podiatry is medical school

[PodiatryMD]

I dont care what all other "haters" think but podiatry is medical school. I am all for changing DPM to PMD. Trust me this is coming and the profession is on the rise.

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[g squared 23]

I'll agree that podiatry school is very rigorous and challenging. Call it what you want to call it, I don't care as long as the training is excellent.

As far as a degree change, I think it would be the best way to very quickly make huge strides towards the parity that the profession has been so desperately trying to achieve.

 

[347932]

As far as a degree change, I think it would be the best way to very quickly make huge strides towards the parity that the profession has been so desperately trying to achieve.

If you want to be an MD, go to allopathic medical school imho. I was the generation of Podiatry Students where the MD degree change was all the rage. It doesn't make sense to me at all.

Parity is gained by education, not the letters after your name. Be the best. Know you are the best and be humble about it. Educate our medical colleagues gently. We are not desperately trying to do anything. We have made huge strides in our profession through many avenues, least of which is trying to become MDs.

What many don't realize about our allopathic brethren is there isn't even parity in their own profession. There are specialties that are looked down upon and who regularly get chastised. Be part of a big medical school system as an attending and you will quickly find out what this is.

Nobody in my community questions me about what I can or do do. Foot and Ankle issues come up and they call me or a local Podiatry Colleague. Yes there are issues with Orthopods about trauma, but try to get an Ortho to touch a diabetic foot issue and you'll see how differently they react.

Stop trying to justify yourself and just do what you are trained to do. If you do it well and humbly so, everything will fall into place.

 

[Busdriver321]

In my opinion, comments and threads like these reflect poorly on our profession. As Kidsfeet said, don't try to justify your profession. We don't need to justify or make comments such as these. We are well trained medical professionals. Have some pride in your decision and quit defending the "we are medical students, we go to medical school" crap because it will do no good.
Kidsfeet nailed it. Learn all you can in school. Go into the workforce and show your stuff. That is the only way people will open there eyes to podiatry.

I am proud to say I am a pod student. I go to podiatry school and will become a podiatrist. My degree will be a DPM. I am not insecure about this.

 

[RATM2010]

My only issue is people in pod school that do not claim the pod part of it. I have compared the school curriculum and setup, residencie, etc and I think it is a type of "medical school" and the students are training to be a type of "medical doctor." However, the word podiatry should be placed before all of this. I am a podiatric medical student. I go to podiatric medical school. I agree with the later posts that this is all a mute point at our level. I also disagree that there should not be a little more paridy. I disagree that pod physicians should be grouped as "allied health professionals" like dieticians and audiologist. The argument about dentists and pharmacists is mute as well because their curriculm is not the same model as md/do schools. For instance, a pod w/o residency is almost without any options. A dental/pharmacy student w/o a residency has the same options minus a little bit. My point: this fight is above us all for now and will take a long time to change. All we can do as students and practicing pods is do the best we can to represent the field we are in. Look how far DO has come in terms of social perception, but it still is a long ways from MD. I don't know any DOs that are running around mad they are not MDs. Pods should follow suit and allow their actions to win over the battle of perception. A careful step in this battle is programs that allow DPM--> DO. (ALthough this is a costly and mostly ineffective option, someone realizes that PODS are capable of managing more than just the feet and they they are indeed capable medical physicians).

 

[347932]

In my opinion, comments and threads like these reflect poorly on our profession. As Kidsfeet said, don't try to justify your profession. We don't need to justify or make comments such as these. We are well trained medical professionals. Have some pride in your decision and quit defending the "we are medical students, we go to medical school" crap because it will do no good.
Kidsfeet nailed it. Learn all you can in school. Go into the workforce and show your stuff. That is the only way people will open there eyes to podiatry.

I am proud to say I am a pod student. I go to podiatry school and will become a podiatrist. My degree will be a DPM. I am not insecure about this.

Thanks

 

[air bud]

In my opinion, comments and threads like these reflect poorly on our profession.

Absolutely correct

 

[PodiatryMD]

Just like some dont think we should do residency for Pod school, I think it's wrong. We all should be doing 3 yrs of residency. If you don't like it, dont do the profession.
Also, Look at the Oral Surgeons. They have DMD. I think PMD will help us in the long run. Just my opinion.

 

[347932]

Also, Look at the Oral Surgeons. They have DMD. I think PMD will help us in the long run. Just my opinion.

Wait a sec...I thought DMD = Doctor of Medical Dentistry. What does that have to do with being an MD (Medical Doctor)?

PMD = Podiatric Medical Doctor I presume? Rather than Doctor of Podiatric Medicine? How is this any different. Forgive my naivete, but what exactly would this hope to accomplish?

 

[sideways]

Wait a sec...I thought DMD = Doctor of Medical Dentistry. What does that have to do with being an MD (Medical Doctor)?

PMD = Podiatric Medical Doctor I presume? Rather than Doctor of Podiatric Medicine? How is this any different. Forgive my naivete, but what exactly would this hope to accomplish?

MD stands for Doctor of Medicine.

 

[347932]

MD stands for Doctor of Medicine.[/QUOTE

When you finish Medical School you are awarded the degree of Doctor of Medicine. However in modern times MD is generally referred to as a Medical Doctor.

