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question about military services and its benefits after dental school

Discussion in 'Military Dentistry' started by ddsshin, Apr 27, 2007.

  1. ddsshin

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    question that I need to clarify.
    1) can some one explain some of the popular military programs for after dental school?
    2) what are the beneifts? I know that they will pay me full tuition. Also... heard about some kind of stipend... please explain in detail... liike how much..
    3)Will I still get paid like a dentist salary whi.e I am in military as dentist?
    4)Is there any chances that military dentist could be enlisted to go to war?
    5)also, I want to specialize in orthodonic. Is it going to be after the military? or... specialize and go to military.
    6)can some one tell me about how many percent in the school of dentistry join the military?
    7)I want to hear from reader... if they are willing to go to military service... and why? or... why not?

    Thank you
     
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  3. pre-dentalguy

    pre-dentalguy Senior Member

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    The military programs are great, if you so choose to go that route! Your dental tuition will be paid for in full, as well as any student loans. Usually, the pay-back is committing 4-6 years time in service once you have graduated. Secondly, the military will only pay you as a Captain (O-3) or a Major (O-4) rank. If you specialize, you will do that immediately afterward you graduate. Unless, you are call to go to Iraq just as I did (twice).

    Additionally, not many student go into the military after dental school, because they feel as if it is not a benefit. I'm prior military, so I would not hesitate to join once I complete D-school.

    I have been the USAF route and loved it (8 years - ages 18-25). I just did not have the opportunity to go the dental while I was in.
     
  4. reapply2007

    reapply2007 Senior Member

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    Choosing the right organization can make all of the difference in your life. Marines. The only real branch of the service. Everything else is support.
     
  5. stledntl

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    I would check out the Forum Federal Agencies, Military Dentistry
     
  6. shamrock2006

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    full tuition..pretty nice stipend (still might have to take out a small loan like I am if you have major expenses)...country service..good experience...you can choose to stay in the reserves after ur service (or stay active) for those 20 yrs and get that pension....when you come out...you'll be a pretty hot ticket. I really feel any established dentist would be glad to take someone w/ 4 yrs of experience under their wing...unless you decide to go right into practice for yourself. You "can" go to Iraq...but according to my very reliable sources..they really only take the people who make careers in the military. It's unlikely you'll get snatched up during your years of payback for the scholarship. even when ur done and you're on inactive reserve...you "can" get called up...but wont.
     
  7. Lidopaine82

    Lidopaine82 Senior Member

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    BS
     
  8. Fonz

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    So it matter when you sign up for how much of D-school they will pay for you or will they always pay for the entirety of your loans? I heard it was something like you serve for the same amount of years of d-school that you have them pay.
     
  9. shabu2

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    Semper Fi to that!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Former USMC
     
  10. crhoody12

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    Though I am not in the program under the army/navy scholarship, I have been in contact with my local medical recruiter and recently had him speak to our schools Pre-Dental Society. I am currently deciding whether to do this program and this is what I understand of it all...Note when I say army or navy, military or service - i mean any of those programs because they're basically identical

    1.) Plain and simple, it's popular because they will pay for school so you will have no real monitory debts after graduation and owe them only 4 years of service in return. Additionally, while in dental school they give you the stipend, pay for tools, books, etc. Also, while in "service" you are paid a salary and more stipend for housing, food, etc. While you're paying back your years, paid national holidays, random days off, lots of vacation (I want to say you get almost 40-50 days off a year).

    2.) The stipend you receive while you're in dental school (10.5 months/year) you get approx $1,300 (that was last years amount, possibly going up this year) and then the 1.5 months you are not in school you go on "duty" which is basically being sent to Houston or DC army/navy hospital to learn about how to be an officer, how the military (army, navy, etc whatever you pick) operates, what is expected of you, etc. During this time you will be paid as an officer (get approx $5k for the 1.5 months). If your school does not allow time off, the army/navy understands and you don't have to go on this training duty.

