Rant: Cranial OMM is easily the biggest waste of time. This is complete quackery.

[deleted1082375]

To preface this, I really like OMM when it comes to ganglionic releases, GI disorders, and sports med applications. However, cranial is easily the biggest load of crap I've ever experienced in my life. In fact, it makes me embarrassed to be a DO student.

I have spent hours in lab trying to feel pulsations and fluctuations in spinal fluid and the CRI (cranial rhythmic impulse). My hands were just awkwardly placed on my partner's head with the lights turned off and they expect me to palpate some non-existent life force emanating from his brain. We can apparently feel "movements" in the skull and are expected to learn a technique called "phantom hands" where we exaggerate the movements of the skull with our fingers. The skull in no way moves like this nor can I feel anything abnormal. We are also expected to learn how the skull moves around these made up axes, the most important being the SBS. I choose to call this axis the Stupid Bull **** axis.

They expect me to cure depression, correct latching for babies, etc by spreading sutures on the skull and relieving pressure. Like bro, we can't even cure depression with chemical modification and you think pressing on someone's skull for 90 seconds is going to fix them??

I'm just putting this out there and would like to hear other people's experiences with cranial and other OMM stuff they find absurd. Gotta go study this stupid bull **** now.

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[_DeBakey_]

Welcome to the club bucko

 

[Hippocrates II]

You can really only blame yourself if you're spending hours in the lab trying to make sense of this stuff.

 

[deleted1081396]

 

[deleted1082375]

You can really only blame yourself if you're spending hours in the lab trying to make sense of this stuff.

should have done better in undergrad.

 

[Lawpy]

I think OMM in its entirety should be eliminated

 

[fldoctorgirl]

You can really only blame yourself if you're spending hours in the lab trying to make sense of this stuff.

Was going to write this exact same comment.

 

[deleted1082375]

Was going to write this exact same comment.

It was required lab. I in no way go in on my own. Labs are multiple hours long.

 

[culturekweenXx]

What convinced you ganglionic releases were legitimate?

 

[deleted1082375]

What convinced you ganglionic releases were legitimate?

makes me take a giant poop every time.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

makes me take a giant poop every time.

So does my pre-workout. Maybe I should write it up and submit it to JOM as a novel osteopathic treatment.

 

[deleted1082375]

So does my pre-workout. Maybe I should write it up and submit it to JOM as a novel osteopathic treatment.

Can I co-author? Sounds like I inspired you.

Pre-workout makes my arms and fingers tingly. Not a good feeling. I prefer the ganglionic release.

 

[DO2015CA]

To preface this, I really like OMM when it comes to ganglionic releases, GI disorders, and sports med applications. However, cranial is easily the biggest load of crap I've ever experienced in my life. In fact, it makes me embarrassed to be a DO student.

I have spent hours in lab trying to feel pulsations and fluctuations in spinal fluid and the CRI (cranial rhythmic impulse). My hands were just awkwardly placed on my partner's head with the lights turned off and they expect me to palpate some non-existent life force emanating from his brain. We can apparently feel "movements" in the skull and are expected to learn a technique called "phantom hands" where we exaggerate the movements of the skull with our fingers. The skull in no way moves like this nor can I feel anything abnormal. We are also expected to learn how the skull moves around these made up axes, the most important being the SBS. I choose to call this axis the Stupid Bull **** axis.

They expect me to cure depression, correct latching for babies, etc by spreading sutures on the skull and relieving pressure. Like bro, we can't even cure depression with chemical modification and you think pressing on someone's skull for 90 seconds is going to fix them??

I'm just putting this out there and would like to hear other people's experiences with cranial and other OMM stuff they find absurd. Gotta go study this stupid bull **** now.

Cranial is bull****. But it’s weird for the examples you chose latching babies as an example since thats the only plausible one since their skull bones arent fused. Not saying it does work, but I’d say curing depression, ear infections, headaches, etc are way more out there examples.

 

[AcesCracked]

I hate to have to be the one who breaks this to you, but ganglionic releases don't work either..

