Post-9/11 GI Bill -- Med. School Capped @ cost/credit or state's most expensive.

[Mister T]

I've been reading about the Post-9/11 GI Bill and I can't tell if they will pay for the total tuition of medical school or the most expensive state undergrad school tuition rate.

Let's say for example that you are a New York State resident.


According to this: http://www.gibill.va.gov/GI_Bill_Info/CH33/Tuition_and_fees.htm

You will get $1010/credit for New York State.

Now the most expensive state undergrad school is probaby about $10,000 in tuition for the year.

So will it be $10,000 that they will give you maximum? Or will they give you the number of credits of school in the year * 1010?

Also, since the benefits are for 36 months (if you get 100% benefits after 36 months of active duty), will this cover all of medical school?

Typically an academic year is about 8-9 months during medical school but I don't know much about the 2nd 3rd or 4th year.

Also, the average course load for a year of medical school according to an adcom at one medical school said they used 41 credits for the school year.

So would the VA really spend 41 credits * $1010/credit = $41410 in tuition?

If that's true, I could easily go to a private medical school in NY like NYU or even Texas for free which is ridiculous. It sounds like it's too good to be true.

Finally, during the 3rd and 4th years, do you take any "credits" or no? I ask this because you are doing rotations during your third year and I do not think that you get "credit" and I don't know much about 4th year either. Because I understand that in California for instance, there is no credits/no undergrad tuition and thus $0 is offered for that but they do get money for fees or whatever.

Thanks!
T

Edit: from:
http://www.gibill.va.gov/GI_Bill_Info/benefits.htm

"tuition & fees directly to the school not to exceed the maximum in-state tuition & fees at a public Institution of Higher Learning. See chart listing maximum in-state tuition rates"

What the hell does "maximum instate tuition and fees" mean? GAH!

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[Segovia]

I've been reading about the Post-9/11 GI Bill and I can't tell if they will pay for the total tuition of medical school or the most expensive state undergrad school tuition rate.

Let's say for example that you are a New York State resident.


According to this: http://www.gibill.va.gov/GI_Bill_Info/CH33/Tuition_and_fees.htm

You will get $1010/credit for New York State.

Now the most expensive state undergrad school is probaby about $10,000 in tuition for the year.

So will it be $10,000 that they will give you maximum? Or will they give you the number of credits of school in the year * 1010?

Also, since the benefits are for 36 months (if you get 100% benefits after 36 months of active duty), will this cover all of medical school?

Typically an academic year is about 8-9 months during medical school but I don't know much about the 2nd 3rd or 4th year.

Also, the average course load for a year of medical school according to an adcom at one medical school said they used 41 credits for the school year.

So would the VA really spend 41 credits * $1010/credit = $41410 in tuition?

If that's true, I could easily go to a private medical school in NY like NYU or even Texas for free which is ridiculous. It sounds like it's too good to be true.

Finally, during the 3rd and 4th years, do you take any "credits" or no? I ask this because you are doing rotations during your third year and I do not think that you get "credit" and I don't know much about 4th year either. Because I understand that in California for instance, there is no credits/no undergrad tuition and thus $0 is offered for that but they do get money for fees or whatever.

Thanks!
T

Edit: from:
http://www.gibill.va.gov/GI_Bill_Info/benefits.htm

"tuition & fees directly to the school not to exceed the maximum in-state tuition & fees at a public Institution of Higher Learning. See chart listing maximum in-state tuition rates"

What the hell does "maximum instate tuition and fees" mean? GAH!

This may help some regarding the in-state tuition and fees.

http://www.gibill.va.gov/gi_bill_info/ch33/tuition_and_fees.htm


Also an "example" for a typical undergrad, but still dodges your question:

http://www.gibill.va.gov/GI_Bill_Info/CH33/Documents/Tuition_and_Fees_Payments.pdf


Now, that probably doesn't answer most of your questions, and I am also still confused. I am going to a UC med school in the Fall on the GI Bill and I seriously doubt the post 9/11 will cover more than a small fraction of the tuition and fees. I may be wrong, and I hope somebody on this forum can prove me wrong. I have had a pretty awful experience with the VA and know the process of applying is likely going to be painful.

*Supposedly the semantic California fee vs tuition issue with this bill has been fixed.*

The credit issue during the 3rd and 4th year is an interesting question too. I dunno.

I think the 1st and 2nd year credit hours can vary by institution, but I am also interested to see how many units med school will be in the eyes of the VA. 25? 30? Buehler?

I think we can all agree that we should have enlisted in Texas

 

[Mister T]

This may help some regarding the in-state tuition and fees.

http://www.gibill.va.gov/gi_bill_info/ch33/tuition_and_fees.htm


Also an "example" for a typical undergrad, but still dodges your question:

http://www.gibill.va.gov/GI_Bill_Info/CH33/Documents/Tuition_and_Fees_Payments.pdf


Now, that probably doesn't answer most of your questions, and I am also still confused. I am going to a UC med school in the Fall on the GI Bill and I seriously doubt the post 9/11 will cover more than a small fraction of the tuition and fees. I may be wrong, and I hope somebody on this forum can prove me wrong. I have had a pretty awful experience with the VA and know the process of applying is likely going to be painful.

*Supposedly the semantic California fee vs tuition issue with this bill has been fixed.*

The credit issue during the 3rd and 4th year is an interesting question too. I dunno.

I think the 1st and 2nd year credit hours can vary by institution, but I am also interested to see how many units med school will be in the eyes of the VA. 25? 30? Buehler?

I think we can all agree that we should have enlisted in Texas

When I inputted the information into this website (have you been to this website?):

http://www.newgibill.org/calculator

It seems to imply that there is no total tuition cap but rather just by the credits because the total amount with say 40 credits (approximate number of credits in given medical school year) * $1010/credit = $40,400 for the year.

Try it. If you don't believe me, type in zip code: 10016 (NYU Med), type in 20 credits/term, type in $45,353/year for tuition and leave the rest the same as it was (source: http://admissions.med.nyu.edu/financial-aid/)







As you can see from the bottom picture, the benefits don't seem to deny you $66159/year if you go to NYU Medical which because it's a New York school gets the $1010/credit benefit.

Furthermore, you also get $2751 per month in housing in Manhattan which is just ridiculous.

I calculated that if that is truly the case ,and with a Marine Officer's (O-1 for 2 years and O-2 for 2 years) cumulative NET pay of ~ $138,000 (that's taking into account tax savings too with deploying as well), + 4 years of medical school cost $264636 ($66159 * 4) = $138,000 + $264636 = $ 402636

So in many ways doing a 4 year contract as an Officer is like making $402636/4 = $100659 in NET INCOME if you take into account the benefits of going to medical school for free.

And you know what a $100,659 NET income in Gross dollars is (at least in New York)? --> $162, 781 (calculator is from here: https://secure.gtmassociates.com/calculator.aspx)

So in many respects these benefits are pretty darn good with the post9/11 gi BILL (assuming you go to an expensive private med. school in a state that offers a high $$/credit number AND the VA doesn't have a total tuition cap).

 

[NAVYLABTECH08]

no, it won't even come close to full medical school tuition. The GI Bill is based on the average in state tuition amongst "undergraduate" non-private schools. Medical school tuition is considerably much higher compared to undergrad costs. This leaves you to basically need loans. Personally, I have yet to get paid. The payments are really slow, ie you get fall payment halfway during spring semester. Don't rely on the GI Bill. Get loans or do HPSP/HSCP. Your numbers seem way high to me. What does a marine officer's rank have to do with anything. To my knowledge, everyone not in the service, is capped to a E-5 BAH limit. Remember, it is not the tuition of your individual school, but the average undergrade instate tuition for your STATE.

 

[Mister T]

no, it won't even come close to full medical school tuition. The GI Bill is based on the average in state tuition amongst "undergraduate" non-private schools. Medical school tuition is considerably much higher compared to undergrad costs. This leaves you to basically need loans. Personally, I have yet to get paid. The payments are really slow, ie you get fall payment halfway during spring semester. Don't rely on the GI Bill. Get loans or do HPSP/HSCP. Your numbers seem way high to me. What does a marine officer's rank have to do with anything. To my knowledge, everyone not in the service, is capped to a E-5 BAH limit. Remember, it is not the tuition of your individual school, but the average undergrade instate tuition for your STATE.

So when you say "average undergrad instate tuition" for your state, what do you mean by that? This is where the ambiguity lies...

All the website, documents, and people from the VA have told me is that they will pay you $$$/credit hour.

So if you're a New York resident, and say medical school is 40 credits during the school year, then 40credits *$1010/credit = $40,400.

So you're saying that they will not deliver that tuition amount? If so, then what do they cap it at? The only information they've given is that the "average undergrad instate tuition is based on a maximum of $1010/credit, but nothing about any tuition caps and the calculator that I showed seems to support that notion, but I really don't know, the VA isn't very clear or on top of things either.

 

[AFPILOT]

So when you say "average undergrad instate tuition" for your state, what do you mean by that? This is where the ambiguity lies...

All the website, documents, and people from the VA have told me is that they will pay you $$$/credit hour.

So if you're a New York resident, and say medical school is 40 credits during the school year, then 40credits *$1010/credit = $40,400.

So you're saying that they will not deliver that tuition amount? If so, then what do they cap it at? The only information they've given is that the "average undergrad instate tuition is based on a maximum of $1010/credit, but nothing about any tuition caps and the calculator that I showed seems to support that notion, but I really don't know, the VA isn't very clear or on top of things either.