    3-4.) When you become a dentist (graduate dental school) you pick about 5 places to be sent to and you're off. NO you will not be put on the lines given a gun to go fight in the war. The army has just invested $200k in you; do you really think they'd risk something happening to you? You will be doing what you have been trained to do, fix teeth. You can be at a hospital in the USA or on a base in Hawaii or in the Middle East. Your rank I believe is Major and the pay is around $50,000. You can live on the base which is a self-contained town with playgrounds (if you have kids), shopping malls, food stores, etc and best part - all tax free. If you chose to live off base, they give you an additional food/housing stipend to pay for rent/mortgage (amount depends on location in the USA).

    5.) Specializing - if you choose to specialize, the army will pay for this as well. You will do your training in a joint army/navy program (possibly be with either Scholarshiped army/navy students or be taught by army/navy specialists (it all depends). Due to the high demand in wanting to be an ortho or oral surgeon in civilian life, the ratios of apply:accepted across the country is very low as these programs are very hard to get into. If you do it through the military, the ratio is extremely lower, giving you a much higher chance of being accepted into their program (and obtaining your ultimate goal). The amount of years paid back depends on program (ortho approx 3, oral surgery approx 5) and you will still be receiving your pays. This is where it may get confusing...The army has just paid for 4 years of dental school so you owe them 4 years back. But what if you want to do OMS which is another 5 years of paid education, accumulating 9 years? Do you owe them 9 years in return? The answer is NO. Between the two programs, your dds/dmd and your specializing, whichever has the most years associated with it is the amount of years you owe. Example (remember, years are approx, I do not exactly remember): Dental School = 4 years, Ortho specialize = 3 --- you owe 4. However, Dental School = 4 years, OMS specialize = 5 year --- you owe 5. Not a bad deal either way.

    6.) I do not know the percentage but I am sure there are a few per school who do it.

    Extra - upon the conclusion of the years you owe (3.5 years into the 4), the military will be wanting to keep you. How do you think they entice you to stay? Money. No obligation "stipends." I don't know how true it is, but our recruiter said he heard an OMS at the end of his payback term, was given around $8-10k to stay. In addition, with all these years you are in the service, paying back your debt you rank will go up so your pay will go up. If you specialize, you owe more years but your pay goes up due to your newly acquired skills. Now think about this...you're paying back you years but you're also accumulating years towards army retirement (20 total). I know it may seem like a long time, but after an OMS military education you have done 5 of 20 years. Depending on your age, you could be retiring at 50-55. What retirement pay is, I have no idea. Also, the service can provide a lot for you. As stated earlier with all the days off you get or vacations, you can stay at bases worldwide (Hawaii's pretty nice). Do you like to sky-dive, learn how to fly a plane, see what its like to do army training (but not actually have your a** kicked) - the military provides these types of services for you to take part in which I thought was pretty cool.

    Hope this all helped and was not too much or too confusing.
     
  11. shabu2

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    Uh CRH,

    FYI, OMS is 4yrs in the military. It is 4yr or 6yr in the civillian world. Most military programs require a possible year of GP before going to OMS, that is why it might be five, but the actual OMS training is 4yrs. ADA requires the program to be 48months, of which 30 months minimum to be of clinical OMS training.
     
  12. shamrock2006

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    it depends on the scholarship...all the branches have 4 yr scholarships..and there are 3 and 2 yr available as well. Most say that for it to be worth it that, you should AT LEAST do the 3. B/c if you do 2..you still owe 3 yrs of service...bad deal...and yes..the 3 and 4 yrs are "one for one"..they paid for 4 yrs..u serve 4. Same w/ the 3. But the scholarship..covers all of your tuition, books, lab fees, etc. They just dont cover living expenses..thats what the stipend is for. I think if you join after dschool you wont get all your loans paid off...they have FAP's (financial assistance programs). I dont know much about them but I believe they will help you pay back some of the debt you've built up.
     
  13. reapply2007

    reapply2007 Senior Member

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    Go Marines! Semper Fi forever!

    Everything else is just warming a chair.
     
  14. shamrock2006

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    umm...i dont think the marines offers health professions scholarships. You may get to work w/ the Marines if you go via the Navy...but nothing is offered directly through the Marines.
     
  15. reapply2007

    reapply2007 Senior Member

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    Being a Devil Doc is the closest a medic will ever get to being operational military.
     
