RANT HERE thread

[DVMDream]

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Good to know you dont think LGBT families deserve to attempt to have kids ever. Even if living in a state or country that allows faith based foster and adoption agencies to refuse to work with us.

I never said they don't deserve to have kids. You're all reading into things way too much.

I'm saying having kids is not a need that supersedes saving lives. Ever. Having kids is a want, not a need.

Fertility treatment requires anesthesia, those same drugs are what is needed to keep patients on ventilators. Those anesthesia machines can be used for ventialtion too.

I've never said I don't think certain groups of people don't deserve to have kids or try for kids. I've said that the want for kids does not and will never supersede someone's right to live.

Children are a want in life, not a need.

 

[SkiOtter]

I never said they don't deserve to have kids. You're all reading into things way too much.

I'm saying having kids is not a need that supersedes saving lives. Ever. Having kids is a want, not a need.

I've never said I don't think certain groups of people don't deserve to have kids or try for kids. I've said that the want for kids does not and will never supersede someone's right to live.

Children are a want in life, not a need.

Ok but

Yeah, you'll never convince me that people have a need for fertility treatments. Ever. I'd argue that if you aren't conceiving there's a genetic reason for that and forcing your body to conceive when it can't naturally is just perpetuating poor fertility or spreading genetic defects.

 

[SkiOtter]

And also:

And you'll never convince me fertility treatments and bringing a child into the already over populated planet with thousands of children waiting to be adopted is necessary. You don't need to have biological children it is a want. Period.

 

[JustPaws]

Yeah, you'll never convince me that people have a need for fertility treatments. Ever. I'd argue that if you aren't conceiving there's a genetic reason for that and forcing your body to conceive when it can't naturally is just perpetuating poor fertility or spreading genetic defects. But that's a completely different rabbit hole I'll avoid going down as it doesn't really pertain to the topic.

no, you said that if you can't have kids you shouldn't and that that was a completely different topic then your discussion on timing. You are acting like i misquoted you when i didn't. You made a blatantly heteronormative statement and I gave you a perfectly good reason IN MY OPINION why some people will always have to have fertility services. Now that may not have been your intention, and Ican see that you are stressed but your original statement was insulting

 

[JustPaws]

And also:

I also think it's important to point out regarding this quote that these children aren't chattel and not everyone is going to be emotionally equipped to handle the emotional consequences of these children's previous trauma. It is irresponsible to assume that any first time parent can handle that "just because they couldn't have children of their own."

 

[SkiOtter]

I also think it's important to point out regarding this quote that these children aren't chattel and not everyone is going to be emotionally equipped to handle the emotional consequences of these children's previous trauma. It is irresponsible to assume that any first time parent can handle that "just because they couldn't have children of their own."

Fully agree. And even if they are, why should they be forced to only have the option to adopt and not allowed to have a biological child if they choose to do so

 

[JustPaws]

I also think it's important to point out regarding this quote that these children aren't chattel and not everyone is going to be emotionally equipped to handle the emotional consequences of these children's previous trauma. It is irresponsible to assume that any first time parent can handle that "just because they couldn't have children of their own."

It also shows your lack of knowledge with the difficulties of even adopting or fostering to adopt. Some states (e.g. IL) require you to "foster-to-adopt" with the full intention and knowledge that reunification is the goal. You are not working to adopt these kids, you are working to get them back to their families if possible and only adopting if every opportunity fails. You fall in love with these kids and then give them back to their biological parents if that's what the court deems is best for them.

 

[DVMDream]

no, you said that if you can't have kids you shouldn't and that that was a completely different topic then your discussion on timing. You are acting like i misquoted you when i didn't. You made a blatantly heteronormative statement and I gave you a perfectly good reason IN MY OPINION why some people will always have to have fertility services. Now that may not have been your intention, and Ican see that you are stressed but your original statement was insulting

See this.....

Please assume in any of my posts that there will always be exceptions to the larger group as a whole. If I'm seriously going to have to list out every damn exception to everything I post, we're going to be here a damn long time.

I don't have time for that. No one does.

I shouldn't have to input exceptions to everything. Just like if I say cosmetic surgery...I mean cosmetic surgery, not reconstructive surgery.

