth it.



Definitely be careful I agree. I'm giving a talk at an in state dental school in the bottom cost quartile and am really pumped about it. Will be able to give really useful tips on how to keep debt down, get into a practice, what are the biggest hurdles and opportunities my clients have said they're facing financially, etc. If NYU asked me to give the same talk, if I was honest with the students I would never be invited again anyway.



Not optometry. That's like vet med, lower income, lower ceiling, and you've still got substantial debt.

Pharmacy is a good choice if you just want to work to live. Not to say you can't be passionate about it, but pharmacists are essentially choosing a less risky path by going with around 150k debt and guaranteed 100k-120k incomes that will go up at the rate of inflation. I only have a couple pharmacists above 200k while maybe 85-90% of the dentists are above that.

The primary draw of dentistry is the option to be an owner and be self employed. That route isn't really open in pharmacy.

However, if you're gonna take on $650,000 in dental school loans and another $700,000 in practice loans, why not take $50,000 and go see if you can start your own small business? Figure out some skill that's needed in society and provide the solution to it. Try a couple things and see what sticks. Charge less than you're worth then increase the price.

I'd bet that if you're smart enough to get into dental school, you could do some pretty amazing things with $1.3 million in funding for a small business idea. Probably could do some amazing things with $100k. You should look up Tim Ferriss if you haven't already. He's a big fan of taking the money you would've spent on an MBA and using it to learn from the success and failure of trying to be an entrepreneur.
 
There is the estimated surplus of 50,000 PAs in the year 2022.

You could open a PA school in your backyard. Hire 10 PA professors who work part time for good money at 80k a pop. Have a class size of 80 to fit in some Room inside a nice building and charge them 30k a year in tuition+ whatever fees you want. You pay 200k a year for the room while paying 800k to the profs. That's 1 million spent however you bring in 2.4 million from the students.
Now imagine doing this on a larger scale, in every university you can imagine. PA school is going to be the next big thing after pharmacy school collapses.

Oh look 146 pa schools in 2010. 2017 225 are accredited. Probably 300 in 2021 lol.

Where did you get that forecast from? Sure there are a lot of schools, but their average class size is 40 students. There are only 7000 people graduating PA school every year, compare that to 22000 NPs. I also don't think that oversaturation is just going to hit out of nowhere. So far, unemployment rates are very very low for both NPs and PAs, in fact unheard of. The biggest issue isn't even saturation, but debt low. If you have minimal debt, you can always get out and move on to something else. If you are in debt up to your eyeballs, good luck getting out.
 
I would be careful about bashing any D school on this forum. Faculty and administration read it, and will not take kindly to any sort of negativity. The OP is not a dentist, nor does he have any aspirations to become one, and his risks are small. Dentistry is a very small world. It never pays to antagonize anyone.
Let's face it, no one is forcing anyone to sign off on student loans, it is a cognitive decision. If it is too much debt, don't do it. If you think you will be able to handle it, go ahead. It's like that Ferrari in the showroom.

Why?

Never in US history has social mobility through higher education been so broken than it is now. Literally never.

Kudos to this guy for helping out. We've got another similar person for my profession. In fact they've created a whole new ranking classification to compete against USNEWs that uses debt:income as a new metric for prehealth decision making
 
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Where did you get that forecast from? Sure there are a lot of schools, but their average class size is 40 students. There are only 7000 people graduating PA school every year, compare that to 22000 NPs. I also don't think that oversaturation is just going to hit out of nowhere. So far, unemployment rates are very very low for both NPs and PAs, in fact unheard of. The biggest issue isn't even saturation, but debt low. If you have minimal debt, you can always get out and move on to something else. If you are in debt up to your eyeballs, good luck getting out.

Hrsa. Oops my bad I read this thing like 4 months ago. the surplus is only* 20k not 50k by 2025 not 2022. That is for NPs. I get those 2 mixed up all the time.

https://bhw.hrsa.gov/sites/default/...rimary-care-national-projections2013-2025.pdf

Doesn't seem all rainbows and sunshine in the future when you consider that 79 PA schools have opened within what? 7 years?
 
