Pros and Cons of your DO School

[Black Coffee 24/7]

Do you guys think your run of the mill mid tier allopathic school prepares you better for boards than say a pcom or dmu? If so why?

I’ll tell you why a low tier allopathic school does a better job:

4-5 hrs a week of extra time wasted on OMM that could be used on research or mental health

4-5 hrs a week wasted on so called Clinical Medicine where I often don’t learn jack except an OSCE algorithm in order to pass SP encounters

Considering the amount of time spent on clinical medicine, the teaching on lung sounds, heart sounds, X-ray readings, and EKG readings are straight trash. It’s a damn joke that I learn the basic clinicals from board prep materials like UW in a quest stem instead of hrs spent in lecture.

Let’s not forget the threats of OMM failure derailing your board prep schedule or possibly force a repeat year. I have heard of students repeating an entire first year due to a written OMM exam failure. This person was acing classes with 95+ average before that.

On a personal note, I was called into the office near the end of 2nd year for a OMM failure and threatened with a repeat 2nd yr despite passing every class with flying colors. For a four week dedicated period, they literally squeeze in bs into that schedule cutting my effective dedicated to 3 week on top of the stress from board.

Admin talks about caring for their students mental health. However, their action says otherwise. The stupidity and lack of common sense from the clinical department during third year don’t get any better. However, I don’t deal with the day to day bs as much anymore. My stress level is nearly shaved in half and I’m happier than ever despite working 12 hrs a day on top of 5 hrs of studying on top of that.

My wife has commented on my improved mood and how I smile more often nowadays. I respect my DO FM faculty at school. However, I don’t own them jack for my own success. They can suck it. I will personally reject all attempts made by the school in the future to use me as a success story for their brand.

The only good thing about witnessing the daily incompetence from my FM faculty is to realize their flaws and strive to be better than that as a physician. In essence, that’s pathetic. I expect more for a 50-55K annual tuition education.

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[sab3156]

Do you guys think your run of the mill mid tier allopathic school prepares you better for boards than say a pcom or dmu? If so why?

Lol yes, and it isn't even a fair comparison. After taking many medical school classes at BUSM (okay, so it may be an upper mid-tier, top 30 allopathic school), it is obvious that the professors that were considered "bad" at that school are light years ahead of any professor I have seen at my school in terms of teaching effectiveness, knowledge of their subject, and understanding what is important for Step 1 (with the exception of one immunology professor at my school who is an MD/PhD with experience teaching at an MD school... everyone else is either kind of clueless or straight garbage). I also have enough close friends at tons of MD schools to know that DO schools are nowhere close to mid tier MD schools. KCU's Step 1 average is below the national average even with its self-selected pool of the better students taking it. That is just sad.

 

[shadowlightfox]

4-5 hrs a week wasted on so called Clinical Medicine where I often don’t learn jack except an OSCE algorithm in order to pass SP encounters

Wow, ONLY 4-5 hours? You better count your blessings because it's not at least 20 hours like in my school....

 

[alprazoslam]

I’ll tell you why a low tier allopathic school does a better job:

4-5 hrs a week of extra time wasted on OMM that could be used on research or mental health

4-5 hrs a week wasted on so called Clinical Medicine where I often don’t learn jack except an OSCE algorithm in order to pass SP encounters

Considering the amount of time spent on clinical medicine, the teaching on lung sounds, heart sounds, X-ray readings, and EKG readings are straight trash. It’s a damn joke that I learn the basic clinicals from board prep materials like UW in a quest stem instead of hrs spent in lecture.

Let’s not forget the threats of OMM failure derailing your board prep schedule or possibly force a repeat year. I have heard of students repeating an entire first year due to a written OMM exam failure. This person was acing classes with 95+ average before that.

On a personal note, I was called into the office near the end of 2nd year for a OMM failure and threatened with a repeat 2nd yr despite passing every class with flying colors. For a four week dedicated period, they literally squeeze in bs into that schedule cutting my effective dedicated to 3 week on top of the stress from board.

Admin talks about caring for their students mental health. However, their action says otherwise. The stupidity and lack of common sense from the clinical department during third year don’t get any better. However, I don’t deal with the day to day bs as much anymore. My stress level is nearly shaved in half and I’m happier than ever despite working 12 hrs a day on top of 5 hrs of studying on top of that.

My wife has commented on my improved mood and how I smile more often nowadays. I respect my DO FM faculty at school. However, I don’t own them jack for my own success. They can suck it. I will personally reject all attempts made by the school in the future to use me as a success story for their brand.

