podiatry to PA

[Whiskeypunch]

I'm sorry you are mad that PA's are going to make more than you as a podiatrist, but it is really easy to make 100k+ as a PA.

I don't really care if you believe me. My post was more for the lurkers. I think the fact that all of the people who are claiming to actually be a in a position to know what PA's make are saying the same thing sort of says something.

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[deleted6669]

Are positions for NP's to work in the ER, surgery, cardiology, etc. really that few and far between?
Also, just out of curiosity, why would a hospital/group preferentially hire a PA over an ACNP for one of the above positions? Is it largely a political maneuver?

There are jobs for np's in these specialty settings but they are rare. pa's receive significantly more hospital based training than np's so are favored by most facilities for these positions.
np's have most of the peds, mental health, women's health and nicu jobs as their programs tend to be geared to these specialties although there are rare jobs for pa's in these fields as well.
the fnp is the most well rounded np program but it does not include any time on surgical rotations.

 

[HenryH]

There are jobs for np's in these specialty settings but they are rare. pa's receive significantly more hospital based training than np's so are favored by most facilities for these positions.
np's have most of the peds, mental health, women's health and nicu jobs as their programs tend to be geared to these specialties although there are rare jobs for pa's in these fields as well.
the fnp is the most well rounded np program but it does not include any time on surgical rotations.

Thanks for the info. In your opinion, is there any advantage to being an ACNP with RNFA (first assisting) certification? Or would it probably be irrelevant/a waste since most facilities would still be insistent on hiring a PA for almost any surgical position?

 

[deleted6669]

That combo might be good for surgical/critical care positions but every pa student will have similar experiences in addition to a more well rounded didactic and clinical experience. remember the avg pa student gets 2000+ hrs of clinical rotations(many around 3000 hrs) while a typical np program provides 500-800 hrs total in a single specialty. many pa's spend more time on a single specialty than this in addition to the rest of their clinicals. I spent 27 weeks(well over 1500 hrs) doing em, peds em, and trauma surgery for example but also still did ob, psych, IM. FP, etc

 

[HenryH]

That combo might be good for surgical/critical care positions but every pa student will have similar experiences in addition to a more well rounded didactic and clinical experience. remember the avg pa student gets 2000+ hrs of clinical rotations(many around 3000 hrs) while a typical np program provides 500-800 hrs total in a single specialty. many pa's spend more time on a single specialty than this in addition to the rest of their clinicals. I spent 27 weeks(well over 1500 hrs) doing em, peds em, and trauma surgery for example but also still did ob, psych, IM. FP, etc

Thanks. I guess I should probably stay away from NP programs, then, if I'm pretty sure that I don't want to do primary care work.

This is something kind of scary to think about -- if the majority of NP's are hired to work in family practice/pediatrics practices (which requires being an FNP), then where do ACNP graduates (who also hold RNFA certification) go to work? Are they essentially limited to ICU positions?

 

[deleted6669]

Thanks. I guess I should probably stay away from NP programs, then, if I'm pretty sure that I don't want to do primary care work.
This is something kind of scary to think about -- if the majority of NP's are hired to work in family practice/pediatrics practices (which requires being an FNP), then where do ACNP graduates (who also hold RNFA certification) go to work? Are they essentially limited to ICU positions?

Many work in adult medicine practices or hospitalist positions.

 

[MaxillofacialMN]

I'm sorry you are mad that PA's are going to make more than you as a podiatrist, but it is really easy to make 100k+ as a PA.

I don't really care if you believe me. My post was more for the lurkers. I think the fact that all of the people who are claiming to actually be a in a position to know what PA's make are saying the same thing sort of says something.

Dooood, what! Regardless of whether or not PAs make over 100k, I'm not "mad" about them making more than pods for two reasons: they don't, and tons of jobs make more than pods, so why would I be upset?

