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[ajs513]

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The current state of insurance in vet med is a reimbursement model. Pet owner almost always has to pay up front then gets reimbursed by their insurance company. A few companies do pre-approvals for faster payouts and one I know of will pay the vet directly, but my dog’s insurance company (a popular one) pretty routinely takes 30 days (occasionally more) to reimburse me. While I do think that that is a positive for the vet/clinic since they get their payment for services up front, I think that’s a limitation right now against pet insurance for the masses. While I don’t think I want it to go the ways human med is now, it still means that today, someone with pet insurance still needs to have several thousand dollars available in savings or on a credit card or as care credit or something to pay until the insurance comes through. If we get to a point where all the companies pay out within days (not 1-2 months) or routinely pay vets directly that could change, but I have family members that could maybe afford premiums but they don’t have that emergency fund to pay the bill up front and wait for reimbursement.

Pet insurance is definitely far from perfect, and is very prohibitive to people without good credit who could put everything on a credit card and wait for reimbursement. But of course it’s better than nothing. As it stands now, I think more people should know about how per insurance works, and that care credit is a good option to cover the cost in many cases while waiting for reimbursement. If you have a $2000 vet visit, many people won’t just have that sitting around in a bank account. If they put that on care credit and get 6 months interest free, they could easily wait until insurance reimburses them. Even if that’s only 80% with a $200 deductible or something, that’s well within the range that most people have lying around. Again, not perfect, but far better than the alternative, and most people don’t even know that doing this is an option.

 

[SkiOtter]

Pet insurance is definitely far from perfect, and is very prohibitive to people without good credit who could put everything on a credit card and wait for reimbursement. But of course it’s better than nothing. As it stands now, I think more people should know about how per insurance works, and that care credit is a good option to cover the cost in many cases while waiting for reimbursement. If you have a $2000 vet visit, many people won’t just have that sitting around in a bank account. If they put that on care credit and get 6 months interest free, they could easily wait until insurance reimburses them. Even if that’s only 80% with a $200 deductible or something, that’s well within the range that most people have lying around. Again, not perfect, but far better than the alternative, and most people don’t even know that doing this is an option.

Some people don’t get approved for that much money from care credit though so they CAN’T put a $2,000 vet bill on a care credit card

 

[JaynaAli]

Some people don’t get approved for that much money from care credit though so they CAN’T put a $2,000 vet bill on a care credit card

@ajs513 this. I did mention care credit as an option along with savings or credit cards while waiting for reimbursement in my post you quoted, but this is part of what I’m getting at. Care credit is fairly lenient with who they lend to, but many people get declined (and then they yell at me because I/the clinic won’t do payment plans for them and you must hate animals and the elderly and the poor and all that) or don’t get enough to cover the whole bill. And really, I’d argue that people who get declined by care credit are arguably the ones who need pet insurance the most (the ones with bad credit or no credit history at all) since they’re probably already struggling with debt and won’t be able to absorb unexpected expenses.

 

[Coopah]

I agree, I definitely don't want pet insurance to go the way of human medical insurance. But there needs to be some way that allows an average person to pay an unexpected $2,000. If most people were financially stable and financially competent that would be easy. However, some people live paycheck to paycheck and some, while they should have enough, just don't because this was unexpected.

The way I look at it is yes debt is a significant problem to the profession. I literally do not understand how tuition can be as high as it is. The schools complain they're not getting enough funding from the state, but I guarantee you they never got 60k per student. Still I have professors who wax on about how vet school was 5k a year and now they own 12 practices and are basically filthy rich. Great good for you. The rest of us can't afford that. In fact people groan about diversity in the field when in reality if your parents can't pay or you're not independently wealthy, you will be in debt for the rest of your life. The schools themselves need to stop charging ridiculous amounts. They want us to pay $5k just for medical insurance! Why? Then they charge us hundreds to use their gym and the fees go on and on. I have no control over this. I can't say let's not use the campus gym and save myself a thousand bucks a year. There is no regulation around what the schools charge. The dean of vet med gets nearly a million dollars a year. The dean for the undergrad campus gets even more. We're paying undergrad tuition in addition to vet school tuition.

