Preparation for MD/PhD application (low GPA)

[Raiees2002]

Hello.
I would like to get opinions on how I can plan the next 3-4 years of life in order to make my application for a MD/PhD strong(er). Unfortunately I do have a very low GPA. Please read on I posed my questions at the end. Thank you!

Education:
1) 4-years BSc
___GPA -->
_______1st yr: really low!;
_______2nd, 3rd, 4th yr: A- (3.7);
_______Overall: B+ (3.3)

2) 4-years pharmD
___GPA -->
_______1st yr: really low!;
_______2nd yr: A- (3.7);
_______3rd yr: in progress (aiming for 3.6-3.7)
_______4th yr: NO percentage grades given (it's only Honor/Pass/fail)
_______Overall: (aiming for) 3.5

Research Experience:
- only 4 months of directed study in neuroscience with grade of A (85%) (submitted thesis, but no publication, no presentation)
- Future plan: volunteer in prof's lab in year 3 of pharmD
- Future plan: take directed studies course in year 4 of PharmD with the same prof as above

MCAT:
have never written it so far. What should I aim for here to perhaps make up for my low overall GPA?

Employment:
- pharmacy and hospital jobs
- multiple hospital internships
- impressive leadership experiences
- own my own business in the sports sector

Extracurriculars:
- lots of sport accomplishments

Question 1) given my low GPA, if I write an outstanding MCAT, do I have any chances for MD/PhD?
Question 2) if so, what MCAT score should I aim for?
Question 3) With respect to research, what should I focus on? how should I make my research experience impressive? (I have 3-4 years to accomplish this).
Question 4) any suggestions in general for improvement in the next 3-4 years?

Thank you

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[Optimist Prime]

I'm no expert on MD/PhD but your gpa pretty much kills your chances I believe. MD/PhD is harder to get into than just MD and right now you would have a tough time just trying to get into an MD program. The thing is the people who get into MD/PhD programs not only score 517+ on their MCATS but they also have 3.8+ gpa's, so even if you do insanely well on your MCAT so did everyone else applying, and they all still have higher gpa's than you. Your research experience would be impressive if you get multiple publications/posters, however even if you do this med schools are just going to question why you don't just do pharmacy research.

 

[mwsapphire]

If you have a steep Upward trend, like two years of a post bacc to raise the GPA ( and show that you can pull a 3.8+) and a strong MCAT you may have a chance.
https://www.aamc.org/download/321548/data/factstableb10.pdf

 

[DBC03]

I did see on one table that someone with a 2.7 was accepted. My guess is that it was probably someone from MIT who has 8 patents and discovered a cure for a disease and was published first page of Nature and somehow got a 528. But you never know!

I have similar stats for undergrad (2.2 Freshman year, 3.3 overall). I did a post-bac, but I have so many credits that it is really hard ot raise my GPA. I could go back for an entire undergrad degree and only go up by .15 points...

I think research is ultimately more important and that you could apply to some of the less well-known MD/PhD programs. It will probably be difficult to get into any upper level, but I don't know. You should look up the physician-scientist forum here and see what they think.

As for MCAT: Aim for a 528. Why aim any lower? If you fail to get that (as I did), you may still end up above 520.

 

[Raiees2002]

If you have a steep Upward trend, like two years of a post bacc to raise the GPA ( and show that you can pull a 3.8+) and a strong MCAT you may have a chance.
https://www.aamc.org/download/321548/data/factstableb10.pdf

by "two years of a post bac", do you mean if I do a master's after my PharmD? what else would be a good post-bac option ?

 

[mwsapphire]

by "two years of a post bac", do you mean if I do a master's after my PharmD? what else would be a good post-bac option ?

Ask these guys
Paging Dr Goro and Gonnif
@Goro @gonnif

 

[Goro]

Question 1) given my low GPA, if I write an outstanding MCAT, do I have any chances for MD/PhD?
Question 2) if so, what MCAT score should I aim for?
My understanding of MD/PhD programs is that one has to be Harvard/Stanford caliber. I do not know if they reward reinvention. A high MCAT does not make up for a low cGPA. But hold that thought.

I think that this is moot in your case for MD/PhD. But hold that thought.
Question 3) With respect to research, what should I focus on? how should I make my research experience impressive? (I have 3-4 years to accomplish this).


I suggest that given your record of reinvention, that with a good MCAT score (513+) that you should target those MD schools (and all DO) that reward reinvention. You will need ot shadow, and also make the case that you're running to Medicine, and not merely away from Pharmacy.

As for research, whatever is interesting to you.

Are you Canadian? I ask because Americans don't use the term "write the MCAT". If so, US MD might be problematic. DO is still doable. In you're an American. START applying! You can always do research with just an MD.
Question 4) any suggestions in general for improvement in the next 3-4 years?


