Reapplicant Improvements?

[deleted610511]

So, This will be my second application cycle.I have not received any interviews, but it is time to get started for the next year. I am thinking about applying to my state MD schools this time and mostly DO. It sucks cause this year I had Surgery for numerous things and it hindered my progress. I am really just looking for any advice to help me out. I don't think it was so much my personal statement as I had numerous people look at it who have some experience with these matters. I did not apply DO last year because I need to retake Organic Chemistry Labs and get Above a C. I am doing this now. I am also shadowing DO's in hopes of acquiring the required letter. I will greatly appreciate any advice. I did apply broadly (20 schools).

Stats:

uGPA: 3.0 - Biochemistry
usGPA: 3.0 - Biochemistry

Grad Gpa: 3.85 - Pharmacology
MCAT: 30 (Balanced)

Volunteering (250+ hrs) - local area hospital
**still ongoing 4 hrs a week

Research experience (4000+ hours):

Undergrad (~100 hrs) - Kinetics Research

Graduate Research (4000 hrs) - Pharmacology / Drug Abuse Research
- numerous projects/collaborations
-mentoring undergraduates for projects/poster presentation

Shadowing (20 Hrs) - Getting I imagine at least 8-12 more hours trying to shadow internal medicine DO's in my area.
Vascular Surgeon
Urban Emergency Department
Rural Emergency Department
Pedes
GP

Poster Presentation (1)

Publications in Progress (1-3) - (probably 2nd or third author on all) Hoping at least one will be done for this cycle.

Employment Experience: (1 Year) - Quality Assurance Tech. @ factory

Starting soon(January):

non clinical volunteering (4 hrs a week) - Alzhiemer's Association

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Members don't see this ad.

 

[deleted610511]

Anyone? Bueller... Bueller...

Is everyone suffering from chloroquine induced retinopathy?

Only things i can think to add was I was complete Mid July and finished most secondaries in Early August. My LORS are quite strong IMO, as they are from older tenure faculty that teach some modules for the medical students as well.

 

[DrMidlife]

So, This will be my second application cycle.I have not received any interviews, but it is time to get started for the next year.

Stop applying until you understand why you're not having success, instead of playing it like a lottery.

I am thinking about applying to my state MD schools this time and mostly DO.

Presumably you applied instate MD in your 2 cycles so far. What have you done to reach out to your state schools to get their feedback?

It sucks cause this year I had Surgery for numerous things and it hindered my progress.

Per your 2nd post you got your app done reasonably early, so what do you mean your progress was hindered?

I am really just looking for any advice to help me out. I don't think it was so much my personal statement as I had numerous people look at it who have some experience with these matters.

Your personal statement doens't make the top 3 list of things that are wrong with your app. Your undergrad GPAs are 2-3 standard deviations below the matriculant average for both MD and DO schools. Your grad work isn't easily understandable for med school admissions people. Your MCAT is below average ish.

Regardless, if by "numerous people...have some experience" you mean friends or relatives, that is useless. You need to get review from unfriendly faculty who will tell you things you don't want to hear.

I did not apply DO last year because I need to retake Organic Chemistry Labs and get Above a C. I am doing this now.

This doesn't make any sense. Why would you think applying MD would be successful with a C in ochem, but DO would not?

I did apply broadly (20 schools).

That's not all that broadly. If there were upper tier and/or competitive schools on the list, then the number is effectively lower.

uGPA: 3.0 - Biochemistry
usGPA: 3.0 - Biochemistry

Big fat red flag, poking adcoms in the eye. To get past these numbers, the rest of your app would have to be unbelievably compelling and make adcoms want to fight for you.

Grad Gpa: 3.85 - Pharmacology

The burden is on you to explain to med schools why this work is a valid counterexample to your undergrad performance. By contrast, an SMP is something med schools can understand, that builds confidence, because an SMP is where you do the first year of med school to prove you can handle med school.