Besides money, most of the others have already touched on the issues. Clients who think you're a horrible person, the inability to say no, compassion fatigue, customer service. It's all a recipe for the current problem. The issue is, we can't fix it. Not with a million wellness classes, because the debt isn't something we can change. The clients are ultimately not something we can change. Maybe we could improve work hours but not with that debt. It goes on and on but the only way to fix it it to make some pretty radical changes that just are not feasible in today's world.

 

[ajs513]

@ajs513 this. I did mention care credit as an option along with savings or credit cards while waiting for reimbursement in my post you quoted, but this is part of what I’m getting at. Care credit is fairly lenient with who they lend to, but many people get declined (and then they yell at me because I/the clinic won’t do payment plans for them and you must hate animals and the elderly and the poor and all that) or don’t get enough to cover the whole bill. And really, I’d argue that people who get declined by care credit are arguably the ones who need pet insurance the most (the ones with bad credit or no credit history at all) since they’re probably already struggling with debt and won’t be able to absorb unexpected expenses.

I understand. There’s really nothing anyone can do to solve all of the problems for people with poor credit who get denied from care credit and have no savings. However, the average person who doesn’t have thousands of dollars in their bank account will have a good enough credit history to get care credit with a high enough limit to cover most expenses.

 

[PippyPony]

On a completely unrelated (random?) note --

Why do we call baby leopards and lions "cubs"? Why not kittens? They're not bears, they're big cats.

Thoughts on a rainy Saturday afternoon.

 

[battie]

Informal research question for those in veterinary practice (either as vets or techs or assistants):

What do you find to be the biggest contributing factor to the poor mental health in vet med?

I think the best thing for vet med would be to increase the ability to say no.

I was coming here to say what Genny said: there needs to be more/better boundaries in vet med. There was a post on a vet student facebook page about how to balance having a family life while working in vet med. I responded that we do have power in writing out side of a contract and in my contract, I'm going to have that the clinic does not contact me when I'm off (after im done with my shift, on my days off, whatever; no contact). I got almost exclusively laugh reactions and told that's impossible.

No. It's not. If a clinic isn't going to respect my boundaries, I dont need to work there. I can start looking for another job.

Maybe its naive of me to believe, but we dont have good enough boundaries to prevent vet med from infiltrating our lives outside our clinics. Clients finding us on social media. Clinics calling us on our days off. Vet med will be my career, not my life. We need to train everyone in the profession, from clinic/corporation owners down to clients, that this is a job like any other. You dont disrespect people's time and effort in several other professions; we should not tolerate it in ours either.

I totally agree with firing crappy clients or staff. Not everyone jives in every environment and they shouldn't be kept in that environment if they're making it worse.

 

[jaboo]

I was coming here to say what Genny said: there needs to be more/better boundaries in vet med. There was a post on a vet student facebook page about how to balance having a family life while working in vet med. I responded that we do have power in writing out side of a contract and in my contract, I'm going to have that the clinic does not contact me when I'm off (after im done with my shift, on my days off, whatever; no contact). I got almost exclusively laugh reactions and told that's impossible.

No. It's not. If a clinic isn't going to respect my boundaries, I dont need to work there. I can start looking for another job.

Maybe its naive of me to believe, but we dont have good enough boundaries to prevent vet med from infiltrating our lives outside our clinics. Clients finding us on social media. Clinics calling us on our days off. Vet med will be my career, not my life. We need to train everyone in the profession, from clinic/corporation owners down to clients, that this is a job like any other. You dont disrespect people's time and effort in several other professions; we should not tolerate it in ours either.

I totally agree with firing crappy clients or staff. Not everyone jives in every environment and they shouldn't be kept in that environment if they're making it worse.

This exactly.

for context, I’m at a Hackathon and we’re trying to figure out a product to address the mental health crisis in vetmed right now. A professor who is researching this right now said that the main difference between DVM’s and MD’s is that vets are bad at setting boundaries.

 

[battie]

This exactly.

for context, I’m at a Hackathon and we’re trying to figure out a product to address the mental health crisis in vetmed right now. A professor who is researching this right now said that the main difference between DVM’s and MD’s is that vets are bad at setting boundaries.

I cannot tell you how much better my mental health is this year compared to last year due to setting boundaries. I miss our Wildlife Clinic a lot. I miss doing all the things. But the one thing I learned last year that my inherent depression that I developed was exacerbated by everything I did and the boundaries I did not have. I should have quit everything last year, straight up. I didn't, and I suffered for it. Now, I only do a few things, and I'm doing a lot better on a lot of levels. I now espouse boundaries for everything, and will definitely will have them during my career.

