proposed NY podiatry legislation

Started by JEWmongous
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JEWmongous

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Hello,
I noticed online that NY state currently has 2 different podiatry bills in the State Assembly/Senate. One of them is to change the legal name of "podiatrist" to "podiatric physician." The other one is to include the ankle and soft tissue up to the knee in the scope of practice. I believe a similar bill failed last year but I'm not positive. There's about 8 senators who introduced the bill. I would definitely like to see it pass!!!

Any of you know about the bills and how it is going up in Albany? I'm curious if there's a chance of the scope of practice bill to pass this year. Let me know what you think. Thanks and take care
 
JEWmongous said:
Hello,
I noticed online that NY state currently has 2 different podiatry bills in the State Assembly/Senate. One of them is to change the legal name of "podiatrist" to "podiatric physician." The other one is to include the ankle and soft tissue up to the knee in the scope of practice. I believe a similar bill failed last year but I'm not positive. There's about 8 senators who introduced the bill. I would definitely like to see it pass!!!

Any of you know about the bills and how it is going up in Albany? I'm curious if there's a chance of the scope of practice bill to pass this year. Let me know what you think. Thanks and take care
Click to expand...

NY is an interesting state. These bills should EASILY pass as there is really no argument concerning our training and nearly every other state has already passed such legislation. Pods from NYC literally drive across the bridge (NJ) and do all kinds of rearfoot/ankle procedures. Yet, in NY, they continue not to pass. I guess that's politics for ya!

I also often wonder how NYCPM can adequately teach students in a state with such a poor scope of practice.
 
JEWmongous said:
Hello,
I noticed online that NY state currently has 2 different podiatry bills in the State Assembly/Senate. One of them is to change the legal name of "podiatrist" to "podiatric physician." The other one is to include the ankle and soft tissue up to the knee in the scope of practice. I believe a similar bill failed last year but I'm not positive. There's about 8 senators who introduced the bill. I would definitely like to see it pass!!!

Any of you know about the bills and how it is going up in Albany? I'm curious if there's a chance of the scope of practice bill to pass this year. Let me know what you think. Thanks and take care
Click to expand...

If NY was to get the scope of practice bill passed, majority of the Podiatrist will not be able to do ankle surgery immediately. The reason for this is that the hospitals will need to rewrite the hospital bylaws to include the ankle privileges. If politics or Orthopedic Surgeons have a strong hold at the hospital, the rewrite in the hospital bylaws may take a long time.
 
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jonwill said:
NY is an interesting state. These bills should EASILY pass as there is really no argument concerning our training and nearly every other state has already passed such legislation. Pods from NYC literally drive across the bridge (NJ) and do all kinds of rearfoot/ankle procedures. Yet, in NY, they continue not to pass. I guess that's politics for ya!

I also often wonder how NYCPM can adequately teach students in a state with such a poor scope of practice.
Click to expand...

That is a very good question that I suggest you ask the administration and faculty at NYCPM. I am sick of banging my head against that brick wall.
 
jonwill said:
I also often wonder how NYCPM can adequately teach students in a state with such a poor scope of practice.
Click to expand...

If we see in that context, then i guess, Barry has advantage over others because of florida's scope of practice which includes even Leg. 🙂
 
I'm not sure how much they see but Iowa includes any structure that are part of the ankle, therefore, it covers soft tissue up to the knee. (Some pods fix any fracture of the tibia and fibula b/c they are structures of the ankle.
 
jonwill said:
NY is an interesting state. These bills should EASILY pass as there is really no argument concerning our training and nearly every other state has already passed such legislation. Pods from NYC literally drive across the bridge (NJ) and do all kinds of rearfoot/ankle procedures. Yet, in NY, they continue not to pass. I guess that's politics for ya!

I also often wonder how NYCPM can adequately teach students in a state with such a poor scope of practice.
Click to expand...

Don't wonder too much, our clinical skills far surpass any other school's, so we must be doing something right.
 
IlizaRob said:
Yeah, Krabmas! Stop complaining. 🙂
Click to expand...

Modpod posts 4 times and you believe every word he says?

