Professional Salaries

[toofache32]

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i would like to meet Nielo 😍

<insert your favorite 70's porn music>

 

[GatorDMD]

I stumbled across a link with average salaries, not sure if the source got the information through a feedback system from practicing dentists. There is no indication what the starting salary is, just an average.

http://www.payscale.com/salary-survey/vid-7900

👍

 

[Rube]

Hopefully we all went to dental school to be professionals. That used to mean something in this country. Those who know what I'm talking about are not sending out resumes.

 

[JamieMac]

One of my college roommates went the CFA route, 150k salary, 40-60k annual bonus check, he was same year college grad as I (04).

If you're in it strictly for the money, go into business or finance, where there is no "set formula" for success but a lot more opportunities for ginormous financial windfall. Go into dentistry if you think you'd like being a dentist.

I'm not sure that I agree with this. I have a finance degree from a top tier school, and can tell you that the financial analysts that I know who ALSO have MBAs do not pull this kind of money. The only ones that do were either connected, brilliant, or both (but mainly connected). Landing a job with a prestigious firm is very difficult and it takes time to achieve that level of bonus. They don't just hand out the $150,K (+ bonus) jobs. One analyst that I know works 60-70 hours per week and is required to go to Singapore several times per year – he makes $120,K plus options.

 

[gator1210]

One of my college roommates went the CFA route, 150k salary, 40-60k annual bonus check, he was same year college grad as I (04).

If you're in it strictly for the money, go into business or finance, where there is no "set formula" for success but a lot more opportunities for ginormous financial windfall. Go into dentistry if you think you'd like being a dentist.

In order to start exams for becoming a CFA, you have to have 3 years experience. So either he is older and worked before going to college or that he has a 3 year experience lead on many college grads. Hence, the salary lead on many finance majors.

correct me if im wrong

 

[HTD]

Unless you are willing to move to some crappy place in Alabama or Ohio or Minnesota (which, i assume is not too many people's dreams)

Why the venom? Are you unhappy with your choice?

 

[kkbouche]

Amen to that!

I wouldnt live in LA or NY if you gave me 5,000,000 a year. I'll take "crappy" any day. That way I can fish, hunt, and watch the sunset with out dying of lung cancer from the smog or a stray gun shot from a gang-banger

 

[lvmd]

I been there and done that....

Salary ranges for many individuals...
In NYC which is where I am now... a new grad can make as low as $80,000 or as much as $130,000 1st yr. out of school.

Working for a private office varies b/c some pay on collection or salary.
I will only work for flat salary if it is a min. of $600/day b/c I can generate much more if I was paid on collections.

I worked in Syracuse and I was paid $10,000/month flat salary. At the Syracuse office, I was producing roughly around $60,000/month...I left that job b/c the owner was making so much money off of me and they wouldn't compensate me for my hard work, while the other docs there were producing $40,000/month and got paid the same as me.

The bottom line is most new grad. can not produce or (do a lot of dentistry) when they get out of school. So it all depends on you, your staff and how efficient your are at doing preps, restoring, extracting, cleaning and shaping, surgery, taking impressions, and communicating(key to success).

It is true that you will be paid less in cities that are saturated with dentist and that is b/c most city dentist take all sought of insurance, ppo's, DMO's, and other garbage. While in small cities, there is less evidence of cooporate dental insurance. But in a big city you can make a lot, if you can find the right doc. to work for...some of my friends who are finishing their GPR were offered $125,000/yr in NYC and LA, which is not bad for a 1st yr. But these job are very few and are rare. So do your job search early to land these jobs.

Like most of you, I don't know how fast or good you are at producing when you get out of school, so most of us opt for salary so we can assure ourself a steady paycheck...but once you find our that you can be paid more if you were paid on collection or production then go towards that avenue.

I hope this clear a few things for you eager dentists out there.