 

[sideways]

When you finish Medical School you are awarded the degree of Doctor of Medicine. However in modern times MD is generally referred to as a Medical Doctor.

Medical doctor is used to distinguish physicians from others holding doctorate-level degrees that aren't physicians. MD just coincidentally begins with the same letters.

 

[347932]

Medical doctor is used to distinguish physicians from others holding doctorate-level degrees that aren't physicians. MD just coincidentally begins with the same letters.

Can you perhaps link where you are getting this information? Thanks.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Just like some dont think we should do residency for Pod school, I think it's wrong. We all should be doing 3 yrs of residency. If you don't like it, dont do the profession.
Also, Look at the Oral Surgeons. They have DMD. I think PMD will help us in the long run. Just my opinion.

Plenty of oral surgeon actually carry the degree DDS.

 

[Marcus X]

Can you perhaps link where you are getting this information? Thanks.

It's from the Latin "Medicinae Doctor," meaning "teacher of medicine". Similar to PhD, "Philosophiae Doctor," meaning "teacher of philosophy".

I always suspected that taking Latin would be useful someday.

 

[cbrons]

I dont care what all other "haters" think but podiatry is medical school. I am all for changing DPM to PMD. Trust me this is coming and the profession is on the rise.

Um lol no? What would PMD stand for? It's stuff like this that illegitimate professions (pods not being one of them) use to gain equivalency with physicians in order to expand their scope of practice. Would you like to be able to prescribe psychotropics and beta blockers? Clearly pod school doesn't train you to diagnose and treat the wide array of problems that medical school does. Changing the name of the degree won't change that fact and it makes you seem insecure about your training focus which you really shouldn't be.

 

[347932]

Um lol no? What would PMD stand for? It's stuff like this that illegitimate professions (pods not being one of them) use to gain equivalency with physicians in order to expand their scope of practice. Would you like to be able to prescribe psychotropics and beta blockers? Clearly pod school doesn't train you to diagnose and treat the wide array of problems that medical school does. Changing the name of the degree won't change that fact and it makes you seem insecure about your training focus which you really shouldn't be.

Actually I did do a Psych and Internal Med course, as well as a very complete Pharmacology course in Podiatry School, and when I was an intern at a Medical School I was prescribing these when on those rotations.

Just to be on the same page, how many Orthopedists prescribe those in practice? Technically we CAN prescribe those but that would interfere with how our scope of practice revolves around what those meds do and are for. Much the same as an Orthopod would have to answer the same questions about why they aren't letting an FP or Internist prescribe these for their mutual patients.

 

[densmore22]

Um lol no? What would PMD stand for? It's stuff like this that illegitimate professions (pods not being one of them) use to gain equivalency with physicians in order to expand their scope of practice. Would you like to be able to prescribe psychotropics and beta blockers? Clearly pod school doesn't train you to diagnose and treat the wide array of problems that medical school does. Changing the name of the degree won't change that fact and it makes you seem insecure about your training focus which you really shouldn't be.

I know plenty of MD's that would never prescribe Beta blockers or psychotropic drugs and would even be considered malpractice if they did so. It's not the school that matters, it's the residency training. Ask any practicing physician in any discipline, it's all about the training. Simply graduating from allopathic, osteopathic, or podiatric Medical schools doesn't automatically make you capable. I just think we (mainly people on this forum) get too damn hung up on titles. Be the best that you can be in your chosen profession and all this other petty symantic bull **** won't matter. I knew from day 1 that I wasn't going to be managing LBBB or depression or celiac sprue or whatever, but it only contributes to my practice well being the more I know and understand these disorders and more importantly, how they will affect what I may be doing both conservatively or surgically or how I may affect those other disorders that my patient may have. I've written for beta blockers and psychotropic drugs as a resident for patients that I've been entrusted to care for and no one would consider it out of the norm or malpractice, because it was something that needed to be done. Will I do that when I'm done with residency, there may be a remote situation at some point where I may, in fact, have a necessity to write for those, but in general, no, I won't be writing for those drugs on a routine basis. I used those classes of drugs as examples because I was making a point, just not to confuse anyone.

Take home message, WHO GIVES A FLYING F*CK what your credentials are! You should be giving a flying f*ck how to excel on your next rotation or what the latest research on topic X, Y, Z in order to be the best you can for your patients. From my experience so far (and I've worked in the medical field for nearly 10 years now), the only people that give a **** about what degree you have are the people that probably aren't doing that great of a job to begin with or are so completely unhappy or were underacheivers and couldn't obtain the actual training they really wanted to get.

Get over yourselves, everyone on here about this stupid, pointless debate!