The only good thing about witnessing the daily incompetence from my FM faculty is to realize their flaws and strive to be better than that as a physician. In essence, that’s pathetic. I expect more for a 50-55K annual tuition education.

I agree. Not to hate on fm but for some reason the FM faculty are the worst at my school too. Not to mention we have some faculty who never did a residency. Not sure what experience they bring to the table without residency. But one has to imagine your IQ has to be pretty low if all you could get was FM 20 years ago from a DO school. Half of them can’t even put together a power point lecture that makes any sense at all.
They think they are awesome though if you talk to them. Probably the only worse ppl are the omm department.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

My school when factored for inflation would be about 60k per year today, so not necessarily cheaper. Good residencies were always competetive. Agree that there is much more competetion today. Top 1/3 of our class does not have problems matching. Most match data except for most competetive slots you have better than 60% chances of matching. I come on this site to offer advice and encouragement, along with some truth, which might not be popular. I feel sadness
that you worked so hard to become a DO and this is your perception. Allopathic students have the same complaints, my wife and I were married as med students, and her notes were no different than mine. I have found MD students to be bright and lazy, wanting to be spoon fed everything. My DO students have a higher degree of intellectual curiosity. This is a quality imperative for a life long learner. Be careful who you judge as a PC. Some of the smartest people I know are PC's. Many enter as a choice rather than mandated by low scores and class rank. Just my 2 cents. Your unhappiness is understandable as med school is a miserable time in your life. Good luck and best wishes

 

[Ho0v-man]

Just to throw this out there for any of the pre meds reading:

I really do complain a lot about my school, mostly omm and crazy tuition. But it’s nowhere near as bad as what these folks are apparently experiencing. I have gripes sure, but I really do feel like I’m being adequately prepared to be a physician.

 

[Black Coffee 24/7]

Just to throw this out there for any of the pre meds reading:

I really do complain a lot about my school, mostly omm and crazy tuition. But it’s nowhere near as bad as what these folks are apparently experiencing. I have gripes sure, but I really do feel like I’m being adequately prepared to be a physician.

How are you so sure that you’re being adequately prepared to be a physician? I’m one of the fortunate few of my class to rotate with MD preceptors that normally have MD residents of so and so specialties.

I can honestly with a fact that my preclinical ed has been trash in preparing me for Step 1 and for third year clinicals. It has been embarrassing. Thank god that my preceptors have been generous enough to adequately prepare me for the expectations of intern year.

 

[Ho0v-man]

How are you so sure that you’re being adequately prepared to be a physician? I’m one of the fortunate few of my class to rotate with MD preceptors that normally have MD residents of so and so specialties.

I can honestly with a fact that my preclinical ed has been trash in preparing me for Step 1 and for third year clinicals. It has been embarrassing. Thank god that my preceptors have been generous enough to adequately prepare me for the expectations of intern year.

Ive had some rough patches where I’ve been “wtf” by some of my classes and i have some faculty that just aren’t good teachers. But that isn’t something unique to osteopathic schools. Yeah it could be better, but you’d be hard pressed to find anyone at an MD school who doesn’t say the same about their school.

On the other hand, I’ve had some blocks where the material we’ve covered went WAAAYYYY past anything in first aid, brs, pathoma, etc. I mean like to the point where that stuff seems like a sneeze compared to the rigors of my classes.

Prior to med school i worked at a hospital that took med students from the well regarded state MD as well as some DO schools. Dude, everyone sucks at the beginning of third year. Anyone who thinks they dont probably just suck AND don’t realize they suck (which is worse). The MDs i shadowed and worked with said themselves they couldn’t tell a difference. Do you think every MD student waltzes out of preclinicals fully prepared for third year? If there was absolutely nothing to learn then what would be the point?

Keep in mind, I’m not defending all of the problems with poor clinical sites in third year, crazy over emphasis on omm, or worthless bs time wasting classes taught by professors that dont even try to have a clue. There’s always room to improve. I’m just pointing out to premeds reading this that yes it is possible to learn to be a doctor at a DO school and just because there’s plenty wrong with some schools, doesn’t mean you’re doomed to be a subpar physician by attending one.

I shall now sit back and bask in the flames.

 

[Luftwaffle]

I added my thoughts on DCOM

@alprazoslam hit most of the points. ive had personal issues with faculty and honestly had awful pre-clinical years. Third year was a mixed bag. My biggest issues have been having no advising or connection with upperclassman/alumni or even fellow students at some points. I've seen a handful of my peers on clinicals and spending all day with private practice physicians who are 10+ years outside of residency really have no idea whats going on with boards/applications/academic medicine. unless you're going into PM&R, FM or IM, there is really no one on faculty who can help guide you to residency. i really dont recommend anyone coming here unless its your last choice, sorry not sorry. D-

Hold on a second...are you referring to DCOM in Des Moines or LMU-DCOM in TN?

 

[hallowmann]

Hold on a second...are you referring to DCOM in Des Moines or LMU-DCOM in TN?

Generally speaking, Des Moines is referred to as DMU and DCOM is LMU-DCOM.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

Ive had some rough patches where I’ve been “wtf” by some of my classes and i have some faculty that just aren’t good teachers. But that isn’t something unique to osteopathic schools. Yeah it could be better, but you’d be hard pressed to find anyone at an MD school who doesn’t say the same about their school.

On the other hand, I’ve had some blocks where the material we’ve covered went WAAAYYYY past anything in first aid, brs, pathoma, etc. I mean like to the point where that stuff seems like a sneeze compared to the rigors of my classes.

Prior to med school i worked at a hospital that took med students from the well regarded state MD as well as some DO schools. Dude, everyone sucks at the beginning of third year. Anyone who thinks they dont probably just suck AND don’t realize they suck (which is worse). The MDs i shadowed and worked with said themselves they couldn’t tell a difference. Do you think every MD student waltzes out of preclinicals fully prepared for third year? If there was absolutely nothing to learn then what would be the point?

Keep in mind, I’m not defending all of the problems with poor clinical sites in third year, crazy over emphasis on omm, or worthless bs time wasting classes taught by professors that dont even try to have a clue. There’s always room to improve. I’m just pointing out to premeds reading this that yes it is possible to learn to be a doctor at a DO school and just because there’s plenty wrong with some schools, doesn’t mean you’re doomed to be a subpar physician by attending one.

I shall now sit back and bask in the flames.

Let me throw some water on the flames. You said what I have been saying in other threads.

MD students have the same complaints about their school. I have taught them and wife is one. Insecurity about one's medical knowledge at beginning of yr 3 is universal. The reason you feel that way is because you really dont know that much yet. It takes 7-8 yrs of medical training and about 5 years of clinical practice to master your specialty.

As far as OMM, it is like any other medical modality. For any treatment to be effective, you first need an accurate diagnosis. Penicillin is not appropriate for every sore throat and OMM is not appropriate for all cases of back pain. You already know the contraindications. Inappropriate application of any modality will produce sketchy results, and you are hoping for the body to heal itself. OMM is a clinical modality and often doesn't translate well in a preclinical setting with student patients having minimal to mild dysfunctions. Also, once your colleagues realize you are a DO, they will constantly bug you to treat them with OMT.

Lastly, there are only so many university clinical teaching sites. All teaching faculty are under the stress of productivity and research. Teaching takes time. Period. Many schools dont compensate preceptors. So what are they they do? Teach or not meet their RVU requirements for salary or miss their target for bonus? This is why many clinical sites drop or dont take students.

If you have a crappy rotation, take that frustration and turn it into something positive. Find a relevant topic research it, or ask to give a presentation on it
No better way to learn something than to teach it. Hope this helps. Good luck and best wishes!

 

[hallowmann]

How are you so sure that you’re being adequately prepared to be a physician? I’m one of the fortunate few of my class to rotate with MD preceptors that normally have MD residents of so and so specialties.

I can honestly with a fact that my preclinical ed has been trash in preparing me for Step 1 and for third year clinicals. It has been embarrassing. Thank god that my preceptors have been generous enough to adequately prepare me for the expectations of intern year.

Upon entering 3rd year and doing multiple rotations alongside mid-tier MD students and after finishing intern year it was clear that my training was on par with that of MD students/graduates that I've interacted with. I was equally unprepared for 3rd year and subsequently intern year as all the other MDs I was with.

Clinical research is probably the only area that I feel they are more prepared with, and that's even from someone with a strong pre-med school research background and a few projects in 3rd/4th yr.

As for Step 1, yeah their schools probably prepared them better than mine, but that's what dedicated study was for.

 

[sab3156]

As far as OMM, it is like any other medical modality. For any treatment to be effective, you first need an accurate diagnosis.

For any treatment to be effective, it actually has to work. OMM has no proven efficacy, so you sound like someone saying "for homeopathy to work, you first need an accurate diagnosis."

As for Step 1, yeah their schools probably prepared them better than mine, but that's what dedicated study was for.

