RANT HERE thread

[JaynaAli]

---

Members don't see this ad.

This is what Michigan State has recommended for those who haven’t borrowed yet. I think $500 is reasonable and then pay it off the following semester

Honestly, I’d probably recommend just keeping the loan through the adjustment period just to be sure the loan is active and you’re always considered an existing borrower. The loan servicers are notorious for making mistakes. I’d keep things simple and just keep the loan so you can point to it and be like “see, I have one” and they can’t try any funny business. If you pay it off would they try to consider you a new borrower again? I’d assume no, but they do dumb things. Interest on $500 would be pretty minimal (like $5/mo when I just put it in a calculator) and might be worth the minimal investment to help you avoid headaches later on.

 

[indysadventures]

I hate to be that person, but as I’m seeing this discussion happen more, maybe we can try our best to call it a gradPLUS “grace period” versus “grandfathering in”?? I see MSU used another term, “legacy,” that can sometimes be substituted but they also used grandfather. 🙃

I know that the latter term has its origins in Jim Crow voting laws - the grandfather clause was used to deny black people the right to vote in many states after the civil war, as you needed a grandfather who could vote before the war in order to vote. Many activists have politely requested that white people stop using it, with its usage at best insensitive in a microaggressive kinda way, akin to “Eenie meanie…” and “gypped.” I know it can feel silly to focus on linguistics in times like this, but I think change derives from respect even in small instances, and can begin with us. And by being willing to make tiny changes to show respect, we can impact our behavior and our lives, at least.

As a white person, I try to avoid this term, especially in the context of folks getting around disastrous new government policies, as it might just be upsetting in a way we do not intend and add to further trauma without us even noticing.

 

[JaynaAli]

I hate to be that person, but as I’m seeing this discussion happen more, maybe we can try our best to call it a gradPLUS “grace period” versus “grandfathering in”?? I see MSU used another term, “legacy,” that can sometimes be substituted but they also used grandfather. 🙃

I know that the latter term has its origins in Jim Crow voting laws - the grandfather clause was used to deny black people the right to vote in many states after the civil war, as you needed a grandfather who could vote before the war in order to vote. Many activists have politely requested that white people stop using it, with its usage at best insensitive in a microaggressive kinda way, akin to “Eenie meanie…” and “gypped.” I know it can feel silly to focus on linguistics in times like this, but I think change derives from respect even in small instances, and can begin with us. And by being willing to make tiny changes to show respect, we can impact our behavior and our lives, at least.

As a white person, I try to avoid this term, especially in the context of folks getting around disastrous new government policies, as it might just be upsetting in a way we do not intend and add to further trauma without us even noticing.

You raise an excellent point, and I’ve gone and edited my wording to “adjustment period” and will do so moving forward. We already use “grace period” in regards to student loans for the 6 months no payments after graduation…I think people can determine which we mean from context so calling it a grace period is fine, but I hesitate to use a term we already use without clarifying.

 

[indysadventures]

You raise an excellent point, and I’ve gone and edited my wording to “adjustment period” and will do so moving forward. We already use “grace period” in regards to student loans for the 6 months no payments after graduation…I think people can determine which we mean from context so calling it a grace period is fine, but I hesitate to use a term we already use without clarifying.

This is a good middle ground! I think “legacy period” too could work, which I know has been a suggestion by activists as an alternate. But I like yours, too!

 

[fauna]

brought my cat in to work today just as a final visit, bloodwork, vaccines, etc. before I am off to school (and lose my work discounts lol) and my doctor found a grade III heart murmur. the IM team (we don’t have cardio) is going to try and work her in for an echo but I am honestly just so anxious about it. my doctor keeps telling me it could be nothing serious but ughhh just waiting for this echo is torture, she’s my baby. someone reassure me!

 

[honeypot999]

communication problem solved!

 

[fauna]

my cat is okay!! nothing that should affect the function of her heart, something to check in on in 6-12 months, but no meds, no big scary news. just a weird congenital thing probably!