MCAT: 30 (Balanced)

This is a below average MCAT for most MD schools. This would be survivable if your undergrad GPA was strong. But it's not, so this MCAT score doesn't do what an MCAT score can do: raise confidence despite low undergrad numbers.

All your volunteer & publishing stuff is fine. Doing more of it isn't going to change your story.

Being complete in August is fine.

Is everyone suffering from chloroquine induced retinopathy?

This has me wondering if there's a personality problem here. Hopefully your essays and 2ry answers aren't full of pretension like this.

My LORS are quite strong IMO, as they are from older tenure faculty that teach some modules for the medical students as well.

That says that your letter writers are strong, but it says nothing about whether the letters are strong.

If you want to do MD, then apply now to SMPs that start in August 2015. Don't reapply until you complete the SMP and get a higher MCAT.

If you'd be happy with DO, then get your DO stuff done and go ahead.

Best of luck to you.

 

[deleted610511]

First, chill your demeaning tone. Perhaps, its not exactly clear on some points because some of your interpretations
are wrong. Probably my fault as I am currently on oxycodone and gabapentin, so inevitably the clarity will suffer.

Presumably you applied instate MD in your 2 cycles so far. What have you done to reach out to your state schools to get their feedback?


Nope, my 1st application cycle was 2014-2015. Technically its still going on.


Per your 2nd post you got your app done reasonably early, so what do you mean your progress was hindered?

My progress was hindered in accomplishing more with my EC's(shadowing) as well as retaking Ochem.

Your personal statement doens't make the top 3 list of things that are wrong with your app. Your undergrad GPAs are 2-3 standard deviations below the matriculant average for both MD and DO schools. Your grad work isn't easily understandable for med school admissions people. Your MCAT is below average ish.


Regardless, if by "numerous people...have some experience" you mean friends or relatives, that is useless. You need to get review from unfriendly faculty who will tell you things you don't want to hear.

Had current Adcom review it. Along with other people who teach at the school. They don't have any proclivity toward telling me nice things.

This doesn't make any sense. Why would you think applying MD would be successful with a C in ochem, but DO would not?

Misspoke. Technically I have a D in one lab section. You need a C grade to apply. MD does not have this requirement.

That's not all that broadly. If there were upper tier and/or competitive schools on the list, then the number is effectively lower.

All lower tier. Newer schools. Schools that favor reinvention. Used MSAR.


The burden is on you to explain to med schools why this work is a valid counterexample to your undergrad performance. By contrast, an SMP is something med schools can understand, that builds confidence, because an SMP is where you do the first year of med school to prove you can handle med school.

Criticism taken, i guess I'll apply DO. My Graduate program is taught at a school of medicine, by faculty who teach for both. How is that not to be understood? All I am going to say about this and I know you won't ever agree, is that the work load is definitely comparable.

This is a below average MCAT for most MD schools. This would be survivable if your undergrad GPA was strong. But it's not, so this MCAT score doesn't do what an MCAT score can do: raise confidence despite low undergrad numbers.

True, but they don't hand out 3.85 Graduate GPA's. I get not even a nod for that?


This has me wondering if there's a personality problem here. Hopefully your essays and 2ry answers aren't full of pretension like this.

There most certainly was, but again this isn't Dr. Phil. I'm not going to write my who life story. I was young and immature. I went to college for the wrong reasons, in the wrong majors. I've worked real hard to develop discipline to change these problem areas. Will I escape judgement? No, I don't seek to either. Keen Observation.

That says that your letter writers are strong, but it says nothing about whether the letters are strong.

If you want to do MD, then apply now to SMPs that start in August 2015. Don't reapply until you complete the SMP and get a higher MCAT.

Full of pretension? I am actually fairly humble by most standards and I am sure that my PS conveys that. You, sir are speaking very disparagingly to someone who went through the immense pain of typing this out while still recovering from said surgeries. I did not want to write something to result in TL;DR and therefore in my assessment some information was left out. Again my mental acuity is not 100% either. Thanks for the information.

If you'd be happy with DO, then get your DO stuff done and go ahead.