 

[JaggerPlate]

I know plenty of MD's that would never prescribe Beta blockers or psychotropic drugs and would even be considered malpractice if they did so. It's not the school that matters, it's the residency training. Ask any practicing physician in any discipline, it's all about the training. Simply graduating from allopathic, osteopathic medical, or podiatry school doesn't automatically make you capable. I just think we (mainly people on this forum) get too damn hung up on titles. Be the best that you can be in your chosen profession and all this other petty symantic bull **** won't matter. I knew from day 1 that I wasn't going to be managing LBBB or depression or celiac sprue or whatever, but it only contributes to my practice well being the more I know and understand these disorders and more importantly, how they will affect what I may be doing both conservatively or surgically or how I may affect those other disorders that my patient may have. I've written for beta blockers and psychotropic drugs as a resident for patients that I've been entrusted to care for and no one would consider it out of the norm or malpractice, because it was something that needed to be done. Will I do that when I'm done with residency, there may be a remote situation at some point where I may, in fact, have a necessity to write for those, but in general, no, I won't be writing for those drugs on a routine basis. I used those classes of drugs as examples because I was making a point, just not to confuse anyone.

Take home message, WHO GIVES A FLYING F*CK what your credentials are! You should be giving a flying f*ck how to excel on your next rotation or what the latest research on topic X, Y, Z in order to be the best you can for your patients. From my experience so far (and I've worked in the medical field for nearly 10 years now), the only people that give a **** about what degree you have are the people that probably aren't doing that great of a job to begin with or are so completely unhappy or were underacheivers and couldn't obtain the actual training they really wanted to get.

Get over yourselves, everyone on here about this stupid, pointless debate!

 

[pacpod]

I applied to podiatry school.
I am a podiatry student.
I will proudly hold the DPM degree.

I don't get why so many people in pod school want to be called a medical student. Yes, we are students in the medical field, but calling oneself a "medical student" infers that you are in an MD/DO program, that is just the way things are. I say we just embrace calling ourselves podiatry students (as students going into dentistry call themselves dental students) and educate the people that ask us about it. Lets be a positive impact on the field!

 

[krabmas]

Just like some dont think we should do residency for Pod school, I think it's wrong. We all should be doing 3 yrs of residency. If you don't like it, dont do the profession.
Also, Look at the Oral Surgeons. They have DMD. I think PMD will help us in the long run. Just my opinion.

DDS - doctor of dental surgery

DMD - doctor of dental medicine

found by the trusted source of wikipedia.

DDS and DMD are equivalent degrees. It depends which dental school was attended for which degree is awarded.

someone who earns a DMD or a DDS is able to apply for and has equal chance of being accepted into an OMFS residency. Some OMFS candidates take an extra year or 2 to earn an MD degree as well.

I've been looking into this for a while, but have not yet found the answer...
I've been wondering what the scope difference is for:

OMFS that is DDS/DMD
OMFS that is DDS/DMD --> MD
Plastic reconstructive surgeon that did craneofacial or head and neck fellowship


The plastic resident did a general surgery type residency (some do gen surg then plastics fellowship others go straight to plastics residency then more specialized fellowship)

The OMFS with any of the 3 degrees mentioned (DDS, DMD, MD) did an OMFS residency an unknown amount of general surgery and other rotations.

The reason I bring this up is because it seems as though the OMFS are allowed to harvest their own fibular grafts, rib grafts, skin grafts (FTSG and STSG) which is clearly not in the area of the head and neck

It seems that privileging for all the MD specialties is based on training and not fine lines of demarcation. I think this is what we should be fighting for - privileges based on training - not just moving the line of scope further up the leg.

I have no interest in doing knee surgery, but if I need a FTSG and I have trained to take them from the groin I should be able to.

Like kidsfeet and others have said we are our own worst enemies. The pods of yesteryear wrote these scopes into law with out much thought for how restrictive they are.

 

[drdandelion]

I dont care what all other "haters" think but podiatry is medical school. I am all for changing DPM to PMD. Trust me this is coming and the profession is on the rise.

Why did you go to podiatry school if you want an MD? Let's face it, that "P" makes a difference whether you like it or not...

I don't disagree that podiatry school is rigorous. I'm sure it is! But it's not called "medical school." Sorry...

 

[347932]

I applied to podiatry school.
I am a podiatry student.
I will proudly hold the DPM degree.

I don't get why so many people in pod school want to be called a medical student. Yes, we are students in the medical field, but calling oneself a "medical student" infers that you are in an MD/DO program, that is just the way things are. I say we just embrace calling ourselves podiatry students (as students going into dentistry call themselves dental students) and educate the people that ask us about it. Lets be a positive impact on the field!

I agree with you 100%. I'm about to simply offer an explanation, although I disagree with it mostly.

1) Many podiatry students share the classroom with MD students for the first two years.

2) In your first year of residency as a Podiatry Resident, particularly if you do your residency at a teaching hospital/medical school, you are expected to have the same competency as your intern colleagues in medical internship. When I was on my Infectious Disease rotation in my "internship" ten years ago, I was the ONLY intern/resident on the floor that month and had three med students to teach and help with patients.

3) We, as podiatrists, can technically prescribe any drug we want and many of our sick diabetic patients are on huge lists of meds we need to be familiar with to avoid drug interactions...etc.

I'm a Podiatrist who does plenty of Foot and Ankle Surgery. 'Nuff said.

 

[347932]

Why did you go to podiatry school if you want an MD? Let's face it, that "P" makes a difference whether you like it or not...

I don't disagree that podiatry school is rigorous. I'm sure it is! But it's not called "medical school." Sorry...

The common argument is that those that "can't" get in to MD school elect to go into Podiatry as a "back up".