 

[fauna]

Ok wow they are still charging me $300 for it and thats with a discount. Kind of thought they were doing me a solid. Naive of me.

 

[JaynaAli]

@fauna Sorry about the unexpectedly high cost but glad she’s okay!

 

[katiemcat]

Ok wow they are still charging me $300 for it and thats with a discount. Kind of thought they were doing me a solid. Naive of me.

Oof… on the bright side a lot of vet schools seem to give their students super cheap echos when it’s time for her recheck!

In my ultrasound class we also had students volunteer their pets for free echos (the cardiologist did the final one.)

 

[fauna]

Oof… on the bright side a lot of vet schools seem to give their students super cheap echos when it’s time for her recheck!

In my ultrasound class we also had students volunteer their pets for free echos (the cardiologist did the final one.)

She will be first in line! It makes her a good learning case lol. I also just have to say as a side note I am so impressed with what a good patient she was all day. She has .. cattitude.. at home so I was shocked we got through the echo, bloodwork, and vaccines with no problems. I guess she was too scared to really do anything.

 

[katiemcat]

I’ve unlocked the acid reflux every time I eat stage of pregnancy.

 

[pp9]

I’ve unlocked the acid reflux every time I eat stage of pregnancy.

You are not making me look forward to this...I have acid reflux all the time as it is

 

[vampyrica]

“ just go to a state school!!” ITS NOT THAT SIMPLE

“your degree isnt more than $200k, you’ll be fine” THATS NOT TRUE

“vet care is expensive anyway, its good that you wont be able to go and maybe then i can afford to take my pet to the vet” THEY ARE NOT MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE, ALSO YOUR VET CARE COST WILL INCREASE

“i’m done paying for your school!” YOU NEVER PAID FOR MY SCHOOLING IM LITERALLY PAYING MY LOANS BACK

“just take out private loans. you will be fine stop crying on tiktok” THE INTEREST RATE IS INSANE. AS IF THE DEBT COMING OUT OF SCHOOL ISNT BAD ENOUGH, WITH A COMBO OF PUBLIC AND PRIVATE YOURE EASILY LOOKING AT HALF A MILLION.

“schools will be forced to lower tuition!!!” ALSO NOT TRUE. THEY CAN CHARGE WHATEVER THEY WANT NOW BECAUSE THEY KNOW PEOPLE WILL TAKE OUT PRIVATE LOANS TO CHASE THEIR DREAMS.

“i never go to the doctor or take my pets to the vet. down with big healthcare” THATS NOT ON TOPIC AT ALL BUT THANK YOU FOR SHARING???

i’m tired of talking to brick walls.

 

[katiemcat]

You are not making me look forward to this...I have acid reflux all the time as it is

Trying to avoid very acidic things.. which is painful bc I love citrus, red sauce, and garlic…… Tums are my best friend.

 

[pp9]

Trying to avoid very acidic things.. which is painful bc I love citrus, red sauce, and garlic…… Tums are my best friend.

Don't forget chocolate...that often gets me 😒

 

[SkiOtter]

Tums are my best friend.

Highly recommend the “chewy delights” soft chews. They feel more like the ****ty bubblegum of your childhood and not nearly as chalky as regular tums. Walgreens and Walmart def both sell them as their store brand version as well which is Obv cheaper than brand name tums.

 

[katiemcat]

Highly recommend the “chewy delights” soft chews. They feel more like the ****ty bubblegum of your childhood and not nearly as chalky as regular tums. Walgreens and Walmart def both sell them as their store brand version as well which is Obv cheaper than brand name tums.

Ordering now

 

[_rae_]

Packing SUCKS and my cats agree and they're being clingy and whiny and acting out and I know it's just because they're geeked out by the moving and they were abandoned in an apartment as babies and I have no idea if I'm anthropomorphizing them too much or if they genuinely have apartment trauma but it's annoying and frustrating even though I know it's completely out of their control and they're not doing it on purpose.

Phew, run on sentence over.

