Oh god, I saw that. Whatever clinic that person was at sounds like it needs to be shut down. Geeze. Talk about using common sense.
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Oh god, I saw that. Whatever clinic that person was at sounds like it needs to be shut down. Geeze. Talk about using common sense.
It was perfect!! All I did was laugh at the comment someone made about wild packs of dogs and now there is a huge upheaval over there... I didn't give an opinion on any type of feeding. Oh well.. Pre-meds gonna pre-med!
I feel like I'm on reddit. I need to stop looking over there...
I died at your last comment... Hahah Dr. Google strikes again!!
😀 😉
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Thank you for letting me know about this thread.
Also, excellent post DVMD. I am anxiously awaiting the reply.
Thank you for letting me know about this thread.
Also, excellent post DVMD. I am anxiously awaiting the reply.
I can't quit refreshing it to see what genius idea the pre meds have come up with next. I wonder if they realize that wolves eat the entire animal including stomach and intestine which has a lot more nutrition than raw protein. But who am I to enlighten them, ,oh holy pre med student.
Omg. I should not have read that thread. That one person likes to spout a lot of "knowledge" on the subject but seems to have none! Domesticated dogs evolved eating the scraps of their humans which included cooked meats, vegetables and breads. This is a large reason why they have the nutritional demands they do.
But I can't post over there because I'm pissed! I'll devolve into "yeah! Well you're ****er!"
But I can't post over there because I'm pissed! I'll devolve into "yeah! Well you're ****er!"
Don't want to get involved other there, but will share this here if any are interested or whatnot: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v495/n7441/full/nature11837.html
I know the Washington Post did a story on it also.
And if I could from my phone, this would be as good a time as any for that someone's wrong on the internet xkcd cartoon...
I know the Washington Post did a story on it also.
And if I could from my phone, this would be as good a time as any for that someone's wrong on the internet xkcd cartoon...
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http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=1012703
Good luck not throwing your computer when you start reading it..
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I have better things to do than get riled up about what those idiots are conjuring.
The only reason I felt inclined to comment over there originally was when they got into the "vet med is just poor medicine" rant. H*** NO!
Thanks for the back-up guys, as always! 😍😍
I got your back with the science lol! Apparently that is not worth trusting though.
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Come to think of it we had a premed student come in the other day with a german Shepherd puppy for first series. we had already given the shots and realized it had tapeworms so we got a droncit inj ready and used a cookie to distract it while we gave it since it burns and the owner told us not to because it will make the dog like pain. No even sure how to respond to that? 😕
Yeah, if people fed me cookies while I was being stabbed with a needle, I would definitely like being stabbed then. 😛
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Tell the owner that next time they get tapeworms they should take droncit inj without a cookie so they can feel the burn.
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There was actually a good discussion about this on VIN recently. People were talking about how the use of "Dr. google" is causing a notable increase in having to deal with those difficult know it all and always asking "what if" clients; not just for vets but in human medicine as well.
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Couldn't help myself - I looked and I posted. I'm logging off now so I'm not tempted to look at how people respond to my post.
I'm tempted to go back and comment some more on how he's bashing an entire medical profession that he has zero knowledge or experience with (since when are "ecology" and "physiology" synonymous with "nutrition"?!) but it's really not worth it. There's no getting through to someone like that. Fortunately his attitude makes it unlikely that many people will take him seriously.
Honestly, I think medical school must be a truly magical place. Most of the doctors I know are very logical, reasonable people who understand the limitations of their own knowledge. But ALL of the med/pre-med students I know are like "I intend to go to med school, because I already know EVERYTHING IN THE WORLD SO BOW DOWN BEFORE ME SLAVE!" They all seem to have this ridiculous greater-than-thou attitude and can't stand to be told that they're wrong. I would really like to know what magical process it is that changes idiots into reasonable doctors!
Honestly, I think medical school must be a truly magical place. Most of the doctors I know are very logical, reasonable people who understand the limitations of their own knowledge. But ALL of the med/pre-med students I know are like "I intend to go to med school, because I already know EVERYTHING IN THE WORLD SO BOW DOWN BEFORE ME SLAVE!" They all seem to have this ridiculous greater-than-thou attitude and can't stand to be told that they're wrong. I would really like to know what magical process it is that changes idiots into reasonable doctors!
We had was a client who was giving a cystitis medication to her cat, she's a chemist so she googled the dose and then administered 1/8th of it. obviously perfectly fine, right? (forget the name of the med) but DVM i work with looked it up - guess what, it metabolizes to acetaminophen in cats...
Honestly I don't even understand what he's arguing! Unless he does not genuinely understand that it's so difficult to create a diet for a dog from completely unprocessed foods that it is practically impossible for most people (even a knowledgeable person with a lot of time and money) that it would be completely irresponsible for every vet to recommend every owner to try it due to the extreme negative health problems that can result. Not very many people are as "smart" as he is (or as smart as he thinks he is... haha) and even the best intentioned people can have very negative consequences on their dogs if they do this incorrectly.
And I definitely agree with the premeds! haha I'm guessing med school makes a lot of them do a lot of growing up/the other ones get weeded out by the admissions process (I hope!)
