Prerequisite: Getting a W vs. a C

[Ashlee]

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So, I'm really lost as to what to do here. I would really appreciate any advice!!!

I'm taking what *should* be a really easy semester😛hysiology, O-Chem, Animal Nutrition, Speech. And I'm not working full time or anything, so I definitely don't feel like I have any excuses for not doing well this semester.

I'm doing really well in everything except for O-Chem.

I've been studying like mad for O-chem every day, at least a net 4 hours of studying a day. I've done all the practice problems, read all the material, attended all the review sessions, and asked my professor every question I could think of. (We have 400 people in the class and he knows me by name). You can imagine my despair when I take the exams and still end up getting lower Cs on all of them...


Normally, I would stick this out and try to get at least a B anyways, but realistically I've already been studying the maximum amount that I possibly could for this class without going insane. And there's no way that I'll have time to study as much as I have been previously the rest of the semester. I've been told that the last exams are also the most difficult. It's probable if I stick with it I will make either a C or possibly worse.


I feel like dropping it, but continuing to go to lecture and learning the material as well as possible would be the best option. That way, I can retake it next semester and hopefully do a lot better. I'm also going to start saving up for a good tutor. But how would that look to vet schools? If I drop, I wouldn't even be going full time this semester (an atrocious 9 hours).


But if I stay in, I could possibly wreck the GPA that I've worked so hard to maintain.

I've also heard the professors are even more difficult next semester. But I feel like if I study my brains out again there's no way I could possibly do this badly two times in a row...


What would you do in my situation?

 

[sumstorm]

Have you discussed this with your professor? Gone over your tests to see where you are weak?

Having problems with a conceptual issue that is following you through the class? Just not able to memorize enough? etc?

 

[DVMorBust]

Just a couple of things. One, going below full time for one semester probably won't hurt you too much, as long as you don't make a habit of it. Two, your GPA is the hardest thing to bring back, and is what gets you through the first round of applications at a lot of schools, so you don't want to mess with it if you can help it.

Organic, more than other classes, depends a huge amount on how the professor *works for you*. I LOVED my first semester O-chem professor, and he was disliked by many people for being too nitpicky and hard. I hated my 2nd semester O-chem professor, who was universally loved for being fun and interesting. So you might find that the 'harder' professors are actually easier for you.

Then again, you know yourself best so if you feel next semester you'd have a harder time getting what you're set up for this semester, then I'd just get it over with - because on the other side of the coin, a C isn't going to kill your chances either, especially if the rest of your GPA is strong.

 

[JuniorJumper]

I was in the same situation with organic II about a year ago. Studied as much as I could, did all of the practice problems, read the chapters over & over, and knew every mechanism. I did well in organic I with minimal studying, but something about organic II didnt click with me (maybe it was the fact that the exams were at 7:30 in the morning?)

Long story short, I cut my losses by withdrawing & never regretted my decision. Wihdrawing brought me down to something like 10 or 11 credit hours, but seeing a C+/C on my transcript would not have been indicative of me as a student & I didnt want to ruin my GPA because of one class. I am retaking the class this summer over a year from the drop (!) with the "hardest" professor which is a little intimidating, but I will be able to dedicate a lot more time to it this time around.

At this point, I would probably drop the class because it would be devastating if you ended up bombing the last test or final. If you are taking an organic lab, finish it out, and try the lecture again another semester. You're allowed to withdraw from a certain number of classes for a reason and I dont think admission committees would hold it against you, especially if this is your only drop in all 4 years & you end up doing really well next time around 🙂

 

[Ashlee]

I've discussed my progress with my professor several times, but I'm not sure if something learned previously holding me back is the issue.


When I take the tests, it's normally the small, simple details that have been getting me more than the big picture. I also feel like I can't process the problems that I understand quickly enough to do well in the time constraints, even when everything is crystal clear to me. I told my professor this and he said he thought that I must have a poor test taking strategy. He claims that I spend far too much time on problems that I don't understand. The problem with that is that I already skip anything I'm not automatically able to process and save it for last. I just don't have time to go back and process all of the problems I've skipped for last normally. I've always been an incredibly slow test taker though.

 

[ckgilabert]

I would say to get a private tutor. at my school, cal poly pomona, we have a program called SEES where they have extra workshops and free tutors. there's also a learning center that offers 2 hours of free tutoring every week.

my attack for ochem (and i got a B, A-, and A) was to record the lectures, listen to them over, practice the problems from in class, practice the problems in the chapter of the book and rarely practiced the problems in the back of the book.

DONT TRY TO UNDERSTAND OCHEM....when i first started i'd be like "why??" when you just have to do it. remember the tricks and steps, it's all about practicing.

i'd also hire a tutor for 1 hour a week, i did those workshops which were 4 hours a week, and i did study groups like CRAZY. and i only studied with A students.

anyway, i'd stick with it since it doesnt seem like too much like a hectic schedule. and you want to get over with your ochem so that you can take biochem. 1 C isn't going to hurt your chances in getting into vet school.

anyway, that's my OPINION. people may disagree what what i have to say...and of course, it's how YOU feel about the situation. 🙂

 

[twelvetigers]

Once C won't hurt you, but neither will a W. See what a C will do to your overall GPA. Based on that, decide if it's worth it to try again or if you'd just rather continue with the course since you're over halfway through. Will having to repeat the course set you back in any major way?