 

[Animal Midwife]

On a completely unrelated (random?) note --

Why do we call baby leopards and lions "cubs"? Why not kittens? They're not bears, they're big cats.

Thoughts on a rainy Saturday afternoon.

Apparently, all Panthera have cubs while all Felinae have kittens. So it's just a matter of classification like the purr/no purr thing (except those naughty snow leopards).

 

[genny]

However, the average person who doesn’t have thousands of dollars in their bank account will have a good enough credit history to get care credit with a high enough limit to cover most expenses.

This has not been true in my experience. Most of my clients don't need to apply for care credit, but the ones who do usually do not qualify.

 

[Caiter92]

I understand. There’s really nothing anyone can do to solve all of the problems for people with poor credit who get denied from care credit and have no savings. However, the average person who doesn’t have thousands of dollars in their bank account will have a good enough credit history to get care credit with a high enough limit to cover most expenses.

I disagree with this. I have carecredit, and when I applied I had an over 800 credit score, multiple credit cards with decently high limits, didn’t carry a balance, and was working full time. I was very much the client you were describing and I got approved for $3k, which wasn’t even the limit of my lowest credit card. That isn’t even enough to cover a deposit for many emergency situations if ICU hospitalization is involved. Basic unexpected vet care, yes. But not all clinics accept care credit, and many that do have a minimum that needs to be reached before it can be used.

Care credit is better than nothing, but it’s definitely not something everyone can use or that will cover many things even for people who apply with good credit. Most of the clients I’ve seen need it were ones with no credit history at all (and no these weren’t just younger clients), and they weren’t approved. Or were approved for like $500 and the deposit they needed to leave was $1500 or more.

 

[Lupin21]

Most of mine don't qualify or can get max of $1000 or less, which generally doesn't cover cost of what the ailment entails. :/

Still one of the best options to present though when finances are limited.

 

[deleted676737]

I recognize that my opinion is probably worthless, but hey.

Honestly, the single greatest contributor? I’d wager that it’s the debt. Being not in vet med anymore, my circumstances are obviously different, but the debt from my two years of vet school on its own has definitely made me suicidal before.

I’d imagine that there are a good number of vets who want out of the profession or at least maybe want to switch jobs who feel utterly trapped and unable to do so because of that debtload. It’s difficult because switching professions entirely means either taking a lower salary and/or potentially going back to school (and thus taking out even more debt). It’s just generally much easier to move around and have some sense of financial freedom when you dont have that six-figure albatross around your neck and psychologically weighing you down all the damn time. Income-based plans help make payments actually doable, but if you’re in a situation where you can’t even scrape away at the interest, let alone the principle... then the amount owed is only going to grow and grow each month. If it weren’t for PAYE, literally ~80% of my income would be going toward my loans. That’s nowhere near feasible in my situation, being a single person making about $30k.

Maybe you leave vet school or fail out. Maybe you DO make it through vet school and decide you hate the profession and want to do something else, or maybe you find your absolute dream job at a clinic or shelter but you’d have to take much lower pay... you still have to consider that debt at every step of the way and it might keep you from taking action and pursuing those options, even if they’d result in you being happier and healthier in the long run.

There are obviously a lot of other factors driving poor mental wellness in vet med, but if the costs associated with vet school weren’t so stupidly massive, at least these burnt out vets might have some other avenue by which to escape and pursue a different, less stressful career rather than kill themselves because they're in a spiral they can’t reasonably get out of with the quarter of a million dollars of debt shackling them to it like it does. Throw in all of the work- and client-related issues and the type A, perfectionist personalities that are usually attracted to vet med, and you’ve got a disaster on your hands.

 

[Lupin21]

The types of folks attracted to this profession is also a factor. Tend to be introverts, some battling depression already, then light that powder keg with debt, clients who shame about money, and the general inability to help at times for a perfectionist. There is more help now, but too many factors that have no real solution besides more people to listen and help at least on the support front.

 

[PippyPony]

I was coming here to say what Genny said: there needs to be more/better boundaries in vet med. There was a post on a vet student facebook page about how to balance having a family life while working in vet med. I responded that we do have power in writing out side of a contract and in my contract, I'm going to have that the clinic does not contact me when I'm off (after im done with my shift, on my days off, whatever; no contact). I got almost exclusively laugh reactions and told that's impossible.