Yes, there will be exceptions to every larger group but I'm not spending time listing them all. I'm a big girl who understands the world isn't 100% perfect and there will be scenarios in which things happen, this should be assumed in really all posts anyone makes.

You guys are like the people that comment on a chat about rape with "but not all men." Yes, we get it. Generalities suck, but they exist for a reason. There will be outliers and exceptions to everything.

Heck, I even guided a friend desperate to have a child to an available fertility grant about a year ago. I understand the pain of wanting something you can't have.

But you still won't change my mind that having children is a want, not a need. And the vast majority undergoing fertility treatments are heterosexual couples with underlying health issues preventing them from getting pregnant. Yes, I get that's a broad generalization but I'm not going to parse out every exception in the world to ever comment I post.

 

[Minnerbelle]

Maybe we should just collectively stop discussing people’s reproductive choices/desires. Nothing good will ever come of it, and it’s likely to be super hurtful. It‘s deeply personal, and one absolutely cannot possibly understand unless theywalks in the other’s shoes.

Being in the mid to late 30s group, it is a minefield when it comes to this stuff with my friends and acquaintances. From those who wish to never have children but are bombarded with comments about it, to those working vet moms who are struggling beyond what anyone can imagine to make it work, to those who have to smile and be happy for their friends’ adorable babies while dying a little inside when they have been fighting infertility or have suffered child loss. It’s just better to not poke that bear. Best to stick with discussing your own experiences only.

 

[vetmedhead]

This thread is giving me anxiety and I don't know why this topic got so contentious. There are obviously strong feelings on all ends and constantly driving the points further and further is just making this thread hurtful to participants and lurkers alike

 

[itsrocky]

I’m just here to say I can’t believe I really spent $6 on the Cats movie on payperview. I knew it’d be bad, but curiousity got the best of me.

 

[battie]

I’m just here to say I can’t believe I really spent $6 on the Cats movie on payperview. I knew it’d be bad, but curiousity got the best of me.

There thinking of remaking the Disney fox robin hood with the same animation. Which makes me sad.

 

[Cephal0pod]

There thinking of remaking the Disney fox robin hood with the same animation. Which makes me sad.

NO

This would be an ABOMINATION

 

[Minnerbelle]

I’m just here to say I can’t believe I really spent $6 on the Cats movie on payperview. I knew it’d be bad, but curiousity got the best of me.

Ahaha never watched it but it bothers me so much that the cats are like Barbie doll size in the preview.

I was considering paying for the downton abbey movie but instead finally made the hubs cave and got Disney+. Rewatched Coco, and man that’s such a beautiful movie.

Also watched steamboat willie and it was so hilarious but jarring to see Mickey Mouse be so cruel to the animals.

 

[Lupin21]

I downloaded a monopoly game to play since I used to love to play with my brother and cousin. I've lost every time and I have a feeling this game came rigged. 😡

 

[deleted676737]

Wrong! If people don’t respect your opinion just because you’re no longer in the field, they are f@&$ing doofuses. You bring a unique and nuanced perspective, so don’t let some wannabe vet ever tell you otherwise.

@Elkhart I think your posts on this topic are incredibly balanced and are giving credit to both the human health and animal health topics. I'm really valuing your contributions, please keep them up!

Hi just know I’m cool with you speaking up at literally anytime. Not only are your opinions incredibly valuable I just genuinely enjoy you chiming I’m at any time. That is all.

If anything, a lot more people should consider your perspective. Outside perspectives only help!

Thanks, all. I was just in kind of a foul mood yesterday and, to use the metaphor, didn't have enough spoons to deal with the stress of thinking I may have come across as minimizing the impact of it all on vet med. I know you all are facing difficulties, too.

 

[Lupin21]

Thanks, all. I was just in kind of a foul mood yesterday and, to use the metaphor, didn't have enough spoons to deal with the stress of thinking I may have come across as minimizing the impact of it all on vet med. I know you all are facing difficulties, too.

Lots o foul moods in this climate. I think the biggest thing is knowing that it's okay to have these feelings, but there has to be some light too. Some parts of a roller coaster are enjoyable. I get all anxious on the slow ride up, but the speedy decent brings a sense of relief. Keep all those little things that give you a happy feeling on hand everyone. Balance out as best you can. Much love during all the crazy and definitely don't let it consume you. I am here for any light needed either in thread or via PM. And I don't like DM, it feels dirty for some reason.