How many residency interviews did you go on where they asked you to put a padding or strapping or cut nails in the interview?

SO what, I know how to see a patient and present and even what to do with them, but that is not what is asked in the residency interview.

If I was going straight to private practice the clinical skills would be more useful. Since podiatry has changed and we will all do residencies academic and medical knowledge is what gets you the residency. IMO.
 
yeah at the interview process, but don't forget that you also extern at these programs and this is where you display your clinical skills. The process just doesn't involve interviews and i believe their decision is based more on the rotation at the hospital than the interview.
 
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first of all anyone from the california school has about the worst clinical experience out of all the schools, but please let me know if your school's clinic sees about 50,000 patients per year. The only school that come's close is temple at about 35,000. This isn't to say that the other schools may be better at other things, i.e. I heard that the guys at Des Moines really know their jounal articles.
 
I don't want to sound insulting to any student or school but numbers are not everything. NYCPM and Temple have very busy clinics but how many students are working in the clinic???

We only have 3rd yeras in our clinics in DM, and our 4th years are out and about. So I would be bold enough to say that DMU students see more patients than any other school.

Most other programs have 2nd, 3rd, and 4th year students in the clinic. So lets look at NYCPM, 50,000 divided by 300 students........That is about 170 patients per student per year. I saw 140 patients in one month at Broadlawns.

Thanks for the complement about DMU knowing our articles. They chain us to the tables in the clinic and only feed us fish heads unless we can quote Kirby, Lemont, Lamm, ect.
 
Dr_Feelgood said:
I don't want to sound insulting to any student or school but numbers are not everything. NYCPM and Temple have very busy clinics but how many students are working in the clinic???

We only have 3rd yeras in our clinics in DM, and our 4th years are out and about. So I would be bold enough to say that DMU students see more patients than any other school.

Most other programs have 2nd, 3rd, and 4th year students in the clinic. So lets look at NYCPM, 50,000 divided by 300 students........That is about 170 patients per student per year. I saw 140 patients in one month at Broadlawns.

Thanks for the complement about DMU knowing our articles. They chain us to the tables in the clinic and only feed us fish heads unless we can quote Kirby, Lemont, Lamm, ect.
Click to expand...

I do not often defend my school but there has never and will never be 300 students working in the clinic at once. There is also more like 40,000 clinic visit per year and continuously dropping.

It is mostly 3rd years and 1/12 of the 4th years. The 4th years only do pod surgery rotation at the school in the 4th year. The other rotations are at externships, hospital pod clinics, ER, Internal Med, Gen Surg.

Even in the 3rd year not all the time is spent in the NYCPM clinic. Each of the 4 rotations has one day a week where a group of that rotation goes to the Metropolitan hospital pod clinic.

By the time we graduate from NYCPM most students are caught up with the academic info - journals and stuff. But when we first go out on externships we have to play a game of catch up. I would rather be prepared by the end of my 3rd year to go out and extern and interview.

NYCPM throws things into the end of the 4th year because they do not know where else to put it. For example - case presentations and journal club. It is too late if it is after externships and interviews.
 
We only have about 50 to 60 students in the clinic per day and we see well over 1000 patients per year at the clinic/metro per year per student. most days you will see about 7 patients as juniors, somedays more some days less but not usually. I also visited a program where the director stated that he felt the NY and Philly students had by far the best clinical skills and he had students from every school visit. Like I said earlier that is not to say that other schools do not have advantages in other areas, but i feel our school has that one advantage over the others.
 
👍
MODPOD said:
We only have about 50 to 60 students in the clinic per day and we see well over 1000 patients per year at the clinic/metro per year per student. most days you will see about 7 patients as juniors, somedays more some days less but not usually. I also visited a program where the director stated that he felt the NY and Philly students had by far the best clinical skills and he had students from every school visit. Like I said earlier that is not to say that other schools do not have advantages in other areas, but i feel our school has that one advantage over the others.
Click to expand...