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  17. ddhm

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    im applying this year and have spoken to an air force advisor about applying for the HPSP program.

    i was wondering if you have the option of choosing to specialize in a civilian program following graduation, then serving the four years you owe for dental school after completing your civilian specialty training?

    the advisor replied 'yes' when i asked him this, but im not sure that he completed understood my question.

    the reason i ask -- i guess one wouldn't have any reason to seek civilian specialty training if you wanted to do ortho, endo, etc. but what if you decided to do the 6-year OMFS track which the military doesn't provide?

    or would you end up having to serve back the four years for dental school first, then leave the military and seek civilian training if you decided on the 6-yr track?
     
  18. shamrock2006

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    I think the military has a 4 yr OMFS. but regarding specializing in general..you can do it at a civilian institution following graduation..but if they pay for it...you are going to owe back more time. So if u went ortho on their dime...u'd owe your 4 yrs for dschool then 2 yrs for ortho. That's basically how the whole thing works....one for one.
     
  19. ddsshin

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    so... the time line will be...if I want to specialize ortho..

    Undergraduate (4yrs) -> Dental school (4yrs) -> military service (4yrs) -> ortho specialization (2 yrs)

    is this correct time line???
    Also... HOW HARD is it to get into army, navy or air force
    and how different are they???
     
  20. shamrock2006

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    nope..not only from my recruiter (who i know some might say is just full of it)..but also from a close relative...a Colonel, a surgeon, in the USAF..who clearly knows more about it than anyone you could ever talk to
     
  21. reapply2007

    reapply2007 Senior Member

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    Some would suggest that a Colonel has been is so long that they have outlived any real threat of clinical work because they have been promoted to adminstrative function.

    I was just looking at the military medicine thread. Apparently the USAF's reputation for medicine is pretty poor. www.medicalcorpse.com
    But then again, this info is from a Lieutenant Colonel.
     
  22. shamrock2006

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    You would think so...but that's not the case here. He knows plenty about who gets sent where b/c he has done it...and not b/c he was made to go, but because he volunteered himself. My father has also spent adequate time on USAF bases...telling me that they treat their dentists like gold. Why? b/c they want to keep them...because w/ the limited # of people getting scholarships or coming in out of private practice..they try to make the deal as sweet as possible for you. So it all depends...but I can tell you, or anyone, w/ almost certainty..that the likelihood of being shipped off somewhere while ur doing ur HPSP payback..as a DENTIST...is slim to none. I can see why it would be more likely as a physician. You would need them there if someone needs immediate care. Dental work is mainly prep work for people who get sent off to war...wouldn't be too many "dental" emergencies...at least not many that are life or death situations. This is why I said that its unlikely you'll get shipped off during payback....didnt mean to step on anyone's toes or offend anybody. I just try my best to get rid of the stigma that military dentistry is this god awful creation.
     
  23. jfitzpat

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    I'll preface this by saying I don't have firsthand knowledge, but I have heard from several reliable sources that you are pretty much guaranteed to deploy in the Army (12-15 months) and there is a pretty good chance you will deploy in the Navy (6-8 months). The Air Force is better because they aren't spread as thin, but anyone who is going to take the scholarship should assume they are going to deploy because otherwise it could be a rude awakening if it does happen.
     
  24. shamrock2006

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    well right..i probably should have clarified that my info has come from the USAF side. I dont know much about the army or navy. I have just been informed from reliable sources as well that w/ the AF...u pretty much dont have anything to worry about. I mean even if you do get deployed...it's not like ur going to go somewhere in the line of fire..you'll be working at a medical facility which is probably pretty damn secure. Plus, it all depends on your lifestyle. If you have a family...maybe you need to think about it more. But if you're single...deployment really wont be that big of a deal. Bottom line is..everyone has their opinions..everyone has their info...it all comes down to that person's decision.
     
  25. RypTide11

    RypTide11 New Member

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    I am currently enlisted in the Army and I can confirm this statement.
     
  26. Lidopaine82

    Lidopaine82 Senior Member

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    yes, but is it the same for regular army dental officers? i know in the guard while enlisted people are activated for 12-15 months, dental officers are only activated for 90 days + days at mob station. (although i heard they're going to start the 90 count when you reach the mob station and not in country)
     
  27. RypTide11

    RypTide11 New Member

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    Yes, as an active duty army dental officer you will be deployed for 12-15 months after 1.5-2.5 years of getting out of d-school, guaranteed.