What? So you think dedicated period is enough to make up for DO schools having horrendously unequipped faculty and courses? 2 years of horrible courses designed to screw you for Step 1 cannot be solved by a dedicated study period.

 

[shadowlightfox]

As for Step 1, yeah their schools probably prepared them better than mine, but that's what dedicated study was for.

The hell you smoking? MD schools have dedicated, too.

 

[Chibucks15]

Personally I'd trust the resident and attending physician who have actual medical experiences over the disgruntled 2nd years who haven't stepped foot outside a classroom but hey that's just me. If you're so appalled by your school, go do something about it, or reconcile yourself to the fact that you chose to go to a DO school. Every well-meaning thread about Pros and Cons and actually trying to decide on a school for applicants turns into 1 of the same 4 people taking dumps on their school and making blanket statements about DO schools as a whole. Ya don't like it? Get off the anonymous message board and change something.

There's a lot that most schools suck at, both MD and DO. Yes DO schools have much much more to work on (no denying that) but many of the same complaints DO students have, MD students do too. Every thread on here devolves into this and its ridiculous and comes across like petulant children

 

[KeikoTanaka]

Eh, this school changed its attendance and lecture recording policy right before school started so no students could leave the program to go to another acceptance. It's not TOURO levels of messed up like a few years ago but it's still awful.

Touro is honestly amazing, and I love it. As a first year, I have no complaints, now, this isn't Harlem so I can't speak for Harlem. Middletown has very dedicated faculty members and I am enjoying the reverse classroom giving me freedom to study and learn at my pace. We also have nice rotations given we don't have any other med schools competing for our hospitals. I can't speak for Touro a few years ago however.

 

[Neopolymath]

Touro is honestly amazing, and I love it. As a first year, I have no complaints, now, this isn't Harlem so I can't speak for Harlem. Middletown has very dedicated faculty members and I am enjoying the reverse classroom giving me freedom to study and learn at my pace. We also have nice rotations given we don't have any other med schools competing for our hospitals. I can't speak for Touro a few years ago however.

I'm referring specifically to what their adcom did a few years ago with over accepting students...

 

[calbear20]

Do you go to KCU? You sound like you have some major gripes with the school lol

Lol yes, and it isn't even a fair comparison. After taking many medical school classes at BUSM (okay, so it may be an upper mid-tier, top 30 allopathic school), it is obvious that the professors that were considered "bad" at that school are light years ahead of any professor I have seen at my school in terms of teaching effectiveness, knowledge of their subject, and understanding what is important for Step 1 (with the exception of one immunology professor at my school who is an MD/PhD with experience teaching at an MD school... everyone else is either kind of clueless or straight garbage). I also have enough close friends at tons of MD schools to know that DO schools are nowhere close to mid tier MD schools. KCU's Step 1 average is below the national average even with its self-selected pool of the better students taking it. That is just sad.

 

[Angus Avagadro]

For any treatment to be effective, it actually has to work. OMM has no proven efficacy, so you sound like someone saying "for homeopathy to work, you first need an accurate diagnosis."



What? So you think dedicated period is enough to make up for DO schools having horrendously unequipped faculty and courses? 2 years of horrible courses designed to screw you for Step 1 cannot be solved by a dedicated study period.

OMM has no proven efficacy? Really? You should ask for your tuition back. Plenty of research to indicate OMM is helpful with ADL's. Use the GOOGLE. However I'm sure that you will be more than willing to prescribe stimulants for ADHD patients though they have never been shown to change outcomes with respect to drug abuse, anti social behavior, college grad, etc.No diagnosis in the ICD 10 that has more research performed on it.Sorry for the snooty post, but this reminds me of my MD students, didn't know the right answer, but were never in doubt about the answer they provided. You should have a little more intellectual curiosity

 

[sab3156]

OMM has no proven efficacy? Really? You should ask for your tuition back. Plenty of research to indicate OMM is helpful with ADL's. Use the GOOGLE. However I'm sure that you will be more than willing to prescribe stimulants for ADHD patients though they have never been shown to change outcomes with respect to drug abuse, anti social behavior, college grad, etc.No diagnosis in the ICD 10 that has more research performed on it.Sorry for the snooty post, but this reminds me of my MD students, didn't know the right answer, but were never in doubt about the answer they provided. You should have a little more intellectual curiosity

You sound like a chiropractor.

 

[Hippocrates II]

Do you go to KCU? You sound like you have some major gripes with the school lol

I just started at KCU and I already have gripes. I'm sure they're really no worse than any other DO school, but for a school that has a "no attendance required" policy I sure seem to be spending a lot of my days on campus... it really makes it hard to be efficient and not spend my entire day studying when I'm constantly having my studying interrupted to head to campus for random (and often unimportant) required attendance gatherings.