Maybe the first few days of lecture when they s&*^ their pants and realize they don't know anything. Or maybe when they still act like a know it all in clinics or internship and a resident or clinician boxes their ears for being an idiot. Regardless, schools continue to produce competent and reasonable doctors for the most part.
In their defense though, I'm sure there are plenty of non-obnoxious pre-med students, the annoying voices just have a tendency to be louder. And I'm sure there's a lot more pre-med than pre-vet students so by default there ends up being more of them that are obnoxious. And besides, there are plenty of jerk pre-vet students too.
Ohhhhh wow. Why am I not surprised that he's into "alternative medicine"? No offense to anyone interested in it, but there is a lot of really weird crap in that field. . .
Edit: And he "educates himself" so he can communicate "intelligently" with his vet. I wish I could find that vet a buy him/her a very, very strong drink.
Edit: And he "educates himself" so he can communicate "intelligently" with his vet. I wish I could find that vet a buy him/her a very, very strong drink.
Hahahah, woops! Meant to post this in here, but then posted it in the original thread...
Let's try this again.
I wasn't really that irritated reading most of that thread. Everyone is being reasonable except for the one. But then I read the most recent post:
I also really enjoy that veterinary students and veterinarians are unable to think for themselves.
I do have a question for those of you who have had nutrition in vet school though. Do you feel that with your knowledge you could sit down with a client and make a plan for a raw diet from scratch? Or really evaluate one without specific break downs of nutritional content? I feel like that might be beyond the abilities of your average practitioner, no? I work with a vet who has a masters and several years of PhD (didn't finish, went to vet school instead) in nutrition in addition to her dvm and I don't think she would be capable of it.
I was just recently reading something about how they went through and evaluated a whole bunch of raw diets (many of which were created by veterinarians) and only two out of the 25 or so were nutritionally sound. And those were created by boarded veterinary nutritionists. Let me see if I can find it.
Let's try this again.
I wasn't really that irritated reading most of that thread. Everyone is being reasonable except for the one. But then I read the most recent post:
I also really enjoy that veterinary students and veterinarians are unable to think for themselves.
I do have a question for those of you who have had nutrition in vet school though. Do you feel that with your knowledge you could sit down with a client and make a plan for a raw diet from scratch? Or really evaluate one without specific break downs of nutritional content? I feel like that might be beyond the abilities of your average practitioner, no? I work with a vet who has a masters and several years of PhD (didn't finish, went to vet school instead) in nutrition in addition to her dvm and I don't think she would be capable of it.
I was just recently reading something about how they went through and evaluated a whole bunch of raw diets (many of which were created by veterinarians) and only two out of the 25 or so were nutritionally sound. And those were created by boarded veterinary nutritionists. Let me see if I can find it.
Balance it.com is a great website I use when my clients want to feed raw or home cooked. But I NEVER advocate raw food. I always advocate cooked, balanced meals and to start them off, I send them with recipes from a nutrition book.
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Sorely tempted to reply to that comment, but I'll continue to bite my tongue. This has not been the first time someone criticized veterinary medicine and it won't be the last.
According to the vets at my practice, very little about nutrition is covered in the standard vet school curriculum. Of course, it probably varies by location and then some students may have more elective opportunities, but from what I hear the offerings are fairly disappointing. 🙁
The ones who do seem to take more of an interest in diet spent more time educating themselves or working under the mentorship of a more experienced vet.
I'm sold. I'm definitely going to take my dog off her veterinary grade, specially formulated food for urinary health and put her on raw. Who cares that she had 4 kinds of crystals in her urine?
Seriously, this person keeps saying "I hope you stay open minded" but they're more close minded than any veterinary professional I've EVER met!
God this grinds my gears.
Seriously, this person keeps saying "I hope you stay open minded" but they're more close minded than any veterinary professional I've EVER met!
God this grinds my gears.
Right, 'cause we don't have to follow FDA/USDA regulations or anything. 🙄
That one really irritated me, especially since so many of our drugs/treatments are extremely similar to those in human medicine. What the heck does this guy think we're doing, cooking up something in the backyard and then shoving it down animals' throats?
Hoping someone more experienced will jump in to address that one. I'm not touching it.
Me too! I know the research is there! I know vets are educated and informed! I just don't know that us argue effectively.
Relevant:
Maybe let's just convince ourselves that this guy (why do I always assume the jerks are male?) is a troll? I think it will help me sleep better.
I think we can argue quite effectively... what this person is actually arguing about is the confusing part. Once presented with facts, he basically agrees with everyone yet then goes off on his own tangents, all while being incredibly condescending to our profession and yelling at other people to keep an open mind.
seriously.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think med students get too much information on human nutrition either. There is definitely a double standard present if my previous statement is true.
Yes, maybe. Internally I am boiling a bit. 😉
I think we can argue quite effectively... what this person is actually arguing about is the confusing part. Once presented with facts, he basically agrees with everyone yet then goes off on his own tangents, all while being incredibly condescending to our profession and yelling at other people to keep an open mind.
seriously.
Oh no! That was supposed to say "I'd argue effectively"! You guys are doing great!
Definitely more so. Don't let this jerk get you down... his/her "arguments" are pretty ridiculous.
Nice post, thank you for that!
Foxy is sexy when she goes all smart. 😉
this made my night!!!! Hahahahharelevant:
