Jun 24, 2009
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It seems DMU and Scholl are alone at the top. DMU, however, seems to be slightly more prestigious. AZPOD is occasionally linked in with these guys and also seems like a great idea, but more on this later.

I hear mixed reviews about Temple. However the number of times it gets mentioned in discussions about elite podiatry schools is significant. That said, it seems the DPM degree from Temple is something that was much more coveted in the past, relative to the present.

Then there's the rest......... with OCPM and NYCPM taken out of that group. I've seen this discussion pop up in threads regarding the 2015 initiative. These discussions usually end with both sides agreeing the existence of the independent pod schools hinders the objectives of the initiative... with the thinking there, being independent pod schools = independent curriculum = independent certification. What kind of impact do these discussions have on the prestige associated with these independent schools? My guess is they hurt it, a lot... Related to this idea, is the out-of-nowhere prestige associated with AZPOD - their pods are integrated; immediately it's considered a great school. In the future, my guess is that OCPM and NYCPM will be looked down upon, except in the eyes of those that feel the DPM and MD degrees should remain seperate.

All that said, I'm thinking about attending OCPM for their new/tremendous facilities. Yes, they're an independent school and I can see how that can hurt initiative 2015, but with regards to the pod education, I can only see how that can help. Yes, independent schools get all their money from tuition (and yes you can make the argument for substandard admissions), but being independent, all that money only has one place to go - it can only go right back into podiatry... which in the end is going to make me a better podiatrist... and hell, may even help us with initiative 2015.

What does everyone think about all this?
 

PodunkUDPM

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I think you forgot Barry


(and Western... even though they haven't had a class yet)
 
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It seems DMU and Scholl are alone at the top. DMU, however, seems to be slightly more prestigious. AZPOD is occasionally linked in with these guys and also seems like a great idea, but more on this later.

I hear mixed reviews about Temple. However the number of times it gets mentioned in discussions about elite podiatry schools is significant. That said, it seems the DPM degree from Temple is something that was much more coveted in the past, relative to the present.

Then there's the rest......... with OCPM and NYCPM taken out of that group. I've seen this discussion pop up in threads regarding the 2015 initiative. These discussions usually end with both sides agreeing the existence of the independent pod schools hinders the objectives of the initiative... with the thinking there, being independent pod schools = independent curriculum = independent certification. What kind of impact do these discussions have on the prestige associated with these independent schools? My guess is they hurt it, a lot... Related to this idea, is the out-of-nowhere prestige associated with AZPOD - their pods are integrated; immediately it's considered a great school. In the future, my guess is that OCPM and NYCPM will be looked down upon, except in the eyes of those that feel the DPM and MD degrees should remain seperate.

All that said, I'm thinking about attending OCPM for their new/tremendous facilities. Yes, they're an independent school and I can see how that can hurt initiative 2015, but with regards to the pod education, I can only see how that can help. Yes, independent schools get all their money from tuition (and yes you can make the argument for substandard admissions), but being independent, all that money only has one place to go - it can only go right back into podiatry... which in the end is going to make me a better podiatrist... and hell, may even help us with initiative 2015.

What does everyone think about all this?
I found this list through careful searching on the online. It shows the rankings of schools and their ivy league/LDS league counterparts

Temple = Harvard
DMU = Brown
Scholl = Cornell
Azpod = BYU
CSPM = Yale
Barry = Columbia
OCPM = Penn
NYCPM = Dartmouth

Western is too early to tell, but it's lined up to be a princeton!

What do you think?
 
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OP
U
Jun 24, 2009
50
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I don't think it's a waste of time to talk about podiatry schools with regards to prestige... there are some undergrad universities that are just better than others and they carry a certain prestige; the same goes for podiatry schools. the prestige discussion is particularly interesting and relevant in the pod school world given the integrated vs private dynamic i touched on.
 

air bud

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All that said, I'm thinking about attending OCPM for their new/tremendous facilities.
Have you been to DMU? Their facilities are high tech and new, including tablet pcs provided, all lecture notes recorded as mp3 files, large tvs at each cadaver and they are the only school that has already started with EMR. Also, a huge gym with a track and basketball court, basically free parking (100 bucks for all 4 years) and all of the "prestige" you could want. and the lowest cost of living of all the schools.

since you have surely started a flame war, I will say that DMU is not for everybody, just like OCPM is not for everybody. Be smart, work hard and keep your head out of your ass and you will be fine at any school.