I have been looking into this heavily because I am planning on doing this very thing later in life. (Or USUHS) In any case I don't know exactly what they do with the money per credit hour. I was under the assumption that they will pay you the max in-state number per credit hour wherever you go. However, I would bet a lot of money that there is a cap on the number of credit hours etc, because that would be a lot of money if they paid for everyone's med school.

I have spoken with my education office on base about this stuff and they don't seem to know hardly anything because the post 9/11 GI Bill is so new and they haven't dealt with it enough yet to know all of the ins and outs. However, the BAH IS paid at the E-5 rate. Also, something that everyone here is missing is the yellow ribbon program. If you look at the GI Bill website there is a link. (Sorry too lazy to post it.) It lists by state and shows which schools have elected to participate in the yellow ribbon program. I have spent a lot of time on there and there are a lot of specific schools that even list their medical school and how much they will give per semester to the GI Bill student. For example: I think Texas A&M has pledged $10,000 per semester per GI Bill student to a maximum of 10 students per year. That is $10,000 extra in your pocket per semester. I don't know if it has to go to tuition or if it is like a scholarship and you can live off of it too, but either way it is a pretty sweet deal when you notice that a Texas resident only pays less that $15,000 per year for medical school there. AND, I'M A TEXAS RESIDENT! ...Sorry, just had to throw that out there.

 

[Mister T]

I was under the assumption that they will pay you the max in-state number per credit hour wherever you go. However, I would bet a lot of money that there is a cap on the number of credit hours etc, because that would be a lot of money if they paid for everyone's med school.

That's the million dollar question! Imagine going through medical school for free, and getting a stipend, that's a 100x better than your fellow classmates who will be taking out loans and building interest.

For example: I think Texas A&M has pledged $10,000 per semester per GI Bill student to a maximum of 10 students per year. That is $10,000 extra in your pocket per semester. I don't know if it has to go to tuition or if it is like a scholarship and you can live off of it too, but either way it is a pretty sweet deal when you notice that a Texas resident only pays less that $15,000 per year for medical school there. AND, I'M A TEXAS RESIDENT! ...Sorry, just had to throw that out there.

Does the Yellow Ribbon program use up your post-9/11 GI Benefits?


And in your opinion, AFPilot, what state do you think it makes more sense to be a resident. Texas or New York assuming you can choose where you want to live?

I mean New York has a pretty damn good rate too, but nothing tops Texas, and going to medical school in New York City would be a pretty amazing experience for instance.

 

[MissPT]

Hay The calculator seems to be very much accurate.. I am currently recieving benefits for two pre-req classes that I am taking. I put all the info in the calc. and my exact payment figures came back. Good tool to know about, I had no idea this was even avail. Just Fyi

 

[Mister T]

Hay The calculator seems to be very much accurate.. I am currently recieving benefits for two pre-req classes that I am taking. I put all the info in the calc. and my exact payment figures came back. Good tool to know about, I had no idea this was even avail. Just Fyi

You're using your post-9/11 GI Bill benefits for just two pre-req classes? That sounds like you're losing out on a lot of benefits!

 

[AFPILOT]

That's the million dollar question! Imagine going through medical school for free, and getting a stipend, that's a 100x better than your fellow classmates who will be taking out loans and building interest.



Does the Yellow Ribbon program use up your post-9/11 GI Benefits?


And in your opinion, AFPilot, what state do you think it makes more sense to be a resident. Texas or New York assuming you can choose where you want to live?

I mean New York has a pretty damn good rate too, but nothing tops Texas, and going to medical school in New York City would be a pretty amazing experience for instance.

Again, I don't know for sure, so don't assume that I am right, but I think you have to be using the GI Bill to get the yellow ribbon money from that school. Who knows though? They might just through that money at you if you are recently separated from the military but I doubt it. The purpose of the yellow ribbon program is to get the participating school to make up the difference in what the GI Bill doesn't cover. In the case that I stated with Texas A&M it seems like there is no way that the GI Bill would not fully cover the tuition and fees if you're a Texas resident so where that $10,000 per semester would go and what you could use it for I have no idea, but I am trying to find out.

The GI Bill can only be used for 3 years, but I have been told that you can spread out over 4 years if you do the traditional 2 semester route. The 3 year coverage is supposedly a year round deal so it is really meant to cover 4 years with the summers off like most schools do it.

As far as NY vs. TX for me it's a no-brainer. I might be wrong but I am pretty sure that there are more med schools in Texas to choose from, which means a higher chance of acceptance since you have more that you can apply to in one state if that makes sense. The cost of living is much cheaper in Texas and it's more military friendly. NY is a cool place but there might also be more distractions to deal with. It's a personal choice but the main things that I would look at are 1. Where am I a resident, 2. How much GI Bill money can I get and does it cover the tuition and fees at my choice of med school, and 3. Does the school participate in the yellow ribbon program. I've looked through the lists of which schools participate in the yellow ribbon program and it is shocking which schools don't participate. I know that I am biased but I will be narrowing down my search to schools that are participating because to me it says something if a school isn't participating in the program, and being former military I want to go to a school that is military friendly. Texas hands down has more military friendly schools. In the end for me the whole goal is to become a doctor with as few loans as possible since I will be going to med school older. If you're younger then it might not be as big of a deal since you'll have more time as a doc to pay them off. Why go somewhere that will get you in debt if you can actually make money going somewhere else and walk away with no loans? NO BRAINER!

 

[Mister T]

Again, I don't know for sure, so don't assume that I am right, but I think you have to be using the GI Bill to get the yellow ribbon money from that school. Who knows though? They might just through that money at you if you are recently separated from the military but I doubt it. The purpose of the yellow ribbon program is to get the participating school to make up the difference in what the GI Bill doesn't cover. In the case that I stated with Texas A&M it seems like there is no way that the GI Bill would not fully cover the tuition and fees if you're a Texas resident so where that $10,000 per semester would go and what you could use it for I have no idea, but I am trying to find out.

The GI Bill can only be used for 3 years, but I have been told that you can spread out over 4 years if you do the traditional 2 semester route. The 3 year coverage is supposedly a year round deal so it is really meant to cover 4 years with the summers off like most schools do it.

As far as NY vs. TX for me it's a no-brainer. I might be wrong but I am pretty sure that there are more med schools in Texas to choose from, which means a higher chance of acceptance since you have more that you can apply to in one state if that makes sense. The cost of living is much cheaper in Texas and it's more military friendly. NY is a cool place but there might also be more distractions to deal with. It's a personal choice but the main things that I would look at are 1. Where am I a resident, 2. How much GI Bill money can I get and does it cover the tuition and fees at my choice of med school, and 3. Does the school participate in the yellow ribbon program. I've looked through the lists of which schools participate in the yellow ribbon program and it is shocking which schools don't participate. I know that I am biased but I will be narrowing down my search to schools that are participating because to me it says something if a school isn't participating in the program, and being former military I want to go to a school that is military friendly. Texas hands down has more military friendly schools. In the end for me the whole goal is to become a doctor with as few loans as possible since I will be going to med school older. If you're younger then it might not be as big of a deal since you'll have more time as a doc to pay them off. Why go somewhere that will get you in debt if you can actually make money going somewhere else and walk away with no loans? NO BRAINER!

I hear ya, and you know if you are in your late twenties (like 26 and 27), your total pay for say a 4 year contract with the 9/11 GI Bills is like the equivalent of making anywhere from $100,000-160,000 in gross pay for four years which is not that bad and is like being paid an internist/family practitioner for 4 years, so in many cases it can close the financial gap between your younger peers who are taking out all loans, AND if you have been investing your money wisely (ROTH IRA), you could have had all those years during your time in service (let's say 4), andmedical school, and residency (say 4 years) which is 4+4+4 = 12 years of ROTH IRA benefits which by the age of 65 closes the gap even more. Remember, most of your younger peers will be dealing iwth growing interest payments and will not even begin to be able to invest in the ROTH IRA until they start residency (and they start this age the age of 26-30 but can't really add that much further because they will be making more than 100k or so)

So let's hope that this works out because it gives older students a chance to catch up so to speak and be on the same leven (and ENJOY medical school, have SPENDING money, and no worries of debt!)

But that'll only happen once we start figuring out how it panned out for others. Keep your fingers crossed.

 

[Segovia]

OK....Mr. T's post this morning prompted me to do some legwork on this topic, as I was curious how this was going to pan out for myself and other concerned vets. I was going HPSP, but was medically DQ'd (funny, I am still on IRR and was fully deployable while enlisted, but getting rejected is turning into a blessing in disguise).

I was able to get in contact with the liaison (aka VA certifying official at the UC I am attending in the Fall), and she was able to run some numbers for me. She actually talked to someone that is receiving Chapter 33 right there on the spot (I love civilians ).

I also talked with the VA directly this morning via the 1-800 number and basically got nowhere on determining the amount of units, etc. medical school is rated at. They don't make the call; the school does.


So here are the numbers my school ran me:

Fall Quarter Fees: $7,467.50
VA Pays: $6,163
~ of credit hours/units: 17.5

Now, this is quite good. Remember this is a quarter system, and this does not take into account the BAH (~$1700 where I will be), or the $1000/year book stipend. I am assuming that the other quarters will be similar, but I am not claiming certainty on this issue. I was also told that UC Berkeley is considered the most expensive undergrad institution and that is one of the reasons that the money isn't too bad...that and lawmakers have ostensibly fixed the semantic loophole for Cali Residents.