No. It's not. If a clinic isn't going to respect my boundaries, I dont need to work there. I can start looking for another job.

Maybe its naive of me to believe, but we dont have good enough boundaries to prevent vet med from infiltrating our lives outside our clinics. Clients finding us on social media. Clinics calling us on our days off. Vet med will be my career, not my life. We need to train everyone in the profession, from clinic/corporation owners down to clients, that this is a job like any other. You dont disrespect people's time and effort in several other professions; we should not tolerate it in ours either.

I agree for the need for boundaries, and I'm glad you're pushing for what you need.

But as someone who worked a salaried job in a completely different industry before this...it's really not unusual to be expected to pick up the phone if your job calls you on your day off to ask you a question or get your input on something.

It's the difference between a salaried employee and an hourly employee/shift worker. Patients (like projects) don't evaporate at the end of a day, and vets function in a leadership capacity in a clinic setting. I don't think it's crazy for co-workers to want to be able to contact you if they are in a crunch.

(Note - I'm not saying they should expect you to drop everything and come in to work, and I think having adequate time off/personal days/flexibility is SUPER important to employee happiness. But tbh I probably wouldn't hire someone who wanted to be totally inaccessible whenever they're off. Doesn't feel reasonable or team-oriented in a real world context.)

 

[battie]

I agree for the need for boundaries, and I'm glad you're pushing for what you need.

But as someone who worked a salaried job in a completely different industry before this...it's really not unusual to be expected to pick up the phone if your job calls you on your day off to ask you a question or get your input on something.

It's the difference between a salaried employee and an hourly employee/shift worker. Patients (like projects) don't evaporate at the end of a day, and vets function in a leadership capacity in a clinic setting. I don't think it's crazy for co-workers to want to be able to contact you if they are in a crunch.

(Note - I'm not saying they should expect you to drop everything and come in to work, and I think having adequate time off/personal days/flexibility is SUPER important to employee happiness. But tbh I probably wouldn't hire someone who wanted to be totally inaccessible whenever they're off. Doesn't feel reasonable or team-oriented in a real world context.)

My mom's family has owned a business for 5 generations now, so I totally get that a lot of other professions do have an expectation of being accessible outside of work hours. My dad was salaried by his previous company as a manager of his store and was expected to answer his phone for 100% of his calls.

The family business is actually why I 1) never want to own my own clinic and just be a minion for the rest of my life and 2) never want to be contacted by work outside of work. My mom never got away from work, and neither did my dad, sister, or I (and dad was in a totally different industry). It definitely was a strain on my parents' relationship, and (in hindsight) a strain on my sister and I. And, because everyone on my mom's side was involved, the stores were talked about at Christmas, Easter, family dinners, etc etc etc. When my mom's lease was cancelled by the mall, she ultimately made the decision to not reopen at a different location (that was cheaper and in a better area) because the store took up her entire life. Even now, because my aunt and cousins are still involved in the business, my mom and I get dragged into things (conversations, advice, etc), and she and I have been out of the business as a whole for officially 5 years now. My sister would flat refuse to do anything work related to the stores. I don't regret growing up in the family business; it's why I wanted to become a vet in the first place. But the family business definitely taught me what I do and do not want going on in my life.

While I understand colleagues may want to contact me if say, I see a patient the day before and they come in on my day off. They may want to get my opinion or help on a case that they're having trouble with. There are definitely a ton of scenarios in which the clinic will want to get a hold of me. But it doesn't seem reasonable or team-orientated to me to have employees work when they aren't at work, hourly or salary. I strongly feel that someone's responsibility to work (as an employee, not an owner) ends the moment they walk out the door. My employer has no right to my time and energy that they aren't paying me for.

I very well may change my tune when job hunting; after all, a girl's got to pay her student loans and beggars can't be choosers. But the most important thing in the world to me is family and myself. And, not for nothing, the profession isn't going to change if people maintain the status quo.

 

[Melchizedek]

The types of folks attracted to this profession is also a factor. Tend to be introverts, some battling depression already, then light that powder keg with debt, clients who shame about money, and the general inability to help at times for a perfectionist. There is more help now, but too many factors that have no real solution besides more people to listen and help at least on the support front.