Also, and I am speaking only for myself, but anytime somebody talks about "prestige" I automatically think they have self esteem/worth issues and I think considerably less of them.

Norm, how about you equate Western with Stansbury, the Harvard of the West.
 
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Feli

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Every school has its strengths and weaknesses, and top students are top students at any school, though. They are the ones who have good natural talent, generally read the most, show up early, work hard, use their own interest/motivation to independently make up for most deficiencies their school curriculum/clinics might have.

Most of what will shape your ultimate skill set is the 4th year rotations and residency that you choose (or end up with?). However, the foundation that basic sciences and 3rd year clinics lay might decide which doors are open/closed to you in terms of clerkship and residency options.

In general, going into 4th year and the beginning of real hospital and surgery experience/responsibility, there will be subtle differences based on curriculum and rotations that students have completed beforehand. AZ and DMU seem to be (on avg) the best prepped academically while Temple, Scholl and Barry seem to have the edge clinically due to more hands-on and diverse patient encounters 3rd year. Cali I really have no idea about; many of their students choose to stay out west. NY and Ohio students can be a bit behind the curve and sometimes ill prepped for clerkships relative to their peers from other pod programs, but those 2 schools also have the biggest class incoming/graduation sizes and therefore the full spectrum of great/good/fair/poor students, which means the good ones might get stereotypically lumped in with their not so stellar classmates. Good students/residents/attendings can come from any program if they apply themself and make it happen.

...Bottom line is that while there are small differences, you should be a lot more concerned about finding the right environment to work hard and apply yourself than you are about "prestige." AZ or DMU students who are great on paper or in radiology conference will still probably scramble if they were lazy, arrogant, or poor clinicians on clerkships. Likewise, clinically spectacular Temple or Barry grads might scramble if they didn't read on their own to interview well or pass boards. Wherever you go, it's ultimately up to you to make yourself well rounded and work to correct any areas of deficiency.
 

G0dFather

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Honestly its kills me and saddens me to say this, but when it comes to podiatry (contemporary) anyone can get in to any school... it doesn't take much... it is the backup plan in the eyes of the public ( i wish things were diff don't misunderstand me) .. so i don't think all this prestige talk is necessary... no school is a big deal.
 

PADPM

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In my opinion, ANY attempt at making some "link" or comparison or conversion from the podiatric medical schools to the Ivy League schools is simply ludicrous. What is the basis for the comparison and where is the rationale behind the decision to "match" each school?

Similar to choosing an undergraduate college/university, you have to visit the facility and see where you are comfortable and what fits YOUR needs, regardless of the opinions of others.

During my years as a residency director, having students/residents rotate through our offices and as an ABPS examiner, I have found graduates of Temple (the old PCPM) and Scholl to be the best prepared and those from NY to have a lot of clinical experience but the least academically impressive.
 

air bud

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In my opinion, ANY attempt at making some "link" or comparison or conversion from the podiatric medical schools to the Ivy League schools is simply ludicrous. What is the basis for the comparison and where is the rationale behind the decision to "match" each school?
This is a running joke from a previous thread, and is done tongue in cheek...I think.

PADPM, have you had any experience with DMU students, or some of the new DMU faculty?
 

mildoc2016

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Every school has its strengths and weaknesses, and top students are top students at any school, though. They are the ones who have good natural talent, generally read the most, show up early, work hard, use their own interest/motivation to independently make up for most deficiencies their school curriculum/clinics might have.

Most of what will shape your ultimate skill set is the 4th year rotations and residency that you choose (or end up with?). However, the foundation that basic sciences and 3rd year clinics lay might decide which doors are open/closed to you in terms of clerkship and residency options.