What sucks for me is that I only have 12 months of the old GI Bill, and once that is exhausted I will only get 12 months of the Post 9/11. So my first year will suck financially, but the second year is going to be great. For my 3rd and 4th years, the onus is totally on me. All things considered, I would say if you have this GI Bill and have not used any of it (as I have), I am cautiously optimistic that you will be getting a hefty chunk of your debt knocked out. Something for former service-members considering HPSP to ponder.

Further research still needs to be done, and I am sure I did not get all of the information relayed (although these are the no s&!* numbers), so if anybody has any more input it would be great.

Thanks for starting this thread.

 

[Mister T]

I also talked with the VA directly this morning via the 1-800 number and basically got nowhere on determining the amount of units, etc. medical school is rated at. They don't make the call; the school does.

Yeah the schools I called said the same thing too. That the medical school determines the number of credits per year/semester/quarter. They have to, according to the registrar of one med. school I talked to because for financial aid/federal government loans they need to QUANTIFY the number of "credits" for a medical academic year and determine things like part time/half time/full time status. I talked to them and said it's weird to have "credit" for 3rd year rotatinos for instance and she agreed, but said that it is done for financial aid purposes. In general, the different schools I talked to said that they are around 40-41 credits per year (or 20 credits/term WHICH IS A LOT COMPARED TO UNDERGRAD!). In your case, you said that it's 17.5 credits per quarter so 17.5*4 = 70? That's a **** load of credits/year... unless the scheduling is different or something.

Did they say anything about tuition caps?

So here are the numbers my school ran me:

Fall Quarter Fees: $7,467.50
VA Pays: $6,163
~ of credit hours/units: 17.5

Now, this is quite good. Remember this is a quarter system, and this does not take into account the BAH (~$1700 where I will be), or the $1000/year book stipend. I am assuming that the other quarters will be similar, but I am not claiming certainty on this issue. I was also told that UC Berkeley is considered the most expensive undergrad institution and that is one of the reasons that the money isn't too bad...that and lawmakers have ostensibly fixed the semantic loophole for Cali Residents.

Don't forget you have "tutorial assistance" up to $100 per month for a limit of $1200 AND/OR (i'm not sure if you can do both), up to $2000 for one PROFESSIONAL LICENSING EXAM. Which means that you can take the USMLE Part 1, Part 2, or Part 3 for free. Part 1 is $700, Part 2 is $1200, and Part 3 is $570, so you're probably going to want to use it towards Part 2.

When I spoke to the lady at the VA, I asked her if the "tutorial assistance" could be used for a Kaplan class which has a "tutor" of some sort, and couldn't give me a clear answer on that. Do you have any thought on this? It would be an excellent resource for prepping for the USMLE you know?

What sucks for me is that I only have 12 months of the old GI Bill, and once that is exhausted I will only get 12 months of the Post 9/11. So my first year will suck financially, but the second year is going to be great. For my 3rd and 4th years, the onus is totally on me. All things considered, I would say if you have this GI Bill and have not used any of it (as I have), I am cautiously optimistic that you will be getting a hefty chunk of your debt knocked out. Something for former service-members considering HPSP to ponder.

Why can't you use the Post 9/11 GI Bill for year 1 and year 2, I thought you have the option of using that unless you did service before post-9/11 or something. You might be eligible for the post-9/11 GI Bill benefits, but you know your situation better than I do but you can read this FAQ that nails a lot of things: http://www.newgibill.org/get_answers

Further research still needs to be done, and I am sure I did not get all of the information relayed (although these are the no s&!* numbers), so if anybody has any more input it would be great.

Thanks for starting this thread.

and thank you for this info! I hope that these post 9/11 GI Benefits don't get a tuition cap of some sort in the future if Congress amends the bill. I don't think it should be a problem if you are "grandfathered" into the bill and a lot of veterans would be pretty pissed off no?

Other things...

Fall Quarter Fees: $7,467.50
VA Pays: $6,163
~ of credit hours/units: 17.5

When you say Fall quarter fees, I assume that you are going to a California medical school and I wasn't clear on that, but I think that's what you meant.

Because California is unique that they don't charge for tuition but rather fees (education is "free" HA HA), California used to have $0/credit but now they changed it to like $335.75 Maximum Charge per Credit Hour and $2,165.25 in fees per term (source: http://www.gibill.va.gov/gi_bill_info/ch33/tuition_and_fees.htm)

But how are you getting $6,163/quarter? 17.5 units/credits *$335.75 = $5875.63, and if they will cover up to $2,165 per "term" for fees (whatever a term is, in your case would it be a quarter?), wouldn't your total tuition + fees benefits per term be: $5875.63 + $2165.25 = $8040.88?


My understanding overall from what you're saying is that there is no tuition cap, though there is a fee cap. So would you agree that if you take, let's exaggerate 100 credits per quarter they would really give you 100*335.75 = $33,500 in tuition benefits though the fee cap of $7,467.50?

If this is true, then it doesn't make sense to take HPSP.


Why? Correct me if I am wrong (I am just conjecturing here), but because post 9/11 GI Bill benefits will expire after 15 years after the end of active duty, if you chose to go into the HPSP program (which effectively gives you "free" medical school, a bonus of $20,000, and a monthly stipend for room and board), you would have to lose 4 years in medical school + 4-8 in residency + another 4-8 in repayment time so we're talking 4 + 4 + 4 = 12 years to 4+8+8 = 20 years of time locked in through HPSP until you can use your post-9/11 GI benefits. So in the case where you have a short residency of 4 years, you would have to use those benefits on year 11 or 12 otherwise you'll lose them!, and in the case where you had a long residency or a fellowship, you'd lose them completely!).

In any case, do let me know if you know if there is an effective tuition cap or not, I'm still unsure on that , but if there isn't, this deal basically makes going to medical school for free possible which can really close the financial gap with your younger peers am I right?

 

[AFPILOT]

Yeah the schools I called said the same thing too. That the medical school determines the number of credits per year/semester/quarter. They have to, according to the registrar of one med. school I talked to because for financial aid/federal government loans they need to QUANTIFY the number of "credits" for a medical academic year and determine things like part time/half time/full time status. I talked to them and said it's weird to have "credit" for 3rd year rotatinos for instance and she agreed, but said that it is done for financial aid purposes. In general, the different schools I talked to said that they are around 40-41 credits per year (or 20 credits/term WHICH IS A LOT COMPARED TO UNDERGRAD!). In your case, you said that it's 17.5 credits per quarter so 17.5*4 = 70? That's a **** load of credits/year... unless the scheduling is different or something.

Did they say anything about tuition caps?




Don't forget you have "tutorial assistance" up to $100 per month for a limit of $1200 AND/OR (i'm not sure if you can do both), up to $2000 for one PROFESSIONAL LICENSING EXAM. Which means that you can take the USMLE Part 1, Part 2, or Part 3 for free. Part 1 is $700, Part 2 is $1200, and Part 3 is $570, so you're probably going to want to use it towards Part 2.

When I spoke to the lady at the VA, I asked her if the "tutorial assistance" could be used for a Kaplan class which has a "tutor" of some sort, and couldn't give me a clear answer on that. Do you have any thought on this? It would be an excellent resource for prepping for the USMLE you know?



Why can't you use the Post 9/11 GI Bill for year 1 and year 2, I thought you have the option of using that unless you did service before post-9/11 or something. You might be eligible for the post-9/11 GI Bill benefits, but you know your situation better than I do but you can read this FAQ that nails a lot of things: http://www.newgibill.org/get_answers






and thank you for this info! I hope that these post 9/11 GI Benefits don't get a tuition cap of some sort in the future if Congress amends the bill. I don't think it should be a problem if you are "grandfathered" into the bill and a lot of veterans would be pretty pissed off no?

Other things...



When you say Fall quarter fees, I assume that you are going to a California medical school and I wasn't clear on that, but I think that's what you meant.

Because California is unique that they don't charge for tuition but rather fees (education is "free" HA HA), California used to have $0/credit but now they changed it to like $335.75 Maximum Charge per Credit Hour and $2,165.25 in fees per term (source: http://www.gibill.va.gov/gi_bill_info/ch33/tuition_and_fees.htm)

But how are you getting $6,163/quarter? 17.5 units/credits *$335.75 = $5875.63, and if they will cover up to $2,165 per "term" for fees (whatever a term is, in your case would it be a quarter?), wouldn't your total tuition + fees benefits per term be: $5875.63 + $2165.25 = $8040.88?


My understanding overall from what you're saying is that there is no tuition cap, though there is a fee cap. So would you agree that if you take, let's exaggerate 100 credits per quarter they would really give you 100*335.75 = $33,500 in tuition benefits though the fee cap of $7,467.50?

If this is true, then it doesn't make sense to take HPSP.


Why? Correct me if I am wrong (I am just conjecturing here), but because post 9/11 GI Bill benefits will expire after 15 years after the end of active duty, if you chose to go into the HPSP program (which effectively gives you "free" medical school, a bonus of $20,000, and a monthly stipend for room and board), you would have to lose 4 years in medical school + 4-8 in residency + another 4-8 in repayment time so we're talking 4 + 4 + 4 = 12 years to 4+8+8 = 20 years of time locked in through HPSP until you can use your post-9/11 GI benefits. So in the case where you have a short residency of 4 years, you would have to use those benefits on year 11 or 12 otherwise you'll lose them!, and in the case where you had a long residency or a fellowship, you'd lose them completely!).

In any case, do let me know if you know if there is an effective tuition cap or not, I'm still unsure on that , but if there isn't, this deal basically makes going to medical school for free possible which can really close the financial gap with your younger peers am I right?

This all looks good, but in my experience everything with the government/military seems to have a catch. I would get everything in writing before you "assume" that all of your medical school is paid for. These things tend to have loop holes that will screw you over if you don't watch out for them. Just saying...