Podiatry was my 1st choice. I can only speak for myself, though.

 

[densmore22]

I agree with you 100%. I'm about to simply offer an explanation, although I disagree with it mostly.

1) Many podiatry students share the classroom with MD students for the first two years.

2) In your first year of residency as a Podiatry Resident, particularly if you do your residency at a teaching hospital/medical school, you are expected to have the same competency as your intern colleagues in medical internship. When I was on my Infectious Disease rotation in my "internship" ten years ago, I was the ONLY intern/resident on the floor that month and had three med students to teach and help with patients.

3) We, as podiatrists, can technically prescribe any drug we want and many of our sick diabetic patients are on huge lists of meds we need to be familiar with to avoid drug interactions...etc.

I'm a Podiatrist who does plenty of Foot and Ankle Surgery. 'Nuff said.

This is untrue and part of the myth that gets perpetuated. Des Moines University (where I attended) takes NEARLY all of their basic science, 1st year classes (minus I think ethics and psychology) with the DO students and the only class in 2nd year is pharmacology. DMU and Arizona are the only 2 schools that routinely take multiple classes with DO students. Scholl claims they do, but they don't, they take part of gross anatomy with the MD students. Most basic sciences at all the schools are taught by faculty that teach at other allopathic universities, but they do not physically sit in the same room and take the same test (although I suppose it could be the same questions, I don't know). This is a huge pet peeve of mine, we need to quit saying this! Podiatry school is podiatry school! Like said by others, if you don't like it, don't go into it, simple as that! It's not lesser or inferior, it unique and a great career. What makes it seem inferior is the inferiority complex podiatry students and practicing pods have for their chosen profession. Own it because it's a great career. I just scrubbed a splenectomy with a world renowned vascular surgeon, the whole time I was in awe because it was pretty cool, but after rounding and having to order FFP and PRBC's and checking HCT every 8 hours (including throughout the night) it makes me realize that although that stuff is pretty awesome, what we do for people with F&A surgery is pretty awesome as well. I will lose a lot less sleep at night knowing my patients are stable and go home with little problems afterward than managing a very sick patient s/p splenectomy, for example.

 

[347932]

This is untrue and part of the myth that gets perpetuated. Des Moines University (where I attended) takes NEARLY all of their basic science, 1st year classes (minus I think ethics and psychology) with the DO students and the only class in 2nd year is pharmacology. DMU and Arizona are the only 2 schools that routinely take multiple classes with DO students. Scholl claims they do, but they don't, they take part of gross anatomy with the MD students. Most basic sciences at all the schools are taught by faculty that teach at other allopathic universities, but they do not physically sit in the same room and take the same test (although I suppose it could be the same questions, I don't know). This is a huge pet peeve of mine, we need to quit saying this! Podiatry school is podiatry school! Like said by others, if you don't like it, don't go into it, simple as that! It's not lesser or inferior, it unique and a great career. What makes it seem inferior is the inferiority complex podiatry students and practicing pods have for their chosen profession. Own it because it's a great career. I just scrubbed a splenectomy with a world renowned vascular surgeon, the whole time I was in awe because it was pretty cool, but after rounding and having to order FFP and PRBC's and checking HCT every 8 hours (including throughout the night) it makes me realize that although that stuff is pretty awesome, what we do for people with F&A surgery is pretty awesome as well. I will lose a lot less sleep at night knowing my patients are stable and go home with little problems afterward than managing a very sick patient s/p splenectomy, for example.

I'm not sure I follow where you say that what I proposed is untrue and mythic.

I know that 2) is true because I lived it. I know 3) is true because there are no limitations per se on what I can prescribe. The question is should you in this regard.

The real quirk is 1), because I've heard this more anecdotally which is why I said many, not "most" or "all".

Again, I don't agree, but was merely proposing some answers.

 

[drdandelion]

The common argument is that those that "can't" get in to MD school elect to go into Podiatry as a "back up".

Podiatry was my 1st choice. I can only speak for myself, though.

It would certainly seem as though podiatry was a "back up" for the OP, otherwise s/he wouldn't have a problem with the title...I do have to admit that I have a cousin in podiatric residency and she went into podiatry partly for interest and partly because she didn't have what it took to get into med school...

But I'm glad that there are people like you who made podiatry their first choice! Podiatry is important for saving lives just like traditional medicine, since the foot is your foundation! So there's no reason why anyone should feel insecure about the title. If people aren't sure what "podiatry" is, simply educate them! I'm not even planning on going into podiatry. I'm planning on going to an allopathic med school! So if I can vouch for the legitimacy of podiatry, there's no reason why a podiatrist can't!

 

[cbrons]

The bottom line is that DPMs, NPs, PAs, DNPs, and whatever will never achieve true parity with MD-DO... at least not by changing titles, begging shaky political hacks to rewrite laws in hopes that they'll never be challenged and acting as if they've already gained equivalency. If you think degree titles really afford a profession respect, you should look no further than DO physicians. They fought in all 50 states and against one of the most powerful lobbying behemoths the country has ever seen for a good part of a century and yet still managed to achieve full legal equivalency. They didn't do it by renaming the degree (even when a sizable group of DOs and the AMA itself were urging the AOA to merge and cease differentiating themselves from their MD counterparts completely). They did it by proving that their education and breadth of training was equivalent. Of course this was after several decades of evolution and self-improvement but the end result was that the country came to accept the DO as someone who could legitimately call himself a physician and DO students could legitimately call themselves "medical students" who go to "medical school."

