Post-Bacc

[maydaymalone]

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Hi All,

I was not particularly sure where to put this as I am very new to this forum. I am currently a senior at a decent midwest university and I am thinking about post-bacc for next year. I wanted to take a gap year so that I can include my senior grades.

Currently I have (if I was going to apply in the June 2015 cycle):
Cum: 3.51
Science: 3.4 something

After my senior year I should have: (I am taking mostly upper division math/science courses)
Cum: 3.63
Science: 3.54

C+ in MCB and B- in Genetics, Non URM


I am a California resident. Volunteer >700 hours, Shadowing >100 hours, Research with 1 publication through Stanford (4th author) and working on second.

MCAT (8/22/15) - 503 🙁
Breakdown: 127/123/126/127

I am retaking my MCAT in January 2016 and I hope to improve that darn verbal score, and hopefully my other scores as well.

I want to improve my GPA, and I know that when I apply June 2016, that these post-bacc classes will not be on my AMCAS, however, I can possibly update schools or if I don't get in anywhere I will have an increased GPA.

My question is, essentially, would it be advisable to do a post-bacc. To my understanding, taking upper division classes and doing well (upward trend and all) would only be to my advantage. I know there are other options such as Masters, but those will not add to my undergrad GPA.

Please let me know what you all think! Thank you!

 

[maydaymalone]

@Goro I have deeply respected your advice on other threads, and if you have time to chime in, I would greatly appreciate it!

 

[WedgeDawg]

A post-bacc won't be necessary with your projections, but if you are looking to get into MD schools, you'll need to retake your MCAT for a 511+

 

[maydaymalone]

@WedgeDawg Firstly, thank you very much for the reply. Would it look bad for a post-bacc or do you think that there are other things I can do during my gap year that would help my application? I just feel that I can improve my GPA and show that I am taking a rigorous course load (at a top 10 school, which is not my undergrad institution).

 

[WedgeDawg]

If you get a 3.63, you are well within range for an MD acceptance. Your MCAT score, however, is much too low for MD schools, which is why I recommend retaking it (but not before you're averaging 511+ on practice tests). At a glance, your ECs look good.

 

[maydaymalone]

I do have a C+ in MCB and B- in genetics as well.

 

[WedgeDawg]

I do have a C+ in MCB and B- in genetics as well.

But your overall GPA is fine. Your MCAT is not.

 

[maydaymalone]

What would you recommend I do for my gap year? I thought that post-bacc looked good, but if you have any other advice that would be extremely helpful.

 

[maydaymalone]

I will be retaking the MCAT in January, if ready. If not, I plan to write in April.

 

[WedgeDawg]

What would you recommend I do for my gap year? I thought that post-bacc looked good, but if you have any other advice that would be extremely helpful.

What are you interested in doing?

 

[maydaymalone]

I am interested in raising my GPA, maybe I could take a light course load and do more shadowing or something on the side. I apologize for so many replies to this, I just don't really know what to do for my gap year. I just keep telling myself that if I can get my GPA up to a 3.7 something, I would have an even better chance at acceptance.

 

[WedgeDawg]

I am interested in raising my GPA, maybe I could take a light course load and do more shadowing or something on the side. I apologize for so many replies to this, I just don't really know what to do for my gap year. I just keep telling myself that if I can get my GPA up to a 3.7 something, I would have an even better chance at acceptance.

3.63 vs 3.7 is meaningless. What outside of academics are you interested in doing.

 

[Goro]

If you maintain the upward trend and score > 510 on the next MCAT, I don't think any post-bac will be needed. Just apply strategically. And get in some interesting ECs.

@Goro I have deeply respected your advice on other threads, and if you have time to chime in, I would greatly appreciate it!

 

[maydaymalone]

Honestly, anything that will improve my chances at getting into a medical school. I know it sounds so cliche and dumb, but I have so much damn pressure to get into med school, which is why I am so neurotic about my GPA and improving my MCAT. I know there is no ONE thing I can do in my gap year that can possibly make or break my acceptance, but I am just kinda lost in what to do next year.

 

[maydaymalone]

@Goro I agree with you on the upward trend, which is why I thought if I do post-bacc at a well-known institution and do well, that could be a back up if I have to re-apply.

 

[maydaymalone]

@Goro @WedgeDawg I really appreciate you guys taking the time to help me out, it means a lot.

 

[WedgeDawg]

@Goro I agree with you on the upward trend, which is why I thought if I do post-bacc at a well-known institution and do well, that could be a back up if I have to re-apply.

What do you think raising your GPA from a 3.63 to a 3.7 will do for you?

 

[maydaymalone]

@WedgeDawg Yeah, i know its not that much. But, I just thought that adcoms looking at rigorous course load at a post-bacc would be favorable.

 

[WedgeDawg]

@WedgeDawg Yeah, i know its not that much. But, I just thought that adcoms looking at rigorous course load at a post-bacc would be favorable.