 

[Segovia]

Yeah the schools I called said the same thing too. That the medical school determines the number of credits per year/semester/quarter. They have to, according to the registrar of one med. school I talked to because for financial aid/federal government loans they need to QUANTIFY the number of "credits" for a medical academic year and determine things like part time/half time/full time status. I talked to them and said it's weird to have "credit" for 3rd year rotatinos for instance and she agreed, but said that it is done for financial aid purposes. In general, the different schools I talked to said that they are around 40-41 credits per year (or 20 credits/term WHICH IS A LOT COMPARED TO UNDERGRAD!). In your case, you said that it's 17.5 credits per quarter so 17.5*4 = 70? That's a **** load of credits/year... unless the scheduling is different or something.




Don't forget you have "tutorial assistance" up to $100 per month for a limit of $1200 AND/OR (i'm not sure if you can do both), up to $2000 for one PROFESSIONAL LICENSING EXAM. Which means that you can take the USMLE Part 1, Part 2, or Part 3 for free. Part 1 is $700, Part 2 is $1200, and Part 3 is $570, so you're probably going to want to use it towards Part 2.

When I spoke to the lady at the VA, I asked her if the "tutorial assistance" could be used for a Kaplan class which has a "tutor" of some sort, and couldn't give me a clear answer on that. Do you have any thought on this? It would be an excellent resource for prepping for the USMLE you know?



Why can't you use the Post 9/11 GI Bill for year 1 and year 2, I thought you have the option of using that unless you did service before post-9/11 or something. You might be eligible for the post-9/11 GI Bill benefits, but you know your situation better than I do but you can read this FAQ that nails a lot of things: http://www.newgibill.org/get_answers

1 - She didn't mention anything about tuition caps. She just gave it to me simply: This is what we charge, and this is what the VA pays.

2- Thanks for the heads up on the tutorial assistance. I didn't know about that. I am also unsure about how a Kaplan class would be viewed. My gut tells me that this would probably not be covered, just because Kaplan isn't under the umbrella of "institution of higher learning". In other words, if the school itself had tutoring, then that would be paid for. This is just a guess though. I know, for instance, that culinary classes are not covered unless you take them at an institution of higher learning.

3 - The reason I can only use Post 9/11 for year 2 is just unique to my case. I have used something like 24 months of the GI Bill (chapter 30) already. The VA has told me that I can either use the rest of the 12 months of the old GI Bill, and when that is exhausted I am eligible for 12 months of the post 9-11. My other option is to go ahead and activate my Post 9/11, but then I would only get 12 months period, and my old GI Bill would essentially be wasted. So it is really advantageous for me just to use the old GI Bill up first , and since I also did the "top-up" program, the old GI Bill gives me like $1400/month. Not bad, but this is peanuts compared to the Post-9/11. Even in my case (which is not the best case since I have already depleted a bunch of my benefits), I am confident that I will be able to reduce my overall debt from school by 35-50K.

4 - Yeah, the math I gave totally doesn't work out, but those are the numbers I was quoted. Perhaps they round up to 18 units? 18*335 =6030? I am still unsure how the $2165 comes into play. I was just happy that such a large portion was covered; I thought for sure it would only cover like 20% of the total cost, though it looks like the Post 9/11 is great deal no matter how you slice it. I thought professional students/grad students would be screwed, but they seemed to have somehow erred on the side of common sense.

5 - It is hard to argue for HPSP even in the case of non-priors, and the Post 9/11 makes it even harder to argue the case for a prior enlisted like myself. If you have the full 48 months of the Post 9/11 and can use it all on medical school, then I feel it would just be stupid to take HPSP. If anything, you would be better off with HCSP. That way you could pocket a bunch of money and put a huge dent in the tuition costs, and get time towards retirement. With HPSP, your tuition is paid directly, so you wouldn't get the full benefit of the Post 9/11...though you would still get BAH. Still, that would be a waste in my view.

6 - I bet you can get even more unbiased info if you call the VA and get phone numbers for VA certifying officials at other schools. Maybe just pick a school at random, like a private school outside of CA. Actually, I may try to do this Monday morning because there is an out of state private school that I was impressed with on interview day, and if I could get an idea of how much the VA covers it would help me in my decision. If I get in contact with them, I will post their numbers next week. I need to write down my questions/your questions so I can be better prepared the next time I talk to someone on the phone. I really think this is the only way to get the hard, fast, and real numbers.

 

[Mister T]

1 - She didn't mention anything about tuition caps. She just gave it to me simply: This is what we charge, and this is what the VA pays.

2- Thanks for the heads up on the tutorial assistance. I didn't know about that. I am also unsure about how a Kaplan class would be viewed. My gut tells me that this would probably not be covered, just because Kaplan isn't under the umbrella of "institution of higher learning". In other words, if the school itself had tutoring, then that would be paid for. This is just a guess though. I know, for instance, that culinary classes are not covered unless you take them at an institution of higher learning.

3 - The reason I can only use Post 9/11 for year 2 is just unique to my case. I have used something like 24 months of the GI Bill (chapter 30) already. The VA has told me that I can either use the rest of the 12 months of the old GI Bill, and when that is exhausted I am eligible for 12 months of the post 9-11. My other option is to go ahead and activate my Post 9/11, but then I would only get 12 months period, and my old GI Bill would essentially be wasted. So it is really advantageous for me just to use the old GI Bill up first , and since I also did the "top-up" program, the old GI Bill gives me like $1400/month. Not bad, but this is peanuts compared to the Post-9/11. Even in my case (which is not the best case since I have already depleted a bunch of my benefits), I am confident that I will be able to reduce my overall debt from school by 35-50K.

4 - Yeah, the math I gave totally doesn't work out, but those are the numbers I was quoted. Perhaps they round up to 18 units? 18*335 =6030? I am still unsure how the $2165 comes into play. I was just happy that such a large portion was covered; I thought for sure it would only cover like 20% of the total cost, though it looks like the Post 9/11 is great deal no matter how you slice it. I thought professional students/grad students would be screwed, but they seemed to have somehow erred on the side of common sense.

5 - It is hard to argue for HPSP even in the case of non-priors, and the Post 9/11 makes it even harder to argue the case for a prior enlisted like myself. If you have the full 48 months of the Post 9/11 and can use it all on medical school, then I feel it would just be stupid to take HPSP. If anything, you would be better off with HCSP. That way you could pocket a bunch of money and put a huge dent in the tuition costs, and get time towards retirement. With HPSP, your tuition is paid directly, so you wouldn't get the full benefit of the Post 9/11...though you would still get BAH. Still, that would be a waste in my view.

6 - I bet you can get even more unbiased info if you call the VA and get phone numbers for VA certifying officials at other schools. Maybe just pick a school at random, like a private school outside of CA. Actually, I may try to do this Monday morning because there is an out of state private school that I was impressed with on interview day, and if I could get an idea of how much the VA covers it would help me in my decision. If I get in contact with them, I will post their numbers next week. I need to write down my questions/your questions so I can be better prepared the next time I talk to someone on the phone. I really think this is the only way to get the hard, fast, and real numbers.

Awesome! Do let us know what happens, and I will be doing my homework too! It sucks that there's so little info seeing as it just started in August 2009 and hopefully we'll get some solid answers but so far things are looking pretty good with this bill. It's about damn time that they give veterans solid benefits. The Montgomery GI Bill had lost its "value" because the cost of education is so expensive these days, and it was never meant for education that would soar well past the rate of inflation. In fact, about 44% of students in college after WWII were veterans thanks to this bill.

Btw, with your post-9/11 GI Bill benefits alone for your 2nd year of medical school, how much will be paid for versus the total amount (total cost of attendance) for the year from what you are calculating? Like 90% or 50% etc?

And if you get a chance, could you see what the VA person on the phone says about the Kaplan USMLE "tutoring" and whether or not you can get that tutoring "assistance" alongside with your "professional exam" fee or you can only choose one (if you can only choose one than that makes things easier I believe as you would probably use it for Step 2 as that's the most expensive one). I wasn't sure and neither was the lady on this. If your conjecture is correct that it has to be "tutoring" through the school, then I would see if the medical school could work out a deal as it's in it's power to consent to it. It is tutoring in a sense afterall

 

[Pianoman32]

This all looks good, but in my experience everything with the government/military seems to have a catch. I would get everything in writing before you "assume" that all of your medical school is paid for. These things tend to have loop holes that will screw you over if you don't watch out for them. Just saying...

I couldn't agree more. I expected the best from the military going into medical school, and have now accepted the worse. I was in for a year and a half and am eligible for the post-911 gi bill. I was under the assumption that I would get the post-911 bill at a rate of 60% for the full 36 months. However, it turns out that I now only get 60% of the bill for 17 months.

Secondly, my father has been in the military for 30 years and recently tried to transfer his GI bill to me. When hearing about this I was ecstatic. This would have covered all of my medical school tuition, seeing that I already had a partial scholarship. More importantly, I would have received about 2000k a month for BAH. The catch.....a dependent can use a transferred gi-bill up until their 27th birthday; however, the individual must have the bill transferred to them prior to their 23rd birthday. I turned 23 exactly 1 month before the bill was signed by congress. My father did everything from talking to superiors to going the senator route and was basically told nothing could be done unless we wanted to go the legislative route. But by the time the dems and repubs finished playing battle of the d-bags, I would have likely been 27 anyways.

Anyway, I expected about $300,000 in help towards my education. I will likely get about $20,000. I expected to be able to financially help my father out when he finally did retire. However, I will be lucky to pay off my loans by the time he dies.

