Preceptors, why did u create this rotation if you ....

[TianjinNVhai]

Why in the world did u sign up to be someone else's "preceptor", if you are just planning to spend 0 minutes teaching them?
I'm on the second week of my hospital rotation right now, my preceptor spent 20 minutes giving me a tour of the pharmacy and went over the list full of presentations for me to work on. AND THAT WAS IT. Every single day, I came into work, work on my presentations and projects. Occasionally, I would have a tech walking up to my desk and goes " hey, you super busy right now, you care to do XXXXX(AKS shXt she's too lazy to do herself) for us?" and then she stepped out for her snack break.
My preceptor, didn't care to teach me anything clinical or useful as a pharmacist, I feel like this whole rotation is just a huge waste of my time, I'm not learning anything.
If you do not want to spend the time to teach, do not take me as a student. You potentially costed that student a chance to have an otherwise really good rotation which they could learn a lot from.

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[CynicalIntern]

There's probably a 90% chance that your preceptor did not "sign up to be a preceptor" - either *their boss* signed them up to be a preceptor because they wanted to get free labor into the hospital, or the school called and begged them to take a student until they finally relented.

 

[TianjinNVhai]

There's probably a 90% chance that your preceptor did not "sign up to be a preceptor" - either *their boss* signed them up to be a preceptor because they wanted to get free labor into the hospital, or the school called and begged them to take a student until they finally relented.

Based on the way they are acting around here, that's probably true.

 

[Rouelle]

Based on the way they are acting around here, that's probably true.

It’s frequently true...and somewhat understandable, if you think about it objectively. Put yourself in the preceptor’s shoes: a student is coming to your site and the boss has to send her somewhere...so they send her to you. Now you still have the same amount of work to do that you normally have, but you also have to do something with an intern, and orient them, and evaluate them, etc. If you delegate her some of your real work, then you’re going to have to spend more time training her how to do it than it would take you just to do it yourself, and then you’ll have to double check everything she does because she doesn’t know anything and it’s your license on the line. So your workload is doubled. And if you ever get to the point that you can count on her to be of any value, then the month is probably over and it’s time to start again. So you put them in some corner with busy work to keep them out of your way.

Thankfully, that’s not how everyone does it. But teaching is not everyone’s calling and understanding that might help your patience a bit.

If you’re not getting much out of your preceptors, learn something from others there. I have (and continue to) learned quite a bit from techs. Bust your butt and help out any time you can, and you’ll get something out of your time there.

 

[PharmtoCS]

There is also the chance that your hospital receives a stipend from your school by taking you as a student.

 

[gwarm01]

Sorry to say, you aren't their top priority. And you aren't as important as you think. They are probably more concerned with their patient load. Honestly, you should be a bit more self directed and take some interest in what is going on. There are plenty of learning opportunities if you try to find them.

 

[beautifulrobot]

Have you tried talking to your preceptor about your concerns (in a nonjudgmental and respectful tone)? Or did you reach out to your experiential office to ask them for advice? The only one responsible for your learning is you - the sooner you realize that, the better.

 

[DOOM N GLOOM]

There is also the chance that your hospital receives a stipend from your school by taking you as a student.

Can validate. Private schools have the capital to “buy out” rotation spots from established rotation sites, especially at health centers affiliated with large academic institutions. How else do you think KGI, WCU, Chapman etc. is getting all their students all these industry and hospital rotations? Hospitals and pharma companies don’t magically spring up overnight.

In the grand scheme of things, it’s a smart but slick business move. Charge your students $80k in tuition, and pay hospitals $5k per student per rotation. Pocket the remaining $75k for yourself, knowing that 1) any hospital with any common sense would be a fool to turn down $5k per student every 4-6 weeks, and 2) despite having higher quality students, the top (and especially public) schools can’t win any bidding war that might result from your intrusion to the scene because they are broke. SOP is happy, hospital is happy, students at said SOP are happy, students at other schools are unhappy because they got displaced but who cares about that? Win-win-win-lose situation is still a 75% win overall. It’s a vicious cycle.

 

[Sine Cura]

Having been on both sides I try to make sure students get comfortable counseling and kind of develop bull****ting skills to deal with customers and doctor's offices in retail. (I also have a pile of busywork worksheets to preoccupy students...) . I mean just being in the pharmacy for an 8 hour shift at least a student can see the pile of bull**** pharmacy staff has to blast through to stay on top of the work.

 

[Apotheker2015]

There is also the chance that your hospital receives a stipend from your school by taking you as a student.

