Practicing IM in Manhattan

[MedicineMan99]

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Hi everyone,

I have been doing a lot of research and would love to hear input from those of you actually in the IM field. I am currently a second year DO student trying to figure out how I want to structure rotations for an ideal residency, job, etc.

So here is my basic scenario. I want to eventually practice IM in a group practice in Manhattan. I am fully aware that this puts me on the lower end of the spectrum in terms of earnings. I am fine with that as long as I earn enough so that I can live in a semi-decent place in Manhattan (I realize this means no condos in central park west). I would prefer a condo but no against an apartment.

In terms of money I will have 0 debt upon graduation. Does anyone have any first hand knowledge of what an internist in Manhattan in a group practice earns on average? Anyone know of any great IM residencies in decent areas of Manhattan? Any other knowledge or suggestions?

Thanks very much!

 

[Dr. Don]

no debt after med school? daddy must be well-off 😉

Manhattan is an amazing place, but why practice there as an internist? Do people there even go to internists? I figured they just go straight to specialists after all if they live there, they can afford it!

Hi everyone,

I have been doing a lot of research and would love to hear input from those of you actually in the IM field. I am currently a MS-II trying to figure out how I want to structure rotations for an ideal residency, job, etc.

So here is my basic scenario. I want to eventually practice IM in a group practice in Manhattan. I am fully aware that this puts me on the lower end of the spectrum in terms of earnings. I am fine with that as long as I earn enough so that I can live in a semi-decent place in Manhattan (I realize this means no condos in central park west). I would prefer a condo but no against an apartment.

In terms of money I will have 0 debt upon graduation. Does anyone have any first hand knowledge of what an internist in Manhattan in a group practice earns on average? Anyone know of any great IM residencies in decent areas of Manhattan? Any other knowledge or suggestions?

Thanks very much!

 

[MedicineMan99]

no debt after med school? daddy must be well-off 😉

Manhattan is an amazing place, but why practice there as an internist? Do people there even go to internists? I figured they just go straight to specialists after all if they live there, they can afford it!

He's not well off. I just made some very wise investment decisions very early on.

Contrary to popular belief, not everyone in Manhattan is rich. There are countless middle and lower class people. Not everyone living in Manhattan lives in a condo or a coop or an expensive apartment. There are many other places to live, although it's more difficult to find a nice place to live without having money. I love IM and would never practice a different subspecialty simply because it would be more convenient for the area in which I wish to live.

 

[Dr. Don]

Dude hook me up with the investor insider info!!! 👍 I have just graduated with about $260,000 dollars worth of debt and I'm going into IM but seriously considering specializing for two reasons....

1. Pay off my debt sooner (obviously better lifestyle too)
2. IM is ALOT of info, and in order to be really good at it, its a vast amount of info you gotta know. As a specialist you can minimize that to just one organ.


I guess I still have some time to decide if a specialty is for me or not. You being a second year have even more time to decide. You haven't even gone through your core rotations yet! Good luck to you and keep your options open.

He's not well off. I just made some very wise investment decisions very early on.

Contrary to popular belief, not everyone in Manhattan is rich. There are countless middle and lower class people. Not everyone living in Manhattan lives in a condo or a coop or an expensive apartment. There are many other places to live, although it's more difficult to find a nice place to live without having money. I love IM and would never practice a different subspecialty simply because it would be more convenient for the area in which I wish to live.

 

[MedicineMan99]

Dude hook me up with the investor insider info!!! 👍 I have just graduated with about $260,000 dollars worth of debt and I'm going into IM but seriously considering specializing for two reasons....

1. Pay off my debt sooner (obviously better lifestyle too)
2. IM is ALOT of info, and in order to be really good at it, its a vast amount of info you gotta know. As a specialist you can minimize that to just one organ.


I guess I still have some time to decide if a specialty is for me or not. You being a second year have even more time to decide. You haven't even gone through your core rotations yet! Good luck to you and keep your options open.

Dr. Don, it's all about having a diversified portfolio and not using a broker😉

I know internists have to know a lot. I also like FM which I guess would have to know even more since peds is included and the other one in my "top three" is emergency medicine.

But I really see myself in primary care and don't think I would enjoy a specialty but of course all this could change during rotations/residency.