 

[calbear20]

That's fair. Unfortunately that's the life at KCU. This year's class average is sitting just below the national average ~228. I think that's a huge accomplishment all things considered. You will feel overworked during your time there but keep trucking.

I just started at KCU and I already have gripes. I'm sure they're really no worse than any other DO school, but for a school that has a "no attendance required" policy I sure seem to be spending a lot of my days on campus... it really makes it hard to be efficient and not spend my entire day studying when I'm constantly having my studying interrupted to head to campus for random (and often unimportant) required attendance gatherings.

 

[Black Coffee 24/7]

I just started at KCU and I already have gripes. I'm sure they're really no worse than any other DO school, but for a school that has a "no attendance required" policy I sure seem to be spending a lot of my days on campus... it really makes it hard to be efficient and not spend my entire day studying when I'm constantly having my studying interrupted to head to campus for random (and often unimportant) required attendance gatherings.

The "no attendance required" policy across DOs is just bs. I also go to a "no attendance required" school. For my first two years, I lived about 100 miles from campus and had to drive to school on average 3 times a week. Obviously, I wasn't very happy.

 

[calbear20]

~180 took it which is more than half. And many people chose not to take step for a variety of reasons. School adamantly told everyone they wouldn't need to, going into fam med or some form of primary care where they felt they didn't need to, etc.

? Except not even 1/2 the class took it....

 

[Chibucks15]

The "no attendance required" policy across DOs is just bs. I also go to a "no attendance required" school. For my first two years, I lived about 100 miles from campus and had to drive to school on average 3 times a week. Obviously, I wasn't very happy.

Blanket statements don't work. I go to a no attendance school and we have like 1 or 2 classes that are mandatory, including OMM, that take up maybe an hour or two a day. I'm barely on campus ever.

EDIT: an hour or two a day, for maybe 3 days a week.

Who's choice was it to live 100 miles from school? This ain't the university of phoenix man that just sounds like a you problem not a school problem. I mean you can't honestly expect to not have to go in AT ALL to your medical school. Anatomy lab, clinical skills, OSCEs, other mandatory stuff that's at every school you should know you'll be on campus at some point

 

[calbear20]

Also want to remind you that with an average of 228 and a sample size of 180.... you do realize that there are MANY MD schools with comparable class sizes if not significantly smaller than that right?

? Except not even 1/2 the class took it....

 

[calbear20]

 

[sab3156]

That's fair. Unfortunately that's the life at KCU. This year's class average is sitting just below the national average ~228. I think that's a huge accomplishment all things considered. You will feel overworked during your time there but keep trucking.

Lol you're talking about a below average step 1 with mainly the better half of the class taking it... look at RVU, which does better than KCU on COMLEX, and forces everyone to take Step 1. Their average last year was 220. Average score of a self-selected pool of students is totally useless, and to cite it here as some sort od achievement is dishonest at best.

 

[Chibucks15]

Lol you're talking about a below average step 1 with mainly the better half of the class taking it...

my god man just transfer if you're going to dump on your school so much. With all the KCU people on here I'm surprised this hasn't come back on your head at least once

 

[calbear20]

Haha you're going to hinge to a 1 point difference? Okay. Please look at our MD counterparts in the state averages and get back to me. Sorry KCU didn't give you the bang for your buck you were looking for but

Lol you're talking about a below average step 1 with mainly the better half of the class taking it...

 

[Black Coffee 24/7]

Blanket statements don't work. I go to a no attendance school and we have like 1 or 2 classes that are mandatory, including OMM, that take up maybe an hour or two a day. I'm barely on campus ever.

EDIT: an hour or two a day, for maybe 3 days a week.

Who's choice was it to live 100 miles from school? This ain't the university of phoenix man that just sounds like a you problem not a school problem. I mean you can't honestly expect to not have to go in AT ALL to your medical school. Anatomy lab, clinical skills, OSCEs, other mandatory stuff that's at every school you should know you'll be on campus at some point

Count your blessing that your school actually abides by the policy of "no attendance" policy

Lastly, there are many reasons for someone people to live 100 miles away from school, including surrounding school safety, quality of school, spouse's job placement, living cost, etc...

But, none of these stuff matter. The bottom line is that if a school says "no mandatory attendance," it should mean no bs clicker quiz classes and no small group activities. I punted all of my bs clicker quiz classes bc I was never in danger of failing a single class. But, I had to go to school at least an extra 2 days a week for small group activities pertaining to lecture.

