Rank list help

[9Rads9]

I know its early, but I've already interviewed at the majority of programs I'll be ranking and I'm already starting to think about rank lists.

My top programs, in no particular order, are OHSU, UW, U Colorado, U Utah, UNM, U Arizona. What do you all think?

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[speedyxx626]

Each person has their own pros and cons when making a rank list. Maybe give us some of those for each? What programs did you leave with a good “gut feeling”? Location? Weather? Quality of living? Did you get along with the residents and faculty? Don’t let other people tell you what to pick solely based on “prestige”. We’re all different with our own goals in mind.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

One way to check how desirable a radiology training program is is to check how likely for its fellowship to fill, and also who fills them.

In general, if a fellowship fills with FMG or AOA radiology grads, it’s considered to be less competitive.

 

[cyberchicken001]

One way to check how desirable a radiology training program is is to check how likely for its fellowship to fill, and also who fills them.

In general, if a fellowship fills with FMG or AOA radiology grads, it’s considered to be less competitive.

Where can one find this info?

 

[Cognovi]

Where can one find this info?

Sometimes the department website has a list of fellows. Sometimes you have to casually ask the program for an internal roster of current residents and fellows.

 

[9Rads9]

I guess what I mean is what are peoples thoughts on strengths/weaknesses of these programs?

I already have a match list in mind but its based only on location, not really on anything else. I didn't feel like they were all that substantially different when I was there.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

UW, Utah, Colorado are strong. OHSU strong in IR.

UNM relatively weaker

 

[Rads4lyfe]

I guess what I mean is what are peoples thoughts on strengths/weaknesses of these programs?

I already have a match list in mind but its based only on location, not really on anything else. I didn't feel like they were all that substantially different when I was there.

UW > Colorado >= Utah > OHSU > Arizona >= UNM

 

[Derv]

I matched at Utah last year and one of the big reasons I ranked it at the top was the location. You are going to get good training at all of those programs, but in the end I think the most important part of the decision is figuring out what city would make you happy. If you are single, a minority, and like night life and cultural events, then SLC is probably not the place. Downtown SLC is up-and-coming, and the University has a lot of non-Utahns, but its not the most exciting place and certainly not very diverse. UW, OHSU, and Colorado are all in bigger, more vibrant, more diverse cities. Seattle and Portland are two of the most desirable places in the country to live these days but they are expensive places to live! If you find yourself liking to go to sporting events, art galleries, concerts, new restaurants and bars, then these are awesome places to live. If, on the other hand, you want to spend your days off in the winter shredding the greatest snow on earth and summers hiking, climbing, and mountain biking, then Utah is by far the best choice for you. At this point nobody can make your rank list for you, you are just going to have to figure out what you want from the next 5+ years of your life. Its exciting!

 

[5777]

You're not going to find a lot of people who can accurately place Mayo AZ in that list given that the residency is relatively new.

In my opinion, Mayo AZ is up there with UW, higher rated than Utah/Colorado. However, very different experiences between UW and Mayo AZ--my understanding of the UW program is old, but it was fairly scattered across different facilities, with lots of "clinical faculty" (i.e., not nationally recognized academicians). Bigger residency in terms of numbers. Mayo AZ has gathered a fairly impressive list of faculty, recruiting them from other programs (UCSF, Mallinckrodt, Mayo Rochester, others), and is much "tighter" in terms of experience for their residents--there are fewer residents, and they get consistent training by the core faculty, mostly at either the Mayo Hospital or the nearby Clinic.

Full disclosure: I happen to know a number of the faculty at Mayo AZ, I am friends with them, and have a friend who was a fellow there a while back. So I may be biased--but it's a great place to train, and I know the faculty go to bat for their fellows and residents as opportunities arise.

The real question is whether you want to be based in Seattle vs. Phoenix...very different weather and sun-exposure! Not to mention cost of living.

 

[jchung2]

UW (Seattle) is a top 10 program. They are huge so of course they are going to have some clinically oriented faculty, but they have a a slew of world-famous radiologists. One of the most established programs in the country. Mayo-Scottsdale seems like they are really growing and trying to develop their academic pedigree; however, we are talking different tiers here. Mayo-Scottsdale is a 2nd tier program.

 

[5777]

UW (Seattle) is a top 10 program. They are huge so of course they are going to have some clinically oriented faculty, but they have a a slew of world-famous radiologists. One of the most established programs in the country. Mayo-Scottsdale seems like they are really growing and trying to develop their academic pedigree; however, we are talking different tiers here. Mayo-Scottsdale is a 2nd tier program.

I'm not sure you are very familiar with Mayo AZ, because the "academic pedigree" is pretty high. Look--I'm not taking anything away from UW, but with a smaller faculty and smaller residency, you get more exposure to "big names" and "outstanding teachers" at Mayo AZ compared to UW. Not in all divisions, perhaps, but many--for example:

Thoracic Radiology
Mayo: Gotway, former PD of UCSF Radiology residency and winner of multiple teacher of the year awards
UW: Reddy (UW), former associate PD of UCSF Radiology residency
Ultrasound
Mayo: Patel, current president elect of Society of Radiologists in Ultrasound and winner of UCSF residency teacher of the year
UW: Dubinsky
Body Imaging/Abdomen
Mayo: Menias, former Assoc. PD of Mallinckrodt, current RSNA educator of the year, multiple teacher of the year awards at Mallinckrodt; Johnson, former president Society of Abdominal Radiology and current editor of Abdominal Imaging, winner of multiple teacher of the year awards at Mayo Rochester
UW: Dighe
Neuro
Mayo: Chong, former president of Western Neuroradiology; Ross, AJNR Senior Editor, Gold Medal Award winner ASSR
UW: Shibata
IR
Mayo: Oklu, Fellow in SIR, amazing translational research lab at Mayo
UW: Valji
MSK
Mayo: Kransdorf, editor of Skeletal Radiology
UW: Chew, Richardson

Looking over the list, I'd give the nod to Mayo. Then when you consider that the faculty at Mayo is about 30% of the size of UW (42 faculty vs. 134 faculty), you have to agree that with the same or more academic leaders at Mayo, the residents at Mayo get more exposure to the leaders.

As I said, I think people tend to fall back onto old stereotypes for programs in general. I happen to be familiar with both organizations, but as I said I don't know UW as well. Mayo AZ punches way above their weight class in terms of academic pedigree.

 

[jchung2]

I'm happy that you are so adamant. Let's agree to disagree. I will say for the record, in most people's eyes (including my own), UW>Mayo-Scottsdale.

 

[5777]

I agree we disagree but maybe not in the way that you think

I agree in the eyes of many, UW > Mayo AZ. I'd expect you to have that opinion since you did your residency there.

As I initially said, I think that "ranking" for many reflects an unfamiliarity with Mayo AZ because the residency is new.

I don't agree with your premise that the "academic pedigree" in radiology is higher at UW as it pertains to a resident's experience--objectively that's not actually true. My guess is that the 4 residents/year at Mayo AZ get more consistent exposure to academic leaders and recognized teachers than the 10-12 residents/year at UW, since the Mayo residents do practically all their work at the same place as all the academic leaders at Mayo all the time. Most of the experience is at one hospital and clinic where all the leaders work. UW is a different model.

Both places are great places to train--you just aren't as familiar with Mayo AZ, so not sure how you are comparing it to UW. I didn't train at either place, but I'm familiar with both and your comment about academic pedigree doesn't really ring true to me.

For the record.