In general, going into 4th year and the beginning of real hospital and surgery experience/responsibility, there will be subtle differences based on curriculum and rotations that students have completed beforehand. AZ and DMU seem to be (on avg) the best prepped academically while Temple, Scholl and Barry seem to have the edge clinically due to more hands-on and diverse patient encounters 3rd year. Cali I really have no idea about; many of their students choose to stay out west. NY and Ohio students can be a bit behind the curve and sometimes ill prepped for clerkships relative to their peers from other pod programs, but those 2 schools also have the biggest class incoming/graduation sizes and therefore the full spectrum of great/good/fair/poor students, which means the good ones might get stereotypically lumped in with their not so stellar classmates. Good students/residents/attendings can come from any program if they apply themself and make it happen.

...Bottom line is that while there are small differences, you should be a lot more concerned about finding the right environment to work hard and apply yourself than you are about "prestige." AZ or DMU students who are great on paper or in radiology conference will still probably scramble if they were lazy, arrogant, or poor clinicians on clerkships. Likewise, clinically spectacular Temple or Barry grads might scramble if they didn't read on their own to interview well or pass boards. Wherever you go, it's ultimately up to you to make yourself well rounded and work to correct any areas of deficiency.
I know you are a resident now, have one more year of experience ahead of me, etc, just started and would have a more neutral ( ie you can take a step back and assess and compare students)out look, but i have personally rotated with students from other schools ( will not mention them)and have spoke with them about how much clinical experience and how comfortable they were as compared to my experience---- as an OCPM student yes i felt under prepared- in regard of what was expected of me- ( i know my weakness and what to do to improove)but felt MORE confident and competent clinically skills/ experience than those student from other schools ....... in a first externship out experience wise-- im not even discussing academics because each school has their focus area for certain classes and subjects---- for example an question asked of one student from a certain school would not easily answer a question that is commonly asked at and common knowledge at another school
 
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PMSIII

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Every school has its strengths and weaknesses, and top students are top students at any school, though. They are the ones who have good natural talent, generally read the most, show up early, work hard, use their own interest/motivation to independently make up for most deficiencies their school curriculum/clinics might have.

Most of what will shape your ultimate skill set is the 4th year rotations and residency that you choose (or end up with?). However, the foundation that basic sciences and 3rd year clinics lay might decide which doors are open/closed to you in terms of clerkship and residency options.

In general, going into 4th year and the beginning of real hospital and surgery experience/responsibility, there will be subtle differences based on curriculum and rotations that students have completed beforehand. AZ and DMU seem to be (on avg) the best prepped academically while Temple, Scholl and Barry seem to have the edge clinically due to more hands-on and diverse patient encounters 3rd year. Cali I really have no idea about; many of their students choose to stay out west. NY and Ohio students can be a bit behind the curve and sometimes ill prepped for clerkships relative to their peers from other pod programs, but those 2 schools also have the biggest class incoming/graduation sizes and therefore the full spectrum of great/good/fair/poor students, which means the good ones might get stereotypically lumped in with their not so stellar classmates. Good students/residents/attendings can come from any program if they apply themself and make it happen.

...Bottom line is that while there are small differences, you should be a lot more concerned about finding the right environment to work hard and apply yourself than you are about "prestige." AZ or DMU students who are great on paper or in radiology conference will still probably scramble if they were lazy, arrogant, or poor clinicians on clerkships. Likewise, clinically spectacular Temple or Barry grads might scramble if they didn't read on their own to interview well or pass boards. Wherever you go, it's ultimately up to you to make yourself well rounded and work to correct any areas of deficiency.
I think this is the bottom line as good students will do well regardless of where they go. However, I will say that finding the right environment is key - at every level possible. It is important to find the right school (environment to learn and apply yourself best), the right clerkships/externships (to further enhance your knowledge and find your 'niche'), the right residency, and finally the right fellowship/job opportunity.
 
OP
U
Jun 24, 2009
50
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This is a running joke from a previous thread, and is done tongue in cheek...I think.

