Pre-meds: Who is YOUR hero?

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bigred001 said:
As the first person in my family's history to show any interest in science, I really wish this phrase wasn't used.

If it makes you feel any better . . . I'm only the second person in my family's history to show any interest in science.

And I'm definitely the first person in the history of my VERY extended family to EVER go into medicine.

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Dr. Linus Pauling
 
Callogician said:
Despite popular belief, Jesus of Nazareth never actually existed.

The myth of Jesus Christ in its modern form was described first by Mark after the year 70. We know that it was after the year 70 because Mark mentions the destruction of the hebrew temple which can be accurately dated by historians. All of the other gospels are clearly derived from mark. The connection between the supposed death of Jesus and the gospel of Mark is Paul the apostle (formerly Saul of Tarsus). Saul wrote over 80,000 words about Jesus christ, but his story isn't what we would traditionally call the story of Jesus. Saul doesn't mention the virgin mary, Pontius Pilate, etc...and only mentions the capture, crucifixion, and the ressurection of Jesus Christ. Additionally, Saul places Jesus in a mythical realm (rather than on earth). There are other inconsistencies in the development of the Jesus myth. For instance, in the gospel of Peter, it says that Harrod had Jesus killed (Harrod dates before the putative birth of Jesus). It seems that this could not be a matter of such diversity if Jesus was an individual who recently lived.

Additionally, the Myth of Jesus displays many elements which appear to be derived from other myths. The following is a list of 22 items which Lord Raglan (a folklorist) regards as the paragon of the "hero story":

1) The hero's mother is a royal virgin.
2) His father is a king and
3) often a near relative of the mother, but
4) the circumstances of his conception are unusual, and
5) he is also reputed to be the son of a god
6) at birth an attempt is made, usually by his father or maternal grandfather, 7) to kill him, but
8) He is spirited away, and
*9) reared by foster-parents in a far country.
10) We are told nothing of his childhood, but
11) on reaching manhood he returns or goes to his future kingdom.
*12) After a victory over the king and or giant, dragon, or wild beast
*13) he marries a princess, often the daughter of his predecessor and
14) becomes king.
15) For a time he reigns uneventfully and
16) prescribes laws but
17) later loses favor with the gods and or his people and
18) is driven from from the throne and the city after which
19) He meets with a mysterious death
20) often at the top of a hill.
21) His children, if any, do not succeed him.
22) His body is not buried, but nevertheless
he has one or more holy sepulchres.

The following are scores which different heroes receive (I have taken the liberty of placing bolded asterices behind the statements which do not apply to Jesus).

Oedipus scores 21
Theseus scores 20
Moses scores 20
King Arthur scores 19
Jesus of Nazareth scores 19
Dionysus scores 19
Romulus scores 18
Perseus scores 18
Hercules scores 17
Llew Llaw Gyffes scores 17
Bellerophon scores 16
Gilgamesh scores 15
Jason scores 15
Mwindo scores 14
Robin Hood scores 13
Pelops scores 13
James T. Kirk scores 13
Sigurd scores 11.

Repeating elements are common in folklore, and although this is not a scientific study, it seems unlikely that the story of Jesus would show such strong homology to other myths if Jesus were a true historical character. There are other more specific homologies (such as the visit by magi from the east, the betrayal for 30 pieces of silver, and birth on December 25th)-though these similarities are seen in comparitively few hero stories.

Interesting, the similarity of the Jesus story to that of other Pagan gods was actually used rhetorically in proslytising:

"When we say that Jesus Christ was produced without sexual union, was crucified and died, and rose again, and ascended to heaven, we propound nothing new or different from what you believe regarding those whom you call the suns of Jupiter." -Justin Martyr, church father

I hope that you found my discussion interesting and apologize if any of you found my challenge to be offensive. In my opinion, it is important to have a free exchange of ideas between individuals in disagreement so that they might clash and gain wisdom from each other. I admit that theology and folklare are not within my field of expertise, and I am waiting patiently for conformation or disapproval of these ideas. Certainly, it is possible that I have misanalyzed the evidence and am completely wrong. However, I am confident that we all share the common ground of the desire to seek truth and avoid falsity...and that the best way to do this is to carefully analyse the evidence while avoiding bias. Thus, we should be able to have a calm, friendly, and informative discussion.