That's all pretty subjective. Every program that I have visited has basically said that Scholl and DMU put out the best clinically and surgically sound students but it is all just opinion. The talking will be done Tuesday!!!!! :laugh:

Feelgood has a good point about clinic load. NY and Temple need to have huge patient volume because of the number of students. And if half of it is palliative care, that's not helping out too much. By the numbers stated above, we would need to have roughly a sixth of the patient load at our school to see the same number of patients that you guys at NY see. Needless to say our clinic patient load is much larger than 8,000 per year.

Since the beginning of my 3rd year, I have seen over 2,000 patients and I still have 3 months to go (not to mention I've scrubbed over 100 surgeries).

MODPOD and Krabmas, good luck with the match.
 
jonwill said:
👍

That's all pretty subjective. Every program that I have visited has basically said that Scholl and DMU put out the best clinically and surgically sound students but it is all just opinion. The talking will be done Tuesday!!!!! :laugh:

Feelgood has a good point about clinic load. NY and Temple need to have huge patient volume because of the number of students. And if half of it is palliative care, that's not helping out too much. By the numbers stated above, we would need to have roughly a sixth of the patient load at our school to see the same number of patients that you guys at NY see. Needless to say our clinic patient load is much larger than 8,000 per year.

Since the beginning of my 3rd year, I have seen over 2,000 patients and I still have 3 months to go (not to mention I've scrubbed over 100 surgeries).

MODPOD and Krabmas, good luck with the match.
Click to expand...

Yeah, and my mom makes better cookies than your mom.
 
MODPOD said:
first of all anyone from the california school has about the worst clinical experience out of all the schools, but please let me know if your school's clinic sees about 50,000 patients per year. The only school that come's close is temple at about 35,000. This isn't to say that the other schools may be better at other things, i.e. I heard that the guys at Des Moines really know their jounal articles.
Click to expand...

Temple sees over 50,000 patients a year, not 35,000.
 
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Jump to: navigation, search
The New York College of Podiatric Medicine is a private specialized college located in Manhattan in New York City. A minimum of 90 credit hours of undergraduate studies is a prerequisite for admission. New York College is the oldest and largest Podiatric School in the U.S. The Foot Clinics of New York, its associated training center, sees over 56,000 patient visits a year, making it the largest foot clinic in the world.

Argue with Wikipedia not me, and that is just the clinic not to mention all of the hospitals that we rotate through.
 
MODPOD said:
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Jump to: navigation, search
The New York College of Podiatric Medicine is a private specialized college located in Manhattan in New York City. A minimum of 90 credit hours of undergraduate studies is a prerequisite for admission. New York College is the oldest and largest Podiatric School in the U.S. The Foot Clinics of New York, its associated training center, sees over 56,000 patient visits a year, making it the largest foot clinic in the world.

Argue with Wikipedia not me, and that is just the clinic not to mention all of the hospitals that we rotate through.
Click to expand...

Oh god! Since when is Wikipedia considered a reliable source. Wikipedia is banned by many Univ Depts to be used a source of reference. Any Tom DICK HARRY can go and post any thing they like on Wikipedia. So whatever they type there is not 100% true.Please dont use Wikipedia as your source of reference.
 
i could always use the schools website (just kidding), but at least i found something to back what i was saying. Where is everyone elses proof, all i hear is a lot of numbers but no one has presented anything but talk. At least i found something to back it up
 
cool_vkb said:
Oh god! Since when is Wikipedia considered a reliable source. Wikipedia is banned by many Univ Depts to be used a source of reference. Any Tom DICK HARRY can go and post any thing they like on Wikipedia. So whatever they type there is not 100% true.Please dont use Wikipedia as your source of reference.
Click to expand...

:laugh: :laugh:

Don't get mad cause he bagged your source. I just don't care. NYCPM and Temple can say they are the best at clinics. Since only 50-60% of those classes pass Part I of the boards, so we only need to compete with half of you. :meanie:
 
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I don't know what New yorks pass rate is but Temples is much higher that 60 %. And MODPOD, it is true wikipedia is not a great source. Use something reliable next time to back up your claims or soon you will be labeled as a crack pot.:laugh:
 
MODPOD said:
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Jump to: navigation, search
The New York College of Podiatric Medicine is a private specialized college located in Manhattan in New York City. A minimum of 90 credit hours of undergraduate studies is a prerequisite for admission. New York College is the oldest and largest Podiatric School in the U.S. The Foot Clinics of New York, its associated training center, sees over 56,000 patient visits a year, making it the largest foot clinic in the world.