 

[deleted1082375]

I hate to have to be the one who breaks this to you, but ganglionic releases don't work either..

rEaLlY????

 

[DameJulie]

Kind of off-topic but does anyone have any resources for L5/sacrum/pelvis diagnosis and treatment? I find this the next most confusing topic after cranial lol

 

[kuzy]

Ahh...Cranial

I remember when we had it last year. The OMM instructor came up to me and my lab partner, closed her eyes, put her hand on his forearm and said "he's in flexion...now going into extension, do you feel it?" I just sat there nodding hoping that she would go away, and feeling like I had accidentally joined a cult

 

[DO2015CA]

Ahh...Cranial

I remember when we had it last year. The OMM instructor came up to me and my lab partner, closed her eyes, put her hand on his forearm and said "he's in flexion...now going into extension, do you feel it?" I just sat there nodding hoping that she would go away, and feeling like I had accidentally joined a cult

Lol there are worse cults to join. At least we don’t have a death pact.... that you know of yet

 

[ohmanwaddup]

The only consistent thing I've heard about cranial is students who have instructors preform it on them and then complain of headaches and nightmares for a week.

 

[culturekweenXx]

The only consistent thing I've heard about cranial is students who have instructors preform it on them and then complain of headaches and nightmares for a week.

Night terrors where your least favorite instructor is standing beside your bed doing the vault hold

 

[BobbyKoch]

it's so strange to me... I think there is a great case to be made for MSK training and some of these hands-on interventions. anecdotally, everyone I know who has received OMT has had positive things to say about it. not just the "miraculous cure" stories you hear from faculty but more in the sense that they felt having someone touch them validated the incredibly subjective experience of pain or other dysfunction. I really do think that sitting with someone and having them touch you adds value to certain patient encounters by cultivating a sense of trust between patient and doctor.

and yet, so many DO schools insist on clinging to anachronistic studies with small sample sizes and utter nonsense like cranial and Chapman's points. you don't see OTs and PTs resorting to voodoo to make their case for having a distinct and valuable role in patient care. you don't see MDs trotting out poorly-designed studies from decades ago to justify treatments (well, not often anyway...).

we spend so much time in OS lab learning garbage it becomes especially striking when we learn something useful. our department has a new, young OS professor who is really terrific. this doctor freely admitted (in private) that there is no way to achieve competency with manipulation in the 400 (?) hours we get in preclinical, and that the real skill is developed by putting hands on lots and lots of sick patients in clinical, residency and beyond. so why can't we cut the BS and bring this profession into modernity?

imagine this: OS curriculum that is tied directly to evidence-based practice for PT/OT/rehab. cut away all the fat and integrate OS directly into systems/blocks. Neuro block: Learn about rehabbing stroke, working with degenerative/demyelinating diseases, etc. Cardio: conditioning, preventative exercise, rehab after CABG, MI, etc. it provides an excellent opportunity for the inter-professional collaboration that admins get off on. bring in PT, OT, RT and see how they handle a case. what better way to train the future leaders of the healthcare team than to provide them some insights into what these allied professionals do and help us integrate our practice with theirs. H O L I S T I C. we had some (short) OS lectures on doing manipulation in a hospital setting or with people in recovery from various insults--more of this!

with some changes I could envision more DOs actually using a modernized OMT in their practice years. I could explain what a DO is to friends/family/patients with more pride and less cringe. I think these changes would eliminate some DO distinctiveness, but I think that unfortunately some of that distinctiveness stems from quackery and stigma. let's let it go.

 

[Goro]

To preface this, I really like OMM when it comes to ganglionic releases, GI disorders, and sports med applications. However, cranial is easily the biggest load of crap I've ever experienced in my life. In fact, it makes me embarrassed to be a DO student.

I have spent hours in lab trying to feel pulsations and fluctuations in spinal fluid and the CRI (cranial rhythmic impulse). My hands were just awkwardly placed on my partner's head with the lights turned off and they expect me to palpate some non-existent life force emanating from his brain. We can apparently feel "movements" in the skull and are expected to learn a technique called "phantom hands" where we exaggerate the movements of the skull with our fingers. The skull in no way moves like this nor can I feel anything abnormal. We are also expected to learn how the skull moves around these made up axes, the most important being the SBS. I choose to call this axis the Stupid Bull **** axis.