 

[calbear20]

Lol where is the dishonesty? I said the true average and I said the sample size. People can make their own conclusions about those numbers themselves. And you're assuming that people who didn't take step weren't in the "better half of the class". Like I've already said that's not the case. I know a few people personally who just chose not to take it because the school was going around telling everyone not to or were choosing a primary care specialty that did NOT necessitate taking step. I think we may be in the same class and you are whining so much that I think I know exactly who you are. It's actually sad that I can deduce that, you need to get a life.

Lol you're talking about a below average step 1 with mainly the better half of the class taking it... look at RVU, which does better than KCU on COMLEX, and forces everyone to take Step 1. Their average last year was 220. Average score of a self-selected pool of students is totally useless, and to cite it here as some sort od achievement is dishonest at best.

 

[Chibucks15]

I can tell that you're going to be an admin tool 10 years from now already.

Count your blessing that your school actually abides by the policy of "no attendance" policy

Lastly, there are many reasons for someone people to live 100 miles away from school, including surrounding school safety, quality of school, spouse's job placement, living cost, etc...

But, none of these stuff matter. The bottom line is that if a school says "no mandatory attendance," it should mean no bs clicker quiz classes and no small group activities. I punted all of my bs clicker quiz classes bc I was never in danger of failing a single class. But, I had to go to school at least an extra 2 days a week for small group activities pertaining to lecture.

HAHA what makes you think that I would do that? You have exactly 2 interactions with me on an online forum and you get pretty mad online. Good work keyboard warrior No clue why you'd say that I just am not a cynical shell like some people. I get that you think that some schools literally have zero attendance but this isn't an online degree. You should have the common sense to know that. Maybe move 60 miles away instead of 100 and make an effort. It's simply not feasible to expect to never have to step foot on campus for medical school. It just isn't. You have to deal with BS at literally every school. Suck it up and deal with it like the rest of us. /peace out

 

[Black Coffee 24/7]

HAHA what makes you think that I would do that? You have exactly 2 interactions with me on an online forum and you get pretty mad online. Good work keyboard warrior No clue why you'd say that I just am not a cynical shell like some people. I get that you think that some schools literally have zero attendance but this isn't an online degree. You should have the common sense to know that. Maybe move 60 miles away instead of 100 and make an effort. It's simply not feasible to expect to never have to step foot on campus for medical school. It just isn't. You have to deal with BS at literally every school. Suck it up and deal with it like the rest of us. /peace out

I manned up and dealt with it, cookie. I manned up and did decent on USMLE Step 1, which will allow me to ACGME match to all of my desired specialties.

I'm here only to exposure to the fake bs of DO schools.

I don't mind the bs. However, I do mind fake advertisement to scam premed students.

This thread is here to talk about pros and cons of DO schools. If you don't like it, log out.

 

[shadowlightfox]

HAHA what makes you think that I would do that? You have exactly 2 interactions with me on an online forum and you get pretty mad online. Good work keyboard warrior No clue why you'd say that I just am not a cynical shell like some people. I get that you think that some schools literally have zero attendance but this isn't an online degree. You should have the common sense to know that. Maybe move 60 miles away instead of 100 and make an effort. It's simply not feasible to expect to never have to step foot on campus for medical school. It just isn't. You have to deal with BS at literally every school. Suck it up and deal with it like the rest of us. /peace out

For a guy who attacks others for complaining, you seem to love complaining about others complaining...

 

[Chibucks15]

For a guy who attacks others for complaining, you seem to love complaining about others complaining...

Complaining on an anonymous forum that both won't change anything and just serves to make everyone else feel crappy about their situation really doesn't accomplish a thing. My pet peeve is being upset about something (however warranted) and sitting around complaining and not actually ever making strides to change things. So it turns into an echo chamber of angst and sadness. Have fun! Sorry to go against the grain here I enjoy my school

 

[Ho0v-man]

To some of the posts above:

My school advertised no mandatory attendance and no dress code. But they sure make me put on that formal dress and white coat plenty for no friggin reason. Worse is when it’s the same day as omm so you have to change out but then change into scrubs to go to anatomy. Very valid complaints imo.

But complaining when you lived 100 miles from campus is crazy.

 

[calbear20]

^ I have to agree. I figured it would be a no attendance required policy for lectures but that there would be other BS things I'd have to show up to. Deciding to live 100 miles away from your school.....