With Kind Regards,

Learning Dentistry from other's mistakes.
LVMD

 

[dexadental]

This may be off topic, and I am too lazy to read all the previous posts, but why would anyone become an accountant just so they can make 45,000 their first year? Do you realize the sacrifice of going to dental school...after those four years, you will be making double that salary upon entering the dental field. Silly people. My mother is an accountant and makes very good money, but she is also screaming on the phone a lot, crunching numbers all day, and stressed. Doesn't sound like my cup of tea.

 

[organichemistry]

This may be off topic, and I am too lazy to read all the previous posts, but why would anyone become an accountant just so they can make 45,000 their first year? Do you realize the sacrifice of going to dental school...after those four years, you will be making double that salary upon entering the dental field. Silly people. My mother is an accountant and makes very good money, but she is also screaming on the phone a lot, crunching numbers all day, and stressed. Doesn't sound like my cup of tea.

think of it like this. if you take 150,000 in loans for school, you will end up paying 250,000 or 300,000 back because of interest.

now consider accountants (or engineers, or other sought after majors straight from college) will be making 45, 48, 50, and 55 thousand a year while you are taking out those loans.

so at age 26 when you finish dental school you are in the whole half a million dollars compared to your friends in accounting. can you make that up? sure... but it's not like accountants don't see increasing pay either. a hot shot accountant can easily be making as much as a dentist in their mid 30s.

 

[leehrat]

think of it like this. if you take 150,000 in loans for school, you will end up paying 250,000 or 300,000 back because of interest.

now consider accountants (or engineers, or other sought after majors straight from college) will be making 45, 48, 50, and 55 thousand a year while you are taking out those loans.

so at age 26 when you finish dental school you are in the whole half a million dollars compared to your friends in accounting. can you make that up? sure... but it's not like accountants don't see increasing pay either. a hot shot accountant can easily be making as much as a dentist in their mid 30s.

no, you'd actually be very hard-pressed to find ONE accountant earning in the mid 200's/year in their mid 30's. but think what you want, i guess

 

[Hardbody]

no, you'd actually be very hard-pressed to find ONE accountant earning in the mid 200's/year in their mid 30's. but think what you want, i guess

Accounting is hit or miss, just like investment banking. I am an accounting major, and yes you can make a decent living as an accountant. Depending on where you are in the country 35-50 grand is what you will be starting at. Become a CPA and you will command on average about 75-90 grand a year. Not to bad for just needing a 4 year degree.

You would be very hard pressed to find an accountant earning in the mid 200's, but there are some with accounting backgrounds in business making MILLIONS. Look at the degree that most CEO's hold. The majority have an accounting background. So, if you think you have what it takes to become a CEO of a good size company, and do not mind waiting many many years to make big money, then go the accounting route. If you want guaranteed six figure income, like working with your hands, and enjoy patient interaction, then go with dentistry.

 

[dexadental]

Accounting is hit or miss, just like investment banking. I am an accounting major, and yes you can make a decent living as an accountant. Depending on where you are in the country 35-50 grand is what you will be starting at. Become a CPA and you will command on average about 75-90 grand a year. Not to bad for just needing a 4 year degree.

You would be very hard pressed to find an accountant earning in the mid 200's, but there are some with accounting backgrounds in business making MILLIONS. Look at the degree that most CEO's hold. The majority have an accounting background. So, if you think you have what it takes to become a CEO of a good size company, and do not mind waiting many many years to make big money, then go the accounting route. If you want guaranteed six figure income, like working with your hands, and enjoy patient interaction, then go with dentistry.

Totally agree with this. You can make excellent money in accounting or dentistry, but make it faster through dentistry. Accounting is important as it is "the language of business", and I think dentists should take courses in it in dental school...atleast a few business courses. Are these offered in dental school? Like business classes/business law/accounting?

 

[Hardbody]

Totally agree with this. You can make excellent money in accounting or dentistry, but make it faster through dentistry. Accounting is important as it is "the language of business", and I think dentists should take courses in it in dental school...atleast a few business courses. Are these offered in dental school? Like business classes/business law/accounting?