Much of what I have written is derived from a movie entitled "The God who wasn't there." For a more general and complete argument against the historical existence of Jesus Christ, I would encourage you to check out this link:

http://www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm


Jesus did and DOES exist.

Debate if you want, but do it somewhere else. Let people have their heroes.
 
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Callogician said:
I admit that theology and folklare are not within my field of expertise, and I am waiting patiently for conformation or disapproval of these ideas. ]

I really feel sorry for ya'll non-believers... eternal damnation in a lake of fire is one hell of a way to be proven wrong (no pun intended :laugh: )
 
WhatUpDoc! said:
I really feel sorry for ya'll non-believers... eternal damnation in a lake of fire is one hell of a way to be proven wrong (no pun intended :laugh: )


Let's try to respect each others religious beliefs and stop turning all our preallo threads into flame wars. This statement quoted above is equally offensive as the one stating jesus didn't exist. There are others on here, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, and so forth who would take great offense to someone trying to tell them what to believe.


So please refrain from making statements like the one you made above.

Also, to the person who insulted the Christians on here, please refrain from making those statements too.

This is not a place for religious debate. Take it to the Everyone forum if you wish to do so. I for one am getting sick of seeing that infiltrate the preallo board.
 
I shouldn't be writing sappy stuff like this now that all my recc letters are written, but I'd say my advisor is my hero... I came from a really bad family background, and at one point I was going to drop pre-med because I was scared I couldn't cut it... She encouraged me to keep at it and helped me set up a study schedule for the MCAT. When I was too short on money to buy groceries, she and her husband bought some for me... When I didn't have a place to go on a school break, they let me stay at their house... When I had pneumonia, they insisted that I stay at their house... When I was hurting for money, they had me babysit, catsit and dogsit to help make ends meet... She's a brilliant professor, possibly the best I ever had, but what's more important is that she cared about me when it seemed like not a whole lot of adults did... I hope when I grow up I can be just like her :love:
 
Saluki said:
I shouldn't be writing sappy stuff like this now that all my recc letters are written, but I'd say my advisor is my hero... I came from a really bad family background, and at one point I was going to drop pre-med because I was scared I couldn't cut it... She encouraged me to keep at it and helped me set up a study schedule for the MCAT. When I was too short on money to buy groceries, she and her husband bought some for me... When I didn't have a place to go on a school break, they let me stay at their house... When I had pneumonia, they insisted that I stay at their house... When I was hurting for money, they had me babysit, catsit and dogsit to help make ends meet... She's a brilliant professor, possibly the best I ever had, but what's more important is that she cared about me when it seemed like not a whole lot of adults did... I hope when I grow up I can be just like her :love:


This is not sappy. I think these are the true heroes in life, not some celebrity stars. The ones closest to your heart and who've been there for you and the sources of courage be it religion or family/friends or a combo of both are where the truest heroes are.
 
gujuDoc said:
This is not sappy. I think these are the true heroes in life, not some celebrity stars. The ones closest to your heart and who've been there for you and the sources of courage be it religion or family/friends or a combo of both are where the truest heroes are.

I totally agree! Though I think some people on this thread might argue that Chuck Norris is in fact the biggest true hero ;)
 
gujuDoc said:
Ewwwwwwwwwwwww

No seriously, even considering all the "disgusting things" on his show; his brutal honesty and refusal to bend or compromise his principles (unique principles, but principles nonetheless) for any company or agency is very impressive. One might not a agree with his set of values and morals, but he revolutionized his industry and continues to innovate; I would be ecstatic to accomplish half the things in medicine that he has in radio.
 
I have a lot of them but here are descriptions of a few (just the doctors).

George Tiller, M.D. Wichita, KS. Does abortions. Sees people no one else will see, at advanced stages of pregnancy, with every kind of horror story you can imagine - picture the worst possible case, then multiply it by a factor of 10. Regularly reduces and sometimes entirely waives his fees for humanitarian reasons - has been known to give his staff his personal credit card and tell them to go get decent clothes, food and a nice hotel room for a patient and her children. Was shot in both arms by a psycho bitch who was heeding the call of the Army of God to "take off the thumbs" of providers so they had to stop doing their work. Got bandaged up and went back to work the same day. His staff are routinely harassed and threatened everywhere they go, and though some leave because of it, the fact that most stay shows you how much of a family they are (and of course, when someone does leave the antis hoot that they must have "seen the light"). There are three mottoes in his clinic: Attitude is Everything, Justice Love Compassion & Respect, and Trust Women :D

Barnett Slepian, M.D.(deceased), Buffalo, NY. Was murdered at home, in front of his family, in 1998, by the high-powered rifle of an anti-abortion activist. Had written a letter to the editor the year before, stating that if the city of Buffalo did not step in and deal with threatening protesters, if they did not realize the fanatical edge of those he had to deal with every day, they cannot claim to be surprised if he someday wound up getting murdered.