 

[Neopolymath]

The whole "we don't have mandatory attendance, but we have clicker questions that make up like 7% of your grade" is one of the most egregiously DO things I have seen. It just follows the mindsets of schools that have numerical grading and all kinds of other antiquated policies so it shouldn't be a surprise. I have always said that my biggest gripe with my school has been the lack of transparency that is dangerously close to fraud. I learned more from past students about basic aspects of the school than I did during interviews because no one would answer questions straight up. I have come to learn that this is common in DO schools. Pathetic.

Everyone knows that non-mandatory attendance is just referring to your basic science lectures so I'm pretty bewildered by the above post.

 

[hallowmann]

The hell you smoking? MD schools have dedicated, too.

What I meant was that dedicated study is for filling in gaps, not that they don't have it too. I'm kind of surprised that it was interpreted that way.

MD schools as a whole simply do prepare you better for the USMLE. That said, there are MD schools that do just as poor a job of it as most DO schools.

...
What? So you think dedicated period is enough to make up for DO schools having horrendously unequipped faculty and courses? 2 years of horrible courses designed to screw you for Step 1 cannot be solved by a dedicated study period.

It did for me, and I'm pretty sure it will for you and most students who put in the time to do solidly on the Step.

I don't know what kind of courses you experienced, but in my 1st 2 years of med school my courses were pretty solid, save OPP. We learned from almost 50/50 MDs and DOs (plus a handful of PhDs), many of whom taught at MD schools in the past. We used the same books as our local MD schools.

When I said that they don't prepare us as well it was more because of emphasis on things like Biochem, research, and exam questions designed specifically to resemble the USMLE as opposed to the COMLEX.

Seriously, you all really make me wonder what you're being taught in med schools if you're complaining this much yet still the majority of DOs are still passing the USMLE.

As for poor faculty, literally every graduate school in the country (and a lot of undergrad schools as well) have a mixed bag of faculty. That's certainly not unique to DO schools.

I get that you all are jaded 2nd years, I was there not too long ago, but you really need to take it down a notch, or else you'll actually start to believe that you're less prepared physicians, which as I said before is simply not true.

 

[DrMcCoyDO]

We laugh during cranial while the professor is giving some bull**** rationale for something or teaching something that contradicts everything anatomists know about the cranium. Especially when we were told to "spread the V" (use thumb and pointer finger to spread the cranial bones, yep, they actually believe you can do that). We just laughed and cracked sexual jokes until the end of lab. Cranial is hilarious and really sad at the same time, because cranial is a dogmatic religion full of contradictions with established reality. I wonder what kind of medication you have to take before gaining the confidence to step in front of a medical school class and claim that cranial is real. These professors are probably IV infusing diazepam all day to be that lucid.

Here’s the part that really frustrated me about cranial during school: During fourth year, my school has an OMM rotation (don’t get me started, I lucked into having a site where I did virtually no OMM but learned a lot of actually good medicine), and during our orientation, we were informed that the science was in and the bones aren’t moving, but they know “something” is happening. Ok, still a bunch of BS, but I can live with that. I talk to a first year later that month who was doing cranial in his OMM class, and they’re still teaching them in class that the cranial bones move! I’m like, damn, so the truth is good enough for fourth years, but you still need to try to indoctrinate the 1-2 years in total bull?!

 

[DrMcCoyDO]

Well guys, that day has come for me.

I am sitting in our cranial lecture as we speak. Which, btw, our OPP lectures are normally 1 hour. But cranial today was 2. Because they did the normal lecture first hour. And now we’re in the bonus 2nd hour which is basically to justify cranial.

And on the schedule for lab this afternoon.... the V spread. Can’t wait.

Honestly, I loved OMM and bought into a lot of the BS, including Chapman’s and viscerosomatics for diagnosis, until we got to cranial. That jolted me out of the indoctrination mode and made me question everything. I still acknowledge OMM for what it’s good for, musculoskeletal (primarily back) pain, but I don’t care if I ever use it again now that I’m out of school.

 

[shadowlightfox]

What I meant was that dedicated study is for filling in gaps, not that they don't have it too. I'm kind of surprised that it was interpreted that way.

MD schools as a whole simply do prepare you better for the USMLE. That said, there are MD schools that do just as poor a job of it as most DO schools.

The point I was trying to get at was your logic was moot. Using dedicated as a way to justify the inferior curriculum quality is stupid, especially since MD's schools that prepare students adequately have dedicated and the fact that in most schools dedicated is simply not enough to play catch up with all the gaping holes the curriculum left for the boards.