They expect me to cure depression, correct latching for babies, etc by spreading sutures on the skull and relieving pressure. Like bro, we can't even cure depression with chemical modification and you think pressing on someone's skull for 90 seconds is going to fix them??

I'm just putting this out there and would like to hear other people's experiences with cranial and other OMM stuff they find absurd. Gotta go study this stupid bull **** now.

Preaching to the choir, kid.

"Close your eyes and think of England"

 

[Osminog]

The “cranial rhythmic impulse,” also known as feeling the blood course through the arteries of your fingers when they’re pressed against your classmate’s noggin.

 

[Lawpy]

it's so strange to me... I think there is a great case to be made for MSK training and some of these hands-on interventions. anecdotally, everyone I know who has received OMT has had positive things to say about it. not just the "miraculous cure" stories you hear from faculty but more in the sense that they felt having someone touch them validated the incredibly subjective experience of pain or other dysfunction. I really do think that sitting with someone and having them touch you adds value to certain patient encounters by cultivating a sense of trust between patient and doctor.

and yet, so many DO schools insist on clinging to anachronistic studies with small sample sizes and utter nonsense like cranial and Chapman's points. you don't see OTs and PTs resorting to voodoo to make their case for having a distinct and valuable role in patient care. you don't see MDs trotting out poorly-designed studies from decades ago to justify treatments (well, not often anyway...).

we spend so much time in OS lab learning garbage it becomes especially striking when we learn something useful. our department has a new, young OS professor who is really terrific. this doctor freely admitted (in private) that there is no way to achieve competency with manipulation in the 400 (?) hours we get in preclinical, and that the real skill is developed by putting hands on lots and lots of sick patients in clinical, residency and beyond. so why can't we cut the BS and bring this profession into modernity?

imagine this: OS curriculum that is tied directly to evidence-based practice for PT/OT/rehab. cut away all the fat and integrate OS directly into systems/blocks. Neuro block: Learn about rehabbing stroke, working with degenerative/demyelinating diseases, etc. Cardio: conditioning, preventative exercise, rehab after CABG, MI, etc. it provides an excellent opportunity for the inter-professional collaboration that admins get off on. bring in PT, OT, RT and see how they handle a case. what better way to train the future leaders of the healthcare team than to provide them some insights into what these allied professionals do and help us integrate our practice with theirs. H O L I S T I C. we had some (short) OS lectures on doing manipulation in a hospital setting or with people in recovery from various insults--more of this!

with some changes I could envision more DOs actually using a modernized OMT in their practice years. I could explain what a DO is to friends/family/patients with more pride and less cringe. I think these changes would eliminate some DO distinctiveness, but I think that unfortunately some of that distinctiveness stems from quackery and stigma. let's let it go.

There's no reason to have any distinctiveness of any kind. Physical therapy and rehab training benefits MDs too so let's not make things exclusive to DOs in name of history and tradition.

 

[Lawpy]

This is why i continue to push for complete dissolution of AOA/COCA/NBOME and reintegrate DOs into MDs while shutting down the new schools arising from expansion that wouldn't survive LCME standards

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

The “cranial rhythmic impulse,” also known as feeling the blood course through the arteries of your fingers when they’re pressed against your classmate’s noggin.

Lol wow is that a thing

 

[ohmanwaddup]

Lol wow is that a thing

depends on who you ask lol

 

[deleted1082375]

Lol wow is that a thing

no, it's meant to be the movement of the cerebral spinal fluid. he's making a joke of it really being the pulsation of the temporal arteries. I made the same joke when my OMM partner swore to god he could feel the cranial impulse.