Just shut up and let those going into dentistry be excited about it. Especially for pre-dents we've all spent years preparing and doing our best to get into a great school we don't need to see the negativity of everything that is dental school. If we're choosing this profession it's because we're passionate about it. Everyone can google tuition prices and figure out how far in debt they're going to be. For the vast majority everything will work out and if you truly love dentistry you'll be happy no matter if you make 100k a year or 400z


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Thanks for the advice. A lot of students do not know how much money is 100k let alone 300k or 600k. That is too much for student debt, toooo much! No matter the profession it's a lot of money. The government should fix this issue. No student should be in so much debt! The student debt will hunt you down when you want to buy a nice house, a nice car and save for retirement.

Puerto Rico's dental school is super cheap. I know some dentists, specially ONE of them, that has a 1 million dollars apartment but then again, dental school in PR is like 8k a year and they pay it off the first or second year they start working as a dentist.

Id rather have a nice car and nice house than be in so much debt but no one should pursue this career for money.
 
Just shut up and let people fall out of airplanes without the proper education about what they are getting into.

Just shut up and let those going into dentistry be excited about it. Especially for pre-dents we've all spent years preparing and doing our best to get into a great school we don't need to see the negativity of everything that is dental school. If we're choosing this profession it's because we're passionate about it. Everyone can google tuition prices and figure out how far in debt they're going to be. For the vast majority everything will work out and if you truly love dentistry you'll be happy no matter if you make 100k a year or 400z


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To call upon your financial powers, what is your opinion on Podiatry?

Do you like teeth or feet better? Just kidding. Honestly I don't have as much experience with podiatrists so I wouldn't be much help there. In general, if you can get a full time 501c3 hospital job the loan costs would be lower with PSLF.

Why?

So people can be warned about the literal Ponzi schemes the heads of some professions are perpetuating through their credentialing processes?

Never in US history has social mobility through higher education been so broken than it is now. Literally never.

Kudos to this guy for helping out. We've got another similar person for my profession. In fact they've created a whole new ranking classification to compete against USNEWs that uses debt:income as a new metric for prehealth decision making

I'd be really interested in seeing the link to that list if you could PM me that'd be great!

Just shut up and let those going into dentistry be excited about it. Especially for pre-dents we've all spent years preparing and doing our best to get into a great school we don't need to see the negativity of everything that is dental school. If we're choosing this profession it's because we're passionate about it. Everyone can google tuition prices and figure out how far in debt they're going to be. For the vast majority everything will work out and if you truly love dentistry you'll be happy no matter if you make 100k a year or 400z


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Obviously it's up to each person to make the decision they think is best for them. Based on my convos with clients who are newly graduated dentists, most of them didn't think in terms of the after tax monthly payment they'd need to make to pay their loans back.

Another point is that dentist incomes have declined from like a 220k average a few years ago to something like 170k today because of declining reimbursement from PPO plans like Delta Dental which are ravaging reimbursement rates. Signs point to further declining dental incomes because of the rise of corporate dental groups that employ most new graduates.

So if your passionate about it by all means go do it. We desperately need good dentists like the folks on this forum. I just feel obligated to let people know when I think there's misleading recruiting going on
 
Do you like teeth or feet better? Just kidding. Honestly I don't have as much experience with podiatrists so I wouldn't be much help there. In general, if you can get a full time 501c3 hospital job the loan costs would be lower with PSLF.



I'd be really interested in seeing the link to that list if you could PM me that'd be great!



Obviously it's up to each person to make the decision they think is best for them. Based on my convos with clients who are newly graduated dentists, most of them didn't think in terms of the after tax monthly payment they'd need to make to pay their loans back.

Another point is that dentist incomes have declined from like a 220k average a few years ago to something like 170k today because of declining reimbursement from PPO plans like Delta Dental which are ravaging reimbursement rates. Signs point to further declining dental incomes because of the rise of corporate dental groups that employ most new graduates.

So if your passionate about it by all means go do it. We desperately need good dentists like the folks on this forum. I just feel obligated to let people know when I think there's misleading recruiting going on

NYU is obviously ridiculous. However, if you have the aptitude to be a doctor you should know what financial situation you're getting into.


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Just shut up and let those going into dentistry be excited about it. Especially for pre-dents we've all spent years preparing and doing our best to get into a great school we don't need to see the negativity of everything that is dental school. If we're choosing this profession it's because we're passionate about it. Everyone can google tuition prices and figure out how far in debt they're going to be. For the vast majority everything will work out and if you truly love dentistry you'll be happy no matter if you make 100k a year or 400z

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Are you posssesed or somethin??
 