I am but a mere med student so I may have nothing to contribute but I have a question.

In light of recognizing that this may be the case (already vulnerable group of individuals + the pressure cooker of vet school, debt, etc = bad outcomes) would it be pertinent to reform the vet school application process to include an emotional assessment ora way to gauge resiliency?

The human med side has been doing it informally for years and more and more recently are doing it in a standardized way.

The informal (and somewhat sketchy) way has been looking for lapses in resiliency in the past. If you had a gap in education due to mental health or the like, they would ask what you did in that gap and how you addressed your health to make sure it doesn’t happen again. They most likely will also ask and assess a students support network, coping mechanisms, etc.

The newer formal way seems to be with this CASPER. The test questions are ethics and values based questions. It records EVERYTHING from the time it takes you to answer certain questions, down to facial expressions and the like with a webcam.
Its designed (but who knows how accurate it actually is) to assess empathy, problem solving, ethics, and resiliency.

 

[Ms Procrastinator]

Just found out I'm gonna be working the Superbowl 😢😢😢😢😢. Pray for me.

 

[Lupin21]

I am but a mere med student so I may have nothing to contribute but I have a question.

In light of recognizing that this may be the case (already vulnerable group of individuals + the pressure cooker of vet school, debt, etc = bad outcomes) would it be pertinent to reform the vet school application process to include an emotional assessment ora way to gauge resiliency?

The human med side has been doing it informally for years and more and more recently are doing it in a standardized way.

The informal (and somewhat sketchy) way has been looking for lapses in resiliency in the past. If you had a gap in education due to mental health or the like, they would ask what you did in that gap and how you addressed your health to make sure it doesn’t happen again. They most likely will also ask and assess a students support network, coping mechanisms, etc.

The newer formal way seems to be with this CASPER. The test questions are ethics and values based questions. It records EVERYTHING from the time it takes you to answer certain questions, down to facial expressions and the like with a webcam.
Its designed (but who knows how accurate it actually is) to assess empathy, problem solving, ethics, and resiliency.

I dunno, human side has its fair share and much higher percentage than the average population as well, so while screening is all well and good, it also has to do with the nature of the beast and dealing with death on a daily basis.

 

[Melchizedek]

I dunno, human side has its fair share and much higher percentage than the average population as well, so while screening is all well and good, it also has to due with the nature of the beast and dealing with death on a daily basis.

True, compared to the gen. pop. most high-stress and well educated jobs (even lawyers); as well as jobs that may not require higher education but are more technically-oriented (farming/fishing industry, construction, etc.), have a higher suicide rate.

CASPER has only been in place since about 2014 and hasn't been standardized amongst all medical schools yet. So hopefully we'll start seeing the effect that this additional step in the application process has on the type of doctors produced as well as their QoL.

I guess the question I'm looking for people's inputs on is, since med/vet/law/etc. schools are pretty much the gatekeepers for their respective professions, do you think its also partly on them to identify and screen applicants that have a higher risk towards adverse outcomes? For the sake of those individuals themselves as well as the profession as a whole?

 

[Lupin21]

True, compared to the gen. pop. most high-stress and well educated jobs (even lawyers have a higher suicide rate) as do jobs that may not require higher education but are more technically-oriented (farming/fishing industry, construction, etc.).

CASPER has only been in place since about 2014 and hasn't been standardized amongst all medical schools yet.

I guess the question I'm looking for people's inputs on is, since med/vet/law/etc. schools are pretty much the gatekeepers for their respective professions, do you think its also partly on them to identify and screen applicants that have a higher risk towards adverse outcomes? For the sake of those individuals themselves as well as the profession as a whole?

I do feel like schools try to do that now with some of the questions asked for essays and in depth evaluation of transcripts. I think sometimes though you just don't know who is going to truly be resilient and what assortment of life concoctions are enough to push someone across that threshold. I do feel like those who have "short" memories are better suited to remain healthy, kind of like sports when players can forget about a bad play and get right back to business. And even here, we try to warn people who know they have depression that they really need to be self aware of the pitfalls of having that in this profession.

