Prelim surg hours
Started by Cushcat
LOL.
This thread, and this thread you made over here, don't really go together very well.
Mon: 5a-9p
Tues: 5a-12n(Wed...at least, that's how you'll be reporting it)
Thurs: 5a-9p
Fri: Day off
Sat: 5a-12n (Sun)
Mon: 5a-9p
Tues: 5a-12n (Wed)
Do you see where this is going?
If you land at a program that still follows the current rules you're looking at 5a-9 or 10p 6 days in a row with a day off. Then a month or 3 of night float.
This thread, and this thread you made over here, don't really go together very well.
Mon: 5a-9p
Tues: 5a-12n(Wed...at least, that's how you'll be reporting it)
Thurs: 5a-9p
Fri: Day off
Sat: 5a-12n (Sun)
Mon: 5a-9p
Tues: 5a-12n (Wed)
Do you see where this is going?
If you land at a program that still follows the current rules you're looking at 5a-9 or 10p 6 days in a row with a day off. Then a month or 3 of night float.
OMG!!!
is this really true? Are these the hours you work in prelim surg???!
That's more than 80h??!!
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Not if you document it like you're told to.
Am I not supposed to document it according to regulations? Is this kind of schedule common or only malignant programs?
I'll be honest and admit I wouldn't make it.
Q3 overnight call (for programs that do overnight call still/again) is pretty much the norm in surgery, prelim or cat.
Then why do it? Do IM or a TY.
Then why do it? Do IM or a TY.
Haha, I didn't think it would be that bad. Are there any cush surgery programs in the country?
Appreciate all your replies 🙂 thanks!
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why would you think the words "cush" and "surgery" would ever be in the same sentance?
do TY if you want cush.
If you want cush, go to derm or FM. Remember what residency is all about --- jamming as much training and exposing you to as much as possible about your chosen specialty (and make no mistake, you do have a large part to play in this choice -- the decision is yours on what to apply to and where to put the program in the rank list) in the 5 years that they have you.
If you screw up in most other specialties, very rarely will people possibly die immediately. You screw up in general surgery and there will be immediate and sometimes final consequences. Like the hemoptysis that was the sentinel bleed of a AAA mesh repair that had anastimosed with the esophagus --- that took 4 general surgeons (one with a vascular fellowship and one with military expeience) about 3 hours to get under control -- after 20+ units of PRBCs, the patient went to the ICU with a fem-fem and axillary-fem bypass done with an aortic termination done below the renals -- it looked like they had been running a slaughterhouse in there. As the student, I was staying the heck out of the way, grabbing what they called for and wiping the sweat off of foreheads. These surgeons never missed a beat, never got shaken up, worked quickly and efficiently to save this patients life. They wound up dying from elevated ammonia levels in the ICU after about a month but the surgical work was impressive.
You cannot say that you will not be required to pull those same hours after training. You also need to consider that the skills have to become second nature. There is no one backstopping you in that surgical suite once you're out of residency. Now, you may join a group and be the junior partner but if you get in trouble, you're responsible.
You should be grateful to get into a program that trains you to work long hours, work when you're tired, tries to get you as much repetition as possible and as many varied experiences as you can get...not looking to skate or go into a cush residency. If you want a cush lifestyle, be a finance type. If you want to walk with that badass, confident swagger that only a surgeon has, you should jump for joy at the thought of living in the hospital/OR for the next 5 years. Remember -- Sweat dries, blood clots, bones heal -- suck it up, buttercup.
If you screw up in most other specialties, very rarely will people possibly die immediately. You screw up in general surgery and there will be immediate and sometimes final consequences. Like the hemoptysis that was the sentinel bleed of a AAA mesh repair that had anastimosed with the esophagus --- that took 4 general surgeons (one with a vascular fellowship and one with military expeience) about 3 hours to get under control -- after 20+ units of PRBCs, the patient went to the ICU with a fem-fem and axillary-fem bypass done with an aortic termination done below the renals -- it looked like they had been running a slaughterhouse in there. As the student, I was staying the heck out of the way, grabbing what they called for and wiping the sweat off of foreheads. These surgeons never missed a beat, never got shaken up, worked quickly and efficiently to save this patients life. They wound up dying from elevated ammonia levels in the ICU after about a month but the surgical work was impressive.
You cannot say that you will not be required to pull those same hours after training. You also need to consider that the skills have to become second nature. There is no one backstopping you in that surgical suite once you're out of residency. Now, you may join a group and be the junior partner but if you get in trouble, you're responsible.
You should be grateful to get into a program that trains you to work long hours, work when you're tired, tries to get you as much repetition as possible and as many varied experiences as you can get...not looking to skate or go into a cush residency. If you want a cush lifestyle, be a finance type. If you want to walk with that badass, confident swagger that only a surgeon has, you should jump for joy at the thought of living in the hospital/OR for the next 5 years. Remember -- Sweat dries, blood clots, bones heal -- suck it up, buttercup.
i think you missed the part of him going into rads after a prelim surgery year...
I stand corrected.
Couldn't agree more
Our prelim surgery residents routinely work way over 80 hours, on busy services approach 100. It's brutal, not very fulfilling work and the teaching can be minimal/nonexistent. There's a reason so many spots go unfilled in the match.
You'd be better off going TY or prelim medicine if you aren't interested in such hours, you shouldn't have a problem getting a spot if you are a reasonable rads applicant.
You'd be better off going TY or prelim medicine if you aren't interested in such hours, you shouldn't have a problem getting a spot if you are a reasonable rads applicant.
With your emphasis on having everything "cush", I sincerely hope neither I nor anyone I know have to rely on your medical expertise ever in the future.
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Likewise 🙂 there is no evidence that a well rested doctor is a worse doctor, and I appreciate evidence based statements. Look at our European colleagues with their 50h work weeks.
Q3 call in surgery means come in at 6am, work til 6am, signout til 7am then go to morning conference or whatever is on the schedule til 9 or 10am before going home. Duty hours are a joke, you log them through the hospital so you are pressured, or rather forced, to change them if they go over 80. If you dont play ball they will log them for you haha. Full disclosure I'm not a surgery resident, just describing what I've seen while off service. It happens in IM too. If ACGME really gave a F they would have residents log through them directly.