And you're right, my posts were for the lurkers too. I'm obviously not going to change to mind of the EM PA who probably hangs out with other EM PAs, all of whom are making bank in EM. But I think the lurkers will agree with me in an overall sense, because I have provided data and even the people "in the know" have said that "NO ONE WILL SHARE SALARY INFO!!" so how do any of y'all know what other people are making? Just something to think about. I know you didn't say that, but i feel deep down inside of me lurkers will agree with my factual and logic based reasoning, not thoughts from specific people who are in pidgeon-holed geographic and specific work-settings.

 

[zenman]

Thanks for clarifying. Not to hijack the thread, but would you strongly advise someone who doesn't want to work in primary care against attending an NP program? Are positions for NP's to work in the ER, surgery, cardiology, etc. really that few and far between?

Also, just out of curiosity, why would a hospital/group preferentially hire a PA over an ACNP for one of the above positions? Is it largely a political maneuver?

We have two NP's in ICU/CCU, one pulmonary and one cardiac. I consult there for psych only. There are two, maybe more, PA's who work for surgery/trauma throughout the house.

 

[TexasPhysician]

Both PA's and pods can easily pull 100k+ jobs. In some types of practice and geographical regions, it may take 60+ hours/week of work to reach 100k, but if you want that kind of cash, you can find it.

Averages always include people who prefer less work and more free time. Some jobs are chill and others are intense and push you to see more patients.

There is such a wide variety in healthcare jobs. The "average" really means nothing.

 

[physasst]

Thanks for clarifying. Not to hijack the thread, but would you strongly advise someone who doesn't want to work in primary care against attending an NP program? Are positions for NP's to work in the ER, surgery, cardiology, etc. really that few and far between?

Also, just out of curiosity, why would a hospital/group preferentially hire a PA over an ACNP for one of the above positions? Is it largely a political maneuver?

Depends on the practice, the region, and state laws....Here, we view them interchangeably.....I hire both. I am far, FAR more concerned with getting the right person and the right personality than I am concerned about their initials after their name. Others feel differently though. I know groups who won't even look at a PA's CV, or vice versa with groups not even considering an NP.

 

[facetguy]

Depends on the practice, the region, and state laws....Here, we view them interchangeably.....I hire both. I am far, FAR more concerned with getting the right person and the right personality than I am concerned about their initials after their name. Others feel differently though. I know groups who won't even look at a PA's CV, or vice versa with groups not even considering an NP.

This is something that confuses me a bit. PAs claim that NP education is inferior, yet there are NPs being hired and doing the same jobs as PAs in many, many situations. So is it that both models (PA/medical and NP/nursing) adequately prepare one for the job? Is there simply more than one way to skin a cat, i.e. educate a mid-level provider? How does one profession, either PA or NP, claim superiority?

 

[physasst]

This is something that confuses me a bit. PAs claim that NP education is inferior, yet there are NPs being hired and doing the same jobs as PAs in many, many situations. So is it that both models (PA/medical and NP/nursing) adequately prepare one for the job? Is there simply more than one way to skin a cat, i.e. educate a mid-level provider? How does one profession, either PA or NP, claim superiority?

My own anecdotal observation is that, at least in EM, new graduate PAs come in with a slight advantage over new graduate NPs, but that by 2 years or so, they are equivocal. In other specialties, it may be less noticeable. I know some incredibly bright NPs and some really stupid PAs, and vice versa. Same with MDs, I know some I would trust without a second thought, and I have a small list of MD/DOs that I wouldn't let treat anyone in my family for any condition.

It's the person, not the initials. I think that PA education is better overall, but I also know NPs who had an incredible background and are very bright, and do just as well as a PA right after graduation.....

IMHO, after 2-3 years, there is no noticeable difference.