$500 was the word on the street when I was in school.

 

[owlegrad]

I can pretty much guarantee that if you volunteered to help the techs rather than wait for them to ask you for help that you could learn a million practical things that would help you as a pharmacist. At the same time I f you could impress your preceptor with the practical knowledge you’re learning they would probably be more willing to let you do clinical or interesting stuff as well.

Basically you’re going to get out of this what you put into it. Start looking for ways to be helpful and I promise you will be rewarded accordingly.


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[Sabril]

Have you tried talking to your preceptor about your concerns (in a nonjudgmental and respectful tone)? Or did you reach out to your experiential office to ask them for advice? The only one responsible for your learning is you - the sooner you realize that, the better.

Sound advice. Even if you are training for an actual job, if you are not a little demanding, you won't learn much. It is easy to be content to do "just your job" day to day but you will be obsolete very quickly.

 

[ExpressMaiL]

Your preceptor is trying to not get fired and pay off their student loans.

 

[rxiscray]

You can't expect every preceptor to be the same. Some hand hold your way through the rotation and other just throw you in the deep end. True there are some preceptors that don't want students and were forced into it, but you can still learn a lot by trying to get to know them and what they do.
If you preceptor is more of the latter than you are going to have to do a little bit more leg work instead of having everything given to you on a silver platter. Ask to shadow the preceptor on what they are doing, ask meaningful questions, and ask for some direction on what you should study or guidelines to review. Got to be very proactive to make a name for yourself in the pharmacy world.

 

[rxkrafted]

I was one of those preceptors where the director/clinical coordinator sent a student to. I usually ask students what they want to get out of this rotation or if they are set knowing what they want to do after graduation and would rather just study for their NAPLEX during the end of their rotation. Try to be more transparent without being disrespectful. I put myself in their shoes and remember when I was once a student.

 

[297point1]

There is also the chance that your hospital receives a stipend from your school by taking you as a student.

$500 was the word on the street when I was in school.

How long ago were you in school? It ain't $500 anymore...
Community pharmacy APPEs are still free, but hospital ones routinely cost schools four figures now.

 

[maria1oh]

In columbus ohio area kroger made all pharmacy managers register as preceptors. The school pays like 100-500 for each student they send besides getting the free labor.

 

[Apotheker2015]

How long ago were you in school? It ain't $500 anymore...
Community pharmacy APPEs are still free, but hospital ones routinely cost schools four figures now.

I see now that I did not communicate clearly. I meant that preceptors get $500 for each student. That is separate from any compensation the site might get from the school.

 

[Rxaunt]

I am going to echo the above and say that you get out of a rotation what you put into it. It is possible that your preceptor isn't really interested in teaching or being a preceptor. However based on what you wrote you could also argue that you are not interested as a student. Are you really spending all your time working on your project? I would say that if you come to a stopping point or a part where you get bored I would politely ask the techs or the preceptor if there is something else they would like you to do. If you see the techs running around and everyone looking frantic ask if there is a way you could help before they ask you. Ask your preceptor, when you are at a stopping point on your project, if they care if you observe them for a while and see what they do. Some sites what you do or what you learn is entirely up to you. I was flat out told by some sites that I got to do things that no one else did simply because I offered or asked to do them. Maybe they aren't interested in teaching or maybe they are a bad teacher but maybe you aren't giving this your all either. You are a P4 now and once you graduate all the things you need to continue to learn will be on you. So maybe you need to figure out what you need from this rotation and find a way to make sure you get that. Ok fine lets say all of the above doesn't work your preceptor has no other things for you to do and techs don't need your help and your preceptor won't or can't let you observe their work. Now this is where you need to teach yourself, sucks since you are paying for this experience but hey that's how the world works sometimes. If all the above is true maybe take a little bit of time each day and teach yourself something. Go over a disease state and the possible treatments, make a few notes and prestudy for the NAPLEX. Read this month's pharmacist's letter or some other journal article that interests you, be creative. Make it a plan to learn something everyday with or without your preceptor. Either way a rotation is only a little bit of time and you get to move on and go somewhere else. And despite what the school says not every rotation is the most exciting and fantastic experience of your life. Sometimes you just have to tough it up make it through and hope the next one is better.

