Pre-Med Accused and Cleared of Rape Charges

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referee3 said:
There was nothing irresponsible about it. She consented to all the bondage and the general idea. Not his fault at all. She knew EXACTLY what she was getting her self into.
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Not according to the article. That is not what she consented to. She consented to bondage at an earlier date. She was not asked about bondage, rough stuff, or sex on this occasion, just 'something dangerous' (which she did not even know would necessarily be sexual). She certainly did not agree to have her 'no, stop' ignored. It was. That makes this assault and rape. You do not have sex with someone who is actively saying 'no, stop' unless you've done a HELL of a thorough job of making sure that everybody is on the same page and has ways out. Because it is rape except in very, very, very specific circumstances (i.e. not these ones).
 
None of this matters however. All that matters is that the court dropped all charges against him and now it is up to him to clear his rep.
 
mehc012 said:
"The fact that he raped someone and was cleared is totally inconsequential" = why this matters.
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According to the courts he didn't rape anyone and that's what matters. I don't understand how this is hard for you to understand.
 
referee3 said:
According to the courts he didn't rape anyone and that's what matters. I don't understand how this is hard for you to understand.
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That's not true...he wasn't found not guilty, he just hasn't been indicted...yet.
the article said:
Prosecutors have not decided whether they might still seek an indictment against Hossain
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Also, even if this was 'he was not convicted' (which it is NOT), losing the court case means "we couldn't 100% prove he did it" rather than "we can say with certainty that he didn't do it."

In this case, the judge made her reasoning clear by the questions she asked. Apparently in her mind, not saying no when he bound her made anything after that consensual. That is bull****.
If that's the reason he's not in jail, fine...we all know the court system sucks at these things. But good luck finding a med school who is on board with that if they find any info on the case (which, of course, they will when they ask about arrests)
 
mehc012 said:
That's not true...he wasn't found not guilty, he just hasn't been indicted...yet.
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Which means he is not guilty. That's even better than being found not guilty since there wasnt even enough evidence to make a case. End of story. Her story essentially has no merit in the eyes of the court. Plain and simple. Sorry to hurt your soft female feelings.
 
referee3 said:
Which means he is not guilty. That's even better than being found not guilty since there wasnt even enough evidence to make a case. End of story. Her story essentially has no merit in the eyes of the court. Plain and simple. Sorry to hurt your soft female feelings.
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That's not how this works. He has NOT been found 'not guilty', and would be far better off if he had been. Now, he can still be tried for it in the future. You have no idea what you're talking about. Sorry to hurt your feelings (be they hard, soft, male, female, or otherwise...far be it from me to make assumptions).

And of course her story has no merit in the eyes of the court. That's how the court system works in rape cases...rape victims are to be shat on, not listened to. This is not news. It's why d-bags like the one in the story get away with rape all the time. It doesn't change whether or not he actually raped her, nor whether he will have to answer 'yes' in the future when asked if he has ever been arrested (and for what).
 
mehc012 said:
That's not how this works. He has NOT been found 'not guilty', and would be far better off if he had been. Now, he can still be tried for it in the future. You have no idea what you're talking about. Sorry to hurt your feelings (be they hard, soft, male, female, or otherwise...far be it from me to make assumptions).

And of course her story has no merit in the eyes of the court. That's how the court system works in rape cases...rape victims are to be shat on, not listened to. This is not news. It's why d-bags like the one in the story get away with rape all the time. It doesn't change whether or not he actually raped her, nor whether he will have to answer 'yes' in the future when asked if he has ever been arrested (and for what).
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:bang::bang::bang: :whoa:
 
Sorry @referee3 , but there's not a med school in the country that's going to touch this kid now... and for good reason. There may have not been evidence to convict, but performing BDSM without regard for sexual safety is a BIG no, no. He may have felt that he had consent to do what he did in this case, but it was his own fault for his own naivety.
 
