Pre-MD-PhD Sophomore Check-in

[HaverfordSquirrel]

Hello, I'd be very grateful if I could get a little "check-up" (no pun intended) after my third semester in college. In addition to some *QUICK questions* under this very condensed repertoire, this is what I accomplished so far as a pre-MD-PhD college sophomore:

- Completed 2 years of chemistry (including orgo), 1 year of biology, 1 year of English, 1 semester of psychology, 1 semester of medical sociology. Avg GPA 3.8
- Had a 10-week translational research experience at a cancer center last summer. Presented research twice since then.
- Started research during the school year in a biochem lab this year.
- Started working as a peer tutor in chemistry and biology this year.
- Shadowed two surgeons during clinic and surgery cases in winter break for two weeks

Plan to:
- Take statistics junior year
- Take 1 year of physics junior year (in case I do not want a gap year)
- Start hospital volunteering this spring semester
- Work with a local nonprofit for cancer outreach to the hospital I will work in
- Sign up for the one-week spring break service project this year, ran by my school's community service club
- Work in a cancer research lab again for 10 weeks in the upcoming summer

QUESTIONS:
- Is physician-shadowing clinical experience?
- How much clinical experience do I need as a pre-MD-PhD? E.g. should I sacrifice a 10-week summer research internship opportunity for a semi-long-term clinical experience... or is hospital volunteering during the school year enough?
- Would the spring break trip be appreciated by adcoms? We would most likely build houses and public facilities for a neighborhood. Thus, it is not medicine-related at all.
- Any other advice/comments?

Thank you!!

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[Noctámbulo]

-Shadowing is clinical experience (but not volunteering). For MD/PhD, it's critical that you show an interest in medicine on top of research, so it's recommended that you have at least a year of clinical volunteering (for a total of 200-250+ hours). Don't worry about dropping your summer research. You can start volunteering your first semester of junior year and still be fine. As for shadowing, 100 hours is a good place to stop, but do try to gain a comprehensive understanding of medicine by shadowing a diverse array of specialties.

-Non-clinical volunteering is appreciated, too, because it shows altruism. Your spring break plans sound good.

-Other advice: try to keep your GPA above a 3.8 and rock the MCAT (517+). Everything else looks good!

 

[Lucca]

check out the physician scientist forum on SDN and read the sticky by Neuronix on MD/PhD admissions. Also read the thread on MD only versus MD / PhD physician scientist pathways.

Is shadowing clinical experience? Yes, but you should also have some clinical volunteering. However, this will not be as important as it is for MD-only. The typical recommendation from MD/PhD directors is 150 hours at least of clinical experience and not an excessive amount because research should be your primary and central EC.

DO NOT sacrifice that research internship for the clinical experience. Volunteer at the hospital during the semester.

Overseas service projects, especially ones for very short periods of time, will not add anything to your application. Do it if you want but not for your application.

MD/PhD advice: Given that you have ballpark GPA/MCAT for a program: Research >>>>> clinical experience > everything else.

 

[HaverfordSquirrel]

-Shadowing is clinical experience (but not volunteering). For MD/PhD, it's critical that you show an interest in medicine on top of research, so it's recommended that you have at least a year of clinical volunteering (for a total of 200-250+ hours). Don't worry about dropping your summer research. You can start volunteering your first semester of junior year and still be fine. As for shadowing, 100 hours is a good place to stop, but do try to gain a comprehensive understanding of medicine by shadowing a diverse array of specialties.

-Non-clinical volunteering is appreciated, too, because it shows altruism. Your spring break plans sound good.

-Other advice: try to keep your GPA above a 3.8 and rock the MCAT (517+). Everything else looks good!

Thank you! To clarify, are you saying that hospital volunteering is not clinical experience? If not, then where would I get clinical experience besides shadowing?

 

[HaverfordSquirrel]

check out the physician scientist forum on SDN and read the sticky by Neuronix on MD/PhD admissions. Also read the thread on MD only versus MD / PhD physician scientist pathways.

Is shadowing clinical experience? Yes, but you should also have some clinical volunteering. However, this will not be as important as it is for MD-only. The typical recommendation from MD/PhD directors is 150 hours at least of clinical experience and not an excessive amount because research should be your primary and central EC.

DO NOT sacrifice that research internship for the clinical experience. Volunteer at the hospital during the semester.

Overseas service projects, especially ones for very short periods of time, will not add anything to your application. Do it if you want but not for your application.

MD/PhD advice: Given that you have ballpark GPA/MCAT for a program: Research >>>>> clinical experience > everything else.

Thank you! If I plan on continuing pursuing Breast Cancer research, should I volunteer at the hospital's Breast Center? Or should I be an ER volunteer as typically recommended for pre-Meds?

 

[flapjack3d]

QUESTIONS:
- Is physician-shadowing clinical experience?
- How much clinical experience do I need as a pre-MD-PhD? E.g. should I sacrifice a 10-week summer research internship opportunity for a semi-long-term clinical experience... or is hospital volunteering during the school year enough?
- Would the spring break trip be appreciated by adcoms? We would most likely build houses and public facilities for a neighborhood. Thus, it is not medicine-related at all.
- Any other advice/comments?

Thank you!!

I'm not applying MD-PhD, but was thinking seriously about doing so for a while, so take advice with a grain of salt. App is looking spot-on so far. Push for as much independent work as possible in the lab this year and into the future.
You don't need much clinical experience for MD-PhD. Number one is always scores, then close behind is research experience. If you look through MD apps you'll see MD-PhD applicants who got into great places with ~50 hours of shadowing, ~100 hours of clinical experience. That wouldn't get you far if you were MD only. So yes, hospital volunteering during the year is probably more than enough. Short, intense volunteering isn't valued as much as sustained commitment to long -term activities. I wouldn't waste your money on the spring break trip if you're just doing it for your app. Good luck!

 

[Lucca]

Thank you! If I plan on continuing pursuing Breast Cancer research, should I volunteer at the hospital's Breast Center? Or should I be an ER volunteer as typically recommended for pre-Meds?

Do whichever one you like best, it's not that big a deal really. The more you get to interact the patients the more enjoyable it will be though, FWIW.

 

[Noctámbulo]

Thank you! To clarify, are you saying that hospital volunteering is not clinical experience? If not, then where would I get clinical experience besides shadowing?

Hospital volunteering is clinical experience. "Clinical experience" is an umbrella term referring to shadowing and clinical volunteering, and you need both of those for a successful application. Clinical experience can be obtained at a hospital, nursing home, free clinic, hospice, etc. As long as you're interacting with patients (or are close enough to "smell them," as LizzyM likes to put it) and are getting a taste of medicine, it counts!

 

[7331poas]

If someone is an MD PhD applicant but is willing to go MD if he got into none of the PhD programs on a given cycle I would assume they would need more volunteer hours?