    But... if we elect a democratic president... i'm pretty sure we'll be out of iraq soon. And by the time we graduate we'll probably have no more deployments. :confused:
     
  28. shabu2

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    And socialized medicine/healthcare! Thank GOD I chose dentistry.
     
  29. Fonz

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    so whats the time frame that students to apply for a military scholarship? Is it before they start school but after they are accepted?
     
  30. aphistis

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  31. jfitzpat

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    Wow, great info. Thanks for posting.

    I have always got conflicting accounts on pay. Does your time in school really count towards pay? I have heard some say that you are an 0-3 with <2 and others say that you've got four under your belt. Does anyone know which is correct?
     
  32. phungy

    phungy Account Terminated

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    Thank you NAVY DDS 2010 for the helpful and detailed posts. Actually makes me want to join now...hmm...
     
  33. shamrock2006

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    tons and tons of great info here...I wish I had the time to read through it all so in case this question is answered already I apologize..i'll keep it short. If ur goin on the HPSP...yay or nay on shooting for the AEGD if you think u'll probably serve your time and come out once its up?(this may change but as of right now..my intentions are to not make a career in the military...but I have most definitely not ruled out the possiblity) Why or why not? My dentist says no, but thats b/c he wants me to take over his place assuming he's still there in 8 yrs, which is a BIG assumption cuz he's already in his early 60s.
     
  34. MaxAnn

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    Navy DDS, between you and Squids, I don't know who provides the best info. You guys should be recruiters, but then again, you wouldn't be this knowledgeable about the dental side of the Navy.

    I have a question. I thought you could apply without an acceptance letter? I am pretty sure you can, but I could be wrong. Other than that, everything you posted was very informative and accurate.

    I am wondering why the Navy is the only branch that offers the HSCP? It would make sense if they all did it, but it is a great option for the Navy; just another way to garner applicants and future dentists.

    Truthfully, I know a bunch of people who say they couldn't afford dental school without the military, especially those with families. The cost of dental school can be simply outrageous.

    Go Navy!
     
  35. jcrutchf

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    Does anyone know of the age requirements/restrictions for applying for the HSCP or HCSP?
     
  36. MaxAnn

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    I think you may have to be commissioned by 35, but the age has either recently been increased, or there are also waivers. I have heard people around 45 or so getting those scholarships, but don't quote me on that.
     
  37. Truedat

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    I thought I would post some info from the AF perspective. Just so you know, I don't have any prior military experience aside from the HPSP program.

    I would definitely agree that the Air Force is having the easiest time filling their spots, making it the most competitive when it comes to getting a scholarship. And yes, Navy DDS is right, you can begin applying without an acceptance letter, but you cannot be considered for a scholarship until you have one. I received a 3 yr scholarship from the AF. I received my acceptance letter in January and by the time I completed my app it was the end of February and all the 4 yr scholarships were already gone (for the class beginning that Fall). The Army still had plenty of scholarships left and contacted us, but we had already decided we wanted to go the AF route. This year, the AF scholarships were gone by January.

    Another, quick note... with the AF, you have the option to apply to a specialty program, but you are REQUIRED to apply to AEGD. So, if you don't get into a specialty or don't apply to one, there is still a chance that you will have an extra year of AEGD after you graduate before you begin paying your scholarship years back.

    Since I received the 3 yr scholarship, I was not able to go to COT (commisioned officers training) before I started dental school. They are not currently allowing 3 yr scholarship recipients to attend this summer (which is the only summer I get a break from school). So, I will be attending COT as soon as I graduate (as soon as I graduate, I will become an O-3, or captain). I will go to COT, then off to a base for either my specialty, AEGD or to begin working as a general dentist.

    While I am in dental school, I am an O-1 (second lt). I received $400 this year for clothing (even though I don't need a uniform yet). I can currently fly Space A, however my dependents cannot since I am not active duty. I shop at the nearest commisary and exchange. I receive a stipend of $1320 a month, except for when I am on active duty. While I am in dental school I am required to serve 45 days a year on Active Duty Tour, for dental students they just put you on "Campus Tour", which means I get full active duty pay and benefits as an O-1 for those 45 days, but I don't do anything other than attend school as usual. The only restriction is that I cannot leave the country during this time without notifying the AF first. Of course, I also get my tuition, books and fees paid for which is nice since I'm not getting in-state tuition! I went to the nearest military installation that offers CAC's, it happened to be a Naval Air Station, to get my military ID. There are lots of places that give you discounts if you have your military ID with you (we got free passes to Busch Gardens).