Always expect the worst from any military deal/situation. There is a reason it is the "military." If it didn't suck, if there wasn't the hurry up and wait bs, if there weren't the loop-holes in every contract meant to f-over every private, well it wouldn't be the military, it would just be a civilian job.

 

[notdeadyet]

Someone already referenced the GI Bill link that shows the cap for each state. All state's have caps. Some very generous, some not so generous.

 

[IlDestriero]

Always expect the worst from any military deal/situation. There is a reason it is the "military." If it didn't suck, if there wasn't the hurry up and wait bs, if there weren't the loop-holes in every contract meant to f-over every private, well it wouldn't be the military, it would just be a civilian job.

I'm sorry to hear about your situation, but there have to be some limits. That's the way it is in the civilian sector as well. Some people will always end up just outside and lose out.
I was happy to be able to use the old gi bill to augment my income during my fellowship. The new benefits are far and away better than before. Depending on how the final numbers work out, I may use it to go to Wharton for an Executive MBA in a couple years. Don't bash the military for being outside of the reasonable limits and expecting more benefits than you are entitled to receive. The new bill really reopens the door to education for those that are interested, and earned it.
I'm proud to be a veteran and I'm thrilled to see what this post 911 bill does to open the door to higher education for so many young and less fortunate men and women that served with honor.

 

[Segovia]

I couldn't agree more. I expected the best from the military going into medical school, and have now accepted the worse. I was in for a year and a half and am eligible for the post-911 gi bill. I was under the assumption that I would get the post-911 bill at a rate of 60% for the full 36 months. However, it turns out that I now only get 60% of the bill for 17 months.

Secondly, my father has been in the military for 30 years and recently tried to transfer his GI bill to me. When hearing about this I was ecstatic. This would have covered all of my medical school tuition, seeing that I already had a partial scholarship. More importantly, I would have received about 2000k a month for BAH. The catch.....a dependent can use a transferred gi-bill up until their 27th birthday; however, the individual must have the bill transferred to them prior to their 23rd birthday. I turned 23 exactly 1 month before the bill was signed by congress. My father did everything from talking to superiors to going the senator route and was basically told nothing could be done unless we wanted to go the legislative route. But by the time the dems and repubs finished playing battle of the d-bags, I would have likely been 27 anyways.

Anyway, I expected about $300,000 in help towards my education. I will likely get about $20,000. I expected to be able to financially help my father out when he finally did retire. However, I will be lucky to pay off my loans by the time he dies.

Always expect the worst from any military deal/situation. There is a reason it is the "military." If it didn't suck, if there wasn't the hurry up and wait bs, if there weren't the loop-holes in every contract meant to f-over every private, well it wouldn't be the military, it would just be a civilian job.

You were in for 18 months and expected over a quarter million dollars in educational benefits. No wonder you're jaded.

 

[SomethingLatin]

I have done a lot of research into how the Post 9/11 GI bill works when someone attends a professional school, medical, law, business, etc. The program is designed to take the highest state tuition for each state and use that to determine what the VA will pay per credit hour. The VA reimburses how ever many credit hours a school reports for a program. This is in the bill itself passed by congress.

I have discussed on the phone a few times what I would receive if I attend various medical schools. I specifically asked what information they had on every single medical school in a major metropolitan city. The numbers they had for each school were all very similar. The first two years of medical school were well over the traditional 30 units/year. The last two years, being clinical were even higher in credit hours. We discussed only drawing the benefits for 9 months a year for 4 years. I you work year around in the clinical years, so imagine so planning out/vacation to maximize reimbursement is in order. The state I was inquiring about had a high $$$ rate and they confirmed on several occasions my tuition would be practically covered save a few grand. This was various private schools.

This is not some loophole that everyone is exploiting, at least not yet. Almost everyone I talked to at the VA, including higher ups, specifically told me, "No one ever asks about these kinds of programs(meaning law/medicine)because their benefits are all gone by the time they get this far." The reality is many people will not postpone free undergrad + BAH for saving money later on. How many people do you think are leaving the military to attend law or medical school? Probably not a lot, at least not a significant percentage of the population who will utilize the GI bill.

Many people are also using some poor logic in this thread. Just because they "only" pay the highest instate public undergrad tuition, please look at the rate for each state. Texas is $1400, New York is $1000+, Pennsylvania is $800+, meaning you can go to inexpensive state school for undergrad like California, and then apply to medical schools in the above states and enjoy great tuition reduction even if the VA only pays for 30 credit hours per year.

 

[notdeadyet]

You were in for 18 months and expected over a quarter million dollars in educational benefits. No wonder you're jaded.

Especially since the post-9/11 GI Bill wasn't in effect when he signed up and the transferring of GI Bill to benefits has only been around for, what, six months?

 

[Slevin]

I couldn't agree more. I expected the best from the military going into medical school, and have now accepted the worse. I was in for a year and a half and am eligible for the post-911 gi bill. I was under the assumption that I would get the post-911 bill at a rate of 60% for the full 36 months. However, it turns out that I now only get 60% of the bill for 17 months.

Secondly, my father has been in the military for 30 years and recently tried to transfer his GI bill to me. When hearing about this I was ecstatic. This would have covered all of my medical school tuition, seeing that I already had a partial scholarship. More importantly, I would have received about 2000k a month for BAH. The catch.....a dependent can use a transferred gi-bill up until their 27th birthday; however, the individual must have the bill transferred to them prior to their 23rd birthday. I turned 23 exactly 1 month before the bill was signed by congress. My father did everything from talking to superiors to going the senator route and was basically told nothing could be done unless we wanted to go the legislative route. But by the time the dems and repubs finished playing battle of the d-bags, I would have likely been 27 anyways.

Anyway, I expected about $300,000 in help towards my education. I will likely get about $20,000. I expected to be able to financially help my father out when he finally did retire. However, I will be lucky to pay off my loans by the time he dies.

Always expect the worst from any military deal/situation. There is a reason it is the "military." If it didn't suck, if there wasn't the hurry up and wait bs, if there weren't the loop-holes in every contract meant to f-over every private, well it wouldn't be the military, it would just be a civilian job.

I did my four years active and I got my full range of benefits. I take no pity on you for not being able to use loopholes to get a fully funded education without putting in the time. If you put in the time and earned it then fine but you didn't. I held up my end of the deal with the military and they held up their end, stop whining you sound like a little kid who wants something for nothing.

 

[dru2002]

i did my four years active and i got my full range of benefits. I take no pity on you for not being able to use loopholes to get a fully funded education without putting in the time. If you put in the time and earned it then fine but you didn't. I held up my end of the deal with the military and they held up their end, stop whining you sound like a little kid who wants something for nothing.

+1

 

[Mister T]

Especially since the post-9/11 GI Bill wasn't in effect when he signed up and the transferring of GI Bill to benefits has only been around for, what, six months?

Just to be clear the issue in the thread was about "tuition cap for a total amount" versus "tuition cap/credit"

It's a huge thing and according to some of the recent posters, there is no "tuition cap for the total amount"

so theoretically if you went to a school that had a million credits in the school year, you would get 1,000,000 credits x tuition rate/credit hour.

 

[Pianoman32]

You were in for 18 months and expected over a quarter million dollars in educational benefits. No wonder you're jaded.

No, I expected to get 60% of my g-bill for 36 months because this is fair. Individuals who are in for over 36 months get their gi bill at a rate of 100% for 36months. Instead, I only get a gi bill for 60% for 17 months? How does my service for 17 months deserve any less of a value than that of someone who served 36 or more months? The only fair thing is me getting my gi bill at 60% value for 36 months or me getting it at a rate of 100% for 17 months. You know nothing about my service or reason for discharge so please don't down grade it.

As far as the quarter of the million dollars you speak of, my dad is the one who wanted to transfer his GI-bill to me. I would have used mine during residency and his during medical school. As someone who has served our country for 30 years, I think he deserves the ability to transfer his gi-bill to his son. I would only wish the same upon you. I think the military helping out lifelong service members dependents in their educational endeavors is a small fee to pay for what they have sacrificed as well; I would gladly take the years lost with my father over the money if I had the choice.

 

[Pianoman32]

I did my four years active and I got my full range of benefits. I take no pity on you for not being able to use loopholes to get a fully funded education without putting in the time. If you put in the time and earned it then fine but you didn't. I held up my end of the deal with the military and they held up their end, stop whining you sound like a little kid who wants something for nothing.

Once again you know nothing about my military service or reason for discharge so do not downgrade it.

Something for Nothing? Yes I didn't serve 4 years like you, but I did serve 17 months of honorable service. I could just as easily downgrade your service by saying individuals in combat positions, like ones who were 11b like me, sacrificed much more and had a much greater challenge in the military than individuals who were cooks or accountants in the navy, but I won't do that. I'm not down playing your service, please don't downplay mine.

I did 17 months of "time", and I feel I am deserving of either 17 months of 100% GI benefits or 36 months of 60% GI benefits. Me getting 17 months at 60% does not seem fair.

Secondly, the only other thing I said is that my father, at 50 years old and 30 years of military service, should be allowed to transfer his GI bill to his son. The fact that he could get married right now if he wanted to and transfer the bill to his new wife, but can't transfer it to his 23 year old son is ridiculous. Once again, if I could choose between seeing my father while growing up vs. receiving his gi-bill, I would gladly take the time with my father. The family members of service members serve their time too. I take it you had no wife or children during your 4 years, otherwise you would understand this.