I read a thread the other day about PAs wanting to be called Physician Associates or Associate Physicians because they didn't feel their current title was an accurate representation of their knowledge and skillset. And of course you now have the so-called Doctor Nurses who openly claim equivalency to physicians. They could rename the degree to God of Medicine but it's still not going to change the fact that anyone with the ability to perform the simple task of comparing and contrasting education, training, licensing protocols, etc. can see its a bunch of non-sense.

So who gives a damn what the ****ing degree title is? What... being a foot surgeon isn't enough? Making twice as much as your average MD/DO in primary care specialties isn't enough? You have to be so insecure to keep trying to ram this whole degree thing down everyone's throat? Is it that some pods students want so badly to be able to tell their parents that they're in "med school" because they think it affords them some type of prestige and increased social value (which I would guess is mostly illusory anyway)?

I have a younger brother (a big-10 collegiate athlete) who sees a pod regularly for his ankle issues. You should see the guy. He has three practices in a major city, drives around in a BMW and is pretty damn happy with his life and his career. He's good at what he does and everyone knows it: he knows it, his patients know it and other health care professionals know it. Go ask him and all the other practicing pods out there if this illusory quest for prestige is really worth the waste of time and energy.

Arguing that the state of New York should allow pods to "have the ankle" is one thing. Whining about the initials behind your name and telling everyone your education is equivalent to physicians is an entirely different and really very sad (re: insecure) approach.

Anyway that's my opinion. It is just an opinion. It is one man's opinion.

 

[slick27]

I think podiatry is a great option if you would like to do surgery, and do not want to spend the time putting in a five year residency and one or two year fellowship. Even though pods have the option of completing a residency, but with less time constraints.

 

[347932]

I think podiatry is a great option if you would like to do surgery, and do not want to spend the time putting in a five year residency and one or two year fellowship. Even though pods have the option of completing a residency, but with less time constraints.

Interesting perspective. For me it wasn't a matter of "spending the time", it was a matter I knew I wanted to work on the foot and ankle only.

Also, in this day and age, there is really no "option" about whether to do residency or not. Many states will not offer you a license unless you've had at least one year of residency and most hospitals will not put you on staff unless you have certain certifications which you can only attain by completing residency.

What five year residency in any other path gives a physician the same experience with foot and ankle care? Just curious.

 

[DOtoCanada]

I've dealt with the "I'm just as good/better as you" attitude from pod students, one in particular. My school has both DPM and DO programs. We share several classes, but definitely not most. I made a statement about the hours I'm putting in for one of my rotations and the size of the textbook and this student's response was "Well, welcome to my world. Try being a pod student. We know everything that you know PLUS we put in all of this extra work to know everything from the hip down. We are like the Harvard of pod schools. It's so much harder than what you have to do."

Really? Insecure much? I'm confident in handling an ICU patient or a trauma patients (commensurate with my level of training, of course). I can look at a peripheral blood smear and know more than this student would. That is what my training has given me. Hand me a patient with a diabetic foot ulcer, a sports related ankle injury, foot trauma, etc and I'm sure this student would run circles around me and I'm more than happy to ask for help!

This attitude is by far not present in most of the student body but it is there and they put an ugly face on the whole group. We all knew what we were going to be able to do when we entered school. Be happy with that, but more importantly, be GOOD at that. Doing so will never make you justify your existence to anyone.

 

[347932]

I've dealt with the "I'm just as good/better as you" attitude from pod students, one in particular. My school has both DPM and DO programs. We share several classes, but definitely not most. I made a statement about the hours I'm putting in for one of my rotations and the size of the textbook and this student's response was "Well, welcome to my world. Try being a pod student. We know everything that you know PLUS we put in all of this extra work to know everything from the hip down. We are like the Harvard of pod schools. It's so much harder than what you have to do."

Really? Insecure much? I'm confident in handling an ICU patient or a trauma patients (commensurate with my level of training, of course). I can look at a peripheral blood smear and know more than this student would. That is what my training has given me. Hand me a patient with a diabetic foot ulcer, a sports related ankle injury, foot trauma, etc and I'm sure this student would run circles around me and I'm more than happy to ask for help!

This attitude is by far not present in most of the student body but it is there and they put an ugly face on the whole group. We all knew what we were going to be able to do when we entered school. Be happy with that, but more importantly, be GOOD at that. Doing so will never make you justify your existence to anyone.

You have just fallen into the trap my friend. That one student baited you and you bought it, hook, line and sinker. One pod student rubs you the wrong way and now you are just as guilty as he or she is of what it is you are getting down on. Don't feel the need to justify anything to anyone. You are what you are. Don't let the insecure knock you down to their level. You'll be a better practitioner for it.

 

[janV88]

A degree change? This has got to be the worst idea ever. What will it achieve?? Nothing...

Scholl claims they do, but they don't, they take part of gross anatomy with the MD students.