No, this was probably someone like the OP who had a massive rising GPA trend, which still couldn't undo the damage done by a poor first year or two. Adcoms want to know that you can handle med school, and one can't simply look at two numbers. The idea is not merely to look at cGPA, but the trends.
did see on one table that someone with a 2.7 was accepted. My guess is that it was probably someone from MIT who has 8 patents and discovered a cure for a disease and was published first page of Nature and somehow got a 528. But you never know!

 

[DBC03]

No, this was probably someone like the OP who had a massive rising GPA trend, which still couldn't undo the damage done by a poor first year or two. Adcoms want to know that you can handle med school, and one can't simply look at two numbers. The idea is not merely to look at cGPA, but the trends.

I'm holding out on this for this year!!

 

[Raiees2002]

Question 1) given my low GPA, if I write an outstanding MCAT, do I have any chances for MD/PhD?
Question 2) if so, what MCAT score should I aim for?
My understanding of MD/PhD programs is that one has to be Harvard/Stanford caliber. I do not know if they reward reinvention. A high MCAT does not make up for a low cGPA. But hold that thought.

I think that this is moot in your case for MD/PhD. But hold that thought.
Question 3) With respect to research, what should I focus on? how should I make my research experience impressive? (I have 3-4 years to accomplish this).


I suggest that given your record of reinvention, that with a good MCAT score (513+) that you should target those MD schools (and all DO) that reward reinvention. You will need ot shadow, and also make the case that you're running to Medicine, and not merely away from Pharmacy.

As for research, whatever is interesting to you.

Are you Canadian? I ask because Americans don't use the term "write the MCAT". If so, US MD might be problematic. DO is still doable. In you're an American. START applying! You can always do research with just an MD.
Question 4) any suggestions in general for improvement in the next 3-4 years?


No, this was probably someone like the OP who had a massive rising GPA trend, which still couldn't undo the damage done by a poor first year or two. Adcoms want to know that you can handle med school, and one can't simply look at two numbers. The idea is not merely to look at cGPA, but the trends.
did see on one table that someone with a 2.7 was accepted. My guess is that it was probably someone from MIT who has 8 patents and discovered a cure for a disease and was published first page of Nature and somehow got a 528. But you never know!

Yes Canadian and I am actually hoping I would be able to get into one of the Canadian schools.
I also did not understand what you meant by the phrase "reward reinvention".
As a Canadian, should I even consider US schools (or is it even more difficult to get in as an international?).

 

[Lucca]

I did see on one table that someone with a 2.7 was accepted. My guess is that it was probably someone from MIT who has 8 patents and discovered a cure for a disease and was published first page of Nature and somehow got a 528. But you never know!

I have similar stats for undergrad (2.2 Freshman year, 3.3 overall). I did a post-bac, but I have so many credits that it is really hard ot raise my GPA. I could go back for an entire undergrad degree and only go up by .15 points...

I think research is ultimately more important and that you could apply to some of the less well-known MD/PhD programs. It will probably be difficult to get into any upper level, but I don't know. You should look up the physician-scientist forum here and see what they think.

As for MCAT: Aim for a 528. Why aim any lower? If you fail to get that (as I did), you may still end up above 520.

it's funny u say that because there is someone at HMS right now IRL with a 3.0 from MIT with several patents, a Nature paper and a perfect MCAT score. Worked at google for a bit, IIRC.



OP, low GPA and low MCAT make MD/PhD very hard. You need a very, very impressive research record to make up for low stats. If you can finish with a 3.4/3.5 and get a very high MCAT (518+) and have an impressive research record (2+ years independent research with presentations, ideally a paper), then you would have a realistic shot.

 

[Goro]

Yes Canadian and I am actually hoping I would be able to get into one of the Canadian schools.
I also did not understand what you meant by the phrase "reward reinvention".
As a Canadian, should I even consider US schools (or is it even more difficult to get in as an international?).

The expertise in these fora are for US schools.

I can only recommend those DO schools that take internationals.

 

[Raiees2002]

I am a little confused by the OP's background. he/she has a BS and is working on PharmD with almost no research. Now they want to spend 3-4 years more to get into research to first apply to MD/PhD and spend another 7-8 years in school and the 3-5 in residency for what reason? And this is after some academic issues in both first years of respective programs. The OP seems decent candidate for med school now. So explain to me why MD/PhD as you will have to do so when you apply.

It's correct I have BSc, and working on PharmD now.
I have 2 years of the pharmD program left + 1 year of residency (total of 3 years). That gives me 3 years during which I could gain some research experience before applying for the MD/PHD. I am in the process of planning now, I have no rush to apply right now.

If I apply to med now, and I get admission, it would mean I won't be finishing my pharmD! I certainly want to finish pharmacy before applying to med.

 

[dr.Breezy]

Question 1) given my low GPA, if I write an outstanding MCAT, do I have any chances for MD/PhD?
Question 2) if so, what MCAT score should I aim for?
My understanding of MD/PhD programs is that one has to be Harvard/Stanford caliber. I do not know if they reward reinvention. A high MCAT does not make up for a low cGPA. But hold that thought.