    We asked about going overseas, because we thought it would be an awesome opportunity. They told us there isn't much chance of going, unless you commit to going career with them. The AF only sends dentists to AF bases, they will not station you on carriers, field stations etc.. The only bases overseas are in Germany, Italy, Japan, South Korea, Turkey, England, and a small island off of Spain. Plus Guam, Alaska and Hawaii if you want to call those overseas. As a result, in the AF, it is actually considered a privelege among medical and dental officers to be stationed over there.

    That is all I can think of for now...
     
  38. jfitzpat

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    From everything I have heard, you are correct in saying that you are required to apply for the AEGD, but you are not required to accept it if you are selected.
     
  39. KOM

    KOM Senior Member

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    Can someone verify this please?
     
  40. Omahahahaha

    Omahahahaha Senior Member

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    It is true. I am on the Air Force HPSP. Everyone applies.
     
  41. Yellow Snow

    Yellow Snow Senior Member

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    Quoted from above: From everything I have heard, you are correct in saying that you are required to apply for the AEGD, but you are not required to accept it if you are selected.

    Whoa, this thread is the first I have heard of this mandatory AEGD stuff. I was one signature away from signing up for the four year AF scholarship last year but still had some doubts. I am now in the application process for the three year scholarship. Can someone confirm the following: You MUST apply for an AEGD or specialty program but you are NOT required to accepted it if selected? The extra year would be a huge turn off for me as I am a slightly older applicant.
     
  42. KOM

    KOM Senior Member

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    I would also like this confirmed...if we're forced to apply and then forced to accept, that extra year would be a bit of a turn-off for me as well. I'm a bit of an older applicant too (26). My recruiter told me that "they highly recommend doing that program," but I sensed a little hesitation as if he wasn't giving me the whole story.

    Another Q...I heard that the AF is planning on implementing something soon where all 4 year applicants to the AF that didn't receive the scholarship will automatically be granted the 3-year. This means they wouldn't need to go through the application process again. Can anyone else confirm is this has been implemented or is still in the works?
     
  43. Midoc

    Midoc Senior Member

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    What was posted is correct. You are required to apply for it but not required to accept it. Its really not a big deal, if you don't want to do it then just decline it.
     
  44. SNOZBERRIES

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    The answer is YES you have to apply for the AEGD-1 program. The follow-on is NO you don't have to accept it. You would be a fool not to. The AEGD-1 program will be the best educational year you have ever had. Hands down. I would do it again in a heart beat. You will do more in one year of an AEGD than you would if dental school lasted a decade. Even if you decide not to make the military a career (most don't), you will be more marketable than anyone heading out to private practice from dental school, ie. more marketable. Plus, what residency pays their AEGD's $65K/year.

    Before you decide to turn down an AEGD, ponder this...

    How many ortho cases did you complete in dental school? I did eight start to finish in my AEGD.

    How many endo retreats/apical surgeries? I did about 15.

    How many IV sedation/3rd molar cases? I did 86 (only the AF credentials AEGD residents in IV sed).

    How many connective tissue grafts? I did 8.

    How many implants? I did 10.

    How many CERAC restorations, open flap curettage with apically positioned flaps, frenectomies, tori removals, full anterior cosmetic cases, etc..?

    How many TRULY medically compromised patients, head/neck cancer patients, pre-cardiac surgery clearance extractions, reduced fractures, major space infections, etc., etc. ?

    You get the point. Even if you decide you don't like the endo, perio, ortho, etc. at least you will have clinical experience. This will only help the GP.
    If you are thinking of specializing, you will know really quick if you truly want to apply. I thought I wanted to do pedo, now I'm starting OMS. Go figure.

    If you do not do an AEGD-1 you will probably end up on an "amalgam line". You will to do all the full cuspal coverage amalgams you can handle, more exams than you have mirrors, and an occasional crown. The military "credentials" their dentists. This means you can only do what the credentialing board says you can do. Without the AEGD, its not much.