Judging by your second half of the post, it seems that your school prepared you well enough for you to to use the dedicated to fill in the gaps, but mine and plenty of others didn't.

 

[DrMcCoyDO]

The whole "we don't have mandatory attendance, but we have clicker questions that make up like 7% of your grade" is one of the most egregiously DO things I have seen.

We were fortunate at my school that clickers were only used for bonus points, not points that would count against you if you missed the quiz.

 

[Neopolymath]

We were fortunate at my school that clickers were only used for bonus points, not points that would count against you if you missed the quiz.

I've said it before on here, but my school has the dumbest grading policies for a lot of things. I'm going to preface this by saying that we all know that class rank doesn't really matter for anyone besides the bottom and top students. However, I have people ranked higher than me simply because they went to class but did worse on exams (you know, the things that test your knowledge supposedly). I have another small group of people ranked higher than me because they got a 99 or something in one course, in which I also received an A, but did worse in the subsequent courses than me. This probably pushed me out of the top of the class for what seems silly given I have been the more consistent student and performed better on actual exams. I know it doesn't ultimately matter because we all run our own race to long term retention and boards, but I just feel like it highlights the ****ty philosophies of DO schools. By and large, they just don't get it. I often wonder if they even consider speaking with their local MD counterparts to see what they do. I very much doubt it given the very different school structure.

 

[sab3156]

Lol where is the dishonesty? I said the true average and I said the sample size. People can make their own conclusions about those numbers themselves. And you're assuming that people who didn't take step weren't in the "better half of the class". Like I've already said that's not the case. I know a few people personally who just chose not to take it because the school was going around telling everyone not to or were choosing a primary care specialty that did NOT necessitate taking step. I think we may be in the same class and you are whining so much that I think I know exactly who you are. It's actually sad that I can deduce that, you need to get a life.

Lol get outta here, you cited the most biased and inconclusive statistic based on a group of self-selected students that in no way represents KCU's class as a whole, and then asked me to compare it to the nearby MD schools as if that makes any statistical sense. No research background?

And no need to take things so personally and become emotional.

 

[hallowmann]

...Mine didn't.

How did you do on the Step? I can't imagine it was that bad.

Don't get me wrong, it would have been nice to not have holes in my curriculum, but I can't say there were that many glaring holes that weren't mostly due to my own cutting corners in studying the 2 years prior.

Most of the stuff I had to study were things I should have learned, but thought it would be "low yield" or I simply didn't thinkI had enough time for it.

For everyone's info, I went to a school with a purely PBL based curriculum for everything except for a few courses (Anatomy, Embryo, Histo, OPP, clinical skills, Biostats, etc.). Faculty interjected as facilitators, especially in 1st year, and they had office hours and review sessions, but a lot of it was self driven. It worked for a lot of people, and like I said, I felt prepared enough for using FA, Pathoma and UWORLD for dedicated study.

My school officially had mandatory classes so I had to be on campus almost every day, but not for too long, but looking back I wish I had that kind of schedule for even just 2 days a week. Maybe it puts things in perspective. My school was frustrating and overbearing, but like I said, when it came to the actual education, I felt well prepared.

 

[shadowlightfox]

How did you do on the Step? I can't imagine it was that bad.

Quite well, but that's because of me, not the school. I thankfully caught on very early that the school wasn't going to prepare me for boards, so I took the necessary precautions from the very beginning unlike many other students who realized it much later but was too late for some of them, as reflected by their board scores.

 

[jrlob91]

I agree. Not to hate on fm but for some reason the FM faculty are the worst at my school too. Not to mention we have some faculty who never did a residency. Not sure what experience they bring to the table without residency. But one has to imagine your IQ has to be pretty low if all you could get was FM 20 years ago from a DO school. Half of them can’t even put together a power point lecture that makes any sense at all.
They think they are awesome though if you talk to them. Probably the only worse ppl are the omm department.

This is ignorant af. Not all FM docs were cornered into that specialty because of their scores. You don’t know peoples lives. Ridiculous.

 

[jrlob91]

Also fwiw I went to atsu soma, am a first year intern at a dual accredited ACGME/AOA program, where residents are both DOs and MDs. I am lightyears ahead of the other interns in terms of assessment and plan, interaction with patients, and basic medical knowledge. Not all DO schools are bad, even if they push OMM. To any premeds that wander onto this thread, ignore the 3-4 detractors in this thread. They s*** all over every DO school because they are miserable humans. Get up in the morning, do your work, go home, study, go to bed, and do it again the next day. No matter where you went to school, in four years, you’ll be a physician.