I think that this is moot in your case for MD/PhD. But hold that thought.
Question 3) With respect to research, what should I focus on? how should I make my research experience impressive? (I have 3-4 years to accomplish this).


I suggest that given your record of reinvention, that with a good MCAT score (513+) that you should target those MD schools (and all DO) that reward reinvention. You will need ot shadow, and also make the case that you're running to Medicine, and not merely away from Pharmacy.

As for research, whatever is interesting to you.

Are you Canadian? I ask because Americans don't use the term "write the MCAT". If so, US MD might be problematic. DO is still doable. In you're an American. START applying! You can always do research with just an MD.
Question 4) any suggestions in general for improvement in the next 3-4 years?


No, this was probably someone like the OP who had a massive rising GPA trend, which still couldn't undo the damage done by a poor first year or two. Adcoms want to know that you can handle med school, and one can't simply look at two numbers. The idea is not merely to look at cGPA, but the trends.
did see on one table that someone with a 2.7 was accepted. My guess is that it was probably someone from MIT who has 8 patents and discovered a cure for a disease and was published first page of Nature and somehow got a 528. But you never know!

My god. That's it. It's been a burning curiosity of mine why some people say "I wrote the mcat..." or "I am writing step 1". It sounds weird, and I couldn't put my finger on why some people said it like that. But after your much enlightening comment, I realized what they all (of the people I know) have in common is that they are Canadian lol


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[tessellations]

My god. That's it. It's been a burning curiosity of mine why some people say "I wrote the mcat..." or "I am writing step 1". It sounds weird, and I couldn't put my finger on why some people said it like that. But after your much enlightening comment, I realized what they all (of the people I know) have in common is that they are Canadian lol


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

I believe it comes from the Queen's English, since Brits say it too. You write exams instead of taking them. Always throws me off a bit.

 

[cactusman]

My god. That's it. It's been a burning curiosity of mine why some people say "I wrote the mcat..." or "I am writing step 1". It sounds weird, and I couldn't put my finger on why some people said it like that. But after your much enlightening comment, I realized what they all (of the people I know) have in common is that they are Canadian lol


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

I believe it comes from the Queen's English, since Brits say it too. You write exams instead of taking them. Always throws me off a bit.

And in German, "schreiben" is the verb for both writing and test taking. I think it's like that in many languages; I always just assumed it was an ESL thing. I guess I was off a bit.

 

[Raiees2002]

But WHY are you interested in MD/PhD

To be honest, as I was typing my reply to your question earlier, I realized I need more time to reflect on the answer.
So I wasn't ignoring it, I just do not want to share a response that is not well-thought out.

 

[Dr. Stalker]

Hello.
I would like to get opinions on how I can plan the next 3-4 years of life in order to make my application for a MD/PhD strong(er). Unfortunately I do have a very low GPA. Please read on I posed my questions at the end. Thank you!

Education:
1) 4-years BSc
___GPA -->
_______1st yr: really low!;
_______2nd, 3rd, 4th yr: A- (3.7);
_______Overall: B+ (3.3)

2) 4-years pharmD
___GPA -->
_______1st yr: really low!;
_______2nd yr: A- (3.7);
_______3rd yr: in progress (aiming for 3.6-3.7)
_______4th yr: NO percentage grades given (it's only Honor/Pass/fail)
_______Overall: (aiming for) 3.5

Research Experience:
- only 4 months of directed study in neuroscience with grade of A (85%) (submitted thesis, but no publication, no presentation)
- Future plan: volunteer in prof's lab in year 3 of pharmD
- Future plan: take directed studies course in year 4 of PharmD with the same prof as above

MCAT:
have never written it so far. What should I aim for here to perhaps make up for my low overall GPA?

Employment:
- pharmacy and hospital jobs
- multiple hospital internships
- impressive leadership experiences
- own my own business in the sports sector

Extracurriculars:
- lots of sport accomplishments

Question 1) given my low GPA, if I write an outstanding MCAT, do I have any chances for MD/PhD?
Question 2) if so, what MCAT score should I aim for?
Question 3) With respect to research, what should I focus on? how should I make my research experience impressive? (I have 3-4 years to accomplish this).
Question 4) any suggestions in general for improvement in the next 3-4 years?

Thank you

Aim for a 515+. Most MD/PhD students have a very competitive MCAT. Additionally, you should have extensive research. 2 years is the usual if not 3. Most MD PhD students start research at the beginning of sophomore year and carry through until graduation. This includes summer, winter, and spring break.

Also, its a great thing to shadow, but make it worth your time; if you live near an academic medical center, try to find an MD PhD to shadow, this way you can see how she/he handles clinic and research obligations. This will win you some bread points come interview season.

For now OP, you're young, raise your GPA, get a 515+ MCAT, and find some meaningful research.