As someone who will be supporting my father later on in life, the ability to use his GI bill would have indeed greatly benefited me, but to a larger extent, by financially helping me, he would have been financially secured come retirement. I see no greater joy in life than being able to buy my dad a nice house in florida when i finally start making money. His gi-bill would have let me do that at a younger age.

My original post may have come across as whiny, and I apologize for that. It was a personal epithet in which going into medical school, I actually expected the best financial situation, and came to expect the worst. I expected to be able to use my dads gi bill during medical school and my smaller gi bill during residency.

The fact that you are a "4 year" veteran, and can't see the injustice of a "30 year" veteran not being allowed to transfer his gi-bill because of the fact that a law was enacted a mere 30 days after his child turned 23 shocks me. You were so fast to point out that my 1 1/2 years of service pales in comparison to your 4 years of service. Right now you could get married and transfer your gi bill to your new 48 y/o wife who never had to sacrifice a thing while you were in the military. Right now you could transfer your gi bill to your 20 year old college student. You can do these things with 4 years of service. Right now however, a man who has served 30 years can't transfer his bill to his 23 year old son? I'm sorry, but this seems kind of unfair to me.

If this law ever changes, I will have likely graduated and will likely have no use for my fathers gi bill. I would hope that military physicians on this board would see the importance of this legislative issue in their own future. You will be the ones who will have the opportunity to transfer your gi-bill to your dependents in the future.

Sorry for the rant, but the individuals who are bashing me fail to understand the importance of an issue that probably affects several individuals in the military right now and several military docs right now. What if you are a 20 year military doc who is eligible for a gi bill and whose 24 year old daughter wants to go to law school? The doc likely has no need for the bill, but being able to transfer it would be a huge benefit for him and his daughter. Currently, you can't do this.

 

[Slevin]

Once again you know nothing about my military service or reason for discharge so do not downgrade it.

Something for Nothing? Yes, I didn't serve 4 years like you, but I did serve 17 months of honorable service. I could just as easily downgrade your service by saying individuals in combat positions, like ones who were 11b like me, sacrificed much more and had a much greater challenge in the military than individuals who were cooks or accountants in the navy, but I won't do that. I'm not down playing your service, please don't downplay mine.

I actually served my time in the Marine Corps infantry, a line battalion, 0351 Antitank assultman with 4th Marines on Camp Pendleton if you must know. I don't know what an 11B is but I'm assuming you were in the Army. I also respect all MOS's in the military, while the infantry is out to fight their job is made possible by all the support staff. While the support staff doesn't go out and engage the enemy on a regular basis joining the infantry is a personal choice, I'm not going to say that support staff are any less deserving than individuals in combat arms it's just a different aspect to achieving the same goal for this country.

I did 17 months of "time", and I feel I am deserving of either 17 months of 100% GI benefits or 36 months of 60% GI benefits. Me getting 17 months at 60% does not seem fair.

When you signed up for the GI bill you signed a contract that stipulated what the requirements were in order to get those benefits. As long as you held up your end of the bargain you would get full benefits, if not the contract that you signed willingly stated what the benefits would be if you didn't fulfill the contract. If you had any questions about this you should have asked them at the time. Saying you didn't understand the contract isn't an acceptable answer.

Secondly, the only other thing I said is that my father, at 50 years old and 30 years of military service, should be allowed to transfer his GI bill to his son. The fact that he could get married right now if he wanted to and transfer the bill to his new wife, but can't transfer it to his 23 year old son is ridiculous. Once again, if I could choose between seeing my father while growing up vs. receiving his gi-bill, I would gladly take the time with my father. The family members of service members serve their time too. I take it you had no wife or children during your 4 years, otherwise you would understand this.

It sucks that you missed the cutoff, however for whatever reason the powers that be when they passed the change in the law put cut off in the bill. It stinks what can you do? You can plead with the VA but they'll just refer to the law and that'll be that. When you were in the military did you ask your superiors for a different assignment just because you thought you were getting the raw end of the deal?

As someone who will be supporting my father later on in life, the ability to use his GI bill would have indeed greatly benefited me, but to a larger extent, by financially helping me, he would have been financially secured come retirement. I see no greater joy in life than being able to buy my dad a nice house in florida when i finally start making money. His gi-bill would have let me do that at a younger age.

I'm in the same position when I'm done I'll be supporting both my parents which is why I went into the military to pay for college. While in college I also took advantage of the pell grant which I qualified for because of various reasons. You can always apply for grants. I also became a resident assistant which paid for on campus housing and a free meal plan. There are ways to get where you want to be if you are willing to put in the work.

My original post may have come across as whiny, and I apologize for that. It was a personal epithet in which going into medical school, I actually expected the best financial situation, and came to expect the worst. I expected to be able to use my dads gi bill during medical school and my smaller gi bill during residency.

You were so fast to point out that my 1 1/2 years of service pales in comparison to your 4 years of service.

I was just pointing out the fact that you shouldn't be entitled to the same benefits as I am because you didn't serve the same length of time. I don't look at your period of service in comparison to mine except for the benefits aspect. Individuals who put in more time deserve more benefits that's plain and simple.

Right now however, a man who has served 30 years can't transfer his bill to his 23 year old son? I'm sorry, but this seems kind of unfair to me.

Yeah it sucks for you I get it. You can't use your dad's GI bill for your education. The cut off date was included for a reason. I don't know the reason but it did. The GI bill they had before I joined paid full tuition and housing, my dad got that for his time in the service. I'm not complaining I didn't get it. You have to man up and accept what you can't change and change what you can't accept.

If this law ever changes, I will have likely graduated and will likely have no use for my fathers gi bill. I would hope that military physicians on this board would see the importance of this legislative issue in their own future. You will be the ones who will have the opportunity to transfer your gi-bill to your dependents in the future.

Sorry for the rant, but the individuals who are bashing me fail to understand the importance of an issue that probably affects several individuals in the military right now and several military docs right now.

I at least get it. You were hoping to take advantage of this, but the new GI bill was passed a while ago and we all knew this day would come. It wasn't any big secret, you could have done the research and learned this all on your own before the new GI bill went into effect. (The 9/11 GI bill went into effect in 2009)

My whole point is this that whining will only get you so far, sometimes you luck out and sometimes you get shafted. When you luck out I don't hear you complaining that other people didn't, it's the way the cookie crumbles. Please grow a sack and don't sound like a prepubescent kid crying because their mommy won't let them have candy for dinner even though billy's mom did.

 

[dru2002]

Once again you know nothing about my military service or reason for discharge so do not downgrade it.

Something for Nothing? Yes I didn't serve 4 years like you, but I did serve 17 months of honorable service. I could just as easily downgrade your service by saying individuals in combat positions, like ones who were 11b like me, sacrificed much more and had a much greater challenge in the military than individuals who were cooks or accountants in the navy, but I won't do that. I'm not down playing your service, please don't downplay mine.

I did 17 months of "time", and I feel I am deserving of either 17 months of 100% GI benefits or 36 months of 60% GI benefits. Me getting 17 months at 60% does not seem fair.

Secondly, the only other thing I said is that my father, at 50 years old and 30 years of military service, should be allowed to transfer his GI bill to his son. The fact that he could get married right now if he wanted to and transfer the bill to his new wife, but can't transfer it to his 23 year old son is ridiculous. Once again, if I could choose between seeing my father while growing up vs. receiving his gi-bill, I would gladly take the time with my father. The family members of service members serve their time too. I take it you had no wife or children during your 4 years, otherwise you would understand this.

As someone who will be supporting my father later on in life, the ability to use his GI bill would have indeed greatly benefited me, but to a larger extent, by financially helping me, he would have been financially secured come retirement. I see no greater joy in life than being able to buy my dad a nice house in florida when i finally start making money. His gi-bill would have let me do that at a younger age.

My original post may have come across as whiny, and I apologize for that. It was a personal epithet in which going into medical school, I actually expected the best financial situation, and came to expect the worst. I expected to be able to use my dads gi bill during medical school and my smaller gi bill during residency.

The fact that you are a "4 year" veteran, and can't see the injustice of a "30 year" veteran not being allowed to transfer his gi-bill because of the fact that a law was enacted a mere 30 days after his child turned 23 shocks me. You were so fast to point out that my 1 1/2 years of service pales in comparison to your 4 years of service. Right now you could get married and transfer your gi bill to your new 48 y/o wife who never had to sacrifice a thing while you were in the military. Right now you could transfer your gi bill to your 20 year old college student. You can do these things with 4 years of service. Right now however, a man who has served 30 years can't transfer his bill to his 23 year old son? I'm sorry, but this seems kind of unfair to me.

If this law ever changes, I will have likely graduated and will likely have no use for my fathers gi bill. I would hope that military physicians on this board would see the importance of this legislative issue in their own future. You will be the ones who will have the opportunity to transfer your gi-bill to your dependents in the future.

Sorry for the rant, but the individuals who are bashing me fail to understand the importance of an issue that probably affects several individuals in the military right now and several military docs right now. What if you are a 20 year military doc who is eligible for a gi bill and whose 24 year old daughter wants to go to law school? The doc likely has no need for the bill, but being able to transfer it would be a huge benefit for him and his daughter. Currently, you can't do this.

You still sound whiny, most people on here have more time in the desert than your entire enlistment. The first part of your argument is ridiculous. Do you have any idea how much it cost to train you? An infantryman takes what 9 months or so to train. So at most they got one pump out of you. So yes the new gi bill was structured to encourage you to spend a little time using the skills they spent a fortune giving you. And I absolutely think the way it is structured was the right way to do it. As for the second part, that's how the law was written they never lied or bamboozeled you. If you think the law should be changed to benefit future generations write your congressman.