Yes, but it's about diminishing marginal returns. Increasing your GPA by so little, particularly when it's already better than acceptable, is not an efficient use of your time.

Right now, the best use of your energy is raising your MCAT score from a 503 to a 511+. That will move you from a group that has about a 45% success rate to a group that has about a 65% success rate (or even higher the higher your MCAT is).

Alternatively, strengthening your ECs even further will probably make you a better candidate than marginally raising your GPA and will also provide things such as meaningful letters of rec should you need to reapply. I know raising your GPA is tempting because it's a tangible, measurable increase, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's a better idea than something that's more difficult to measure.

 

[maydaymalone]

I completely agree that increasing my GPA to as close to a 515 as possible, is the first thing on my list. The post-bacc institution I will be hopefully be attending (Washu), has been known to have excellent opportunities in terms of volunteer, research, and other EC opportunities. I just thought that going there would be a good support structure during my gap year, where I have a plethora of opportunities to get involved with, while taking classes there.

I also hoped to get a job in a lab or something

 

[WedgeDawg]

I completely agree that increasing my GPA to as close to a 515 as possible, is the first thing on my list. The post-bacc institution I will be hopefully be attending (Washu), has been known to have excellent opportunities in terms of volunteer, research, and other EC opportunities. I just thought that going there would be a good support structure during my gap year, where I have a plethora of opportunities to get involved with, while taking classes there.

1) WashU is a hard school (ask efle or mimelim) and getting As there is going to be a real struggle

2) You can hurt your chances if you do a postbacc and don't get As, particularly since you're so close to an A- average

3) I don't understand why you are so insistent on doing a postbacc when we've shown that it won't help you. If you really want to do it, fine, but be fully warned that it could hurt you and even if it does help you, the effects will be minimal and possibly non-significant

 

[maydaymalone]

The idea of lowering my GPA was the one thing that was stopping me from doing post-bacc, however, a couple of my friends are in the program right now and they say that they are doing well and the classes are more interesting and easier than my undergrad institution. I know WashU is hard, but when I hear that my friends are doing well and the course-work is not terrible, it just makes me think about how it could possibly benefit my application. I mean no disrespect at all by continuing to talk about this post-bacc program, and I am reconsidering it now. I just needed to open up to someone about whats on my mind about these post-bacc programs.

I have actually really wanted to do EMT or ER scribe, both of which allow for great patient interaction and experience in the medical field, as well as something I can talk about.

 

[Goro]

Mayday, pay attention to the 'Dawg! Your MCAT is the issue, not your GPA!
You should at least try one app cycle to see how it goes once you improve your MCAT score.

1) WashU is a hard school (ask efle or mimelim) and getting As there is going to be a real struggle

2) You can hurt your chances if you do a postbacc and don't get As, particularly since you're so close to an A- average

3) I don't understand why you are so insistent on doing a postbacc when we've shown that it won't help you. If you really want to do it, fine, but be fully warned that it could hurt you and even if it does help you, the effects will be minimal and possibly non-significant

 

[GrapesofRath]

The idea of lowering my GPA was the one thing that was stopping me from doing post-bacc, however, a couple of my friends are in the program right now and they say that they are doing well and the classes are more interesting and easier than my undergrad institution. I know WashU is hard, but when I hear that my friends are doing well and the course-work is not terrible, it just makes me think about how it could possibly benefit my application. I mean no disrespect at all by continuing to talk about this post-bacc program, and I am reconsidering it now. I just needed to open up to someone about whats on my mind about these post-bacc programs.

I have actually really wanted to do EMT or ER scribe, both of which allow for great patient interaction and experience in the medical field, as well as something I can talk about.

Don't take unnecessary risks if you don't have to. It's really that simple. Boosting your GPA from 3.57 to 3.62 or whatever the post-bacc can do isn't "benefiting your application" anywhere near as much as you think it is. You know what's far more likely to happen than a post-bacc benefiting you? You getting some B's in a hyper competitive program where everybody in there will be under the "do or die" attitude and you really starting to hurt your application. Taking that type of risk when you don't need to is just not a good idea.

You always hear ADCOMS on this site always talk about decision making. Doing a hyper competitive post-bacc with a 3.55 type UG GPA is not good decision making, particularly when you have a low MCAT score that is what needs to be addressed.

 

[maydaymalone]

@GrapesofRath @Goro @WedgeDawg Thank you all for your replies and advice. I feel that I am being stupidly stubborn about post-bacc, when it probably is not for me. I will focus on my senior grades and most importantly my MCAT score. I'm just still a bit confused on what to do during my gap year, which gives me something to think about. If you guys have any input on what would be best for my gap year, I am all ears.