 

[Apotheker2015]

Why in the world did u sign up to be someone else's "preceptor", if you are just planning to spend 0 minutes teaching them?
I'm on the second week of my hospital rotation right now, my preceptor spent 20 minutes giving me a tour of the pharmacy and went over the list full of presentations for me to work on. AND THAT WAS IT. Every single day, I came into work, work on my presentations and projects. Occasionally, I would have a tech walking up to my desk and goes " hey, you super busy right now, you care to do XXXXX(AKS shXt she's too lazy to do herself) for us?" and then she stepped out for her snack break.
My preceptor, didn't care to teach me anything clinical or useful as a pharmacist, I feel like this whole rotation is just a huge waste of my time, I'm not learning anything.
If you do not want to spend the time to teach, do not take me as a student. You potentially costed that student a chance to have an otherwise really good rotation which they could learn a lot from.

I would make sure to check in with your preceptor and ask for feedback. I have heard horror stories of people getting to the end of the rotation to find out they're on the verge of failing it. You have to do a lot of sucking up and do it hard. You have to graduate.

I have to say that I learned a TON through all my rotations. That also had to do with the fact that I was ALWAYS overly prepared for everything. I was not a top student but I did put my best foot forward for each rotation. Preceptors were very engaging. Maybe it's because it's a top school and people are annoyingly proud of that. Most preceptors were alumni.

For example, during my community rotation, I verified scripts. Yes, my preceptor was there. When my rotation ended in late October, I felt like a pharmacist. I walked into my VA rotation feeling very confident of my abilities.

 

[Chriskahn]

I had the same experience during my institutional rotation at a rural hospital. I was given a list of projects to complete during the 6 weeks I was there, basically 1 big project a week. The instructions were written down and examples from previous students were available for me to look at. If I had questions, I had to ask around. My preceptor was not involved at all. I only spoke to her once a week so that she can check on my progress. I had to do a bunch of audits, reports, and USP 797 stuff, nothing clinical at all

I decided to grind out those projects and finished them all in 3 weeks. I asked my preceptor if I could spend the last 3 weeks in the ED with the ED pharmacist and she said OK after checking off all of my completed projects. I basically turned my boring institutional rotation into half institutional half ED. I saw some crazy stuff in the ED the last 3 weeks and learned a lot. Your rotation is really what you want to make of it. You are there to learn, not work. I think most preceptors understand that.

It never hurts to ask for more opportunities if you want more out of your rotation

 

[smhrx11]

I've been put in that situation as a pharmacist in the hospital setting more times than I can count. Our director would schedule students and basically not see them again until the last day of the rotation. She would fill out a schedule for them to go to different satellites each day. When I was working ICU, along with handling all the pharmacokinetics, renal adjustments, attending codes, verifying, and compounding, I would feel guilty if I didn't at least try to show attention to students who were dropped off with me. I always tried to remember those rotations when I was going through school and how I hated feeling like I was just dumped off with someone else. I could tell that they weren't too thrilled with having me hang out with them all day, but I tried to make the best of it and learn independently without having to rely on a preceptor.

I know that most of the other pharmacists I worked with just treated students like they were in the way. I guess I like involving the students in my practice. School is one thing, but rotations should be more of a representation of what the real world of pharmacy is all about.

 

[ornithoptor]

Just to confirm, my previous hospital has budget line for fees collected on rotations from school. During budget season, we actually ask school how many student do we expect and plan accordingly. Clinical department may also allocate time and resources for these students with coordinator hours.

If you are getting less than you paid for, you have a good case to engage director or coordinator to mitigate this issue.

 

[Apotheker2015]

I've been put in that situation as a pharmacist in the hospital setting more times than I can count. Our director would schedule students and basically not see them again until the last day of the rotation. She would fill out a schedule for them to go to different satellites each day. When I was working ICU, along with handling all the pharmacokinetics, renal adjustments, attending codes, verifying, and compounding, I would feel guilty if I didn't at least try to show attention to students who were dropped off with me. I always tried to remember those rotations when I was going through school and how I hated feeling like I was just dumped off with someone else. I could tell that they weren't too thrilled with having me hang out with them all day, but I tried to make the best of it and learn independently without having to rely on a preceptor.

I know that most of the other pharmacists I worked with just treated students like they were in the way. I guess I like involving the students in my practice. School is one thing, but rotations should be more of a representation of what the real world of pharmacy is all about.

That is very unfortunate. I did not ONCE feel like I was in the way. Our school was very clear to the sites about this. They wanted us to act as pharmacists. During rounds, they asked us questions directly and they expected an answer. When I did my acute care rotations, I was there 12-14 hours a day. When I rotated at the VA, it was the same expectation, too. You are "it".

I suppose I have a lot to be thankful for then. As much as I hated pharmacy school, I am grateful for the top notch education I got.