I am pre-dent, but just from surfing through d-school curriculum I can tell you virtually ever d-school offers a few course on practice management. Most new dentists will learn the ropes when they first start off as an associate from the dentist that owns the practice. That being said, I would recomend taking classes in management science (tough, but very useful course. Calc. & stats. usually pre reqs for it. You will be taught how to make good decisions quantitatively), marketing, financial management, accounting 1 & 2, business law, cost accounting, and advanced accounting since you will deal with accounting principles for a professional practice, unfortunately you will need intermediate accounting 1 & 2 😱 before taking it.

 

[12YearOldKid]

I am pre-dent, but just from surfing through d-school curriculum I can tell you virtually ever d-school offers a few course on practice management.

...all taught by people who never have or simply couldn't run a practice. Mostly these courses are filled up with drivel about OSHA and HIPPA compliance. What scant business knowledge these courses present is so elementary that it offends my intelligence.

 

[Hardbody]

...all taught by people who never have or simply couldn't run a practice. Mostly these courses are filled up with drivel about OSHA and HIPPA compliance. What scant business knowledge these courses present is so elementary that it offends my intelligence.

Yeah, I figured that. D-schools primary interest is to make future dentists good clinicians, and leave it to the future dentists to become good business people. I guess the only reason most schools offer these classes, is because they look good on paper.

 

[toofache32]

...all taught by people who never have or simply couldn't run a practice. Mostly these courses are filled up with drivel about OSHA and HIPPA compliance. What scant business knowledge these courses present is so elementary that it offends my intelligence.

This is exactly what I was thinking. My dental school had several "business" and "practice management" courses which were the biggest waste of time in all my education.

 

[OMFSCardsFan]

You would be very hard pressed to find an accountant earning in the mid 200's, but there are some with accounting backgrounds in business making MILLIONS. Look at the degree that most CEO's hold. The majority have an accounting background. So, if you think you have what it takes to become a CEO of a good size company, and do not mind waiting many many years to make big money, then go the accounting route. If you want guaranteed six figure income, like working with your hands, and enjoy patient interaction, then go with dentistry.

If you've got the kind of drive it takes to become a CEO, you're going to make much more than a mid-200's salary in dentistry. A one-armed, one-eyed dentist with any work ethic and business savvy ought to be able to pull mid-200's after a few years of practice.

 

[leehrat]

Accounting is hit or miss, just like investment banking. I am an accounting major, and yes you can make a decent living as an accountant. Depending on where you are in the country 35-50 grand is what you will be starting at. Become a CPA and you will command on average about 75-90 grand a year. Not to bad for just needing a 4 year degree.

You would be very hard pressed to find an accountant earning in the mid 200's, but there are some with accounting backgrounds in business making MILLIONS. Look at the degree that most CEO's hold. The majority have an accounting background. So, if you think you have what it takes to become a CEO of a good size company, and do not mind waiting many many years to make big money, then go the accounting route. If you want guaranteed six figure income, like working with your hands, and enjoy patient interaction, then go with dentistry.

there are no accountants making 200k+ in their mid-30's, though i do agree that many CEO's were once accountants. but you're generally not going to become a CEO until you get into your 40's/50's, and then you'll be working 60+ hours/week. by any metric, dentistry wins.

 

[leehrat]

If you've got the kind of drive it takes to become a CEO, you're going to make much more than a mid-200's salary in dentistry. A one-armed, one-eyed dentist with any work ethic and business savvy ought to be able to pull mid-200's after a few years of practice.

what he said

 

[organichemistry]

If you've got the kind of drive it takes to become a CEO, you're going to make much more than a mid-200's salary in dentistry. A one-armed, one-eyed dentist with any work ethic and business savvy ought to be able to pull mid-200's after a few years of practice.

i don't know about this. if this was the case, more dentists would be making that much. i'm pretty sure for general practictioners, only like 10% exceed 250,000

 

[phremius]

dentists are paupers compared to these wage-earners....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/20060526/bs_usatoday/363misaveragepayfortophedgefundmanagers

 

[speedy3816]

dentists are paupers compared to these wage-earners....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/20060526/bs_usatoday/363misaveragepayfortophedgefundmanagers

wow! that is AMAZING... 😱 if you wanna be rich, you gotta work where the money is at. however, this must be taken w/ a slight grain of [salt], because I'm sure that, just like most other careers, it's really competitive and cutthroat. but anyways, the work is good if you can get it 👍

 

[stomatologist]

Any profession, particularly dentistry or medicine will give you a decent income and comfortable life.