 

[Lupin21]

Tis why I will always and forever push people to have outside hobbies that bring them joy. Outlets are so incredibly important for keeping mental health. Hopefully there are some physical activities enjoyed too since sitting around in school all day is certainly bad for the body. 😀

 

[PippyPony]

I guess the question I'm looking for people's inputs on is, since med/vet/law/etc. schools are pretty much the gatekeepers for their respective professions, do you think its also partly on them to identify and screen applicants that have a higher risk towards adverse outcomes? For the sake of those individuals themselves as well as the profession as a whole?

... I am not sure about this. I didn't know this was a thing they were doing in human med.

I had a bad visceral response upon reading it and was about to argue against it, but then I devil's-advocated myself out of all my own objections before I could get to the point of writing them down.

...So basically I'm not sure what point I'm trying to make here or why I bothered to chime in.🤣

 

[Lupin21]

... I am not sure about this. I didn't know this was a thing they were doing in human med.

I had a bad visceral response upon reading it and was about to argue against it, but then I devil's-advocated myself out of all my own objections before I could get to the point of writing them down.

...So basically I'm not sure what point I'm trying to make here or why I bothered to chime in.🤣

I think this type of evaluation is honestly done better in younger ages. If it is caught early enough in life, I feel like there is time to find the triggers, find the right combination of therapy and meds, and be able to have a handle on it when entering these types of professions. However, as those who get accepted every year, go through school, and then graduate come to find out, you can tell others until you're blue in the face what it is like, but until someone is living it, they cannot comprehend.

Diagnosing early is important, the groundwork and understanding that there is increased risk with our profession, then ensuring a support system during the trial both during school and being out in the real world to readjust as needed will help. The resources and how to deal with it are still a ways away, so people need to understand that they have to be their own advocate. Which goes against instincts I feel, so, stuck in a catch 22 there. All I can do is offer up my ear and words of support to those I worry are in danger either in person or here.

 

[SkiOtter]

Tis why I will always and forever push people to have outside hobbies that bring them joy. Outlets are so incredibly important for keeping mental health. Hopefully there are some physical activities enjoyed too since sitting around in school all day is certainly bad for the body. 😀

Physical activities are bad for my body 🤣

 

[Lupin21]

Physical activities are bad for my body 🤣

at least going for walks and some routine stretching though!! Muscles get so tight from sitting and stress!

 

[SkiOtter]

at least going for walks and some routine stretching though!! Muscles get so tight from sitting and stress!

My joints are too loose already

 

[vetmedhead]

Tis why I will always and forever push people to have outside hobbies that bring them joy. Outlets are so incredibly important for keeping mental health. Hopefully there are some physical activities enjoyed too since sitting around in school all day is certainly bad for the body. 😀

Ugh, being back in classes and sitting all day is completely jacking with my back at the moment. I've been taking the dog on 30 min - 1 hour walks and it's been helping a lot

 

[PippyPony]

I tried to twist/pop my rotator cuff intentionally during my exam yesterday because I was trying to remember some stuff from anatomy (I know people ≠ dogs, but it helped me anyways). Did not succeed in getting that to pop, but did discover that I can't roll my shoulders back anymore without an obscene amount of cracking from all directions. I should probably not sit hunched over for 14+ hours a day.

 

[DRider13]

My joints are too loose already

I feel this. Literally.

 

[Melchizedek]

My joints are too loose already

Maybe you should roll them tighter

 

[that redhead]

Informal research question for those in veterinary practice (either as vets or techs or assistants):

What do you find to be the biggest contributing factor to the poor mental health in vet med?

For me personally or the profession as a whole?

The whole profession, I would boil it down to not being able to disconnect work from personal life. Not able to leave work at work, not being able to care less about a pet than the owner, taking professional criticism personally, etc.

For me, it’s the difficult owners. Anything from not bringing in deathly ill animals in a timely fashion to not acknowledging their dog needs a muzzle. Getting unsuitable dog breeds, having too many cats, not accepting my recommendations, consulting Dr Google above all, being nasty to my support staff, entitlement overall.

 

[that redhead]

@batsenecal just wanted to chime in re: not being contacted after work. I only get calls if I’m on-call, and even then it’s really limited. My day off is respected. Find a place with capable staff that can deal with things as they arise. Write detailed, clear notes especially on the sickies or unknowns so if someone has a question about next step, they can read, “oh, bats wanted to do a GI panel next. Let’s schedule the client for that.” Finding fellow doctors who are team players and not “my case/your case” will be really helpful too.