 

[Osmosis_JonesDO]

Kind of off-topic but does anyone have any resources for L5/sacrum/pelvis diagnosis and treatment? I find this the next most confusing topic after cranial lol

I think the OMM online med ed videos made this fairly simple. Just learn the rules and think of it like a puzzle

 

[BobbyKoch]

Kind of off-topic but does anyone have any resources for L5/sacrum/pelvis diagnosis and treatment? I find this the next most confusing topic after cranial lol

this video and part two are all you need, imo:

 

[ohmanwaddup]

this video and part two are all you need, imo:

Ugh this video is a STAPLE of any OMM or comlex exam preparation. It is gods gift to those who messed around in college.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

no, it's meant to be the movement of the cerebral spinal fluid. he's making a joke of it really being the pulsation of the temporal arteries. I made the same joke when my OMM partner swore to god he could feel the cranial impulse.

Lmao what quackery are they teaching you guys

Some of it is helpful. A bone wizard helped my ankle pain.

 

[Animalcules]

I had to google this. What a bunch of horse****. I can’t believe this is taught at DO schools. It sounds like scientology on steroids. As long as this quackery is taught, I don’t know why anyone would go to a DO school. Is this what they mean when they say DOs are MD+ degrees?

 

[MDMechEngr]

I had to google this. What a bunch of horse****. I can’t believe this is taught at DO schools. It sounds like scientology on steroids. As long as this quackery is taught, I don’t know why anyone would go to a DO school. Is this what they mean when they say DOs are MD+ degrees?

Some enter the kingdom of heaven directly. Others have to pass through purgatory before entering the kingdom of heaven.

 

[sylvanthus]

Just fake it confidently during OMM, memorize the nonsense for boards, and then never look back. Ive discussed cranial with a few MDs and they look at me like Im completely nuts.

 

[sloh]

I had to google this. What a bunch of horse****. I can’t believe this is taught at DO schools. It sounds like scientology on steroids. As long as this quackery is taught, I don’t know why anyone would go to a DO school. Is this what they mean when they say DOs are MD+ degrees?

Some DO students drink so much of the OMM kool-aid, they will delay starting residency and pursue additional OMM fellowship!

 

[Ho0v-man]

Wait until you do a rotation with someone who specializes in cranial omm. The best part of wearing a mask this year has been hiding my face while watching 45 minute cranial treatments.

 

[deleted1082375]

I had to google this. What a bunch of horse****. I can’t believe this is taught at DO schools. It sounds like scientology on steroids. As long as this quackery is taught, I don’t know why anyone would go to a DO school. Is this what they mean when they say DOs are MD+ degrees?

-poor grades to begin with
-even worse mcat ...literally some DO schools don't give a crap about MCAT, at least at mine doesn't... (there are kids with 490's and high 480's here who will 110% bomb their boards or barely pass and claim success)
-did a lot of drugs in college and cleaned up
-is crazy and likes omm
-had no chance to begin with but have family in the AOA or the school
-white or asian with average stats

 

[DO2015CA]

I had to google this. What a bunch of horse****. I can’t believe this is taught at DO schools. It sounds like scientology on steroids. As long as this quackery is taught, I don’t know why anyone would go to a DO school. Is this what they mean when they say DOs are MD+ degrees?

Nah and the vast majority of people shrug it off. I’d still say have to stomach through 1 lecture and 2 labs of this and throwing it away is worth becoming a physician. Just don’t bring that **** to the wards

 

[Lawpy]

Some enter the kingdom of heaven directly. Others have to pass through purgatory before entering the kingdom of heaven.

That's unfair. DOs shouldn't be viewed as backups with pseudoscience crap thrown in for those who couldn't go MD. Even more of a reason to merge DO back into MD and get rid of COCA/AOA/NBOME and True Believer OMM crap completely

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

That's unfair. DOs shouldn't be viewed as backups with pseudoscience crap thrown in for those who couldn't go MD. Even more of a reason to merge DO back into MD and get rid of COCA/AOA/NBOME and True Believer OMM crap completely

DO is viewed as a backup by most because the admissions standards are lower and the increased matching difficulty in competitive specialties or programs is real.

 

[Lawpy]

DO schools are med schools. Stop teaching pseudoscience in med school. Get rid of OMM now.

 

[Lawpy]

DO is viewed as a backup by most because the admissions standards are lower and the increased matching difficulty in competitive specialties or programs is real.