WingedOx said:
Sorry @referee3 , but there's not a med school in the country that's going to touch this kid now... and for good reason. There may have not been evidence to convict, but performing BDSM without regard for sexual safety is a BIG no, no. He may have felt that he had consent to do what he did in this case, but it was his own fault for his own naivety.
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Cue, 3yrs down the line, the inevitable thread from Hossain "Help! Do I have to disclose my arrest even though I was not convicted of anything?" filled with him whining about how this incident that was 'totally unavoidable and not his fault' will end up ruining his life. :eyebrow::annoyed::yeahright:🙄+pity+
When that happens, can we plz just link back to here?

The bottom line is that med school admins don't require the same burden of proof that the court system does...they can afford to reject based on the unproven probability that the applicant is a rapist, especially when the alternative (that he's a selfish prick who doesn't bother to ensure the safety and consent of everyone involved in high-risk sexual relations with him) is, while possibly not criminal, just as distasteful. This kid is going to have a hell of a time keeping this under wraps while applying, and any school who stumbles onto it will likely stay as far away as possible.
 
medic86 said:
That's a TLDR of 50 shades (from what I've heard).
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Ugh trashy book. Even so, aspiring doctors like Hossain should be able to distinguish fantasy from reality. Just because women enjoy 50 Shades of Grey does not mean they would enjoy being raped in real life. Just because I enjoy Breaking Bad does not mean I want my husband to be a meth dealer.

jb94mg said:
Sometimes a convincing/eloquent lawyer is all you need to get acquitted, although my understanding is that this was just a preliminary hearing.
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Yes, and that's a shame. This girl when through all the right channels to report the assault, and was screwed by a terrible judge. Her name is going to be dragged through the dirt at UIC. She might even have to switch schools. I hope she emerges from all of this OK.

Spinach Dip said:
This is why you agree to a safe word before undertaking any sort of role play.
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Totally agree. But when there is no safe word, stop means STOP!
 
Chansey said:
Ugh trashy book. Even so, aspiring doctors like Hossain should be able to distinguish fantasy from reality. Just because women enjoy 50 Shades of Grey does not mean they would enjoy being raped in real life. Just because I enjoy Breaking Bad does not mean I want my husband to be a meth dealer.
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So many thumbs up 👍👍👍.
Well, 3 at least :laugh:


Chansey said:
Yes, and that's a shame. This girl when through all the right channels to report the assault, and was screwed by a terrible judge. Her name is going to be dragged through the dirt at UIC. She might even have to switch schools. I hope she emerges from all of this OK.
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Meh, seems average for the courts, not terrible. This is why people so often avoid going through 'all the right channels'.
Chansey said:
Totally agree. But when there is no safe word, stop means STOP!
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No & stop: the English language's default safe words. Not that hard, people, not that hard. I hope she does come out of this all right. It took a lot of courage to stand up and report/confront the situation, though, especially under the circumstances. She's strong, hopefully she's able to continue powering through.
 
Ismet said:
It's not uncommon for people to google applicants. He may have a bad time if he applies.
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I hope you're right, but how likely is it that adcoms are going to google his particular name? He is only 19, which means it will be a few years before he applies. By then, the attention surrounding the case will be gone. Medical schools get thousands of applicants a year, and adcoms are very busy people. They can't possibly google every applicant... How would they know to google him? Medical schools may never find out about this 🙁
 
Chansey said:
I hope you're right, but how likely is it that adcoms are going to google his particular name? He is only 19, which means it will be a few years before he applies. By then, the attention surrounding the case will be gone. Medical schools get thousands of applicants a year, and adcoms are very busy people. They can't possibly google every applicant... How would they know to google him? Medical schools may never find out about this 🙁
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A lot of schools ask if one has ever been arrested. If he simply (and truthfully) answers yes, then a quick google search of his name and "UIC" should yield all the info the adcoms need.
 
Chansey said:
I hope you're right, but how likely is it that adcoms are going to google his particular name? He is only 19, which means it will be a few years before he applies. By then, the attention surrounding the case will be gone. Medical schools get thousands of applicants a year, and adcoms are very busy people. They can't possibly google every applicant... How would they know to google him? Medical schools may never find out about this 🙁
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Many schools ask about arrests, not just convictions. :shrug:
I'm actually not sure how I feel about that in general...I think it's largely inappropriate and essentially shows that the schools are not willing to trust/respect the criminal justice system. However, given that it already happens, it's nice to know that d-bags like this get caught up in it, too. I would hope that situations like this are more why those questions exist than catching the kid who was arrested for a bit of pot and allowed to go on probation, with no charges filed if they straightened up.