 

[facetguy]

My own anecdotal observation is that, at least in EM, new graduate PAs come in with a slight advantage over new graduate NPs, but that by 2 years or so, they are equivocal. In other specialties, it may be less noticeable. I know some incredibly bright NPs and some really stupid PAs, and vice versa. Same with MDs, I know some I would trust without a second thought, and I have a small list of MD/DOs that I wouldn't let treat anyone in my family for any condition.

It's the person, not the initials. I think that PA education is better overall, but I also know NPs who had an incredible background and are very bright, and do just as well as a PA right after graduation.....

IMHO, after 2-3 years, there is no noticeable difference.

With this in mind, do you feel NPs have an advantage in some ways because of stronger lobby and by being less 'under the thumb' of physicians?

 

[Denatured]

There are jobs for np's in these specialty settings but they are rare. pa's receive significantly more hospital based training than np's so are favored by most facilities for these positions.
np's have most of the peds, mental health, women's health and nicu jobs as their programs tend to be geared to these specialties although there are rare jobs for pa's in these fields as well.
the fnp is the most well rounded np program but it does not include any time on surgical rotations.

In my area, lots of NPs in cardiology, FP, and pediatrics. Maybe 50:50 in IM. Outside of that, almost non-existent. PAs completely dominate surgery (every surgeon has a PA), EM, trauma, hematology, neuro, ect.

 

[zenman]

With this in mind, do you feel NPs have an advantage in some ways because of stronger lobby and by being less 'under the thumb' of physicians?

I work in an independent practice state for NPs. My psychiatrist medical director likes that because she doesn't have to cosign any of my documentation. Some of the other docs were pissed at her because they had to cosign PAs work.

 

[facetguy]

I work in an independent practice state for NPs. My psychiatrist medical director likes that because she doesn't have to cosign any of my documentation. Some of the other docs were pissed at her because they had to cosign PAs work.

Assuming, as was said earlier in this thread, the NPs and PAs in the practice were equally competent, wouldn't the docs hire exclusively NPs next time around knowing what they know now? In other words, if NPs and PAs end up being clinically equal (on average), and NPs require less MD supervision, what is the motivation of a MD to hire a PA over a NP? Do MDs see the need to cosign the PAs work as a beneficial thing or a hassle?

 

[Denatured]

Assuming, as was said earlier in this thread, the NPs and PAs in the practice were equally competent, wouldn't the docs hire exclusively NPs next time around knowing what they know now? In other words, if NPs and PAs end up being clinically equal (on average), and NPs require less MD supervision, what is the motivation of a MD to hire a PA over a NP? Do MDs see the need to cosign the PAs work as a beneficial thing or a hassle?

While a state may have independent practice for NPs, most institutions still have cosignature for NPs. There are also states that do not have co-signature (or even chart review) for PAs, such as NC and WA, however some hospitals still require it.

In the rare instance it would be required for a PA and not an NP, it would come down to what the doc would be comfortable with. Someone with more generalist education that they could train up (or a PA with a residency having tons of experience) or an NP with more specialty training.

 

[facetguy]

While a state may have independent practice for NPs, most institutions still have cosignature for NPs. There are also states that do not have co-signature (or even chart review) for PAs, such as NC and WA, however some hospitals still require it.

In the rare instance it would be required for a PA and not an NP, it would come down to what the doc would be comfortable with. Someone with more generalist education that they could train up (or a PA with a residency having tons of experience) or an NP with more specialty training.

What determines scope of practice for NPs in a state with independent NP practices? With PAs, their scope is determined by what the supervising MD can do (I think I"m right on that; correct if I'm wrong). But if an independent NP doesn't have a supervising MD, can they do whatever they want? There must be some mechanism of controlling the NPs activity, no?