Those coming into it for money will suffer from disappointment. If thats your case, invest the money it would cost you to come to dental school in a sound business. Thats the path to richness, not healthcare.

Besides, making money and the well being of patients are two concepts that dont mix too well.

My 2 cents as well

 

[OMFSCardsFan]

i don't know about this. if this was the case, more dentists would be making that much. i'm pretty sure for general practictioners, only like 10% exceed 250,000

So, are you saying that more than 10% of accountants end up being CEOs? My point is that you have a much better shot at making big bucks in dentistry than in accounting. I'm not trying to knock accountants...

 

[leehrat]

i don't know about this. if this was the case, more dentists would be making that much. i'm pretty sure for general practictioners, only like 10% exceed 250,000

keep in mind that the dental salaries that you see reported by the ADA aren't total compensation (ie they don't include 401k contributions, benefits, etc). total compensation for your avg general practicioner will be around 250k/yr

 

[TeethVader]

There is definitely money to be had, look hard and dont sell yourself short...$350/day is completely unacceptable.

totally!!!, Here in san diego Cali, Western Dental pays 500-550/day

 

[Lesley]

Very good and true post.

It's wonderful how everyone is totally missing the whole issue of my argument. Everyone is stuck on proving that "NOT EVERYONE WANTS TO MOVE TO LA/NYU...blah blah blah." Fine. Let me clear up my argument and then get some REAL responses.

I am SPECIFICALLY talking about the majority of students, which hail from California or New York, very big, highly competitive areas for dentists due to market saturation. We have people on this board thinking they will be making $200k a couple years out of d-school. THIS IS NOT THE CASE, and the reason why I am desperately trying to MAKE THIS CLEAR is that most people choosing to go to the HIGHLY expensive schools in those said states, USC and NYU in particular are setting themselves up for a harsh reality - once they graduate and can find jobs paying anywhere in Los Angeles, for instance, that only pay $80-90K for associates (which in these markets it is also very difficult to find lucrative profit sharing positions/production bonuses which do not have any "fine print" stipulations attached to the contracts) they will be the FIRST ones crying going to work.

Case in point: I had a cousin who graduated from UOP 5 years ago with $250K in student debts. Everyone thought wow! Dentistry in 3 years! He'll be a rich bastard by the time he's 28! He'll be making $250K when he's 30 etc etc. I specifically recall asking him about whether he is afraid of the huge debt he amassed during d-school, and he snapped his fingers and said paying it off is a cinch - only 8 to 10 years AT THE MOST.

Well, he graduated, works in downtown Los Angeles near where his parents lived, started out with $75,000 and has now, after 5 years of hard work, finally reached the $110,000 level.

He bitches all the time, "f*in student loans....those bastards at UOP.....should've gone somewhere cheaper etc etc." I swear I hear this garbage from him a lot. After taxes, his student loan payments, he has a very seemingly mediocre lifestyle - he lives in a 2 bedroom apartment in Westwood (a fairly swanky area) but the apartment is butt ugly and he bought a used BMW Z3 cause he wanted to have a pimped out car or whatever.

Now, before any of you start to say "oh yea he lives in Westwood blah blah" he could have only afforded a townhouse/condo in the San Fernando Valley (Encino or Woodland Hills, for example) for the same price he purchased his apartment, which is pretty sad for those of you familiar with the area. Anyways, that's my $.02 about reality of practicing in Los Angeles.