 

[Pianoman32]

You still sound whiny, most people on here have more time in the desert than your entire enlistment. The first part of your argument is ridiculous. Do you have any idea how much it cost to train you? An infantryman takes what 9 months or so to train.

What does the fact that many people on here have served more time in the desert than my entire enlistment have to do with anything? Are you honestly equating length of service with the privilege to whine? When I was in, many people I knew saw more bullets and IEDs on one patrol than the individuals on this entire board combined. The only people who they called whiny were the POGs who acted like they had tough deployments. Stop trying to equate military service as it can go both ways.

Secondly, infantry OSUT is 14 weeks, not 9 months. If they spent anymore than $7000 dollars for my training, salary, and food during this time, tax money went to waste. The only training costs that were truly huge, were the food, but at such large quantities, even this couldn't have been that expensive per individual, plus it's not like we were getting steak. After this, the only real cost is paying two drill sergeants per platoon measly salaries to scream and teach. OSUT is the worst of the military hurry up and wait; you would spend an entire day going to a range to only fire 20 rounds. I doubt I cost the military more than $200 total in ammunition costs. Lastly, material is hardly ever replaced and individual standard issue clothing and equipment comes out of the individuals first paycheck.

With my math, it costs about $2000 for food, per person for the 14 weeks. It costs about $1500 a person to have 2 drill sergeants for 14 weeks. It costs about $500 a person for 14 weeks to have a cpt and 1LT. It probably costs $200 per person for ammunition. Next, I'll add in a misc. cost of $500 bucks per private. Finally, I cost the military $3500 in a salary that was paid to me while training; however, most of this went straight back to the military by overcharging GI's for needed basic issue stuff.

With this math, they should have spent a max of 7grand on me total during non-deployable strict training time. If you take away my salary for being in the military and food requirements, they probably spent less than 2 grand on actual training expenses.

 

[Segovia]

What does the fact that many people on here have served more time in the desert than my entire enlistment have to do with anything? Are you honestly equating length of service with the privilege to whine? When I was in, many people I knew saw more bullets and IEDs on one patrol than the individuals on this entire board combined. The only people who they called whiny were the POGs who acted like they had tough deployments. Stop trying to equate military service as it can go both ways.

Secondly, infantry OSUT is 14 weeks, not 9 months. If they spent anymore than $7000 dollars for my training, salary, and food during this time, tax money went to waste. The only training costs that were truly huge, were the food, but at such large quantities, even this couldn't have been that expensive per individual, plus it's not like we were getting steak. After this, the only real cost is paying two drill sergeants per platoon measly salaries to scream and teach. OSUT is the worst of the military hurry up and wait; you would spend an entire day going to a range to only fire 20 rounds. I doubt I cost the military more than $200 total in ammunition costs. Lastly, material is hardly ever replaced and individual standard issue clothing and equipment comes out of the individuals first paycheck.

With my math, it costs about $2000 for food, per person for the 14 weeks. It costs about $1500 a person to have 2 drill sergeants for 14 weeks. It costs about $500 a person for 14 weeks to have a cpt and 1LT. It probably costs $200 per person for ammunition. Next, I'll add in a misc. cost of $500 bucks per private. Finally, I cost the military $3500 in a salary that was paid to me while training; however, most of this went straight back to the military by overcharging GI's for needed basic issue stuff.

With this math, they should have spent a max of 7grand on me total during non-deployable strict training time. If you take away my salary for being in the military and food requirements, they probably spent less than 2 grand on actual training expenses.

Just curious, and it is none of my business, but are you eligible for vocational rehab? I mean, you got out prior to your enlistment ending so there must be extenuating circumstances. I have known people on voc-rehab that have benefits that make the GI Bill look puny. Actually, prior to your post I didn't realize that people were eligible for the GI Bill unless they served 3 years, but I guess that got changed with the recent legislation (which is a good thing).

For the record, I never saw an IED and am getting full educational benefits. Sometimes I think it would be more equitable to quantify benefits based on hardship, but who is going to be the arbiter? You? Your commander? The VA? Oh, God help us if that were the case.

I was on a ship and had to live with 100 men farting in a tiny, hermetically sealed space. I should get double benefits.

You see, if they rendered benefits this way, it would be too subjective. We would have to determine how bad the farting was, i.e. consistency and tone of the gas, whether or not the crew had chili that night, etc. And that is just nonsense.

The fact is you joined prior to the implementation of the new GI Bill. So, you are actually getting better benefits than you expected when you initially joined, right? Under the old GI Bill, you would get peanuts. You should be grateful that you joined at such a fortuitous time, i.e. you served after 9/11. Think how the people feel that served in Desert Storm or Kosovo and got out prior to 9/11. At the very least, you made out equitably, and I would argue better than many.

 

[dru2002]

What does the fact that many people on here have served more time in the desert than my entire enlistment have to do with anything? Are you honestly equating length of service with the privilege to whine? When I was in, many people I knew saw more bullets and IEDs on one patrol than the individuals on this entire board combined. The only people who they called whiny were the POGs who acted like they had tough deployments. Stop trying to equate military service as it can go both ways.

Secondly, infantry OSUT is 14 weeks, not 9 months. If they spent anymore than $7000 dollars for my training, salary, and food during this time, tax money went to waste. The only training costs that were truly huge, were the food, but at such large quantities, even this couldn't have been that expensive per individual, plus it's not like we were getting steak. After this, the only real cost is paying two drill sergeants per platoon measly salaries to scream and teach. OSUT is the worst of the military hurry up and wait; you would spend an entire day going to a range to only fire 20 rounds. I doubt I cost the military more than $200 total in ammunition costs. Lastly, material is hardly ever replaced and individual standard issue clothing and equipment comes out of the individuals first paycheck.

With my math, it costs about $2000 for food, per person for the 14 weeks. It costs about $1500 a person to have 2 drill sergeants for 14 weeks. It costs about $500 a person for 14 weeks to have a cpt and 1LT. It probably costs $200 per person for ammunition. Next, I'll add in a misc. cost of $500 bucks per private. Finally, I cost the military $3500 in a salary that was paid to me while training; however, most of this went straight back to the military by overcharging GI's for needed basic issue stuff.

With this math, they should have spent a max of 7grand on me total during non-deployable strict training time. If you take away my salary for being in the military and food requirements, they probably spent less than 2 grand on actual training expenses.

Sorry I was counting boot camp in your training and some time in between the two schools. So just using the 7 weeks for OSUT and 8 for boot camp. That's 15 weeks. So my apologies. As far as cost, $24,914 is what it appears to be to recruit and train a Marine. I assume the cost is similar for an Army infantryman such as yourself. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3072945/

Have a nice day. I wish you the best of luck in fighting the VA.

 

[Mr. Freeze]

Thank you for your service. Just not enough to pay for your medical school.

I agree; if you did less than half the time you said you would for reasons beyond your control, you likely have some other avenue of reparations, so to speak. The feeling I get is that unless you were medically boarded, you don't have a leg to stand on. No pun intended.

 

[NAVYLABTECH08]

Not average medical school cost, average undergraduate tuition. Most med school is twice the fee of undergrad so you will still need to fund 1/2 of the fees, if not more.

 

[ArmyAU]

Thank you to the OP for starting this topic. I am an Army wife whose husband was recently deployed to Afghanistan. When he separates he wishes to attend medical school/PA school. He has not yet decided. This topic has been helpful as I am trying to make sure we can finance this in the best possible way. We are so thankful that this is even an option.

@ Pianoman: First, I understand that you would like to receive this wonderful benefit.. but when I read all of the things you posted the first thought that came to mind is "How arrogant!" Consider yourself fortunate that there is the new MGIB and that you were even considered to get any benefit at all. I do not know your circumstances, but I most certainly believe that your approach is offensive and not professional. Everyone has harships - but your true colours shine when display how you handle the conflict.

I have no idea what my husband is going through, but I know what I am going through. And, personally, I would be inclined to say that those who were deployed (anywhere) should be able to have access to 100% of the benefit. Those who have not been deployed, should have access to the benefit, but on a incremental decline of %. It is not because I think any less of those who have served only stateside.. It is because there is no comparison to serving stateside and actually facing combat.

My husband is in the Army, as well. But he is not an 11b. But, If I told ya I would have to kill you with his Yarborough knife.

I just hope you recognize that you are speaking to men/women in this forum who are veterans. Veterans are called such because they have had experience/service in warfare. God bless you all. I am ever so grateful and humbled.

Best of luck to you.

 

[Mister T]

Thank you to the OP for starting this topic. I am an Army wife whose husband was recently deployed to Afghanistan. When he separates he wishes to attend medical school/PA school. He has not yet decided. This topic has been helpful as I am trying to make sure we can finance this in the best possible way. We are so thankful that this is even an option.

@ Pianoman: First, I understand that you would like to receive this wonderful benefit.. but when I read all of the things you posted the first thought that came to mind is "How arrogant!" Consider yourself fortunate that there is the new MGIB and that you were even considered to get any benefit at all. I do not know your circumstances, but I most certainly believe that your approach is offensive and not professional. Everyone has harships - but your true colours shine when display how you handle the conflict.

I have no idea what my husband is going through, but I know what I am going through. And, personally, I would be inclined to say that those who were deployed (anywhere) should be able to have access to 100% of the benefit. Those who have not been deployed, should have access to the benefit, but on a incremental decline of %. It is not because I think any less of those who have served only stateside.. It is because there is no comparison to serving stateside and actually facing combat.

My husband is in the Army, as well. But he is not an 11b. But, If I told ya I would have to kill you with his Yarborough knife.