PADPM, have you had any experience with DMU students, or some of the new DMU faculty?
I've found that in podiatry, oldtimers like PADPM (i think ur an oldtimer?) are weary of new pod schools.. and DMU is still too new. I don't even bother anymore asking pods what they think about the 9 schools... most have def never heard of AZPOD. the answer i used to get to that question tho was usually, "the school in pennsylvania is great, the one in miami is pretty good too, oh and i know some great pods that went to chicago, just don't go to the one in... im not gonna bother saying."

Podiatry still just has a little ways to go before it gets to that point where people are actually caring about the school they attend. It used to be that they were all just basically the same... even today, you here people say, "just pick whatever school ur most comfortable at..." Fortunately, podiatry is truely starting to dig in; i think it has made tremendous leaps in the recent past and i think its poised to claim the foot on a level comparable to what denstistry has done with the mouth. Someone tho has to lead the final charge... and I think DMU or Scholl, or OCPM (with its massive upgrades) is ready to do that; It'll acquire some prestige, up its admissions standards (a lot), get all the elite pre-pods, and push podiatry over the hump.
 

PADPM

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I have minimal experience with DMU students, and the experience I have has been fairly decent. In addition to my NYCPM comment, I also was never overly impressed by OCPM grads or Barry Grads.

As previously stated, in my personal experiences, the grads from Temple and Scholl were significantly more impressive academically (and in my opinion applying that knowledge clinically) than other students.

Unfortunately, I have not kept up with the actual faculty changes at DMU so I could not honestly comment on that issue or give a fair assessment on that matter.
 
Apr 24, 2009
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Someone tho has to lead the final charge... and I think DMU or Scholl, or OCPM (with its massive upgrades) is ready to do that; It'll acquire some prestige, up its admissions standards (a lot), get all the elite pre-pods, and push podiatry over the hump.
that is def being done. it seems there are a lot of visionaries for the field, one being dr. page at azpod. we are an evidence-based medical profession. so its not about proving our need, but rather marketing ourselves in a positive light. it was only 5 yrs ago that pharm/dental schools were a joke to get into. its only a matter of time until the applicant pool will recognize that pod is a good field.
 
May 23, 2009
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I've found that in podiatry, oldtimers like PADPM (i think ur an oldtimer?) are weary of new pod schools.. and DMU is still too new. I don't even bother anymore asking pods what they think about the 9 schools... most have def never heard of AZPOD. the answer i used to get to that question tho was usually, "the school in pennsylvania is great, the one in miami is pretty good too, oh and i know some great pods that went to chicago, just don't go to the one in... im not gonna bother saying."

Podiatry still just has a little ways to go before it gets to that point where people are actually caring about the school they attend. It used to be that they were all just basically the same... even today, you here people say, "just pick whatever school ur most comfortable at..." Fortunately, podiatry is truely starting to dig in; i think it has made tremendous leaps in the recent past and i think its poised to claim the foot on a level comparable to what denstistry has done with the mouth. Someone tho has to lead the final charge... and I think DMU or Scholl, or OCPM (with its massive upgrades) is ready to do that; It'll acquire some prestige, up its admissions standards (a lot), get all the elite pre-pods, and push podiatry over the hump.
But how do these upgrades push podiatry over the hump? Some MD/DO/dental schools have had awesome technology for a few years already... I was told the schools in iowa, arizona, and illinois have pretty high admission standards already. But I am not sure of the rest
 

NatCh

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Have you been to DMU? Their facilities are high tech and new, including tablet pcs provided, all lecture notes recorded as mp3 files, large tvs at each cadaver and they are the only school that has already started with EMR. Also, a huge gym with a track and basketball court, basically free parking (100 bucks for all 4 years) and all of the "prestige" you could want. and the lowest cost of living of all the schools.
Wow. When I went to DMU:

  • It wasn't even called DMU.
  • We took turns handwriting notes for Note Pool, then got ticked at each other for taking crummy notes.
  • In anatomy lab short people were to stand in front, tall people in back
  • The gym was a 10'x10' room with a bench press and a rack of dumbbells, and smelled like the 1950's.
  • Breakfast at Dahl's was $1.79 for 2 eggs, hash browns, toast.
  • We filled Wellman's Pub after each exam...walking distance!
  • We were told to buy our own microscopes for Histology...WTH?
 

smartman716

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Apr 10, 2008
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writing[/I]
[*]We were told to buy our own microscopes for Histology...WTH?
How did you cope? It must have been rough. I can only imagine the ordeals of a color blind kid. If you can't distinguish between red and pink, how can you identify an eosinophil?
 