PS I've gone over this long post just to make sure that you people don't go off topic, but I just know some idiot will talk about his Z3 or something... 🙄

 

[worlddentist05]

There is definitely money to be had, look hard and dont sell yourself short...$350/day is completely unacceptable.

totally!!!, Here in san diego Cali, Western Dental pays 500-550/day

Well, if you are happy with the environment, it's acceptable. I work for a salary of $45/hr in a community clinic in a relaxed atmosphere seeing 10-15 patients a day. I have no need to rush or produce. I take my time and do my best work.
I do admit it can be stressful with some of the worst PITA patients coming here. They are always complaining, seeking drugs, showing no respect, scared out of their mind to see you (I cannot believe the cowardness of some these guys), noncompliant---all these while they don't even pay a penny. I personally do not understand these attitude.
But having said that, I would not trade this job for a $500/ day job. I am not envious of other dentists and even hygieniests who i know make more than I do. I know of several classmates 4 out year who are making between $500 to $900 a day. Key is: if you enjoy your work, you will stress out less and burn out in less years. Do not get me wrong, good quality work is hard tiring work but it's all worth it. Even at my salary of $90,000,
I can pay off my $220,000 debt (30 years payment) and still afford luxuries like vacations. I even bought a brand me Acura TL this year and
I making a payment of $575.month for this. My philosophy enjoy while you are young. When you are older, there is so much limitations.

 

[Cold Front]

Well, if you are happy with the environment, it's acceptable. I work for a salary of $45/hr in a community clinic in a relaxed atmosphere seeing 10-15 patients a day. I have no need to rush or produce. I take my time and do my best work.
I do admit it can be stressful with some of the worst PITA patients coming here. They are always complaining, seeking drugs, showing no respect, scared out of their mind to see you (I cannot believe the cowardness of some these guys), noncompliant---all these while they don't even pay a penny. I personally do not understand these attitude.
But having said that, I would not trade this job for a $500/ day job. I am not envious of other dentists and even hygieniests who i know make more than I do. I know of several classmates out 1 year who are making between $500 to $900 a day. Key is: if you enjoy your work, you will stress out less and burn out in less years. Do not get me wrong, good quality work is hard tiring work but it's all worth it. Even at my salary of $90,000,
I can pay off my $220,000 debt (30 years payment) and still afford luxuries like vacations. I even bought a brand me Acura TL this year and
I making a payment of $575.month for this. My philosophy enjoy while you are young. When you are older, there is so much limitations.

A very informative post. 👍

How long have you been practising?

 

[worlddentist05]

A very informative post. 👍

How long have you been practising?

I have out 4 years including a year of GPR.

 

[BuckyBoy_DDS]

My good friend was an electrical/computer engineer in college (just graduated this past May)..He was offered a job with Texas Instruments in the DFW starting out at $90k + bennys..

Now mind you, he had a 3.8 GPA in college (which is very, very tough for an engineering major at a major university, plus he designed some microchip for a project as well)

In 5 years, he'll easily be making $110-120k+, which is excellent considering all his college years where paid for by scholarship..

I think if you know you can do really well in engineering, from a financial sense, its the way to go for sure..

A couple of other guys i know that are engineering majors with around a 3.5 GPA are easily getting job offers starting at $70-75K..

 

[gator1210]

My good friend was an electrical/computer engineer in college (just graduated this past May)..He was offered a job with Texas Instruments in the DFW starting out at $90k + bennys..

Now mind you, he had a 3.8 GPA in college (which is very, very tough for an engineering major at a major university, plus he designed some microchip for a project as well)

In 5 years, he'll easily be making $110-120k+, which is excellent considering all his college years where paid for by scholarship..

I think if you know you can do really well in engineering, from a financial sense, its the way to go for sure..

A couple of other guys i know that are engineering majors with around a 3.5 GPA are easily getting job offers starting at $70-75K..

bachelors or masters...must be masters and must be up north bc those numbers are high. Both my bro (ee 3.5gpa) and my cousin(chem eng 4.0gpa), got offers at 55 and 60 respectively with relocation bonus.

they must have went to MIT or something "prestigous"

 

[lnn2]

Someone in Ohio won 265 million in the lottery. One person. Damn. Thats a good job.... 😱

Thats alot of exotic cars. Well, he will only get around 130 mill, bc uncle sam b**** slaps the winner and takes half, but yall get the point.

Man, that really sucks! ONLY 130 mill?!