I just hope you recognize that you are speaking to men/women in this forum who are veterans. Veterans are called such because they have had experience/service in warfare. God bless you all. I am ever so grateful and humbled.

Best of luck to you.

Also keep in mind if he hasn't graduated from college yet, tell him to look into:

http://bain4weeks.com/
http://123collegedegree.com/collegecredits.html

Because he's a military active duty/veteran, he can take CLEP/DANTE/ECS exams for free and pass/skip a lot of bull**** undergraduate classes to graduate even earlier.

These two websites give thorough information on which classes are easy no studying needed to get As, and which ones require you to study a little bit and some which are really hard and tricky.

It's worth looking into if you don't want to waste 4 years with bull**** classes because all you really need to be prepared for med. school is/are the pre-med requirements. You still need to take the pre-reqs (biology, gen. chem, orgo, physics, calculus, statistics) at a college --- community or state school I'd recommend and get As in them. As he's military they won't give him any bull**** for doing that as A) they see him as a lot wiser and experienced B) it doesn't matter where you go for med. school/pa school. In fact, the way they do it in Europe and Asia, they just do the pre-reqs (no stupid 4 year undergrad bull****), and go to medschool at 17 or 18, and they are better doctors than in America.

The other thing is that these benefits can be transferred (the post-9/11 GI Bill ones) to your spouse I believe if he has served at least 6 years active duty or something like that but you can check on the www.newgibill.org website and go to the faq there.

Just remember that the big three are Texas, New York, and Michigan in terms of the best benefits you can get in terms of $$$/credit.

Of course you may end up going to a state that has a cheap/lower $$$/credit, but still covers your cost of attendance over the 4 years, so that may not matter either.

 

[ArmyAU]

Also keep in mind if he hasn't graduated from college yet, tell him to look into:

http://bain4weeks.com/
http://123collegedegree.com/collegecredits.html

Because he's a military active duty/veteran, he can take CLEP/DANTE/ECS exams for free and pass/skip a lot of bull**** undergraduate classes to graduate even earlier.

These two websites give thorough information on which classes are easy no studying needed to get As, and which ones require you to study a little bit and some which are really hard and tricky.

It's worth looking into if you don't want to waste 4 years with bull**** classes because all you really need to be prepared for med. school is/are the pre-med requirements. You still need to take the pre-reqs (biology, gen. chem, orgo, physics, calculus, statistics) at a college --- community or state school I'd recommend and get As in them. As he's military they won't give him any bull**** for doing that as A) they see him as a lot wiser and experienced B) it doesn't matter where you go for med. school/pa school. In fact, the way they do it in Europe and Asia, they just do the pre-reqs (no stupid 4 year undergrad bull****), and go to medschool at 17 or 18, and they are better doctors than in America.

The other thing is that these benefits can be transferred (the post-9/11 GI Bill ones) to your spouse I believe if he has served at least 6 years active duty or something like that but you can check on the www.newgibill.org website and go to the faq there.

Just remember that the big three are Texas, New York, and Michigan in terms of the best benefits you can get in terms of $$$/credit.

Of course you may end up going to a state that has a cheap/lower $$$/credit, but still covers your cost of attendance over the 4 years, so that may not matter either.

Thank you so so much! I am trying to do all the research to give him all the options and lay it out for him, but it is difficult since I go to Auburn and am 8 hours away from his duty station (Ft. Bragg)..

I can't express how much I appreciate all of your help.

 

[Croatalus_atrox]

Just remember that the big three are Texas, New York, and Michigan in terms of the best benefits you can get in terms of $$$/credit.

Of course you may end up going to a state that has a cheap/lower $$$/credit, but still covers your cost of attendance over the 4 years, so that may not matter either.

Don't get too used to the high payout rates in TX, NY, and MI. The original intention of the New GI Bill was to provide educational benefits capped at the tuition and fees for an undergraduate degree program at the most expensive publicly funded college or university in each state. Thanks to the creative liberties taken by some states (we're looking at you, Texas) in defining those tuition and fee maximums, legislators and the VA have realized that the current program creates huge inequalities in benefit depending on location. The current implementation also encourages other states to grossly inflate their reported tuition and fee maximums, which would increase educational spending in their states at private universities as well as public ones. As it stands right now, Texas veterans are eligible for tuition and fees benefits worth approximately $45K yearly. I highly doubt that there are any Texas undergraduate programs at publicly funded universities which cost $45K/year for in-state residents.

So the VA and various groups are looking to fix the situation. They are proposing that undergraduate degree programs at publicly funded state institutions be completely paid for, without any quibbling about credit hours or fees. Tuition and fee benefits to veterans attending graduate programs or private institutions would be capped at some generous amount, ~20K/year (adjusted for inflation). Of course, the housing and book stipend benefits would remain the same.

The point being, while it may do so now in some states, I wouldn't count on the new GI Bill benefit to fully fund expensive private medical schools in the near future.

 

[ArmyAU]

We are planning to move back up to NC as this is where most of our families live.. and where we wish to settle down. So, we know where we are going geographically.. And it helps that he is stationed there.

 

[Mister T]

Don't get too used to the high payout rates in TX, NY, and MI. The original intention of the New GI Bill was to provide educational benefits capped at the tuition and fees for an undergraduate degree program at the most expensive publicly funded college or university in each state. Thanks to the creative liberties taken by some states (we're looking at you, Texas) in defining those tuition and fee maximums, legislators and the VA have realized that the current program creates huge inequalities in benefit depending on location. The current implementation also encourages other states to grossly inflate their reported tuition and fee maximums, which would increase educational spending in their states at private universities as well as public ones. As it stands right now, Texas veterans are eligible for tuition and fees benefits worth approximately $45K yearly. I highly doubt that there are any Texas undergraduate programs at publicly funded universities which cost $45K/year for in-state residents.

So the VA and various groups are looking to fix the situation. They are proposing that undergraduate degree programs at publicly funded state institutions be completely paid for, without any quibbling about credit hours or fees. Tuition and fee benefits to veterans attending graduate programs or private institutions would be capped at some generous amount, ~20K/year (adjusted for inflation). Of course, the housing and book stipend benefits would remain the same.

The point being, while it may do so now in some states, I wouldn't count on the new GI Bill benefit to fully fund expensive private medical schools in the near future.

Do you have any sources on this or is this speculation? And also, couldn't you be "grandfathered" with the rates you had beforehand if they ever made changes or no?

 

[notdeadyet]

Do you have any sources on this or is this speculation? And also, couldn't you be "grandfathered" with the rates you had beforehand if they ever made changes or no?

Mister T- Out of curiousity, where are you at in the process? Have you applied the New GI Bill to medical school tuition yet?

 

[Croatalus_atrox]

Do you have any sources on this or is this speculation? And also, couldn't you be "grandfathered" with the rates you had beforehand if they ever made changes or no?

This is not speculation. The House Committee on Veterans' Affairs held an Education Roundtable last December, soliciting suggestions from various military and veterans groups regarding how to improve and streamline the post 9/11 GI Bill. The major issue was the delays that veterans were experiencing in getting their tuition bills paid for under the new GI Bill. In large part, this was found to be due to the poor implementation of the program and having to calculate the benefit individually for each veteran depending on credit hours taken and location. The solution most groups endorsed was as I described...to fully fund undergrad degrees at public institutions, and to have a single tuition and fees cap nationwide for graduate and private institution undergrad degrees.

Whether or not the House and VA decide to accept and implement those recommendations is up in the air. However, they do recognize that there is a problem and it seems pretty likely that the current state of affairs will not be allowed to continue. It's also pretty unlikely that there will be "grandfathering" of the current benefits under the New GI Bill, given that the individualized benefit and state differentials are what are causing the problems in the first place. Who knows, though?

However, schools still have the option of participating in the Yellow Ribbon program, where the VA will match grants and scholarships awarded to vets on a dollar for dollar basis. This has the potential to fully fund such education if participating schools provide aid totaling 50% of the amount above the tuition and fees caps.

 

[Mister T]

This is not speculation. The House Committee on Veterans' Affairs held an Education Roundtable last December, soliciting suggestions from various military and veterans groups regarding how to improve and streamline the post 9/11 GI Bill. The major issue was the delays that veterans were experiencing in getting their tuition bills paid for under the new GI Bill. In large part, this was found to be due to the poor implementation of the program and having to calculate the benefit individually for each veteran depending on credit hours taken and location. The solution most groups endorsed was as I described...to fully fund undergrad degrees at public institutions, and to have a single tuition and fees cap nationwide for graduate and private institution undergrad degrees.

Whether or not the House and VA decide to accept and implement those recommendations is up in the air. However, they do recognize that there is a problem and it seems pretty likely that the current state of affairs will not be allowed to continue. It's also pretty unlikely that there will be "grandfathering" of the current benefits under the New GI Bill, given that the individualized benefit and state differentials are what are causing the problems in the first place. Who knows, though?

However, schools still have the option of participating in the Yellow Ribbon program, where the VA will match grants and scholarships awarded to vets on a dollar for dollar basis. This has the potential to fully fund such education if participating schools provide aid totaling 50% of the amount above the tuition and fees caps.

Interesting, that's good to know. If you don't mind me asking, but is there a website/source where can I check the progress/discussions about this bill that hopefully isn't in legal lingo?

I did see from the www.newgibill.org website a post where they recommended there be a national $13,000 year total benefit, but it seems as that was a long time ago and never came to fruition.

I guess if they make the changes that are being recommended, the post-9/11 GI Bill would be only marginally better than the Montgomery GI Bill.