1.) Scholl never claims to take most of the same classes as the MD students. If you ask them they will tell you straight up what classes we take with the MD students. Pre-pods just assume we take a lot more classes since there is an MD program here.

2.) We take ALL of gross anatomy with the MD students. Same lecture exams and same lab practical exams. Although we don't sit in the same room as them since they take combined biweekly exams whereas our exams are split up by subject, I assure you...they are the SAME questions.

3.) The only other substantial class we take with the MD students is Essentials in Clinical Reasoning. This is where we learn some basic clinical knowledge...H&Ps, etc.

I made a statement about...the size of the textbook

 

[densmore22]

JanV88- I know many Scholl students personally that have claimed "We take our classes with the MD students." Direct quote from 4 Scholl students that I have talked too. There's nothing wrong with saying that you've taken a class or 2 with them, but these students led me to the impression that they have done most of their schooling with them. You're the first person that I've seen come on here and actually set the record straight so thank you for that. Again, it comes down to perceptions and I will admit, I could have heard all 4 of them wrong, but that's not the impression they gave me. Most others I've talked too have not led me to this impression.

DOtocanada- I'm sorry you came across one bad, misrepresentation of our great profession. On the other end, I've ran into many DO students that have rubbed me the wrong way throughout my schooling, but I do not hold it against all DO's. I don't think you are holding anything against DPM's, but just remember, it's one Jack-A** in a sea of non-jack-a**es (hopefully).

cbrons- Great post, couldn't agree more.

Repeated by many throughout, but it rings true. Be proud of what you do, no one profession is better or less, the bottom line, the better you do, the less you'll have to "sway" others or convince them.

 

[karizma098]

podiatry is not medical school, and there's nothing wrong with that. fighting for a degree change or equivalency to a physician is pointless, a physician has a different patient base , job, and training. taking the same classes as med students doesnt mean much, the major bulk of knowledge physicians gain is during our residency training, taking anatomy , patho, or clinical reasoning pretty much has 0 clinical application in the hospital.
DPM's are foot specialists, and they serve a unique role in the healthcare world, as do anesthesiologists, pediatricians, radiologists, etc, etc.
also, DPM's make 2X more than primary care? that's amazing, based on my experience i never thought y'all were pulling in 400k/ year.

good for you. =)

 

[karizma098]

Interesting perspective. For me it wasn't a matter of "spending the time", it was a matter I knew I wanted to work on the foot and ankle only.

Also, in this day and age, there is really no "option" about whether to do residency or not. Many states will not offer you a license unless you've had at least one year of residency and most hospitals will not put you on staff unless you have certain certifications which you can only attain by completing residency.

What five year residency in any other path gives a physician the same experience with foot and ankle care? Just curious.

orthopedic surgery? might be 6 if you specialize in ankle though.

 

[janV88]

a physician has a different patient base , job, and training.

I disagree.

taking the same classes as med students doesnt mean much, the major bulk of knowledge physicians gain is during our residency training, taking anatomy , patho, or clinical reasoning pretty much has 0 clinical application in the hospital.

DPMs do a 3 year surgical residency with various rotations such as gen surg, IM, EM, Vascular, Plastics, Anes, ID, Ortho, Ortho trauma, Ortho F&A, and of course Podiatric Surgery. During residency, DPMs learn a lot about the Foot and Ankle but they are also expected to perform as any resident would in any rotation. DPMs are expected to be able to medically manage their patients...just like any other MD/DO surgical specialty.

 

[347932]

orthopedic surgery? might be 6 if you specialize in ankle though.

Terribly sorry to burst your bubble, but there is no orthopedic residency in the country that offers the same Foot and Ankle training as one would get in a 3 year Podiatric Medicine and Surgery Residency. Trauma maybe, but not complete foot and ankle surgical interventions that are our bread and butter.

Also if you care to do a search, you'll find an AMA article that states that even in the Foot and Ankle Fellowships being offered to Orthopedic Surgeons on completion of their residency, they are very understaffed with Foot and Ankle Fellowship trained Orthopedics. In fact, 80% of those fellowships don't even have a Foot and Ankle Fellowship trained Orthopedist on staff. You know who is training those Foot and Ankle Orthopedic Fellows at those facilities? Podiatrists are. Crazy, I know right?

 

[karizma098]

Terribly sorry to burst your bubble, but there is no orthopedic residency in the country that offers the same Foot and Ankle training as one would get in a 3 year Podiatric Medicine and Surgery Residency. Trauma maybe, but not complete foot and ankle surgical interventions that are our bread and butter.

Also if you care to do a search, you'll find an AMA article that states that even in the Foot and Ankle Fellowships being offered to Orthopedic Surgeons on completion of their residency, they are very understaffed with Foot and Ankle Fellowship trained Orthopedics. In fact, 80% of those fellowships don't even have a Foot and Ankle Fellowship trained Orthopedist on staff. You know who is training those Foot and Ankle Orthopedic Fellows at those facilities? Podiatrists are. Crazy, I know right?

good point,but theres no bubble to be burst..

I was just trying to think of any other equivalent surgical training that focused on ankle/foot training, and ortho came to mind.