It isn’t a laughable desire to have by any stretch, but I would tread lightly as if you jump right out and say “don’t you dare contact me on my day off” it’s going to get your some side-eyes. After all, you simply don’t have to answer your phone 🙂

 

[genny]

@batsenecal just wanted to chime in re: not being contacted after work. I only get calls if I’m on-call, and even then it’s really limited. My day off is respected. Find a place with capable staff that can deal with things as they arise. Write detailed, clear notes especially on the sickies or unknowns so if someone has a question about next step, they can read, “oh, bats wanted to do a GI panel next. Let’s schedule the client for that.” Finding fellow doctors who are team players and not “my case/your case” will be really helpful too.

It isn’t a laughable desire to have by any stretch, but I would tread lightly as if you jump right out and say “don’t you dare contact me on my day off” it’s going to get your some side-eyes. After all, you simply don’t have to answer your phone 🙂

I wholeheartedly agree with this. Finding the right group of people to work with makes a job so much more bearable. So ask the questions that let you know if it’s the kind of place where you want to work instead of drawing lines in the sand, unless they really are absolute deal-breakers and you’re comfortable burning that bridge.

 

[lilylilac]

Some late night thoughts because I can’t sleep. My hair has been very curly all my life, but I’ve been very upset with how much curl has been lost over the past couple years. One contributing factor is probably that I’ve been dyeing it every 8-12 weeks for about 3 years now to cover the premature gray hair I have. I don’t really know how much gray hair I have, but based on my current roots, it’s not a subtle amount. Part of why I keep dyeing my hair is because I’m single and I’m worried that men won’t find me as attractive with so much gray hair. I’m also just having a hard time accepting it. I feel like it should be a badge of honor though. Like, I earned these grays going through a PhD and then almost being done with vet school. Has anyone else gone prematurely gray, and how did you accept it? I want my healthy curly hair back but I’m not sure I’m at the point yet where I’m happy with the grays.

 

[ajs513]

@batsenecal coincidentally I just got out of a lunch talk about compassion fatigue and I asked the lecturer about your concerns (but asked as myself of course) so I could get some outside feedback from someone who specializes in this. Her take was this:

Make sure you read the description of duties carefully for wherever you’re applying and negotiating with. If there isn’t a description of duties then that’s a red flag. From there, discuss specifics about when you can be contacted. For example, she has a 5 year old child whose bedtime is 7:30 pm. If she weren’t managing the hospital and were an associate, she’d request that she not be contacted after 7:30 pm. Or if you go to church on Sundays from 9:00 am to 12:00 pm, request that you not be contacted. It’s not realistic as an associate to request that you not be contacted at all. However, you can absolutely request specifics about when you don’t want to be contacted. You can also modify that as things change, like if for instance your mother were in the hospital (god forbid, of course) and you wanted no contact for a few days while everything settles down. If in your description of duties anything specifically says that you’re not responsible for something, bring that up. You’re within your right to do that. On the flip side, if something isn’t specifically listed but it happens and you’re not comfortable with it, you can discuss that with your employer. A big point that she made was that employers are focused on you practicing good medicine. They are not responsible for helping you avoid compassion fatigue. That’s your responsibility, and you can take steps to discuss with your employer how you would like to do that since it will allow you to practice good medicine.

 

[battie]

That seems fair and in line with what TRH said. If shes on call, she gets calls; if shes not on call, she doesnt.

 

[PippyPony]

Some late night thoughts because I can’t sleep. My hair has been very curly all my life, but I’ve been very upset with how much curl has been lost over the past couple years. One contributing factor is probably that I’ve been dyeing it every 8-12 weeks for about 3 years now to cover the premature gray hair I have. I don’t really know how much gray hair I have, but based on my current roots, it’s not a subtle amount. Part of why I keep dyeing my hair is because I’m single and I’m worried that men won’t find me as attractive with so much gray hair. I’m also just having a hard time accepting it. I feel like it should be a badge of honor though. Like, I earned these grays going through a PhD and then almost being done with vet school. Has anyone else gone prematurely gray, and how did you accept it? I want my healthy curly hair back but I’m not sure I’m at the point yet where I’m happy with the grays.

Might be related to normal hormonal changes and not the dye? My sister and my mother both had very curly hair when they were young and their hair suddenly went straight in their late 20s/early 30s.