 

[Denatured]

It's not like MDs where they have an unlimited scope of practice and only limited by hospital credentialing. It's even further complicated in inpatient vs. outpatient settings. You could write a 20 page paper on it. In an attempt to be brief: NPs are limited by their training, sometimes certification (typically age limits), and sometimes outright laws against certain procedures. For example, an ACNP can only see adults. An FNP can see all ages. Some states only allow FNP in outpatient settings, but I would say most do not. So an FNP is only typically limited by what someone has taken them aside and trained them to do, at least procedurally. If you are asking about an outpatient setting, really anything goes in independent states from my understanding. ::Sigh:: it's all very complicated and I simply cannot do it justice with my limited time here. Google Pearson report which will tell you a lot state-by-state what they can and can't do.

Also, VERY few open their own shop. About the same percentage of PAs and NPs own their own clinic, which is in the low single digits.

 

[facetguy]

It's not like MDs where they have an unlimited scope of practice and only limited by hospital credentialing. It's even further complicated in inpatient vs. outpatient settings. You could write a 20 page paper on it. In an attempt to be brief: NPs are limited by their training, sometimes certification (typically age limits), and sometimes outright laws against certain procedures. For example, an ACNP can only see adults. An FNP can see all ages. Some states only allow FNP in outpatient settings, but I would say most do not. So an FNP is only typically limited by what someone has taken them aside and trained them to do, at least procedurally. If you are asking about an outpatient setting, really anything goes in independent states from my understanding. ::Sigh:: it's all very complicated and I simply cannot do it justice with my limited time here. Google Pearson report which will tell you a lot state-by-state what they can and can't do.

Also, VERY few open their own shop. About the same percentage of PAs and NPs own their own clinic, which is in the low single digits.

The bolded is what I was getting at. Without supervision, it would seem that practice limits are very gray. With PAs, on the other hand, this really can't happen given the requisite MD supervision. Are there any published reports of higher rates of adverse events in independent NP practices? If it has been shown that indepedent NPs are no riskier than anyone else, then perhaps it's a moot point.

And I wonder why more independent NPs don't open their own practices?

 

[Makati2008]

The bolded is what I was getting at. Without supervision, it would seem that practice limits are very gray. With PAs, on the other hand, this really can't happen given the requisite MD supervision. Are there any published reports of higher rates of adverse events in independent NP practices? If it has been shown that indepedent NPs are no riskier than anyone else, then perhaps it's a moot point.

And I wonder why more independent NPs don't open their own practices?

I have wondered the same.. I know two that went back to med school and I just recently read about one in Oceanias program

 

[zenman]

The bolded is what I was getting at. Without supervision, it would seem that practice limits are very gray. With PAs, on the other hand, this really can't happen given the requisite MD supervision. Are there any published reports of higher rates of adverse events in independent NP practices? If it has been shown that indepedent NPs are no riskier than anyone else, then perhaps it's a moot point.

And I wonder why more independent NPs don't open their own practices?

I'm just waiting to get more financially stable after living overseas plus school loans.

 

[Denatured]

The bolded is what I was getting at. Without supervision, it would seem that practice limits are very gray. With PAs, on the other hand, this really can't happen given the requisite MD supervision. Are there any published reports of higher rates of adverse events in independent NP practices? If it has been shown that indepedent NPs are no riskier than anyone else, then perhaps it's a moot point.

And I wonder why more independent NPs don't open their own practices?

There are plenty of PAs that practice, for all intents and purposes, independently. Many are at off-site clinics or the solo provider of an ER. MDs have UNLIMITED scope of practice and can legally do anything. Story not to long ago of a GP doing cholecystectomies for cash in his home. The reason providers (typically) don't perform services outside their training is because they do not want to be sued. Same things with NPs. They are going, in any greater number than MDs and PAs, go outside their training. How much training is enough to be good at what you do is another debate and I rather not get into.

There are studies showing equivalent outcomes. I obviously have not read them all. Some have flaws, but obviously it would hard provide a true randomized study. There are certainly no studies showing worse outcomes.

I imagine it's hard to 1) raise the capital as an NP 2) There are limited states where one can open your own clinic 3) MDs are more and more moving towards being employees instead of business owners. It would be reasonable that NPs would want the same, either as part of the culture we are raised in, or because of the way healthcare has become (let someone else deal with the headaches).