NatCh

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How did you cope? It must have been rough. I can only imagine the ordeals of a color blind kid. If you can't distinguish between red and pink, how can you identify an eosinophil?
It was hard times, I tell ya. Hard times.
 
May 23, 2009
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How did you cope? It must have been rough. I can only imagine the ordeals of a color blind kid. If you can't distinguish between red and pink, how can you identify an eosinophil?
'

Eosinophils o gee golly! They still do use microscopes for histo at some of the pod programs there skippy. Not everything is on your cute macbook pro...

Think about those poor colorblind souls...tear
 

smartman716

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'

Eosinophils o gee golly! They still do use microscopes for histo at some of the pod programs there skippy. Not everything is on your cute macbook pro...
Think about those poor colorblind souls...tear
Texture usage instead of color-- always a better option.
 
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DaveApple

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As stated previously, each school has it's own set of positives and negatives. I'd recommend applying to each of them and making a final decision after an interview. You might just find that what you read on here was not the entire truth. A lot of the information is posted by individuals who may have never even been on campus at the school.

There's a lot of trending on this forum as to what people think about school A vs school B. You may find you fit in at one of that is consistently bashed on here. "To each his own" imho.
 

PADPM

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I've found that in podiatry, oldtimers like PADPM (i think ur an oldtimer?) are weary of new pod schools.. and DMU is still too new. I don't even bother anymore asking pods what they think about the 9 schools... most have def never heard of AZPOD. the answer i used to get to that question tho was usually, "the school in pennsylvania is great, the one in miami is pretty good too, oh and i know some great pods that went to chicago, just don't go to the one in... im not gonna bother saying."

Podiatry still just has a little ways to go before it gets to that point where people are actually caring about the school they attend. It used to be that they were all just basically the same... even today, you here people say, "just pick whatever school ur most comfortable at..." Fortunately, podiatry is truely starting to dig in; i think it has made tremendous leaps in the recent past and i think its poised to claim the foot on a level comparable to what denstistry has done with the mouth. Someone tho has to lead the final charge... and I think DMU or Scholl, or OCPM (with its massive upgrades) is ready to do that; It'll acquire some prestige, up its admissions standards (a lot), get all the elite pre-pods, and push podiatry over the hump.

"umass319",

In future posts, I'd strongly prefer if you'd have enough respect to refrain from referring to me as an "oldtimer". I'd also recommend that you refrain from making blanket statements such as "oldtimers such as PADPM are weary of new pod schools..."

Generalizations and statements like that are simply ignorant and are no different in their basis than racially based slurs. They are all based on ignorant stereotypes and generalizations. You know nothing about me, yet in one sentence you take the liberty to insult me by calling me an "oldtimer" and go on to tell everyone that people "like me" are weary of new pod schools.

What other brilliant observations have you made in your long career?

I've spent many years as an extremely competitive athlete and still compete. So any time you'd like to challenge this "oldtimer" to any physical or mental challenges, just let me know.

Until that time, you should put some thought into your writing or reconsider your profession. Because at this point I would never want to consider someone like you a "colleague".
 

darazon

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"umass319",

In future posts, I'd strongly prefer if you'd have enough respect to refrain from referring to me as an "oldtimer". I'd also recommend that you refrain from making blanket statements such as "oldtimers such as PADPM are weary of new pod schools..."

Generalizations and statements like that are simply ignorant and are no different in their basis than racially based slurs. They are all based on ignorant stereotypes and generalizations. You know nothing about me, yet in one sentence you take the liberty to insult me by calling me an "oldtimer" and go on to tell everyone that people "like me" are weary of new pod schools.

What other brilliant observations have you made in your long career?

I've spent many years as an extremely competitive athlete and still compete. So any time you'd like to challenge this "oldtimer" to any physical or mental challenges, just let me know.