It's still hard to get into DO school and the stronger DO programs are arguably more competitive than several lower tier MD schools based on median accepted LizzyM scores

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

It's still hard to get into DO school and the stronger DO programs are arguably more competitive than several lower tier MD schools based on median accepted LizzyM scores

On average, it is easier to get into DO schools. The fact that it’s still difficult doesn’t change that.

 

[Lawpy]

On average, it is easier to get into DO schools. The fact that it’s still difficult doesn’t change that.

That i agree but there's still a huge variability in competitiveness among schools. And even if DO schools are less competitive, they really shouldn't be viewed as backups nor should admins justify it by adding crap like OMM and blaming students that learning pseudoscience is a punishment for not going MD.

 

[BuildingMyOwnLuck]

That i agree but there's still a huge variability in competitiveness among schools. And even if DO schools are less competitive, they really shouldn't be viewed as backups nor should admins justify it by adding crap like OMM and blaming students that learning pseudoscience is a punishment for not going MD.

To preface I’m in a DO school right now.

If it’s viewed as less competitive (which it is) then by default, it’s considered a backup. Why would anyone go to DO if you could go to MD?

Admins aren’t justifying anything by adding OMM, to have an open DO school COCA requires you to have an OMM component. So unless you somehow tell COCA to give up all their power and have the magical 1962 day where the degrees were converted to MDs, this won’t happen. Plus a lot of schools would close because there’s no way they have good enough standards for a MD school.

Tldr: like goro said, OMM is a tax for not getting into MD. At the end, we‘ll all be physicians, so it doesn’t matter, just gotta power though it

 

[DO2015CA]

Unfortunately, there are just simply too many DO schools and student to absorb them now. If it didn’t work in the 60s when there was a fraction then it won’t now

 

[Lawpy]

To preface I’m in a DO school right now.

If it’s viewed as less competitive (which it is) then by default, it’s considered a backup. Why would anyone go to DO if you could go to MD?

Admins aren’t justifying anything by adding OMM, to have an open DO school COCA requires you to have an OMM component. So unless you somehow tell COCA to give up all their power and have the magical 1962 day where the degrees were converted to MDs, this won’t happen. Plus a lot of schools would close because there’s no way they have good enough standards for a MD school.

Tldr: like goro said, OMM is a tax for not getting into MD. At the end, we‘ll all be physicians, so it doesn’t matter, just gotta power though it

While i agree with much of this post, it just feels wrong to me to consider the DO schools as a backup when both MD and DO schools produce quality physicians, and are difficult to get into. There are personal reasons why people choose DO over MD (maybe the DO school is closest to family) or maybe DO is substantially cheaper than MD.

I also disagree with the notion that OMM is a tax for those who couldn't go MD. If MD = DO, there's no reason to punish DO students by forcing them to learn OMM. Caribbean schools are far less competitive and even more of a backup than DO schools and they don't learn OMM. Yes they compromise their chances at the match, but DO students still face similar problems but at less severe extent.

I just want to get rid of these barriers and have all US med schools covered by the same regulatory body with nearly identical standards. Enough with these artificial barriers that divide med schools into 2 broad categories and then punishing one of them by spreading pseudoscience that humiliates the profession.

 

[Lawpy]

Unfortunately, there are just simply too many DO schools and student to absorb them now. If it didn’t work in the 60s when there was a fraction then it won’t now

A lot of schools are going to close unfortunately, but it's for the better because we can't let garbage schools with little to no clinical sites keep popping up and ruining the profession by degrading it to midlevel status.

 

[DO2015CA]

A lot of schools are going to close unfortunately, but it's for the better because we can't let garbage schools with little to no clinical sites keep popping up and ruining the profession by degrading it to midlevel status.

Believe me I agree with you and would vote in support but I just don’t see it happening in this political climate. We have a make believe “shortage” there is no way LCME would take that bad PR of shutting down med schools. There is equally no way a lot of the subpar schools could improve their standards enough to meet LCME requirement; mainly the research infrastructure and funding requirements.

I think it is time to completely unify physicians but I just don’t see it happening any time soon