 

[AnnoyedByFreud]

I think one reason why many NPs don't start private practices is that many aren't particularly entrepreneurial. People who are attracted to nursing aren't often business savvy, as far as I can tell. However, I do know several NPs who have their own practices in WA state. They are doing very, very well. These NPs are in the psych specialty, where it's easier to start a practice since the overhead is pretty minimal compared to other specialties.

 

[physasst]

I think one reason why many NPs don't start private practices is that many aren't particularly entrepreneurial. People who are attracted to nursing aren't often business savvy, as far as I can tell. However, I do know several NPs who have their own practices in WA state. They are doing very, very well. These NPs are in the psych specialty, where it's easier to start a practice since the overhead is pretty minimal compared to other specialties.

Actually, the whole independent practice thing is just kind of silly. Less than 2% of NPs nationally own their own practices...

Coincidentally, less than 2% of PAs own their own practices as well. And yes, PAs can and DO own their own medical practices. They just have to hire a Supervising Physician.

My best man at my wedding, and long time friend in the PA world owns his own family medicine practice in central florida. He pays a physician to come out once or twice a month and sign charts to meet state requirements.

 

[deleted6669]

Actually, the whole independent practice thing is just kind of silly. Less than 2% of NPs nationally own their own practices...

Coincidentally, less than 2% of PAs own their own practices as well. And yes, PAs can and DO own their own medical practices. They just have to hire a Supervising Physician.

My best man at my wedding, and long time friend in the PA world owns his own family medicine practice in central florida. He pays a physician to come out once or twice a month and sign charts to meet state requirements.

yup, although I have heard the figure is as high as 4-5% ownership for both pa's and np's.
I personally know 5 pa's who own their own practices and employ one or more physicians.

 

[HenryH]

yup, although I have heard the figure is as high as 4-5% ownership for both pa's and np's.
I personally know 5 pa's who own their own practices and employ one or more physicians.

Do most NP's/PA's own family practice clinics, or are there other types of medical practices that they could open?

 

[TexasPhysician]

Do most NP's/PA's own family practice clinics, or are there other types of medical practices that they could open?

Look at it liability wise. The training for NP/PA is based on a primary care model. Without a formal specialization process, a lawsuit for doing something you aren't trained to do could result in massive legal fees and losing your license. MD's are the same way. Cardiologists don't do derm surgeries.

NP's probably aren't far from setting up a couple specializations, but they likely will be additional years of training.

 

[Denatured]

Do most NP's/PA's own family practice clinics, or are there other types of medical practices that they could open?

I know of at least two PAs in specialties. One has a clinic as a headache specialist and another as pain management. Both had previous experience working in them before opening their own shop. I also know a few that have urgent cares. Some also become first assist for hire and start an LLC.

There are also NPs owning psych clinics I'm sure.

 

[facetguy]

I know of at least two PAs in specialties. One has a clinic as a headache specialist and another as pain management. Both had previous experience working in them before opening their own shop. I also know a few that have urgent cares. Some also become first assist for hire and start an LLC.

There are also NPs owning psych clinics I'm sure.

Can a PA do well as a 'first assist for hire'? Sounds a bit boring but also relatively headache-free.

 

[AnnoyedByFreud]

Actually, the whole independent practice thing is just kind of silly. Less than 2% of NPs nationally own their own practices...

Coincidentally, less than 2% of PAs own their own practices as well. And yes, PAs can and DO own their own medical practices. They just have to hire a Supervising Physician.

My best man at my wedding, and long time friend in the PA world owns his own family medicine practice in central florida. He pays a physician to come out once or twice a month and sign charts to meet state requirements.

Not sure why it's "silly"? I was just stating that I know people who have their own practices and are doing well. It seems to be working out really well for them. Yes, I'm aware that most NPs/PAs don't have their own practices. Like I said, I think the overhead makes it really hard to do it, psych is a bit of an exception.