I'm all for DPM's dominating that specialty, orthos have to pack in hips, knees, backs, and all other joints and bones during their 5 year residency, so there is no way they'd be able to learn what you guys do just by doing a 1 year fellowship.
as i said, everyone has a role to play, and foot+ankle care is best served by a DPM.

 

[karizma098]

I disagree.



DPMs do a 3 year surgical residency with various rotations such as gen surg, IM, EM, Vascular, Plastics, Anes, ID, Ortho, Ortho trauma, Ortho F&A, and of course Podiatric Surgery. During residency, DPMs learn a lot about the Foot and Ankle but they are also expected to perform as any resident would in any rotation. DPMs are expected to be able to medically manage their patients...just like any other MD/DO surgical specialty.

okay, so are you treating gunshot wounds like an ER doc? or are you reading CT scans like a radiologist? or treating primary care patients like family practice...or diagnosing heart failure and doing cardiac caths? or putting people to sleep during surgery?

I assume your answer is no to all these questions, so yes, our patient bases, training, and scope of practice is different, isn't it?

i don't see an anesthesiologist or an internal med doc claiming they are able to perform ankle surgery and treat the hundreds of foot problems you guys treat, so why do you feel our patient bases and training is the same?

 

[karizma098]

I disagree.



DPMs do a 3 year surgical residency with various rotations such as gen surg, IM, EM, Vascular, Plastics, Anes, ID, Ortho, Ortho trauma, Ortho F&A, and of course Podiatric Surgery. During residency, DPMs learn a lot about the Foot and Ankle but they are also expected to perform as any resident would in any rotation. DPMs are expected to be able to medically manage their patients...just like any other MD/DO surgical specialty.

i understand that, but i don't see how you could gain equal medical management in fields such as anes, ID, vasc, or EM all within 3 years where we spend 4-5 years specifically on 1 field. it's just not possible, much in the same way it's not possible for us to learn what you guys know just on a foot or ortho rotation during our residency.

 

[janV88]

okay, so are you treating gunshot wounds like an ER doc? or are you reading CT scans like a radiologist? or treating primary care patients like family practice...or diagnosing heart failure and doing cardiac caths? or putting people to sleep during surgery?

I assume your answer is no to all these questions, so yes, our patient bases, training, and scope of practice is different, isn't it?

i don't see an anesthesiologist or an internal med doc claiming they are able to perform ankle surgery and treat the hundreds of foot problems you guys treat, so why do you feel our patient bases and training is the same?

That's not what I'm claiming at all.

Think about it this way. Would a cardiologist be able to say yes to the questions you asked? No except for diagnosing heart failure. Everyone specializes and the specialty of DPMs is the foot and ankle.

 

[karizma098]

I disagree.



DPMs do a 3 year surgical residency with various rotations such as gen surg, IM, EM, Vascular, Plastics, Anes, ID, Ortho, Ortho trauma, Ortho F&A, and of course Podiatric Surgery. During residency, DPMs learn a lot about the Foot and Ankle but they are also expected to perform as any resident would in any rotation. DPMs are expected to be able to medically manage their patients...just like any other MD/DO surgical specialty.

That's not what I'm claiming at all.

Think about it this way. Would a cardiologist be able to say yes to the questions you asked? No except for diagnosing heart failure. Everyone specializes and the specialty of DPMs is the foot and ankle.

exactly! i think we agree here, thats what i mean by different training patient bases and training - i won't disagree that medical school training is comparable to podiatry school, but as i said earlier, no medical school grad is ready to be a physician, residency is when it comes together. we all have different roles , thats all i was getting at.

 

[JaggerPlate]

That's not what I'm claiming at all.

Think about it this way. Would a cardiologist be able to say yes to the questions you asked? No except for diagnosing heart failure. Everyone specializes and the specialty of DPMs is the foot and ankle.

The difference is that the Cardiologist goes to medical school, chooses IM, then chooses cards. He (theoretically) had the option to choose derm, ortho, anes, etc, because he completed medical school, but chose IM -> cards. Pods don't have this luxury. Seems like different educational model to me.

I don't understand why this debate continues. Like EVERYONE else has said ... there is nothing to be weird about. Pods have their place in health care, they are trained well, and they manage their patients well, but they simply train for this (pre-residency) in a different model. Additionally, I don't understand the urge to downplay the fact that you attend podiatry school and are training to become a podiatrist???

 

[janV88]

exactly! i think we agree here, thats what i mean by different training patient bases and training - i won't disagree that medical school training is comparable to podiatry school, but as i said earlier, no medical school grad is ready to be a physician, residency is when it comes together. we all have different roles , thats all i was getting at.

I'm not sure if we see eye to eye yet. The 3 year podiatric surgical residency is a requirement. Just like an internist isn't going to perform eye surgery, a DPM will not do bowel surgery. When I say the patient base, training, etc is comparable I mean that we are trained to be foot and ankle specialists just an internist is trained to be the medicine specialist.

 

[janV88]

The difference is that the Cardiologist goes to medical school, chooses IM, then chooses cards. He (theoretically) had the option to choose derm, ortho, anes, etc, because he completed medical school, but chose IM -> cards. Pods don't have this luxury. Seems like different educational model to me.