Could always try a perm if you miss the curls a lot?

 

[lilylilac]

Might be related to normal hormonal changes and not the dye? My sister and my mother both had very curly hair when they were young and their hair suddenly went straight in their late 20s/early 30s.

Could always try a perm if you miss the curls a lot?

I’ve thought of that too, but in the sense that I’ve been taking birth control pills for about 7-8 years now and maybe they’ve slowly changed up my curl pattern. There’s also stress and genetics at play too, so I think I just have a ton of things against me.

 

[PippyPony]

I hope there are some beneficial outcomes from this coronavirus outbreak.

Such as: more insight into high virulence strains of coronaviridae, and a crackdown on the wildlife trade in China.

 

[CoffeeQuestionMark]

@dolphin106258 career change?

 

[Stroganoff]

and a crackdown on the wildlife trade in China.

I think they were tryna eat the sneks, not just trade them.

 

[DRider13]

Some late night thoughts because I can’t sleep. My hair has been very curly all my life, but I’ve been very upset with how much curl has been lost over the past couple years. One contributing factor is probably that I’ve been dyeing it every 8-12 weeks for about 3 years now to cover the premature gray hair I have. I don’t really know how much gray hair I have, but based on my current roots, it’s not a subtle amount. Part of why I keep dyeing my hair is because I’m single and I’m worried that men won’t find me as attractive with so much gray hair. I’m also just having a hard time accepting it. I feel like it should be a badge of honor though. Like, I earned these grays going through a PhD and then almost being done with vet school. Has anyone else gone prematurely gray, and how did you accept it? I want my healthy curly hair back but I’m not sure I’m at the point yet where I’m happy with the grays.

I've had grey hairs since I was in high school. I recall finding them as young as 14 yo. I have even more now, even though I am still a youngin' (mid 20s). Anytime people ask if I have grey hairs I correct them and say, "Actually, they're silver. And silver is the colour of wisdom." 😉

It usually gets a laugh and then I don't feel so self-conscious about it. Or I tell them that now I'm in style since there is currently a trend where teens/women dye all their hair grey/silver!

Also, I've got very curly hair when it's short. I dyed mine for years and never even knew it was curly at that time because the dye weighed it down and caused a lot of damage. It took a long time to grow it out and cut off all the damaged stuff, but it was worth it.

 

[that redhead]

I think they were tryna eat the sneks, not just trade them.

“Wildlife trade” doesn’t literally mean trading the animals, it means moving them to various interested parties, either from the wild, farms or private vendors. Many of the animals in the wildlife “trade” are eaten but there are also those kept as pets or used for other body parts (traditional medicine, rugs, etc).

 

[TheGirlWithTheFernTattoo]

Hey salary/wage question for the masses:

For a tech-assistant type position, would you expect there to be a wage difference for an emerg/specialty hospital (that requires nights/weekends/holidays) compared to a typical day GP practice? If so, how much of a difference?

 

[CoffeeQuestionMark]

Hey salary/wage question for the masses:

For a tech-assistant type position, would you expect there to be a wage difference for an emerg/specialty hospital (that requires nights/weekends/holidays) compared to a typical day GP practice? If so, how much of a difference?

I wouldn't except a pay difference to work weekends. Here standard holiday pay is time and a half. In the past I have been offered overnight differentials of between $1-$1.50/hr.

 

[DVMDream]

I have so much to input on the discussion about what can change in the field to help. I'm going to hop onto my laptop in a bit and touch upon some points.

Some statements in here that people have made that you can't expect when working in vet med are contributing to the problem even and I'll explain why.

 

[DVMDream]

I am going to touch upon things one at a time in their own individual post.

Someone asked if the suicide rate in vets was the same back in the 70's and the answer is there was a study done on suicide rates in vets and as much as I am shocked to hear this, they have always been as high as they are now. They looked back on suicide rates in vets over decades and it has remained the same, alarmingly high. This indicates it has to be something innate to vet med that doesn't involve the debt. It has to be the clients, management, compassion fatigue or it has to be the type of people attracted to the profession.

 

[DVMDream]

There shouldn't be any reason why pet health insurance shouldn't work.

If you look across the pond at the UK, the vast majority of pet owner's have pet insurance. It is actually more rare for them to not have it. And it has not turned into the cluster**** that is human medical insurance here in the US.