 

[deleted6669]

Can a PA do well as a 'first assist for hire'? Sounds a bit boring but also relatively headache-free.

The guys I know who do it make bank.

 

[facetguy]

The guys I know who do it make bank.

How does that work in terms of supervising MD? Wouldn't each surgeon they work with therefore have to be a supervising MD, meaning the PA has a bunch of supervising MDs? What's the paperwork for something like that consist of?

 

[physasst]

Not sure why it's "silly"? I was just stating that I know people who have their own practices and are doing well. It seems to be working out really well for them. Yes, I'm aware that most NPs/PAs don't have their own practices. Like I said, I think the overhead makes it really hard to do it, psych is a bit of an exception.

It's silly to use it as any sort of qualifier for NPs...IE; "OHHHHH, they can practice independently" It's a non sequitur when you look at the fact the so very few actually choose to do so.

 

[Makati2008]

How does that work in terms of supervising MD? Wouldn't each surgeon they work with therefore have to be a supervising MD, meaning the PA has a bunch of supervising MDs? What's the paperwork for something like that consist of?

Some pas work strictly with his or her surgeon and they work very well together. The ones I see working for multiple surgeons are the ones I see get burnt out or they really love surgery and pre/post op stuff. It varies state to state but most of the states i work in you had a primary sp and then you had additional sp listed with nothing more than their signature name license number(so not much paper work).

 

[deleted6669]

Some pas work strictly with his or her surgeon and they work very well together. The ones I see working for multiple surgeons are the ones I see get burnt out or they really love surgery and pre/post op stuff. It varies state to state but most of the states i work in you had a primary sp and then you had additional sp listed with nothing more than their signature name license number(so not much paper work).

YUP. the way this typically works is the pa will contract with multiple groups and have 1 sp of record with each group and all other docs in the group are alternate sp's.

 

[HenryH]

YUP. the way this typically works is the pa will contract with multiple groups and have 1 sp of record with each group and all other docs in the group are alternate sp's.

Is it hard to work-out this kind of arrangement as an NP? I was actually looking into an NP program that offers an Acute Care w/ First Assist Certification track, and I know that in my area, cardiology groups are hiring both NP's and PA's and an orthopedic group that is currently looking to hire a PA has expressed a willingness to consider an ACNP w/ FA certification. In order to contract with multiple groups, would it be necessary to have an extensive number of years of experience? Also, do you know what a typical day-to-day work schedule might look like for a PA/NP who contracts with multiple groups?

Thanks...

 

[Denatured]

Can a PA do well as a 'first assist for hire'? Sounds a bit boring but also relatively headache-free.

I believe that it really depends on the business/accounting savvy of the individual. An LLC, in my opinion, is a headache. Billing for your own reimbursement is a hassle, then you have to do your taxes just right, pay your own insurance and benefits. Though done properly a PA can make oodles of money.

 

[deleted6669]

would it be necessary to have an extensive number of years of experience? Thanks...

This is not a job for a new grad. the folks I know who do this have 10+ yrs of surgical experience and several of them have completed pa surgical residencies(see www.appap.org if interested in these).

 

[deleted6669]

do you know what a typical day-to-day work schedule might look like for a PA/NP who contracts with multiple groups?

they would be in the o.r. all day most days....

 

[NYCGuy86]

don't know how common this is, but I did see a job listing for a cardiothoracic surgery PA in Virginia with starting salary of $140K.

 

[deleted6669]

I know a few experienced ct surgery pa's making 180-225k for lots of hrs and lots of call.

 

[HenryH]

I know a few experienced ct surgery pa's making 180-225k for lots of hrs and lots of call.

Is that for 60-80 hrs/week?