If you're worried about only having 9 hours, are there any short courses you can take? I dropped a class once (W) and then took a two credit hour online course to make up for the lost hours. I'm not sure what your university offers, but it's worth looking into if you are considering taking a W.

Good luck, and don't feel too bad about it - I can assure you that I made Cs in organic chemistry. 😉

 

[sumstorm]

Ugh....if speed is getting you...it might be a problem next semester as well.

After the test, when you review, do you go through and do all the problems as efficiently as you can and time it? Then check against an answer key? What score are you getting from that? If you are getting a solid score, you know what to focus on....increasing speed.

Will having 9 hours affect your student status, scholarships, fin aid, housing, etc?

 

[Ashlee]

umm.. I don't normally go back and do the tests over again, but when I do practice problems in the book, or mock exams, I always get them correct given unlimited time, and the tests are somewhat similar to these.

I've already checked it out and it will not affect anything for me financially.

 

[Ashlee]

A C shouldn't hurt my overall GPA too badly. But I'm a recent transfer to my new university, and one C will effect my "non transferred" GPA. Especially since I don't know how I'm going to perform in my later classes over here.

 

[sumstorm]

hmmm....when I tutor, that is one of my recommendations if an early test isn't as good as a student wants..... no notes, no book....just test with unlimited time.

a trick I learned recently was to go back through tests and identify where questions came from, if possible (notes, text, homework, previous tests, etc.)

Personally, if it didn't affect anything at all (including future schedule) I would withdraw. It does affect you financially, I assume, because you have paid for it....but if it doesn't jeopardize your financial situation, that would be my advice, if you feel confident that you can do better next time

that is a big key here....if you withdraw and still get a C, well.... that might be a problem in terms of frustration, stess, time burnt, etc. Otherwise, I would try to figure out what I need to do to get as high a grade as I am capable of this semester, even if that means taking leaves of absense from any social activities I am involved in, finding an emergency tutor (ask the professor for names) and spending lots of time drilling exams/problems without support of notes/books.

I found, while tutoring ochem, a lot of people could track how to do things using notes/books, but couldn't do it in the absence of back up.

Oh, and just for upfront honesty, I had a C in ochem (at least one semester, possibly both.) I was also the tutor in greatest demand for the next 2 years at college and I have continued to tutor ochem off and on for the decade since I took it. Most of the people I tutored obtained B's....A's weren't common at our school.

Some proof that poor grade doesn't mean you don't ever get the material....I just couldn't see my own weaknesses because I didn't know how to use my failures to my advantage.

 

[Ashlee]

Okay, I think I'm going to go talk to my academic advisor tommorrow and see if he agrees with me that I should withdraw and try again next semester. If he isn't too discouraging, I think that will have to be my plan.

Next semester, I will get a tutor and do nothing but work problems with them. Maybe someone else can pinpoint some issue that I have not been seeing.


*crosses fingers* I am a little terrified that I will still not do well in organic next semester, but I also feel like it may be worth the risk. The worst that could happen if I retake is that I will still have the same GPA that I had if I didn't retake, after all.


Thank you all for your help and advice! It means a lot!

 

[sumstorm]

Oh, btw, your overall GPA for vmcas will be calculated with ALL your class grades, not just your post-transfer.

 

[david594]

DONT TRY TO UNDERSTAND OCHEM....when i first started i'd be like "why??" when you just have to do it. remember the tricks and steps, it's all about practicing.

Wow now!

I disagree. DON'T TRY TO MEMORIZE OCHEM!

Ok, not both our opinions are out there.... and you know what they say about opinions?

Seriously though, that is far from universally sound advice. Maybe in some O-chem classes it will be acceptable if you can simply regurgitate the problems, but there are going to be just as many others where they professor will expect you to apply an actual understanding of the material. Its very easy for a professor to say, "And what will happen if we replace X atom with Y?" Or any of a thousand other what if's. If you understand the material, you can simply apply the principles.

 

[nyanko]

For what it's worth, I agree with david594. Organic chem will be much easier if you actually understand it as opposed to trying to memorize mechanisms.

 

[sumstorm]

It really depends on your ochem class. My class you needed to know the concepts and understand them...but you still had to memorize which reaction went with which name....so that when you are asked to do Cory-Chaykovsky Reaction you needed to know without much thought that it is sulfur ylides with carbonyl compouds to get epoxides. And that it is different than a Corey-Bakshi-Shibata, Corey-Fuchs, Corey-Kim, Corey-Seebach, Corey-Suggs, or a Corey-Winter.

So, I don't know about anyone else, but my class required an understanding...but also a whole lot of memorization, since we would get something like 'from the previous problem; replace molecule X with molecue Y, then show the mechanisms, conformations, and name the reaction.

 

[Bob2]

For O-Chem I always found understanding was a much better stratagy then memorizing. But that is just me, everyone learns differently and different people find different classes more difficult. You need to find what works for you.

 

[Mistoffeles]

I personally have great difficulty memorizing. For o-chem, this meant lots of repetition of problems to learn the mechanisms, and lots of time figuring out patterns (i.e., small changes from one type of mechanism to the next), so that I could memorize one thing and then just make a small shift in my brain to do the next problem.

for biochem, surprisingly, i found it easy to remember pathways and intermediates. however, i never felt like I was memorizing - rather, just understanding the pathway and its biological effect well enough that the "details" fell into place. perhaps this has to do with words vs. symbols?