 

[KCgophervet]

or via PM. And I don't like DM, it feels dirty for some reason.

OMG yes this. It has bothered me for years.

 

[allygator13]

Ahaha never watched it but it bothers me so much that the cats are like Barbie doll size in the preview.

I was considering paying for the downton abbey movie but instead finally made the hubs cave and got Disney+. Rewatched Coco, and man that’s such a beautiful movie.

Also watched steamboat willie and it was so hilarious but jarring to see Mickey Mouse be so cruel to the animals.

I looooove Coco! 😍 I watched Onward when it first came to Disney+ a few weeks ago and it is definitely a close second to Coco!

 

[grebes4lyfe]

Re: foul moods

I had a full on breakdown yesterday bc a friend left a groupme and I was convinced that everyone hates me and I’m not gonna have any friends when this is done. Obviously I’m thriving rn. I told my friend about my meltdown and she replied that her boyfriend told her to relax and she burst into tears. It’s so much harder than I ever thought it would be and I’m STRUGGLINGGGGG but it makes it a little more bearable to know that I’m not alone in feeling like total ****e.

 

[Lupin21]

Re: foul moods

I had a full on breakdown yesterday bc a friend left a groupme and I was convinced that everyone hates me and I’m not gonna have any friends when this is done. Obviously I’m thriving rn. I told my friend about my meltdown and she replied that her boyfriend told her to relax and she burst into tears. It’s so much harder than I ever thought it would be and I’m STRUGGLINGGGGG but it makes it a little more bearable to know that I’m not alone in feeling like total ****e.

My work has been a minefield. Like here, I do my best to be the light. I am so very lucky that my life is simple for the most part and I have already surrounded myself with things that bring me peace, so I can give as much as I can to others. I am even more thankful that my foulness is expressed on a daily rant to my mother to get it out so in public, I am still a rock. lol

 

[Minnerbelle]

Re: foul moods

I had a full on breakdown yesterday bc a friend left a groupme and I was convinced that everyone hates me and I’m not gonna have any friends when this is done. Obviously I’m thriving rn. I told my friend about my meltdown and she replied that her boyfriend told her to relax and she burst into tears. It’s so much harder than I ever thought it would be and I’m STRUGGLINGGGGG but it makes it a little more bearable to know that I’m not alone in feeling like total ****e.

My poor husband. He gets the brunt of it from me. At least twice a day, “Are you f@&$ing kidding me!?” gets blurted out for minor offenses. Thankfully he’s a good sport.

 

[ziggyandjazzy]

Re: foul moods

I had a full on breakdown yesterday bc a friend left a groupme and I was convinced that everyone hates me and I’m not gonna have any friends when this is done. Obviously I’m thriving rn. I told my friend about my meltdown and she replied that her boyfriend told her to relax and she burst into tears. It’s so much harder than I ever thought it would be and I’m STRUGGLINGGGGG but it makes it a little more bearable to know that I’m not alone in feeling like total ****e.

Yeppp I feel this. I was 100% crying yesterday trying to learn surgical knots that the profs told us we had to learn on our own less than 24 hours before a lab that was supposed to teach us how to do them. We were only given ****ty videos of some woman doing it super fast and her hands covering up the ****ing knot while she’s doing them so you can’t learn ****. Ugh I was already so nervous about surgery and I just hate it. These things are hard enough to learn in class, let alone from crappy resources alone with no help 🙁

 

[Lupin21]

Yeppp I feel this. I was 100% crying yesterday trying to learn surgical knots that the profs told us we had to learn on our own less than 24 hours before a lab that was supposed to teach us how to do them. We were only given ****ty videos of some woman doing it super fast and her hands covering up the ****ing knot while she’s doing them so you can’t learn ****. Ugh I was already so nervous about surgery and I just hate it. These things are hard enough to learn in class, let alone from crappy resources alone with no help 🙁

There are usually a couple different ways to approach the same knot, so youtube is invaluable here as they cross over with hooman med. Highly recommend searching for videos. 🙂

 

[SARdoghandler]