Until that time, you should put some thought into your writing or reconsider your profession. Because at this point I would never want to consider someone like you a "colleague".
Ouch!
 

spo01

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I found this list through careful searching on the online. It shows the rankings of schools and their ivy league/LDS league counterparts

Temple = Harvard
DMU = Brown
Scholl = Cornell
Azpod = BYU
CSPM = Yale
Barry = Columbia
OCPM = Penn
NYCPM = Dartmouth

Western is too early to tell, but it's lined up to be a princeton!

What do you think?
Hahaha I love it.

In my opinion, ANY attempt at making some "link" or comparison or conversion from the podiatric medical schools to the Ivy League schools is simply ludicrous. What is the basis for the comparison and where is the rationale behind the decision to "match" each school?
Are you kidding me!?! If you can't pick up on the sarcasm and humor of that post then... I don't know... I'm speechless!
"umass319",

In future posts, I'd strongly prefer if you'd have enough respect to refrain from referring to me as an "oldtimer". I'd also recommend that you refrain from making blanket statements such as "oldtimers such as PADPM are weary of new pod schools..."

Generalizations and statements like that are simply ignorant and are no different in their basis than racially based slurs. They are all based on ignorant stereotypes and generalizations. You know nothing about me, yet in one sentence you take the liberty to insult me by calling me an "oldtimer" and go on to tell everyone that people "like me" are weary of new pod schools.

What other brilliant observations have you made in your long career?

I've spent many years as an extremely competitive athlete and still compete. So any time you'd like to challenge this "oldtimer" to any physical or mental challenges, just let me know.

Until that time, you should put some thought into your writing or reconsider your profession. Because at this point I would never want to consider someone like you a "colleague".
Please lighten up. Your opinion and experience are appreciated on the forum but this is an open forum but there's no need to get tangled up when someone says something you don't like. I mean seriously, challenging some random internet poster to a physical or mental challenge? Telling a random poster to consider changing careers because you don't like a post? Please....
 
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spo01

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Feli's post above is as accurate as you're gonna get, and the other post about finding a good environment is key as well. Is this an opinion? No not really. When I was deciding on a school I personally got on myspace, facebook, and SDN and wrote over 50 pod students, graduates, and practicing podiatrists and asked for their opinion on the field and school choices. Yes this is a bit OCD but I am serious about my field and wanted to know exactly what I was getting into and find the right school for *me*. Most people responded in lengthy and insightful emails and they basically said similar things. If anyone wants any more information about what people said to me or to even read some of the emails (I will take the persons name out) then feel free to PM me. Also keep in mind in the years to come these emails I recieved and statements made here will not be as accurate since schools change for the better or worse as the past few years have shown.

One thing though I must chime in on is that the DAT needs to be done away with for the remaining schools that still accept this for admission, my school included. I cringe when I think of this.
 

Poisson

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Feb 6, 2012
139
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I found this list through careful searching on the online. It shows the rankings of schools and their ivy league/LDS league counterparts

Temple = Harvard
DMU = Brown
Scholl = Cornell
Azpod = BYU
CSPM = Yale
Barry = Columbia
OCPM = Penn
NYCPM = Dartmouth

Western is too early to tell, but it's lined up to be a princeton!

What do you think?
As being a person that does not know much about this, my intital perspective is that Temple is number one as well. I was very impressed with a biomechanics podiatry scientist training opportunity, where a DPM student can pursue a Master (or Doctorate possible; don't remember) concurrently. Any school that offers great research opportunities is more on the Ivy realm of things. I think a lot of people claim DMU as a top one as well, sometimes maybe even number 1 given the osteopathic linkage. Some podiatric physicians really like to notate that they took osteopathic medical school courses for the first year or two. I don't really have any comment on DMU. I would like to think of Scholl as a top school, although I am sure people might have their own opinions. I'm just speaking of this because of countless profiles I have researched, and seeing a high amount of top podiatrists coming from Scholl.
 

flyhi

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Way to bring up a really old thread :rolleyes:. Many programs allow dual degrees and very good research opportunities.
 

MaxillofacialMN

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So... is midwestern princeton or....?