    2. Your chances of getting into a specialty residency right out of dental school are pretty much non existent. I can only speak for the AF, but there were only a few who were accepted to a specialty out of school. You may be able to get into perio or pros, but other than that you have no chance. There is a chance to get into OMS, but you will have to spend one year as a general dentist at either Travis or Lackland. Why not spend that year in an AEGD.

    I had a lot of friends doing AEGDs all over the country in the civilian world. with the exception of maybe Colorado's (IV and 3rds), no one even came close. The location of the AEGD is key. Ask the residency directors, not the recruiter, what their program offers. They will talk to you. They like that kind of stuff. Also, interview in person.

    It may not be for everyone, but there are a whole lot of pluses.
     
  45. Lemming

    Lemming Hello

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    On the retention bonus pay tables, some of the lower listings, ie, general dentist, there is (ACP - advanced clinical practice) in parentheses. Does anyone know what this means? Does it means you have to be a general dentist with certain qualifications, aegd, years, or combination of all the above to get the retention bonus? Also, I believe the comprehensive/operative dentist is someone who has done the AEGD-2...is this correct?
     
  46. SNOZBERRIES

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  47. shamrock2006

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    Just FYI everyone..and not that this is relavant to anything. I Just met a former enlisted member of the USAF tonight...he was stationed at Travis AFB..he dated a girl who worked as a dental tech...and he said that they did all kinds of stuff at that office....including cosmetic dentistry. This was like..5 years ago...along w/ all the surgical type stuff civilians do. So anyone who says you cant get good "experience" in the military...well...has no idea what they are talking about. just thought i'd give everyone something to chew on :D
     
  48. KOM

    KOM Senior Member

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    Common misconception from a lot of people. :thumbup:
     
  49. MaxAnn

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    I agree. From the civilian and military dentists that I worked with, most of the military dentists were just as sound clinically if not better. Dentists in private practice routinely performed root canals without rubber dams and cut all sorts of other corners, none of which occurred with the military.

    Sadly, a lot of people see was is depicted on t.v. or hearsay and decide what the military is all about.
     
  50. Deep Impact

    Moderator Emeritus

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    Am I the only practicing military dentist on this forum? Anyway, here to give you some real stories. Let me just say, at least on the Navy side, what you do really really depends on where you're stationed and to a lesser extend who the boss is. I happen to be in a pretty nice environment where in-office bleaching does happen now and then, along with some occasional cosmetic procedures. We own a top notch intra-oral camera and digital radiography units. Restoring implants happen and lots of crown and bridge work is there, too.

    On the other hand, if you happen to be that luck guy who gets stationed at a recruit depots like MCRD in San Diego and Parris Island, you'll probably be doing pulpectomies and placing amalgam all day, all year until you move to the next duty station. You'll become an expert at carving that "amalgamcrown" with that fifth cusp and all. So, what you do really depends where you are. Sorry to ruin anyone's dreams if you're headed there...maybe you can come to my duty station one day. :D
     
  51. SNOZBERRIES

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    I agree with you again. Yes, I do cosmetic procedures. I am fortunate enough to have a lot of autonomy. I give my patients what they need. If they need anterior units, I'll do all ceramics. I quit doing gold anteriors after dental school. For some reason, my patients don't want them. Go figure.
    It does depend where you are, what your patient load is like, and what your commander's philosophy is.

    I just finished some internal bleaching today. We just ordered a CERAC scanner, we have digital radiography, intraoral cameras, and a lot of "bells and whistles". We have another scanner where I can scan dies and send the data to Peterson AFB for fabrication of ceramic posteriors/anteriors. Unfortunately, they won't buy the 15" flat screens I put in for.

    I do spend plenty of time doing full cuspal coverage amalgams for patients who may be deploying in the near future. Obviously if the patient load is high, like it is for me right now, the patients may have to wait a few months for some elective things.

    I hope this helps.
     
  52. Yellow Snow

    Yellow Snow Senior Member

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    I heard it mentioned that those student dentists who don't undergo the AEGD spend significantly more time on the "amalgam line" than those that do? Anyone with experience here?
     

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