Yeppp I feel this. I was 100% crying yesterday trying to learn surgical knots that the profs told us we had to learn on our own less than 24 hours before a lab that was supposed to teach us how to do them. We were only given ****ty videos of some woman doing it super fast and her hands covering up the ****ing knot while she’s doing them so you can’t learn ****. Ugh I was already so nervous about surgery and I just hate it. These things are hard enough to learn in class, let alone from crappy resources alone with no help 🙁

If you need extra help, I'm sure I or any of the other advanced students or vets would be more than happy to do a video chat with you to try and trouble shoot! Or recommend good YouTube videos etc! I remember learning surgical knots for the first time and it was stressful enough in person

 

[Cephal0pod]

Yeppp I feel this. I was 100% crying yesterday trying to learn surgical knots that the profs told us we had to learn on our own less than 24 hours before a lab that was supposed to teach us how to do them. We were only given ****ty videos of some woman doing it super fast and her hands covering up the ****ing knot while she’s doing them so you can’t learn ****. Ugh I was already so nervous about surgery and I just hate it. These things are hard enough to learn in class, let alone from crappy resources alone with no help 🙁

Yo I was on the brink of tears in our first labs about how to do these and that was in the absence of a pandemic. Totally okay, and you are totally gonna get these and nail them and be a bomb surgeon with mad skills.

I think it was Penn (either PennVet or Penn human med) who had a ton of great YouTube videos for various suture knots and patterns that really helped me out. I relied on them heavily.

 

[supershorty]

Yeppp I feel this. I was 100% crying yesterday trying to learn surgical knots that the profs told us we had to learn on our own less than 24 hours before a lab that was supposed to teach us how to do them. We were only given ****ty videos of some woman doing it super fast and her hands covering up the ****ing knot while she’s doing them so you can’t learn ****. Ugh I was already so nervous about surgery and I just hate it. These things are hard enough to learn in class, let alone from crappy resources alone with no help 🙁

I'm a clinical skills tutor at UMN planning to pursue surgery and would be more than happy to help you out over Google Hangout or Zoom sometime if you'd like 🙂

Second the recommendation for Penn's YouTube videos, too!

 

[vetmedhead]

There are usually a couple different ways to approach the same knot, so youtube is invaluable here as they cross over with hooman med. Highly recommend searching for videos. 🙂

Yeah, youtube has really sorted my ish for pretty much every knot I know how to tie.

For what it's worth @ziggyandjazzy I legitimately don't know a single person who felt good about tying knots for suturing the first time they did it. Practice will get you there but it sucks, especially when you're first learning. And there may always be knots and patterns that just aren't your friend. I can rock out strangle knots and intradermals like nobody's business, but god help us all if I need to remember how to do something that is supposed to be simple like burying an effing knot

 

[ziggyandjazzy]

Thanks for the support and advice everyone! I really appreciate it and this made my morning. I'm definitely going to check out some of those resources and reach out if I need more help. Sometimes I lose sight of why I continue to be on this site, but it's moments like these that remind me

 

[KCgophervet]

Yeah, youtube has really sorted my ish for pretty much every knot I know how to tie.

For what it's worth @ziggyandjazzy I legitimately don't know a single person who felt good about tying knots for suturing the first time they did it. Practice will get you there but it sucks, especially when you're first learning. And there may always be knots and patterns that just aren't your friend. I can rock out strangle knots and intradermals like nobody's business, but god help us all if I need to remember how to do something that is supposed to be simple like burying an effing knot

As the surgeon I'm currently working with likes to say, nothing a little gluture won't fix. (I, too, have lots of trouble getting those knots to go in the hole I made so nicely for them)

 

[KCgophervet]

Thanks for the support and advice everyone! I really appreciate it and this made my morning. I'm definitely going to check out some of those resources and reach out if I need more help. Sometimes I lose sight of why I continue to be on this site, but it's moments like these that remind me

Also I tended to find videos very confusing because they always seem to go too fast or somehow the important parts happen while they're covering stuff up with their hands. I used to find drawn diagrams or pictures with arrows much more helpful. You just have to figure out what makes sense for you and find resources to learn via your preferred method. Also practicing the hand motions with shoelaces to start so you can see what the knot is supposed to look like and do and then move on to suture.