John Britton, M.D.(deceased) Pensacola, FL. Was shot as he arrived at work. He came to Pensacola after the murder of Dr. David Gunn (see below) when the clinic didn't have anyone else willing to provide abortion services. He knew he was at risk and tried to minimize it, but as an older doctor he remembered the dying women in ED "abortion wards" before Roe v. Wade and knew that somebody needed to provide this service. He was wearing a bulletproof vest but Paul Hill shot him in the head. His ex-army escort/bodyguard was also killed.

David Gunn, M.D.(deceased) Killed in 1993, on March 10th (which is now the National Day of Appreciation for Abortion Providers). Used to play Tom Petty's "I Won't Back Down" and dance a jig on the balcony of his clinic when his protesters would get too loud or abusive, making the patients laugh.

Garson Romalis, M.D. Canadian abortion provider. Was shot while eating breakfast (by the same man who killed Dr. Slepian) and nearly died. After a long recovery he returned to work. A few years later he was stabbed while running an errand in a pharmacy. He is still working.

R. Soloway, M.D. (Retired) Was willing to help a scared 14-year-old who'd made one huge mistake but wasn't ready to be a mom. His manner was a bit rough, but I now realize it was a blessing that he was there at all. I never got a chance to thank him.

Dave G., M.D. I worked for him for three years. He showed me that you can be a doctor and remain humble and humane. His kindness, humour, and wisdom inspire me still.

There are so many more, so many stories of everyday heroism that I have had the privilege of being a part of in my work. Abortion providers are getting older. I believe their average age is now late-50s. In 10 or 20 years, they will almost all be retired. I figure if all goes well, I'll be done residency by then.
 
Thundrstorm said:
Jesus is my hero too.


The one medical professional I always respected growing up was Ben Carson. I also really respect the work of Paul Farmer
.

Paul Farmer

Mountains Beyond Mountains is one of the best medical novels ever. And it's interesting because the author, Tracey Kidder, is someone who usually writes military material.

Interesting also is some of the religous themes that are present throughout the book as well.
 
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KAI1927 said:
No seriously, even considering all the "disgusting things" on his show; his brutal honesty and refusal to bend or compromise his principles (unique principles, but principles nonetheless) for any company or agency is very impressive. One might not a agree with his set of values and morals, but he revolutionized his industry and continues to innovate; I would be ecstatic to accomplish half the things in medicine that he has in radio.


Ok, I'll agree that the bolded is admirable, but his disgusting morals and principles just grosses me out sooooooooo much.
 
CatsandCradles said:
Paul Farmer

Mountains Beyond Mountains is one of the best medical novels ever. And it's interesting because the author, Tracey Kidder, is someone who usually writes military material.

Interesting also is some of the religous themes that are present throughout the book as well.

You might also enjoy Dr.Paul Brand's Ten Fingers for God- lots of religious themes as well as tons of stuff about his personal journey to become a surgeon doing leprosy work in India...
 
Saluki said:
You might also enjoy Dr.Paul Brand's Ten Fingers for God- lots of religious themes as well as tons of stuff about his personal journey to become a surgeon doing leprosy work in India...

Thank you, I'll definantly look into it.
 
i am all for philosophical arguments about religion and jesus being true or not, as i have not fully made my decision, but more evidence needs to be brought up and verified as opposed to The DaVinvi Code or Holy Blood Holy Grail. I am not willing to just say, wow, everything taught for 2000 years is crap, lets through it out the window. Again, i agree with the parallels of other myths, which is why i haven't made my decision, but if others want to believe in Jesus, than I hope that people follow as well as they can. and that goes for any religion. Faith is not a bad thing.