Edit: damn, @aprimenumber beat me to it :laugh:
 
LChristmas said:
Even if he does not disclose the arrest on his application, the record will appear when the school does its criminal background check.
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...another thing that usually bothers me as being inappropriate, yet somehow I'm not feeling the sympathy this time. This kind of crap is what the overly-invasive checks are intended to flush out. I may still wish we could get rid of those checks, but while we have them, at least we will see fewer of this type of guy in school.

Though, honestly, I think we'd be better off fixing our criminal justice system than finding ways to ignore it. I think things would be better for victims of assault AND for alleged perps if the anonymity of both parties was protected, not just one, and if background checks respected things like innocent verdicts, pre-conviction probations, and juvenile offenses.
 
Regardless of this particular case, and whether or not you think the judge is crooked, I think the main issue is that ADCOMS are apparently able to discriminate against people who have been only accused and declared not guilty. What is the point of even having a legal system if you place zero trust in it? Doctors are always the first ones to complain about non-medical professionals dictating the rules of their job for them, so why so hypocritical in regards to legal professionals? The court system is apparently the best system we have, is it ethical to bring in your personal opinions on individual cases without the full evidence?
 
This is the problem with this series. On real BDSM you use safe words that are agreed upon before the play starts. No can mean yes but turnip means stop, for instance. ..not that I know anything about that.
 
mehc012 said:
That's how the court system works in rape cases...rape victims are to be shat on, not listened to. This is not news. It's why d-bags like the one in the story get away with rape all the time.
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While I agree with your general anger, I just wonder what are you suggesting would be a better alternative? Lowering the standard of evidence needed because of the particular moral reprehensibility of the crime? Seems like a slippery slope and totally against the fundamental ethics of the court system.
 
CaliforniaDreamer said:
Regardless of this particular case, and whether or not you think the judge is crooked, I think the main issue is that ADCOMS are apparently able to discriminate against people who have been only accused and declared not guilty. What is the point of even having a legal system if you place zero trust in it? Doctors are always the first ones to complain about non-medical professionals dictating the rules of their job for them, so why so hypocritical in regards to legal professionals? The court system is apparently the best system we have, is it ethical to bring in your personal opinions on individual cases without the full evidence?
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In this case, as I said, whether or not he's criminally guilty, he is undeniably morally negligent and irresponsible. I may not support sending him to jail on the given evidence, but from an adcom's perspective, I can see him being a bad bet no matter which version of the story you believe. If you believe her, he's a rapist. If you believe him, he's incapable of obtaining responsible consent, making expectations clear, and anticipating the needs or interpreting the reactions of the person he is responsible for the well-being of (even if she had agreed to bondage with no safeword, by being the active participant, he is taking responsibility for her state during their interaction). That's his best case scenario...so either way, yes, I support an adcom having reservations, because even the best case is very worrisome in someone who wishes to care for people, many of whom cannot advocate well for themselves.

Side notes on the rest:
This is a systemic problem that needs to be addressed, and soon. All of the uproar coming from multiple places makes it pretty clear that we do NOT, as a whole, seem to have much faith in our criminal justice system.
We do not trust them in instances of rape, and so we've started trying to make universities fill in for them.
We do not trust them in instances of police violence, and so we've started calling for federal overview.
We do not trust them not to be racist, and it's causing a crazy amount of tension nationwide.

To me, the solution is not to simply start blindly trusting them...there needs to be some sort of overhaul or reform. What kind, I don't know. But if you honestly ask me whether I feel comfortable simply trusting the courts or the police, I'd have to say no. No way. I do not go to them to ask for help, and I would not expect them to bring a criminal to justice. The best system we have is just not good enough. I don't trust it as an ethical standard. So where do we go from here?
 