 

[vetmedhead]

Also I tended to find videos very confusing because they always seem to go too fast or somehow the important parts happen while they're covering stuff up with their hands. I used to find drawn diagrams or pictures with arrows much more helpful. You just have to figure out what makes sense for you and find resources to learn via your preferred method. Also practicing the hand motions with shoelaces to start so you can see what the knot is supposed to look like and do and then move on to suture.

I mostly agree that the diagrams are helpful for pretty much every knot and pattern except the Aberdeen knot, which in my surgery notes

we functionally indistinguishable from this for me:

 

[mmmdreamerz]

I mostly agree that the diagrams are helpful for pretty much every knot and pattern except the Aberdeen knot, which in my surgery notes

View attachment 302502
we functionally indistinguishable from this for me:

That’s hilarious.

And I know not your point but I luffs Aberdeen knotsss

 

[vetmedhead]

That’s hilarious.

And I know not your point but I luffs Aberdeen knotsss

They're fun all around. My favorite tidbit about them is from an article looking at the ideal number of throws for knot security in Aberdeen knots:

"The Aberdeen knot became so named when Sir James Learmonth (Professor of Surgery at Aberdeen University from 1932–1938) noted that it used less thread than the contemporary surgeon's knot, and hence must have been invented by a Scot. " 🤣

(for the curious among you, their conclusion was three throws was all you needed for good knot security)

 

[vetmedhead]

But yes, aberdeens are one where the diagram was incomprehensible to me, but I watched one video of them being done and went "Well that's bull****, I can do that!!!"

 

[mmmdreamerz]

They're fun all around. My favorite tidbit about them is from an article looking at the ideal number of throws for knot security in Aberdeen knots:

"The Aberdeen knot became so named when Sir James Learmonth (Professor of Surgery at Aberdeen University from 1932–1938) noted that it used less thread than the contemporary surgeon's knot, and hence must have been invented by a Scot. " 🤣

(for the curious among you, their conclusion was three throws was all you needed for good knot security)

Aberdeen's are apparently 1/5 the size of the typical 4 throws buried square knot and they only weaken monofilament suture by 15% instead of 40%.

Plus they're fun🙂

 

[deleted498041]

If you need extra help, I'm sure I or any of the other advanced students or vets would be more than happy to do a video chat with you to try and trouble shoot! Or recommend good YouTube videos etc! I remember learning surgical knots for the first time and it was stressful enough in person

Just chiming in to say that I'd be happy to help if needed, just shoot me a message. I'm a surgery resident, so knot tying is right up my alley 🙂

 

[twelvetigers]

Make a loop that pokes through your existing loop. Then make another loop that goes through that. Then go through the final loop.

I don’t remember learning that one tho.

I made very pretty intradermals. I don’t know about anything else (and it doesn’t matter for what I do now)! I can only be thankful that I was generally okay at venipuncture. And words. Those are two important things.

I think I would prefer class at home (times a million) but labs and 4th year - I hope this works out okay for y’all and things can get back to normal before fall...

 

[itsrocky]

I mostly agree that the diagrams are helpful for pretty much every knot and pattern except the Aberdeen knot, which in my surgery notes

View attachment 302502
we functionally indistinguishable from this for me:

Everyone I’ve ever seen do an Aberdeen makes it look so easy. It’s hard to me though 🙈

 

[PippyPony]

If anyone knits or crochets... an Aberdeen knot is literally the same as a basic chain cast-on.

 

[PippyPony]

(clarification: it's the same as you extend the knot, but after 3 throws, you draw the working strand through the last loop you've made & pull it tight.)

 

[altadama]

Just got an e-mail from a professor for the not vet-school class I'm taking this semester warning me to "try and not be offended by the speaker tomorrow" because basically he isn't going to like me or my perspective and he's going to be blunt. The speaker is someone who hates everything veterinary, thinks domestic animal species should all be allowed to go extinct, keeping pets is the same as slavery, animal agriculture is torture, and anyone involved in research is an evil monster. I'm a lab animal focused veterinary student. Aside from that, my honeymoon/wedding/everything I was looking forward to this Summer is cancelled, the wedding hall is fighting me that we should pay them a huge cancellation fee even though the event literally can't happen because of social distancing, my fiancé has been furloughed and all our hopes of moving in together/saving for a house are on hold, a cousin on my mom's side passed away from COVID, the nursing home my grandmother is at is suspicious she may have it/ordered chest x-rays for her, and my grades have been tanking a bit because I just CANNOT focus on school. I don't have any extra mental energy to deal with a class where its basically going to be 2 hours detailing why I'm a horrible person/everything about my future profession is the worst thing ever and that is apparently going to be so insulting I need a personalized warning. I'm going to have an aneurysm.