And The DaVinci Code is a great FICTION novel. As well as Dan Brown's other books.
 
CatsandCradles said:
Paul Farmer

Mountains Beyond Mountains is one of the best medical novels ever. And it's interesting because the author, Tracey Kidder, is someone who usually writes military material.

Interesting also is some of the religous themes that are present throughout the book as well.


Paul Farmer is going to be leaving HMS to join UMiami's International Medical Program!!!!!!!!!! :D :D :D :D

I'm excited about that as you can tell, cuz its a step up for my second favorite Fl. med school after USF. :laugh: :laugh: :p
 
gujuDoc said:
Ok, I'll agree that the bolded is admirable, but his disgusting morals and principles just grosses me out sooooooooo much.

I can definately respect your aprehension, you ability to recognize his accomplishments while personally disagreeing with the content shows a great deal of benevolance and maturity. These qualities will serve you well as a physician.
 
KAI1927 said:
I can definately respect your aprehension, you ability to recognize his accomplishments while personally disagreeing with the content shows a great deal of benevolance and maturity. These qualities will serve you well as a physician.




"He'll help you save more, spend less, and avoid getting ripped off"...Clark Howard is my hero (anyone from the ATL knows him)
 
My Pop. Guy got work ethics like nobody's business.
 
zoidberg.jpg
 
Callogician said:
Despite popular belief, Jesus of Nazareth never actually existed.

The myth of Jesus Christ in its modern form was described first by Mark after the year 70. We know that it was after the year 70 because Mark mentions the destruction of the hebrew temple which can be accurately dated by historians. All of the other gospels are clearly derived from mark. The connection between the supposed death of Jesus and the gospel of Mark is Paul the apostle (formerly Saul of Tarsus). Saul wrote over 80,000 words about Jesus christ, but his story isn't what we would traditionally call the story of Jesus. Saul doesn't mention the virgin mary, Pontius Pilate, etc...and only mentions the capture, crucifixion, and the ressurection of Jesus Christ. Additionally, Saul places Jesus in a mythical realm (rather than on earth). There are other inconsistencies in the development of the Jesus myth. For instance, in the gospel of Peter, it says that Harrod had Jesus killed (Harrod dates before the putative birth of Jesus). It seems that this could not be a matter of such diversity if Jesus was an individual who recently lived.

Additionally, the Myth of Jesus displays many elements which appear to be derived from other myths. The following is a list of 22 items which Lord Raglan (a folklorist) regards as the paragon of the "hero story":

1) The hero's mother is a royal virgin.
2) His father is a king and
3) often a near relative of the mother, but
4) the circumstances of his conception are unusual, and
5) he is also reputed to be the son of a god
6) at birth an attempt is made, usually by his father or maternal grandfather, 7) to kill him, but
8) He is spirited away, and
*9) reared by foster-parents in a far country.
10) We are told nothing of his childhood, but
11) on reaching manhood he returns or goes to his future kingdom.
*12) After a victory over the king and or giant, dragon, or wild beast
*13) he marries a princess, often the daughter of his predecessor and
14) becomes king.
15) For a time he reigns uneventfully and
16) prescribes laws but
17) later loses favor with the gods and or his people and
18) is driven from from the throne and the city after which
19) He meets with a mysterious death
20) often at the top of a hill.
21) His children, if any, do not succeed him.
22) His body is not buried, but nevertheless
he has one or more holy sepulchres.

The following are scores which different heroes receive (I have taken the liberty of placing bolded asterices behind the statements which do not apply to Jesus).

Oedipus scores 21
Theseus scores 20
Moses scores 20
King Arthur scores 19
Jesus of Nazareth scores 19
Dionysus scores 19
Romulus scores 18
Perseus scores 18
Hercules scores 17
Llew Llaw Gyffes scores 17
Bellerophon scores 16
Gilgamesh scores 15
Jason scores 15
Mwindo scores 14
Robin Hood scores 13
Pelops scores 13
James T. Kirk scores 13
Sigurd scores 11.

Repeating elements are common in folklore, and although this is not a scientific study, it seems unlikely that the story of Jesus would show such strong homology to other myths if Jesus were a true historical character. There are other more specific homologies (such as the visit by magi from the east, the betrayal for 30 pieces of silver, and birth on December 25th)-though these similarities are seen in comparitively few hero stories.