 

[Shiloh47]

“ just go to a state school!!” ITS NOT THAT SIMPLE

“your degree isnt more than $200k, you’ll be fine” THATS NOT TRUE

“vet care is expensive anyway, its good that you wont be able to go and maybe then i can afford to take my pet to the vet” THEY ARE NOT MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE, ALSO YOUR VET CARE COST WILL INCREASE

“i’m done paying for your school!” YOU NEVER PAID FOR MY SCHOOLING IM LITERALLY PAYING MY LOANS BACK

“just take out private loans. you will be fine stop crying on tiktok” THE INTEREST RATE IS INSANE. AS IF THE DEBT COMING OUT OF SCHOOL ISNT BAD ENOUGH, WITH A COMBO OF PUBLIC AND PRIVATE YOURE EASILY LOOKING AT HALF A MILLION.

“schools will be forced to lower tuition!!!” ALSO NOT TRUE. THEY CAN CHARGE WHATEVER THEY WANT NOW BECAUSE THEY KNOW PEOPLE WILL TAKE OUT PRIVATE LOANS TO CHASE THEIR DREAMS.

“i never go to the doctor or take my pets to the vet. down with big healthcare” THATS NOT ON TOPIC AT ALL BUT THANK YOU FOR SHARING???

i’m tired of talking to brick walls.

3 & 4 literally need an IQ test. Also on the topic of 4 I remember overhearing some boy mom talking about how her son’s part time mechanic job was paying for “useless degrees”as if he’s the only person in the world paying taxes out of his paycheck, and like personally taking out the loans of every college student on the planet. The Fox News propaganda is wild these days.

 

[DVM882029]

Ok wow they are still charging me $300 for it and thats with a discount. Kind of thought they were doing me a solid. Naive of me.

That's a bargain, honestly... Cost of time, interpretation, supplies, resources. Specialist fees alone can be upwards of $200. They DID do you a solid. /voice of dissent.

 

[_rae_]

Both things can be true. My cat’s cardiologist always charged us a recheck limited echo but did a full with interpretation. Even though I was aware they were doing me a massive solid, it still felt expensive for me at the time.

 

[DVM882029]

Both things can be true. My cat’s cardiologist always charged us a recheck limited echo but did a full with interpretation. Even though I was aware they were doing me a massive solid, it still felt expensive for me at the time.

Expensive is relative, sure, and many things were expensive for me even at $50, $100 (month-by-month HWP was clutch). BUT. Taking a massive discount from a doctor/specialist/whatever is still a solid IMO, even if it's still a big cost to the client, especially with the way some corporations audit.

 

[DVMDream]

Yeah, I am going to have an unpopular opinion but veterinary medicine is pricing itself out of business. When I am quoting over $10k for surgery for people for their pets, something is not ok.

Yes, veterinarians and veterinary staff deserve good pay, benefits, etc and medicine is pricey, but I know what the costs are behind the curtain and $10k for a simple foreign body is definitely surpassing the "medicine is expensive" line over into the corporate greed category.

 

[supershorty]

and $10k for a simple foreign body

Where are you that this is the quote for a foreign body?? Holy hell.

At my hospital, we quote 4-6, but the vast majority of them leave for under that (barring complications), and even we're expensive...

 

[supershorty]

We estimate 8-10 for a septic abdomen.

 

[_rae_]

Yeah, FBO w/ hospitalization is like $4-$7k and we’re one of the most expensive in the are. Even back in Boston my cat’s FBO w/ endoscopy was $6k.

 

[DVMDream]

Just my cat's slightly complicated UTI cost me over $3k WITH a professional discount.

 

[indysadventures]

Where are you that this is the quote for a foreign body?? Holy hell.

At my hospital, we quote 4-6, but the vast majority of them leave for under that (barring complications), and even we're expensive...

At the specialty center I was at in Jersey, this could easily happen. Foreign bodies would normally be quoted somewhere in the 8-10 and our quotes rarely ended up being less. It was a real problem though and the vets were always telling corporate that it wasn’t sustainable. I worked there 7 months and in oncology, we’d seen two price increases that the doctor hadn’t really been warned about. All this while rolling out a new policy where we weren’t allowed to give paw prints after euthanasia anymore, it was “ taking up too much of our time.” (We ignored it but I got in trouble.)