Still though, anyone have an answer to my original post?

 

[Friendly]

Dr. Don, it's all about having a diversified portfolio and not using a broker😉

I know internists have to know a lot. I also like FM which I guess would have to know even more since peds is included and the other one in my "top three" is emergency medicine.

But I really see myself in primary care and don't think I would enjoy a specialty but of course all this could change during rotations/residency.

Still though, anyone have an answer to my original post?

It's possible:http://www.barleymd.com/bio.htm

 

[MedicineMan99]

It's possible:http://www.barleymd.com/bio.htm

Thanks for finding that site! From reading the site and his bio, Dr. Barley seems to lead the exact professional life I desire, except for the fact that he is not in a group practice. The fact that he is independent and does not accept insurance, however, surely increases his income substantially if he is able to maintain a full patient load. I am curious if it is possible to have a good life, however, by being in a group IM practice in Manhattan that does accept insurance.

Thanks again, I will email Dr. Barley and see if he will provide any input.

 

[MedicineMan99]

So having done some more research, it appears as though people have generally have non-optimal experiences as medical residents in NYC, although I mostly read about it among surgery residents.

Has anyone heard favorable things about any IM residency based out of Manhattan?

 

[DrWBD]

First, you don't need to do residency in NYC, including Manhattan, to get a job there. While some of the best IM residencies in America are in Manhattan (Mt. Sinai, Columbia, NYH-Cornell) you'll have an uphill battle getting into one of those programs as a DO. That leaves all the other IM programs, some of which are of marginal quality and are popular only because of location rather than quality of training, lifestyle, etc.

Secondly, you don't actually need to live in Manhattan to work there after residency. Many people commute from the outer boroughs or from New Jersey to work in Manhattan. In fact, you'll probably get more for your money living elsewhere.

Third, as an internist starting out in Manhattan, expect to make less compared to your peers practicing elsewhere. One academic hospital in Greenwich Village offered an acquaintance of mine an $85k starting salary. Granted, this was a hospital-based clinic group practice, and there may have been incentives that could push the salary a little higher, but that's still pretty low. This is true for NY in general but especially for the five boroughs and Long Island - there are way too many physicians here willing to work for very little, and reimbursements are lousy compared to the cost of maintaining a practice.

 

[Llenroc]

Even in the suburbs it's not much better. My family used to live on Long Island, and many senior doctors there in private practice worked for about half as much as what doctors here in the Midwest would even consider getting out of bed for in the morning.

That said though, on $85K (if that's typical, or even low end these days) you can make a living in Manhattan.

 

[MedicineMan99]

First, you don't need to do residency in NYC, including Manhattan, to get a job there. While some of the best IM residencies in America are in Manhattan (Mt. Sinai, Columbia, NYH-Cornell) you'll have an uphill battle getting into one of those programs as a DO. That leaves all the other IM programs, some of which are of marginal quality and are popular only because of location rather than quality of training, lifestyle, etc.

Secondly, you don't actually need to live in Manhattan to work there after residency. Many people commute from the outer boroughs or from New Jersey to work in Manhattan. In fact, you'll probably get more for your money living elsewhere.

Third, as an internist starting out in Manhattan, expect to make less compared to your peers practicing elsewhere. One academic hospital in Greenwich Village offered an acquaintance of mine an $85k starting salary. Granted, this was a hospital-based clinic group practice, and there may have been incentives that could push the salary a little higher, but that's still pretty low. This is true for NY in general but especially for the five boroughs and Long Island - there are way too many physicians here willing to work for very little, and reimbursements are lousy compared to the cost of maintaining a practice.

Thank you for your reply. I know I don't have to do a residency in Manhattan in order to live there, but I want to. Also, I am not looking to do the best residency in the country, just a decent one.

I am very well aware of the geographics and economics of NYC. I do not want to live or practice in Queens or Brooklyn or Staten Island or the Bronx, although I know it would be much cheaper. I want to do this in Manhattan. I know I will not make much money practicing in Manhattan. That's not my question. My question is is does anyone know of an internist who does this and lives a decent lifestyle?

Thanks for the comments thus far.
The practice I want to be in would not be hospital based, I am wondering if anyone has heard of an internist starting at at least $150K?