Interesting, the similarity of the Jesus story to that of other Pagan gods was actually used rhetorically in proslytising:

"When we say that Jesus Christ was produced without sexual union, was crucified and died, and rose again, and ascended to heaven, we propound nothing new or different from what you believe regarding those whom you call the suns of Jupiter." -Justin Martyr, church father

I hope that you found my discussion interesting and apologize if any of you found my challenge to be offensive. In my opinion, it is important to have a free exchange of ideas between individuals in disagreement so that they might clash and gain wisdom from each other. I admit that theology and folklare are not within my field of expertise, and I am waiting patiently for conformation or disapproval of these ideas. Certainly, it is possible that I have misanalyzed the evidence and am completely wrong. However, I am confident that we all share the common ground of the desire to seek truth and avoid falsity...and that the best way to do this is to carefully analyse the evidence while avoiding bias. Thus, we should be able to have a calm, friendly, and informative discussion.

Much of what I have written is derived from a movie entitled "The God who wasn't there." For a more general and complete argument against the historical existence of Jesus Christ, I would encourage you to check out this link:

http://www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm

"The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

I have a book that you should try reading sometime. It's called The Bible. Lord knows I need to spend more time reading it. Jesus Christ is not someone that one should believe in based on hard evidence. He still loves you regardless of rather you believe in him or not. That being said, this is not the place for a discussion like this. I hate it when people try to change the flow of a thread with stunts like this. Your argument is not even related to the OP's response. It's quite trollish.


Sorry about the Sunday school lesson.
 
Heroes:

Ani DiFranco, I like that she speaks her mind.
Julie Munger (one badass river guide woman with a ton of first descents under her belt).
Bettina Aptheker (one of the 4 leaders of the free speech movement in Berkeley, and a friend/mentor of mine).
Crystal Sunshine Peace Dunbar, a friend sitting next to me on the couch who wants to be my hero (okay, just today, gorgeous).
Lance, for sure.
Louise Teal, one of the first women GC guides.
My mom. :D
 
Saluki said:
You might also enjoy Dr.Paul Brand's Ten Fingers for God- lots of religious themes as well as tons of stuff about his personal journey to become a surgeon doing leprosy work in India...
oh weird, my mom knew him!

paul farmer is amazing. so is ani difranco. and I don't share his beliefs, but c.s. lewis had one hell of a mind. his autobiography is really good.
 
Dr. David Moss, MD

Pediatric Neurosurgeon in Phoenix Arizona. Took my case in 96, when the surgery was still 'experimental' and other world class neurosurgery gods wouldn't touch me because I was 'too high functioning, and my liver enzymes weren't that bad yet'. :rolleyes:
Dr. Moss cured my epilepsy, and gave me the life I live today. (turns out, by today's standards, I had a standard temporal lobe epilepsy, one that the other neurosurgery gods would operate on in a flash).

Dr. Moss is a former college basketball center, rides a harley, and doesn't care what anyone else thinks, but only what's best for his patients. He even took the extra time to carefully part my hair for both surgeries instead of shaving it all off...something that's very important to me since I was 15 at the time.

Sorry to be so sappy, but Dr. Moss is my hero.
 
trustwomen said:
I have a lot of them but here are descriptions of a few (just the doctors).

George Tiller, M.D. Wichita, KS. Does abortions. Sees people no one else will see, at advanced stages of pregnancy, with every kind of horror story you can imagine - picture the worst possible case, then multiply it by a factor of 10. Regularly reduces and sometimes entirely waives his fees for humanitarian reasons - has been known to give his staff his personal credit card and tell them to go get decent clothes, food and a nice hotel room for a patient and her children. Was shot in both arms by a psycho bitch who was heeding the call of the Army of God to "take off the thumbs" of providers so they had to stop doing their work. Got bandaged up and went back to work the same day. His staff are routinely harassed and threatened everywhere they go, and though some leave because of it, the fact that most stay shows you how much of a family they are (and of course, when someone does leave the antis hoot that they must have "seen the light"). There are three mottoes in his clinic: Attitude is Everything, Justice Love Compassion & Respect, and Trust Women :D

Barnett Slepian, M.D.(deceased), Buffalo, NY. Was murdered at home, in front of his family, in 1998, by the high-powered rifle of an anti-abortion activist. Had written a letter to the editor the year before, stating that if the city of Buffalo did not step in and deal with threatening protesters, if they did not realize the fanatical edge of those he had to deal with every day, they cannot claim to be surprised if he someday wound up getting murdered.