 

[Trilt]

We're the "cheap" specialty ER locally and I usually quote $4-6k for FBs. Usually on the high end if the boarded surgeons cut or it's an r&a, lower end (or even more around 3-3.5k if ER cuts, or it's a gastrotomy).

 

[battie]

Where are you that this is the quote for a foreign body?? Holy hell.

At my hospital, we quote 4-6, but the vast majority of them leave for under that (barring complications), and even we're expensive...

Denver.

Our hospitals without boarded surgeons is 6-10k for a 40kg pittie. A cat FBO would be 4-6k. This is without RnA.

I agree strongly it's corporate greed. It's because 75% of er/specialty is owned by PE or VC corps and the C-suite folks and their direct underlings are paid as a percentage of the year over year growth.

BP sent out an email a month or so ago they're reducing costs by 20-30%. That can make a huge difference in my area. I think the corps owned by PE and VC are going to have a huge wake up call this year.

 

[Trilt]

All this while rolling out a new policy where we weren’t allowed to give paw prints after euthanasia anymore, it was “ taking up too much of our time.” (We ignored it but I got in trouble.)

Ahaha people tried to subtley stop this ("please stop doing them on sympathy cards, they're expensive" while giving no other options) at my work and after asking about it and getting no answer, I just bought cardstock and the techs know there's a stash at my desk.

I'm pretty damn easy going, but some things I'll dig my heels in about - and I'm ****ing hard to knock over.

 

[battie]

If a paw print is too expensive, you're running your business incorrectly. 😡

 

[RespectTheChemistry]

I am having a devastatingly bad day. I tend towards delayed emotional responses and start crying at really random times.

I was in the library in a study room when Blink-182's One More Time came onto my YouTube mix and started to cry a little. I started sobbing when I noticed the time and realized I had no place else to go and had no choice but to come home when the library closed in an hour. They could hear me at the circulation desk clear on the other side of the library. I just couldn't stop.

The nice librarian came and brought me some Kleenex and a garbage can. She told me I could use all the Kleenex I wanted and that she was there if I needed to talk. Even just the small bit of empathy got me to stop. The world is an ugly place, but also a beautiful place.

 

[DVMDream]

Where are you that this is the quote for a foreign body?? Holy hell.

Technically, I do live in hell, the deserts of AZ.

 

[Shiloh47]

Ahaha people tried to subtley stop this ("please stop doing them on sympathy cards, they're expensive" while giving no other options) at my work and after asking about it and getting no answer, I just bought cardstock and the techs know there's a stash at my desk.

I'm pretty damn easy going, but some things I'll dig my heels in about - and I'm ****ing hard to knock over.

I remember having to put a young goat down as a teenager due to some brain infection we’d been back and forth hospitalizing on but eventually it just wasn’t going to be overcome. I remember the vet crying with me at the euthanasia and then asking if I wanted her hoof imprint 😭 I still have it & those things mean so much

 

[vampyrica]

I worked both at a Private ER (like one of the few in the area that isnt corporate, they actually were all doctors that came together to LEAVE corporate, its fantastic but anyway), and both at a shelter with low cost surgery and wellness clinic. The amount of people I would refer from the ER to the shelter for FBO was easily in the hundreds. The shelter was ~$700, sometimes lower and possibly free through the donations we received, and the ER was ~$6k average. Obviously, the resources you will receive is different but the standard of care is still high. I'm not sure what the point of me sharing this was, maybe to throw in that there are places and resources available (in some areas) to help combat the high cost of corporations?

On a different question, could you in theory if you have your own clinic, do these surgeries yourself? I feel like more recently I have seen these types of surgeries referred to the ER hospitals which have more resources, versus them being in-house at a local independent vet. Is there a reason why people don't do it? Genuinely curious about this!

