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Sparda29

En Taro Adun
10+ Year Member
Mar 25, 2008
9,271
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Pharmacist
I noticed that it's getting pretty damn boring in here, so here's a debate.

What do you guys think about autonomy in health care? Who does it belong to, the patient or the health care provider?

My personal belief is that the autonomy should belong to the health care provider and not the patient. Who is more educated, the patient or the health care provider?

PS: Let's not turn this into a ****ting war until like the 8th page.
 

Travisgee

Coast to Coast
10+ Year Member
Aug 4, 2008
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Austin, Texas
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I really dont understand the topic either, and specifically how your using the word autonomy with respect to an institution like health care providers.
 
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kittycatblues

10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Sep 1, 2006
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Who's the boss? The patient or the physician? If the patient is sick, and treatment options are there but risky, who is the boss in what happens?
Um, the patient is in charge of their own health. The physician can present them with the best options, but it is up to the patient to decide what is best for themself.
 

tahi193

10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Apr 14, 2008
179
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I would say there is no "boss." Aren't physicians and patients meant to work collaboratively to come up with a solution that is both agreeable with the patient and clinically viable in the doctor's point of view? The patient has the right to refuse treatment and the doctor has the right to refuse to administer a course of treatment that he/she finds too risky. However, ultimately, it is the patient's health that is in question and they have the last word. Hopefully, the patient has enough sense to chose a competent doctor and to follow that doctor's advice.
 

alenadoma

10+ Year Member
Jun 3, 2008
787
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Pharmacy Student
Right now the patient. I blame it on lawyers and online sites that give them awnsers which they dont understand.
I agree with you. Patients come to the pharmacy all the time talking about some drug that they read about or saw online, but they don't know anything about it..possible side effects, etc.
However..I do think that patients should be well informed so that they are able to make their own decisions regarding their healthcare. There are so many patients who have had bypasses, stents, pacemakers put in just because they were advised to do so by their doctor. The unfortunate part is that some of the time, these invasive procedures don't actually prolong the patient's life at all.
As much as I don't like to think it, it almost seems like some doctors use their patients' lack of knowledge to their advantage.
 

Artful Dodger

Membership Revoked
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Aug 12, 2007
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I agree with you. Patients come to the pharmacy all the time talking about some drug that they read about or saw online, but they don't know anything about it..possible side effects, etc.
However..I do think that patients should be well informed so that they are able to make their own decisions regarding their healthcare. There are so many patients who have had bypasses, stents, pacemakers put in just because they were advised to do so by their doctor. The unfortunate part is that some of the time, these invasive procedures don't actually prolong the patient's life at all.
As much as I don't like to think it, it almost seems like some doctors use their patients' lack of knowledge to their advantage.
hahaha! Like my mom's auto mechanic.

I think a Pharmacy-related issue is should Pharmacists have the right to have patients visit them & prescribe medication?

I'm not saying DIRECTLY out of Pharmacy School can a Pharmacist do this...but do you think a Pharmacist is well-prepared to handle a residency in family medicine with MDs? or should there be an exclusive pharmacy school residency for family medicine? haha show me how naive i am...im eager to know where people have went with this idea.
 

JeremyE30

Accepted Pharmacy Student
10+ Year Member
Apr 1, 2008
127
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I think with proper certification in specific areas that pharmacists should be able to extend their role beyond a dispenser. Not necessarily a full on residency, but certification in certain areas that could bring more of a clinical approach to a retail pharmacy. It would be cheaper overall for the patient and for healthcare if pharmacists could provide more basic screening and therapy services.

The MDs don't like people treading on their turf, but they seem to be doing a bad job at stopping it. Look at the whole DNP (doctor of nursing) crap, MDs aren't really stopping them from what they are trying to do, which is eliminate the primary care physician.
 

medicalCPA

Actually, it's medicalCPA, PhD now
Moderator Emeritus
10+ Year Member
Mar 26, 2007
1,841
233
NYC, Baby!
Status
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I think with proper certification in specific areas that pharmacists should be able to extend their role beyond a dispenser. Not necessarily a full on residency, but certification in certain areas that could bring more of a clinical approach to a retail pharmacy. It would be cheaper overall for the patient and for healthcare if pharmacists could provide more basic screening and therapy services.