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CaliforniaDreamer said:
While I agree with your general anger, I just wonder what are you suggesting would be a better alternative? Lowering the standard of evidence needed because of the particular moral reprehensibility of the crime? Seems like a slippery slope and totally against the fundamental ethics of the court system.
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We had a long and productive talk about this exact topic in the last rape thread...I'd suggest looking through the last few pages of
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...d-out-over-alleged-sexual-misconduct.1114473/
 
CaliforniaDreamer said:
Regardless of this particular case, and whether or not you think the judge is crooked, I think the main issue is that ADCOMS are apparently able to discriminate against people who have been only accused and declared not guilty. What is the point of even having a legal system if you place zero trust in it? Doctors are always the first ones to complain about non-medical professionals dictating the rules of their job for them, so why so hypocritical in regards to legal professionals? The court system is apparently the best system we have, is it ethical to bring in your personal opinions on individual cases without the full evidence?
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I'm glad we have people who believe that "not being a convicted criminal" is the ethical threshold for which medical schools should make judgment calls. :thinking:

"All that really matters is becoming a doctor," he said. "I have one goal in mind, and that's what I'll set my heart to."
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ok guys. Someone find his SDN handle, because you know he has one.
 
Our legal system prefers that innocent people remain out of jail at the expense of letting criminals walk free. It is designed to protect the accused, not the victim. It is not perfect, but I certainly stand behind the premise of keeping innocent people out of prison.

I also support people's right to decide who they want representing their company/medical school/etc.
 
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LizzyM said:
"I was saying, 'No, stop,' shaking my head from side to side," she said.

"He said, 'I want to see how much you can take,'" she testified. "He said, 'I want to see you cry.' " "
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This is beyond creepy.
 
WingedOx said:
Doesn't matter if she was into it or not, she said "stop".
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...which is why I was saying she wasn't into it. I didn't mean 'aroused by it', I meant 'it was what she wanted'. Sorry for the confusion.

I was trying to separate 'doing things without consent' from ' 'into something most people would not consent to (but only participating with a partner who had consented)'. So if the guy was into hitting the girl with a belt until she cried, and did so safely, with a girl who also wanted that, creepy wouldn't apply. So to me, the creepiness wasn't so much what he said as the fact that he was willing to impose what he wanted over what she wanted. Again, didn't express that well, so sorry for the confusion.
 
After reading the article, it's a pretty clear case of rape. They weren't roleplaying, there were no rules established. He deliberately made the sexual encounter painful and uncomfortable for her specifically so that she wanted it to stop and he no longer had consent, after which he could rape her. This wasn't acting out a rape fantasy, he straight up made her not want to have sex with him so that he could act on his desire to rape a girl against her will.

I can't even believe, with the testimony given by both sides, that he's getting away with this ****.
 
referee3 said:
There is no proof she is telling the truth. There have been numerous recent incidents where college females have falsely accused others of rape and been discovered to have been lying. It's a shame it happens but the more they cry wolf the less people will listen.
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So you're basically saying that because some women have lied about rape in the past, all women accusing men of rape are liars by default?

Congratulations, between this and your other posts, you might have officially made the most horrible comments I've ever seen on SDN. And I've been in the SPF, so that's saying something.
 
He will not get into any medical school. Nobody will want to be associated with this ****stain. He's probably reading this thread lmao. Good luck being taken seriously in life when people google your name and the first thing that shows up is 'rape'
 
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No conviction, no record.

cookiemonsters said:
He will not get into any medical school. Nobody will want to be associated with this ****stain. He's probably reading this thread lmao. Good luck being taken seriously in life when people google your name and the first thing that shows up is 'rape'
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LChristmas said:
Or at least each interviewer googles the handful of people that they interview each cycle.
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That's pretty much what I'd assume. Like, after you interviewed someone but before they ended up getting recommended for acceptance you'd do a quick "John Smith Generic University" Google stalk on them to look for any huge red flags. First page for this guy, for most of the rest of his life, will likely be this story.
 
Mad Jack said:
That's pretty much what I'd assume. Like, after you interviewed someone but before they ended up getting recommended for acceptance you'd do a quick "John Smith Generic University" Google stalk on them to look for any huge red flags. First page for this guy, for most of the rest of his life, will likely be this story.
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Yep, googling Mohammad Hossain, 8 of the 9 first page hits are about the (alleged) rape. The ninth is his Facebook page.
 
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