In your experience, you stated that general dentists gross about 120-130K/year. How long does it take before the dentists are making in the 200K+ range? 170K?

120K is roughly 80K after taxes, which is something like 6.5K/month. If a dentist could make a take home income of 100K/year (which is something like 155K/year) that is roughly about 8.3K per month. If you like off of 2K/year and throw 6.3K/month at the loan, that would equal somewhere around the ballpark of 75K/year in repayment.

75K repayment (X) 10 years= 750K. That should cover the loan. So in reality, if a dentist is willing to live at a lifestyle of 2k/month (which is what I do currently, I would say I'm fine, not wealthy by any means, but fine) for 10 years before he has paid off his debt. Doesn't seem too bad.

Do you like teeth or feet better? Just kidding. Honestly I don't have as much experience with podiatrists so I wouldn't be much help there. In general, if you can get a full time 501c3 hospital job the loan costs would be lower with PSLF.



I'd be really interested in seeing the link to that list if you could PM me that'd be great!



Obviously it's up to each person to make the decision they think is best for them. Based on my convos with clients who are newly graduated dentists, most of them didn't think in terms of the after tax monthly payment they'd need to make to pay their loans back.

Another point is that dentist incomes have declined from like a 220k average a few years ago to something like 170k today because of declining reimbursement from PPO plans like Delta Dental which are ravaging reimbursement rates. Signs point to further declining dental incomes because of the rise of corporate dental groups that employ most new graduates.

So if your passionate about it by all means go do it. We desperately need good dentists like the folks on this forum. I just feel obligated to let people know when I think there's misleading recruiting going on
 
Just shut up and let those going into dentistry be excited about it. Especially for pre-dents we've all spent years preparing and doing our best to get into a great school we don't need to see the negativity of everything that is dental school. If we're choosing this profession it's because we're passionate about it. Everyone can google tuition prices and figure out how far in debt they're going to be. For the vast majority everything will work out and if you truly love dentistry you'll be happy no matter if you make 100k a year or 400z


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Just going to venture that you've never paid down student loans and likely never held a full time job.

Big Hoss
 
In your experience, you stated that general dentists gross about 120-130K/year. How long does it take before the dentists are making in the 200K+ range? 170K?

120K is roughly 80K after taxes, which is something like 6.5K/month. If a dentist could make a take home income of 100K/year (which is something like 155K/year) that is roughly about 8.3K per month. If you like off of 2K/year and throw 6.3K/month at the loan, that would equal somewhere around the ballpark of 75K/year in repayment.

75K repayment (X) 10 years= 750K. That should cover the loan. So in reality, if a dentist is willing to live at a lifestyle of 2k/month (which is what I do currently, I would say I'm fine, not wealthy by any means, but fine) for 10 years before he has paid off his debt. Doesn't seem too bad.
It's hard to live off $2k a month as a practicing dentist for 10 years. Malpractice and disability insurance bite into that immediately. Also the whole family thing can add up quickly.

Pay range is very location dependent. My classmates took offers averaging in the $120-140k range. (I just graduated). But some had offers guaranteeing $150k to 175k all the way up to $240k. Rural dentistry $$$ is no joke. I'm in the Midwest so YMMV.
 
In your experience, you stated that general dentists gross about 120-130K/year. How long does it take before the dentists are making in the 200K+ range? 170K?

120K is roughly 80K after taxes, which is something like 6.5K/month. If a dentist could make a take home income of 100K/year (which is something like 155K/year) that is roughly about 8.3K per month. If you like off of 2K/year and throw 6.3K/month at the loan, that would equal somewhere around the ballpark of 75K/year in repayment.

75K repayment (X) 10 years= 750K. That should cover the loan. So in reality, if a dentist is willing to live at a lifestyle of 2k/month (which is what I do currently, I would say I'm fine, not wealthy by any means, but fine) for 10 years before he has paid off his debt. Doesn't seem too bad.
So, they'd be living like a student for the next decade of their life. What happens if they've got a family? Savings for retirement? Hoping their car doesn't need any major repairs? Hoping for no other unforeseen financial challenges? Life is expensive. Go to the cheapest school you get into! I promise you'll thank me afterwards.

Big Hoss
 
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