John Britton, M.D.(deceased) Pensacola, FL. Was shot as he arrived at work. He came to Pensacola after the murder of Dr. David Gunn (see below) when the clinic didn't have anyone else willing to provide abortion services. He knew he was at risk and tried to minimize it, but as an older doctor he remembered the dying women in ED "abortion wards" before Roe v. Wade and knew that somebody needed to provide this service. He was wearing a bulletproof vest but Paul Hill shot him in the head. His ex-army escort/bodyguard was also killed.

David Gunn, M.D.(deceased) Killed in 1993, on March 10th (which is now the National Day of Appreciation for Abortion Providers). Used to play Tom Petty's "I Won't Back Down" and dance a jig on the balcony of his clinic when his protesters would get too loud or abusive, making the patients laugh.

Garson Romalis, M.D. Canadian abortion provider. Was shot while eating breakfast (by the same man who killed Dr. Slepian) and nearly died. After a long recovery he returned to work. A few years later he was stabbed while running an errand in a pharmacy. He is still working.

R. Soloway, M.D. (Retired) Was willing to help a scared 14-year-old who'd made one huge mistake but wasn't ready to be a mom. His manner was a bit rough, but I now realize it was a blessing that he was there at all. I never got a chance to thank him.

Dave G., M.D. I worked for him for three years. He showed me that you can be a doctor and remain humble and humane. His kindness, humour, and wisdom inspire me still.

There are so many more, so many stories of everyday heroism that I have had the privilege of being a part of in my work. Abortion providers are getting older. I believe their average age is now late-50s. In 10 or 20 years, they will almost all be retired. I figure if all goes well, I'll be done residency by then.
I have to give these docs tons of credit. This is what scares me about religious fanaticism and religion in general. People tend to lose common sense when the word GOD is used. This is a great example, so is 911.
 
Jesus, whose life and love for all is amazing. I hope to honor Him in all I do. :)
 
Trustwomen,
You rock. You are my new hero for posting that info. I have a difficult time with people who are so fanatical, they will kill others in the name of their religion, no matter what that religion is.
Nic

PS my other hero is the dude who started the "Flying Spaghetti Monster" thing.
As a scientist, I have to disagree with teaching intelligent design as "science"- philosophy, sure, but science, No.

www.venganza.org
 
Ben Carson and the surgeon who did great work on my hand after I came back to life whose name I dont know. I was just a baby. Think about it all the time when I look at my left hand.
 
I think the wireless phone is right up there with all these animate heros, simply because it keeps us connected. And if you use vonage, it keeps you connected for less.
 
CTSballer11 said:
I have to give these docs tons of credit. This is what scares me about religious fanaticism and religion in general. People tend to lose common sense when the word GOD is used. This is a great example, so is 911.

Exactly, and the irony of it all is that, for Christians, all sins are equal in the eyes of God.

So anyone who murders an abortion doctor is placing him/herself in the exact same category as the one in which he/she places abortion doctor.

I always picture God crying when something like this happens.
 
browniegirl86 said:
Exactly, and the irony of it all is that, for Christians, all sins are equal in the eyes of God.

So anyone who murders an abortion doctor is placing him/herself in the exact same category as the one in which he/she places abortion doctor.

I always picture God crying when something like this happens.

WORD. :thumbup:
 
Definitely my Mom. She's brilliant but became a teacher instead of going to law school so she would have the time to raise me and my bro as a single parent.
 
My Dad..... who has been calling me Dr. "my real first name here" since I was a little kid, for subconciously planting the urge to become a doctor in my head.

He's done everything imaginable for me since I was a little kid, including not flinch when I told him I wanted to write novels for a living (before i decided to apply to med school) He's a math genius (smarter at everything than i'll ever be) and used to quiz me on square roots in the car (its still how we bond). When my car broke down my junior year when i was taking calculus at a community college twenty minutes from my apartment, he drove to get me, took me to class and actually took the class with me!!!! I know it sounds sort of weird, but it was incredibly sweet. He was everybody's favorite tutor. :love: If I can be a quarter as good and caring a person as he is I'll be set...
 
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