 

[JaynaAli]

Is there a reason why people don't do it? Genuinely curious about this!

Time. I’d say this is probably the biggest one. Working in an emergent surgery means other scheduled procedures or appointments get bumped and scheduled need rearranged (and thus people get mad) or you and staff have to stay late, which also isn’t fair when people have lives outside of vet med. I know staying late happens a lot but it shouldn’t be the norm, imo. Leaving spaces open in a schedule for a potential emergency appt/procedure could make logical sense but doesn’t necessarily make financial sense, because if it isn’t filled then you just lose income for an appt slot that could have been filled by a wellness or other sick appointment. ERs are (usually) better staffed and prepared for emergent procedures.

Appropriate staffing. Not everyone has the right support staff for adequate intraop and post-operate care, especially if overnight observation and care is required. Sometimes it’s simpler to transfer to er and let them do it their preferred way than handle an immediate post-op patient transfer.

Liability. If something unexpected goes wrong and you didn’t at least offer referral to a board certified surgeon or other specialty care, you might get dinged in a board complaint or liability suit. So you offer the referral and see what the clients want to do.

 

[WildZoo]

I worked both at a Private ER (like one of the few in the area that isnt corporate, they actually were all doctors that came together to LEAVE corporate, its fantastic but anyway), and both at a shelter with low cost surgery and wellness clinic. The amount of people I would refer from the ER to the shelter for FBO was easily in the hundreds. The shelter was ~$700, sometimes lower and possibly free through the donations we received, and the ER was ~$6k average. Obviously, the resources you will receive is different but the standard of care is still high. I'm not sure what the point of me sharing this was, maybe to throw in that there are places and resources available (in some areas) to help combat the high cost of corporations?

On a different question, could you in theory if you have your own clinic, do these surgeries yourself? I feel like more recently I have seen these types of surgeries referred to the ER hospitals which have more resources, versus them being in-house at a local independent vet. Is there a reason why people don't do it? Genuinely curious about this!

There are still plenty of GPs that cut foreign bodies and such, especially in areas where ER is less accessible. But I second everything Jayna said.

 

[vampyrica]

Liability. If something unexpected goes wrong and you didn’t at least offer referral to a board certified surgeon or other specialty care, you might get dinged in a board complaint or liability suit. So you offer the referral and see what the clients want to do.

This! This was another question I had. I believe there was a discussion previously (maybe in this thread or another) about surgery and some vets love it and some vets are not drawn to it. To perform a surgery like an FBO, do you HAVE to be board certified or is it just highly recommended for liability?

Again, my background is 80% shelter and low cost care. Our veterinarians are not board certified and we performed FBO's, amputations, PU's, cystotomy's, FHO and some other ones if the doctors feel confident they can perform it.

 

[WildZoo]

This! This was another question I had. I believe there was a discussion previously (maybe in this thread or another) about surgery and some vets love it and some vets are not drawn to it. To perform a surgery like an FBO, do you HAVE to be board certified or is it just highly recommended for liability?

Again, my background is 80% shelter and low cost care. Our veterinarians are not board certified and we performed FBO's, amputations, PU's, cystotomy's, FHO and some other ones if the doctors feel confident they can perform it.

As far as I am aware there are technically no procedures that require board certification to perform in vet med. Of course if you got a complaint and can't prove you have adequate training that would be a problem. But any vet can in theory do the procedures you listed.

 

[vampyrica]

As far as I am aware there are technically no procedures that require board certification to perform in vet med. Of course if you got a complaint and can't prove you have adequate training that would be a problem. But any vet can in theory do the procedures you listed.

Thanks Dubz <3

 

[DVMDream]

This! This was another question I had. I believe there was a discussion previously (maybe in this thread or another) about surgery and some vets love it and some vets are not drawn to it. To perform a surgery like an FBO, do you HAVE to be board certified or is it just highly recommended for liability?

Again, my background is 80% shelter and low cost care. Our veterinarians are not board certified and we performed FBO's, amputations, PU's, cystotomy's, FHO and some other ones if the doctors feel confident they can perform it.