 

[sheltermed]

The speaker is someone who hates everything veterinary, thinks domestic animal species should all be allowed to go extinct, keeping pets is the same as slavery, animal agriculture is torture, and anyone involved in research is an evil monster.

what sort of class hosts this type of speaker? what is the speaker's claim to fame?

 

[Lupin21]

Just got an e-mail from a professor for the not vet-school class I'm taking this semester warning me to "try and not be offended by the speaker tomorrow" because basically he isn't going to like me or my perspective and he's going to be blunt. The speaker is someone who hates everything veterinary, thinks domestic animal species should all be allowed to go extinct, keeping pets is the same as slavery, animal agriculture is torture, and anyone involved in research is an evil monster. I'm a lab animal focused veterinary student. Aside from that, my honeymoon/wedding/everything I was looking forward to this Summer is cancelled, the wedding hall is fighting me that we should pay them a huge cancellation fee even though the event literally can't happen because of social distancing, my fiancé has been furloughed and all our hopes of moving in together/saving for a house are on hold, a cousin on my mom's side passed away from COVID, the nursing home my grandmother is at is suspicious she may have it/ordered chest x-rays for her, and my grades have been tanking a bit because I just CANNOT focus on school. I don't have any extra mental energy to deal with a class where its basically going to be 2 hours detailing why I'm a horrible person/everything about my future profession is the worst thing ever and that is apparently going to be so insulting I need a personalized warning. I'm going to have an aneurysm.

Then do you actually need to listen to this lecture? For real, one of those things that for mental health, this one lecture won’t make or break you in the grand scheme of things.

 

[altadama]

Then do you actually need to listen to this lecture? For real, one of those things that for mental health, this one lecture won’t make or break you in the grand scheme of things.

Its a small class, seminar style thing so she specified have to log into zoom with the video on and attendance/class participation counts for our grade. 🙁

what sort of class hosts this type of speaker? what is the speaker's claim to fame?

Its an animal law class. I foolishly thought would be interesting, helpful, and maybe help me understand some of the regulatory side of veterinary medicine...but I was very, very wrong and by the time I saw the syllabus/realized it was essentially animal rights propaganda it was too late to drop it.

 

[sheltermed]

log into zoom with the video on and attendance/class participation counts for our grade

I'd just log in to show you're there and mute it, have other tabs open to pretend you're on your computer listening

eta: or just miss this one lecture in particular as long as it doesn't make or break your grade

 

[Lupin21]

Yeah, I’ve got skipped points littered in my scholarly past as I valued my sanity more than some points. Honestly, if the prof texted you, it shouldn’t come as a surprise. Heh

 

[altadama]

Yeah, I’ve got skipped points littered in my scholarly past as I valued my sanity more than some points. Honestly, if the prof texted you, it shouldn’t come as a surprise. Heh

I may just log in, mute it, and hope they don't try to interact with me at all. I already missed a lecture because she had the president of the American Anti-Vivisection Society come in to teach everyone about the animal welfare act/animal research...and that lecture fell over the vet school spring break so I decided I couldn't stomach driving back to school over break to listen to that disaster of a lecture, and I had missed 2 lectures at the start because I registered for the course right at the end of the add/drop period. I think missing another one might push me into the not passing category for attendance. 🙁

 

[Lupin21]

I may just log in, mute it, and hope they don't try to interact with me at all. I already missed a lecture because she had the president of the American Anti-Vivisection Society come in to teach everyone about the animal welfare act/animal research...and that lecture fell over the vet school spring break so I decided I couldn't stomach driving back to school over break to listen to that disaster of a lecture, and I had missed 2 lectures at the start because I registered for the course right at the end of the add/drop period. I think missing another one might push me into the not passing category for attendance. 🙁

Sounds good to me, you can always say your mic/sound doesn’t seem to be working.

 

[vetmedhead]

Sounds good to me, you can always say your mic/sound doesn’t seem to be working.

Yeah, I'd show up long enough to be counted and then feign wifi issues lol