Argue with Wikipedia not me, and that is just the clinic not to mention all of the hospitals that we rotate through.
Click to expand...

Might want to take a look at this before you use wikipedia for a source.

http://edition.cnn.com/2007/TECH/internet/03/08/wikipedia.credentials.ap/index.html
 
bdaddyjolley said:
I don't know what New yorks pass rate is but Temples is much higher that 60 %
Click to expand...

I hate to tell you bud that it is not. They may tell you otherwise but they will not release their scores publicly. I'm sure the Deans all know. From my understanding they went from the 90s to the 50s since the changes have occurred with how the boards are given. (i.e. post 2001 cheating scandal)

If you don't believe me check out the only mention of the NBPME boards on the Temple website.

Students: TUSPM continues to address issues with student performance on Parts I and II of the NBPME examinations by increasing the minimum MCAT score for new student admission for the second consecutive year.

http://www.temple.edu/budget/documents/BUDGETBOOKversion_5.pdf This quote is from the bottom of page 133.​

I think that they need to make changes to the curriculum also, but definitely increase the minimum MCAT scores.
 
my class (NYCPM 2007) had an 88% pass rate out of about 70 some odd students taking it, but nice try Dr. Feelgood.
 
MODPOD said:
my class (NYCPM 2007) had an 88% pass rate out of about 70 some odd students taking it, but nice try Dr. Feelgood.
Click to expand...

Okay. You can claim what you will but there is no proof b/c your school hides the pass rates. I also highly doubt it. Everyone likes to say that they are above the national average but mathmatically it is impossible. Are you talking about 1st time pass rates or overall? Here are the only 2 schools that disclose the first time pass rates for the class of 2007 (2005 Part I NBPME results) to the public.

National average 78%
DMU 96.2%
Scholl 94%

So if you take those students out of the national average you are looking at about a 60% pass rate. I'd be happy to believe you about pass rates if you can convince your school leaders to be more open and honest about their outcomes.

P.S. I'm not saying that the leaders of our professions cannot come from anywhere but DMU or Scholl. I just think that it is criminal that some schools take money from students and give them a poor education in return. Heck some schools will let you graduate without ever passing the boards, so what can you do with your degree? I would like to see open disclosure of outcomes to force these schools to improve their outcomes or lose all the applicants.
 
THe class size for 2010 is about 120 and dropping daily.

The class for 2007 is now at 69 students maybe only 68 will actually graduate in May.

I do not know the class size for 2008 or 2009 but neither of them are even at 100. Both are 80ish.

The board pass rate for NYCPM 2007 part 1 for 1st time takers was 88%. We had 8 people fail out of 72 people take the test.

This pass rate was reported in the President's Report for NYCPM at one of the APMSA meetings this year.

It is true that the pass rate for 2008 part 1 at NYCPM was considerably lower than 2007's and that class has higher MCATs, DATs and GPAs than us as incoming students.
 
Thank you Sam. Well that means we can figure out where the othe schools Class of 2007 sits.

National average 78%
DMU 96.2%
Scholl 94%
NYCPM 88%

That means that the rest of the schools are now down in the 50% range.

I think that this is a great idea. If the schools won't report the first time pass rates we can post them here. It will force the head of some of the school leaders. So what were the 1st time rates for the class of 2008.

National average 81%
AZPod 100%
DMU 40/41 = 98%
 
Dr_Feelgood said:
Thank you Sam. Well that means we can figure out where the othe schools Class of 2007 sits.

National average 78%
DMU 96.2%
Scholl 94%
NYCPM 88%

That means that the rest of the schools are now down in the 50% range.

I think that this is a great idea. If the schools won't report the first time pass rates we can post them here. It will force the head of some of the school leaders. So what were the 1st time rates for the class of 2008.

National average 81%
AZPod 100%
DMU 40/41 = 98%
Click to expand...


I am not 100% sure but for NYCPM 2008 it was something around 71%
Cali I heard was around 50% (again not 100% sure)

you can post these but do not label them as fact.
 
I think a lot of what may be happening is that schools don't distinguish between "first-time" pass rate and the overall pass rate. For instance, DMU states that they had a 98% first time pass rate as opposed to a 100% overall pass rate (one student failed in July, then took it again in October and passed). I'm sure that a fair amount of the people at the other schools that fail in July take it and pass in October.

I'm convinced that their is a huge difference between the first time board pass rates (July) and the overall pass rates (July + October).
 
Agreed, but they have said that most people who fail once, fail again. That plays into the concept of the validity of the test.

That is why these schools that are in the 50% are doing a grave injustice.
 
Dr_Feelgood said:
Agreed, but they have said that most people who fail once, fail again. That plays into the concept of the validity of the test.

That is why these schools that are in the 50% are doing a grave injustice.
Click to expand...


The more I think about it, the more it appears there isn't much of a governing body over the schools. Looking at MD/DO/DDS programs (and probably others), they are tightly regulated with uniformed standards (concerning boards). The DO 07's that failed part one of the COMLEX weren't aloud to start rotating until they passed it.

There needs to be a national rule that you cannot graduate without passing part one and two of the boards. I wish the CPME was able to do that. It would really start cleaning the profession up. The fact of the matter is that, right now, schools largely do what they want. You push a guy through school that can't pass boards and he ultimately graduates and fails. Then, all you have is one more "podiatry-hater".

How do we go about doing this? Ideas?
 
jonwill said:
The more I think about it, the more it appears there isn't much of a governing body over the schools. Looking at MD/DO/DDS programs (and probably others), they are tightly regulated with uniformed standards (concerning boards). The DO 07's that failed part one of the COMLEX weren't aloud to start rotating until they passed it.

There needs to be a national rule that you cannot graduate without passing part one and two of the boards. I wish the CPME was able to do that. It would really start cleaning the profession up. The fact of the matter is that, right now, schools largely do what they want. You push a guy through school that can't pass boards and he ultimately graduates and fails. Then, all you have is one more "podiatry-hater".

How do we go about doing this? Ideas?
Click to expand...

👍 👍 👍
 
OK so this is a bit OT but somewhat related to what has been discussed here as of late. I am a pre-pod student so this is relevant to me and i cant seem to figure this out.

I am hoping some of the upper years can clear this up for me.

From what i understand so far there are 3 schools graduating (passing boards) close to 100% of their students and 4 passing significantly less (50-60%). From what i have seen the enterance averages for the schools are all simliar (~3-3.5). Most students are around the same age and have a similar amount of student with degrees, etc.

First i thought that perhaps the schools that are doing poorly are not teaching their students enough or in depth enough for their students to succeed. But if there are 50 - 60% of the students from the "lesser" schools passing then that cant be the case as they clearly were taught enough to pass. So I cant figure out where/why there is such a huge difference between the "better" schools and the "lesser" schools to account for the difference in students passing the boards.
 
znl343 said:
OK so this is a bit OT but somewhat related to what has been discussed here as of late. I am a pre-pod student so this is relevant to me and i cant seem to figure this out.

I am hoping some of the upper years can clear this up for me.

From what i understand so far there are 3 schools graduating (passing boards) close to 100% of their students and 4 passing significantly less (50-60%). From what i have seen the enterance averages for the schools are all simliar (~3-3.5). Most students are around the same age and have a similar amount of student with degrees, etc.

First i thought that perhaps the schools that are doing poorly are not teaching their students enough or in depth enough for their students to succeed. But if there are 50 - 60% of the students from the "lesser" schools passing then that cant be the case as they clearly were taught enough to pass. So I cant figure out where/why there is such a huge difference between the "better" schools and the "lesser" schools to account for the difference in students passing the boards.
Click to expand...


This is my take on the issue.

The averages are all about the same for GPA and MCAT scores. But DAT scores and GRE are not compared. Smarter students must take the MCAT so that those are the averages compared, also the lowest scores may be lower and the highest scores higher for some of the "bottom" schools.

If the bottom schools got rid of the bottom 50% of the class the pass rates might also shoot through the roof.

In addition...

For this I can only speak of my experience but...
If the administration preaches that everyone will get a residency and there is no need to get A's and C's equal degrees, if you do not know any better it is very easy to buy into that and just pass your classes with C's. This makes it hard to pass the boards.

It is also hard to pass the boards if you had to re-eval all your classes or remediate them. Some schools give the students so many chances to pass the classes that it makes you wonder if some of these students know anything at all?

Maybe that qxplains the disparity?
 
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znl343 said:
OK so this is a bit OT but somewhat related to what has been discussed here as of late. I am a pre-pod student so this is relevant to me and i cant seem to figure this out.

I am hoping some of the upper years can clear this up for me.

From what i understand so far there are 3 schools graduating (passing boards) close to 100% of their students and 4 passing significantly less (50-60%). From what i have seen the enterance averages for the schools are all simliar (~3-3.5). Most students are around the same age and have a similar amount of student with degrees, etc.

First i thought that perhaps the schools that are doing poorly are not teaching their students enough or in depth enough for their students to succeed. But if there are 50 - 60% of the students from the "lesser" schools passing then that cant be the case as they clearly were taught enough to pass. So I cant figure out where/why there is such a huge difference between the "better" schools and the "lesser" schools to account for the difference in students passing the boards.
Click to expand...

I think that it is a the two factors as stated.

1) Less qualified applicants

The schools are starting to spread when it comes to stats especially as some schools only accept the MCAT. DMU's profile for the class of 2011 is about a 3.4, 24. Most of the other schools are still around 21 to 22.​

2) Issues with the curriculum

The stronger programs will see lesser students fail classes. Remember at DMU and AZPod, the students must compete with the DOs.​

3) Some schools offer professionals educators that improve the board outcomes via reviews and improving study skills.
 
krabmas said:
This is my take on the issue.

The averages are all about the same for GPA and MCAT scores. But DAT scores and GRE are not compared. Smarter students must take the MCAT so that those are the averages compared, also the lowest scores may be lower and the highest scores higher for some of the "bottom" schools.

If the bottom schools got rid of the bottom 50% of the class the pass rates might also shoot through the roof.
Click to expand...

I started to make the same comment but Sam beat me too it.
 
jonwill said:
...I'm convinced that their is a huge difference between the first time board pass rates (July) and the overall pass rates (July + October).
Click to expand...
I'm sure this is true.^

It also has to be taken into account that some students don't take the exam in July for whatever reason: didn't have the $ to register, didn't feel they'd pass, thought there would be a better curve in Oct, etc. I'm not saying that's right or wrong, but it happens. A sizable number of those students who did not sit for the exam in July but passed in Oct (their "first time") do pass, but they probably get marked statistically as "did not pass" for July and the school's statistics from NBPME.

Hypothetical example:
The reported July pass rate for a school is "60%"... but that fails to take into account that only 75% of the class tested in July while the rest waited until October. The real pass rate was 80% of those July testers at that school.

krabmas said:
...The class for 2007 is now at 69 students maybe only 68 will actually graduate in May...
Click to expand...
Cmon, krambas^^, you can do it 😀
 
Feli said:
I'm sure this is true.^

It also has to be taken into account that some students don't take the exam in July for whatever reason: didn't have the $ to register, didn't feel they'd pass, thought there would be a better curve in Oct, etc. I'm not saying that's right or wrong, but it happens. A sizable number of those students who did not sit for the exam in July but passed in Oct (their "first time") do pass, but they probably get marked statistically as "did not pass" for July and the school's statistics from NBPME.

Hypothetical example:
The reported July pass rate for a school is "60%"... but that fails to take into account that only 75% of the class tested in July while the rest waited until October. The real pass rate was 80% of those July testers at that school.
Click to expand...


At nYCPM the pass rate is based on the number of people that took the test not the total number in the class.

I do not know how other schools reprot their rates.

The NBPME does not publish or report pass rates of each school. So it is not up to them on how to report them.
 
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