You don't have to be board certified to perform most of the surgeries you mentioned. Should you discuss and refer to a boarded surgeon if one is available? Probably, but the surgery doesn't have to be done by a board certified surgeon.

Having said that, there are certain surgeries/procedures that you probably should not be attempting as a non-boarded surgeon. The thing is learning and understanding what those are. Say, for example, removing a gallbladder, should probably be done by a boarded surgeon.

Cataract surgery- generally should be done by a boarded ophthalmologist.

This is part of what veterinary school will teach you as well.

 

[JaynaAli]

There are still plenty of GPs that cut foreign bodies and such, especially in areas where ER is less accessible. But I second everything Jayna said.

There’s no official laws that anyone has to be board certified to do any specific procedures, but there are also things that people would consider pretty reckless for the average Joe to try without some additional education or at minimum client education about the lack of experience. But also, sometimes the alternatives are trying vs euthanasia, which I think came up in a recent thread here somewhere too. I am in a very rural area and the GPs in my area do procedures vets in other areas would rarely even consider, just because referral is so expensive and 2-3+ hours away. Like my friend did a thoracotomy and diaphragmatic hernia repair about 6 months post grad…because it was she tried or the dog died. Dog lived. Had it died, the owner could have tried to sue. Would a lawsuit have been successful? Hard to say and depends on documentation and your state board and what it considers standard of care. It’s hard to know what to do sometimes.

You hope a board or judge is reasonable and understands limitations put upon you. But these types of things are where you offer the best and then adjust and do the best you’re allowed to within a specific set of circumstances.

 

[MixedAnimals77]

As everyone else said always offer referral. That being said I live in bfe and low col. However I routinely do amps, FB, cystotomy, pu's, cherry eyes, etc, and my boss does a ton of orthopedics. FB probably get out of our hospital for about 2k. Nearest ER is 3hrs away. I will cut after hours when I'm solo and charge our ER fee. We have another vet now so it's easier to fit in ER surgeries.

Things to never touch surgically- IVDDs, brain, cataracts, and intrathoracic *unless it's a traumatic diaphraghmatic hernia* (then special discussions had because that's alot on my staff to manage). Otherwise I probably wouldn't touch things like nephrectomy or adrenal tumors and a smattering of other stuff but I do ALOT of not standard sx procedures.

 

[DVMDream]

I just want to mention how sad I am about the flooding in Texas and the girls camp that was so significantly affected. Those poor girls, I can't imagine being asleep and then being washed away by a completely unexpected flood.

Such a devastating event. So much sadness. The camp owner/director tried to drive through the waters to save them and lost his life as well.

I just can't imagine how terribly this is affecting everyone--- the friends, families, camp counselors, rescue workers, etc.

 

[SkiOtter]

Cataract surgery- generally should be done by a boarded ophthalmologist.

Lol a client asked if we did this surgery and I was like “absolutely not that is very much a specialist surgery”

Things to never touch surgically- IVDDs

the amount of times people (parents friends mostly) have asked me if I did my dogs 2 hemilams. ABSOLUTELY NOT.

 

[SkiOtter]

I just want to mention how sad I am about the flooding in Texas and the girls camp that was so significantly affected. Those poor girls, I can't imagine being asleep and then being washed away by a completely unexpected flood.

Such a devastating event. So much sadness. The camp owner/director tried to drive through the waters to save them and lost his life as well.

I just can't imagine how terribly this is affecting everyone--- the friends, families, camp counselors, rescue workers, etc.

Yeah, I’ve been incredibly sad about this as well. I keep seeing updates come across my fb feed and it’s really distressing. I feel for those families, friends, counselors, everyone.

 

[JaynaAli]

Lol a client asked if we did this surgery and I was like “absolutely not that is very much a specialist surgery”

the amount of times people (parents friends mostly) have asked me if I did my dogs 2 hemilams. ABSOLUTELY NOT.

See one, do one, teach one.

 

[DVMDream]