The MDs don't like people treading on their turf, but they seem to be doing a bad job at stopping it. Look at the whole DNP (doctor of nursing) crap, MDs aren't really stopping them from what they are trying to do, which is eliminate the primary care physician.
From what I gather, there is a growing shortage of primary care physicians. Since there aren't enough primary care doctors, someone has to fill that role.
 

JeremyE30

Accepted Pharmacy Student
10+ Year Member
Apr 1, 2008
127
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Pre-Pharmacy
From what I gather, there is a growing shortage of primary care physicians. Since there aren't enough primary care doctors, someone has to fill that role.
How about primary care doctors? Why don't we make more primary care physicians instead of creating new DNP schools and recruiting nurses to act like doctors.

There is a shortage of nurses also, so it doesn't make much sense to turn them into "Dr"s (loosely used) and decrease the number of nurses. Nurses do not have a medical background, and their whole model does not work as a physician. Some of the DNP programs are part-time and give you clinical hours from work experience. Not the type of education I would like for a person that is diagnosing patients and potentially missing countless conditions that are beyond their realm of education and understanding until the condition is more advanced.
 

medicalCPA

Actually, it's medicalCPA, PhD now
Moderator Emeritus
10+ Year Member
Mar 26, 2007
1,841
233
NYC, Baby!
Status
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How about primary care doctors? Why don't we make more primary care physicians instead of creating new DNP schools and recruiting nurses to act like doctors.

There is a shortage of nurses also, so it doesn't make much sense to turn them into "Dr"s (loosely used) and decrease the number of nurses. Nurses do not have a medical background, and their whole model does not work as a physician. Some of the DNP programs are part-time and give you clinical hours from work experience. Not the type of education I would like for a person that is diagnosing patients and potentially missing countless conditions that are beyond their realm of education and understanding until the condition is more advanced.
Fair enough.
 

Sparda29

En Taro Adun
10+ Year Member
Mar 25, 2008
9,271
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New York, New York
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Pharmacist
I think some doctors like educated patients and others don't. I went to the doctor's last week for a suspected upper respiratory tract infection, he asked me what I do and I said I'm in pharmacy school.

He actually asked me for my opinion on what he should prescribe, I went with Levaquin (3rd gen flouroquinolone, used primarily in URI), he decided on going with ZPak (Azithromycin - Macrolide).

From what I learned in class for community acquired pneumonia, I understood that it is supposed to be either a respiratory flouroquinolone(3rd gen), or a combination of a penicillin and a macrolide.

He diagnosed me with acute bacterial bronchitis, which I haven't learned about yet, but I would expect to be similar to community acquired pneumonia?

So what happens a week later, I'm still coughing. This is most likely viral bronchitis.
 

Sparda29

En Taro Adun
10+ Year Member
Mar 25, 2008
9,271
1,274
33
New York, New York
Status
Pharmacist
How about primary care doctors? Why don't we make more primary care physicians instead of creating new DNP schools and recruiting nurses to act like doctors.

There is a shortage of nurses also, so it doesn't make much sense to turn them into "Dr"s (loosely used) and decrease the number of nurses. Nurses do not have a medical background, and their whole model does not work as a physician. Some of the DNP programs are part-time and give you clinical hours from work experience. Not the type of education I would like for a person that is diagnosing patients and potentially missing countless conditions that are beyond their realm of education and understanding until the condition is more advanced.
I heard some rumor about nursing possibly having a doctorate degree. WTF? A Doctorate in Nursing?
 

alenadoma

10+ Year Member
Jun 3, 2008
787
0
Status
Pharmacy Student
I think some doctors like educated patients and others don't. I went to the doctor's last week for a suspected upper respiratory tract infection, he asked me what I do and I said I'm in pharmacy school.

He actually asked me for my opinion on what he should prescribe, I went with Levaquin (3rd gen flouroquinolone, used primarily in URI), he decided on going with ZPak (Azithromycin - Macrolide).

From what I learned in class for community acquired pneumonia, I understood that it is supposed to be either a respiratory flouroquinolone(3rd gen), or a combination of a penicillin and a macrolide.

He diagnosed me with acute bacterial bronchitis, which I haven't learned about yet, but I would expect to be similar to community acquired pneumonia?

So what happens a week later, I'm still coughing. This is most likely viral bronchitis.
Feel better!! I'm coughing too, and I have an interview tomorrow!
 
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