 

[WedgeDawg]

@GrapesofRath @Goro @WedgeDawg Thank you all for your replies and advice. I feel that I am being stupidly stubborn about post-bacc, when it probably is not for me. I will focus on my senior grades and most importantly my MCAT score. I'm just still a bit confused on what to do during my gap year, which gives me something to think about. If you guys have any input on what would be best for my gap year, I am all ears.

Literally anything but a postbacc. Continue doing research, do some interesting volunteer work, get a job, teach somewhere, anything that suits your fancy. Scribing is a cool option if you can get a spot. EMT can possibly be enlightening (though @Goro doesn't have a particularly high opinion of it).

 

[Goro]

For gap year, think service to others less fortunate than yourself.

Service need not be "unique". If you can alleviate suffering in your community through service to the poor, homeless, illiterate, fatherless, etc, you are meeting an otherwise unmet need and learning more about the lives of the people (or types of people) who will someday be your patients. Check out your local houses of worship for volunteer opportunities.

Examples include: Habitat for Humanity, Ronald McDonald House, Humane Society, crisis hotlines, soup kitchen, food pantry, homeless or women’s shelter, after-school tutoring for students or coaching a sport in a poor school district, teaching ESL to adults at a community center, Big Brothers/Big Sisters, or Meals on Wheels.

Some types of volunteer activities are more appealing than others. Volunteering in a nice suburban hospital is all very well and good and all, but doesn't show that you're willing to dig in and get your hands dirty in the same way that working with the developmentally disabled (or homeless, the dying, or Alzheimers or mentally ill or elderly or ESL or domestic, rural impoverished) does. The uncomfortable situations are the ones that really demonstrate your altruism and get you 'brownie points'. Plus, they frankly teach you more -- they develop your compassion and humanity in ways comfortable situations can't.

@GrapesofRath @Goro @WedgeDawg Thank you all for your replies and advice. I feel that I am being stupidly stubborn about post-bacc, when it probably is not for me. I will focus on my senior grades and most importantly my MCAT score. I'm just still a bit confused on what to do during my gap year, which gives me something to think about. If you guys have any input on what would be best for my gap year, I am all ears.

 

[WedgeDawg]

For gap year, think service to others less fortunate than yourself.

Service need not be "unique". If you can alleviate suffering in your community through service to the poor, homeless, illiterate, fatherless, etc, you are meeting an otherwise unmet need and learning more about the lives of the people (or types of people) who will someday be your patients. Check out your local houses of worship for volunteer opportunities.

Examples include: Habitat for Humanity, Ronald McDonald House, Humane Society, crisis hotlines, soup kitchen, food pantry, homeless or women’s shelter, after-school tutoring for students or coaching a sport in a poor school district, teaching ESL to adults at a community center, Big Brothers/Big Sisters, or Meals on Wheels.

Some types of volunteer activities are more appealing than others. Volunteering in a nice suburban hospital is all very well and good and all, but doesn't show that you're willing to dig in and get your hands dirty in the same way that working with the developmentally disabled (or homeless, the dying, or Alzheimers or mentally ill or elderly or ESL or domestic, rural impoverished) does. The uncomfortable situations are the ones that really demonstrate your altruism and get you 'brownie points'. Plus, they frankly teach you more -- they develop your compassion and humanity in ways comfortable situations can't.

Home run, Goro, home run.

 

[GrapesofRath]

@GrapesofRath @Goro @WedgeDawg Thank you all for your replies and advice. I feel that I am being stupidly stubborn about post-bacc, when it probably is not for me. I will focus on my senior grades and most importantly my MCAT score. I'm just still a bit confused on what to do during my gap year, which gives me something to think about. If you guys have any input on what would be best for my gap year, I am all ears.

What interests you? Where is your app lacking in right now?

Want to do some research: join a lab. You could also work as a clinical research coordinator or something like that.
Want to get some clinical exposure: a scribe or job as nursing assistant or phlebotomist could be for you. NA's and phelbotomists in some states need to take some certification course for like 2-3 months. Not a huge thing though.
Want to get some good volunteering experience: Americorps is a good option. Will get you in a different part of the country as well.
Want to make money on the side: MCAT/SAT/ACT tutoring pays pretty well. Work as an UBER driver on the side as well.

As Goro said, volunteering service is a very good thing to pursue. But really that doesn't need to take up that much of your gap year.

Honestly as much as SDN will suggest otherwise, your gap year doesn't need to be the most fancy thing ever. Doing some research on the side for 12-15 hours a week, getting a part time job to pay some bills, and volunteering some here and there does the job just fine as well. The whole point of one is to allow yourself the chance to relax for a bit before going on that decade long journey of medical school training. You are already submitting your app before your gap year really starts, what you do during your gap year as long as its something and its not unproductive will be fine.

 

[maydaymalone]

@WedgeDawg @Goro @GrapesofRath Thank you all for this valuable input and insight, I really appreciate your time and thought into my future. You have given me a lot to think about, especially the futility of post-bacc. Thank you again!!