If so, then yeah, that's a lot of money -- but unless you get multiple months of vacation or plan to retire early (really early), what's the real benefit to making that much money besides peace of mind if you're never really able to enjoy it? That's just the way I look at it, though...

 

[deleted6669]

yup, lots of hrs. lots of call. I wouldn't want to do it. I have one buddy who is an em pa who makes 200k/yr but works 24 days/mo...

 

[HenryH]

yup, lots of hrs. lots of call. I wouldn't want to do it. I have one buddy who is an em pa who makes 200k/yr but works 24 days/mo...

No thanks! Just out of curiosity, what is a more typical number of shifts to work per month? And is it true that most PA/NP ER jobs start at around $120k? Just a number I've heard thrown around...

 

[deleted6669]

12-16 SHIFTS/MO is more common. 120-130k for an experienced em pa is about right. new grads 90-110k or so depending on background( prior medics, rt's, and er nurses tend to score the better jobs). many of my students get jobs starting at 95k+. I don't know any em pa's with > 5 yrs of experience on the west coast or upper east coast making less than 110k, most make 120-130k with some making up to 160k with just a bit of overtime, maybe an extra shift or 2/mo.
many em pa jobs pay base salary + production. As is true with em docs, you will find many em pa salaries significantly higher than surverys would indicate.

 

[HenryH]

12-16 SHIFTS/MO is more common. 120-130k for an experienced em pa is about right. new grads 90-110k or so depending on background( prior medics, rt's, and er nurses tend to score the better jobs). many of my students get jobs starting at 95k+. I don't know any em pa's with > 5 yrs of experience on the west coast or upper east coast making less than 110k, most make 120-130k with some making up to 160k with just a bit of overtime, maybe an extra shift or 2/mo.
many em pa jobs pay base salary + production. As is true with em docs, you will find many em pa salaries significantly higher than surverys would indicate.

Thanks for the info. You mentioned the fact that many EM PA's (as well as many PA's/NP's in other specialties as well) earn a production bonus. Is this an arrangement whereby, for example, a PA/NP would earn, say, 10% of however much they bill and collect for in excess of $400k?

Also, would the arrangement be similar for a surgical PA? I'm a bit confused about how it would be constructed for their employment scenario because I have heard people say, for example, that a PA working as a first assist can bill for up 85% of the reimbursement fee for something like a vein harvest, and that they can also bill for 14.5% of the surgeon's total fee for that particular surgery. Even if that is the case, does the PA actually keep the money that is reimbursed (the 85% and 14.5%) or is that money reimbursed instead to the surgeon, who would then pay the PA a production bonus based on whatever bonus system/scale their group has configured?

 

[deleted6669]

I can answer for em, not sure how they do it for surgery. we get a % of the rvu's for each pt we see and the physician group gets a similar %. this works out to an hourly bonus based on # seen and acuity of each pt.
For the pa's in my group the avg production bonus is $22/hr on top of our base pay. we also get a differential for working night shifts. the fastest guy in our group often gets $30-35/hr in bonuses.

 

[HenryH]

I can answer for em, not sure how they do it for surgery. we get a % of the rvu's for each pt we see and the physician group gets a similar %. this works out to an hourly bonus based on # seen and acuity of each pt.
For the pa's in my group the avg production bonus is $22/hr on top of our base pay. we also get a differential for working night shifts. the fastest guy in our group often gets $30-35/hr in bonuses.

Thanks. An extra $40-60k per year in production bonuses? Hey, I guess you can't complain about that.

I would *think* that surgical PA's work under a similar arrangement, because if they actually got to keep the 85% and 14.5% they're eligible to bill/collect on, then that means there are surgical PA's out there making anywhere from $3k - $10k (or more?) per day in addition to their base salary. Maybe so, but it sounds too good to be true.

 

[deleted6669]

they probably get a per case fee, but I doubt it's as much as you were thinking. I have heard first assist fees for pa's in the range of 15% of the total provider payment(which is very different than the total bill).