I don't understand why this debate continues. Like EVERYONE else has said ... there is nothing to be weird about. Pods have their place in health care, they are trained well, and they manage their patients well, but they simply train for this (pre-residency) in a different model. Additionally, I don't understand the urge to downplay the fact that you attend podiatry school and are training to become a podiatrist???

I agree. But that's not what karizma was saying. He/she said that med school didn't matter since the real training is in residency. Quite different than your argument.

 

[karizma098]

I'm not sure if we see eye to eye yet. The 3 year podiatric surgical residency is a requirement. Just like an internist isn't going to perform eye surgery, a DPM will not do bowel surgery. When I say the patient base, training, etc is comparable I mean that we are trained to be foot and ankle specialists just an internist is trained to be the medicine specialist.

an internist sees patients for anything ranging from diabetes, CHF, COPD, vaccination, whatever.

It is a vastly different patient base. when we are acutely ill, we go to a physician. wether or not they are referred to a more highly trained cardiologist, rheumatologist, pulmonologist, or surgeon, is an entirely different matter.

the patient base of a podiatrist is limited to that of foot and ankle disease - you do not treat any other type of illness or disease. a physician, whether they are an internist or a specialist, has the option and the medical license to practice medicine or surgery to the full extent of their training.

There is no need for further discussion here, one job is that of a physician, the other is that of a podiatrist. the patient base is different based on that stipulation alone. No, a cardiologist won't be treating gunshot wounds, but he was trained to during his residency - as was a psychiatrist or an orthopedic surgeon.

physicians have an option to practice medicine unlimited in any scope, or in multiple scopes. podiatrists focus on the foot. While a general surgeon will work on anything from a bowel surgery to a hernia, a podiatric surgeon will work on a foot. do you catch my drift? vastly different patient bases.

also - not every podiatrist is a surgeon, so compare apples to apples.

any graduate of an american medical school has the option to choose any field of medicine to practice, whether it's internal, surg, ortho, whatever. podiatrists have a single scope - the foot.

if this was considered a 'medical' field, and the knowledge base and patient base was equivalent to that of a physician - there would be no need for a DPM, and you would just go to medical school and become a foot specialist after your intern year of training, which isn't the case.
so until that is the case, physicians and podiatrists are distinctly different professions with distinctly different patient bases and training. arguing that does nothing but make it look like you're trying to compensate.

- ps - i meant medical school training was comparable to podiatry school in terms of length and course structure, the content of what we learn is vastly different. i'm in my 3rd year and can diagnose and treat 50% of what comes in through an internal med clinic, so no, i'm not a cardiologist or an internist yet, but in a year and a half i will be a physician licensed to diagnose, prescribe, and treat illness for any disease, head to toe. - that is the difference.

 

[janV88]

an internist sees patients for anything ranging from diabetes, CHF, COPD, vaccination, whatever.

I dont know why you brought this up but ok.

It is a vastly different patient base. when we are acutely ill, we go to a physician. wether or not they are referred to a more highly trained cardiologist, rheumatologist, pulmonologist, or surgeon, is an entirely different matter.

Yes, a Physician but which specialties? Do opthalmologists see acutely ill patients?

the patient base of a podiatrist is limited to that of foot and ankle disease - you do not treat any other type of illness or disease. a physician, whether they are an internist or a specialist, has the option and the medical license to practice medicine or surgery to the full extent of their training.

show me a Psychiatrist treating an eye infection and I will show you a lawsuit.

No, a cardiologist won't be treating gunshot wounds, but he was trained to during his residency - as was a psychiatrist or an orthopedic surgeon.

So are Podiatrists.

physicians have an option to practice medicine unlimited in any scope, or in multiple scopes. podiatrists focus on the foot. While a general surgeon will work on anything from a bowel surgery to a hernia, a podiatric surgeon will work on a foot. do you catch my drift? vastly different patient bases.

That option diminishes/ends once you match, unless of course you decide to re-enter the match and go to a different residency.

also - not every podiatrist is a surgeon, so compare apples to apples.

All Podiatrists are now required to be trained as surgeons.

any graduate of an american medical school has the option to choose any field of medicine to practice, whether it's internal, surg, ortho, whatever. podiatrists have a single scope - the foot.

I thought you said that residency training is where things matter? Once you enter a residency, your scope diminishes.

but in a year and a half i will be a physician licensed to diagnose, prescribe, and treat illness for any disease, head to toe. - that is the difference.

Let me know if any hospitals grant you any privileges or if that will hold up in court.

 

[willdaniel76]

What we need are more specialized medical schools and degrees! Imagine an OBGYN university or a Pediatric Medical school...



Degree acronyms so long they become your last name.

 

[thesituationPhD]

"Yes, a Physician but which specialties? Do opthalmologists see acutely ill patients?"

What he is saying is that because an opthalmologist attending medical school they technically would have the knowledge to assess them without putting their foot in their mouth HA HA...


So in a podiatric residency you are trained to treat acute illness? isn't a residency specialized treament which in that case should concern with lower extremity issues?

And as a pharm student I see often that some insurance companies will not cover certain medications due to scope of practice..So go ahead prescribe what ever you have that right but you're not fooling anyone...