Seems most logical to do DO.

Since you are telling me I have to do an SMP to prove I can handle the rigors of med school course work( i just spent 40k on my MS). As well as take the MCAT again. I believe the graduate degree does that, but on this we disagree. I took advice from a non-trad MD who married into my family. He suggested an MS as that is what he did to correct for his abysmal undegrad GPA. He did it in molecular biology, although he had a higher Mcat (34). Yes, I know a 30 /=/ 34. Also, other posters say do not retake a 30( not for my particular situation yet). Anyone care to comment?

 

[gyngyn]

The most identifiable weakness in your application is your undergrad gpa, not your perfectly respectable 30 MCAT.
For MD schools, grad gpa's are expected to be high and do not remediate a weak undergrad performance. I'm told that DO schools take graduate grades into account to a greater degree (no pun intended!).

 

[deleted610511]

The most identifiable weakness in your application is your undergrad gpa, not your perfectly respectable 30 MCAT.
For MD schools, grad gpa's are expected to be high and do not remediate a weak undergrad performance. I'm told that DO schools take graduate grades into account to a greater degree (no pun intended!).

cool, clear cut decision from my perspective then. Thank you.

 

[Goro]

Agree with this and everything else in this post. OP, yes, there are MD schools that favor reinvention, but you need a killer MCAT (>33) to go with your successful gGPA. Your graduate degree might not be as helpful as you might think if it's s research-based degree...or is so deep into Pharm that Adcom members won't see the relevance to good performance in med school.. For example, courses in "Enzyme kinetics", "pharmacology seminar" or "Methods in Pharmacology Research" aren't going to get you very far.

You're a much stronger candidate for Do schools than MD schools. Did you get any feedback from the schools that rejected you?

Stop applying until you understand why you're not having success, instead of playing it like a lottery.

 

[deleted610511]

Agree with this and everything else in this post. OP, yes, there are MD schools that favor reinvention, but you need a killer MCAT (>33) to go with your successful gGPA. Your graduate degree might not be as helpful as you might think if it's s research-based degree...or is so deep into Pharm that Adcom members won't see the relevance to good performance in med school.. For example, courses in "Enzyme kinetics", "pharmacology seminar" or "Methods in Pharmacology Research" aren't going to get you very far.

You're a much stronger candidate for Do schools than MD schools. Did you get any feedback from the schools that rejected you?

Stop applying until you understand why you're not having success, instead of playing it like a lottery.

Okay, I guess the 33 mcat makes some sense( I don't think its fair, but its not for me to say and nothing ever is).But your stop applying like a lottery comment does not really apply.

Again, my first cycle of application to MD programs is not over. And i am here asking questions about what i've done, so that it is not a lottery. Other than that I guess I'm going DO cause I don't really want to risk the MCAT again. I didn't prep verbal or bio at all since I was taking many graduate bio courses at the time I was trying to balance it all(so there is a potential for a slight?). I'm already signed up for Ochem Labs and my AACOMAS GPA will be like a ~3.2 or ~3.3.

I have not gotten feedback from any of the schools… My state school(the one i attend) has not responded to me yet. However, some faculty I know told me that could get me a meeting to discuss improvements with some one on the committee if am rejected (at my school). How would you advise me to broach this topic at other schools? a simple phone call?

As for the pharm degree's relevance, I feel one way. Obviously, prevailing wisdom on here is different. My instruction from people in medicine was that it would help(this does not indicate a complete amelioration). I believe that the topics that I've taken are highly relevant since they cover pathology, physiology, biochemistry, and pharmacology.

Most of the courses were Cell Biology,Biochemistry, Multiple Pharmacology, Neuroscience, Statistics, some seminars

But, this isn't about what I believe. Even some of the physicians I shadowed said my current knowledge would tremendously help me. I thought I demonstrated its application quite well in my PS(As Dr. Midlife mentioned was necessary). I understand it is not what I think or about what I believe. That is why I am here asking. However, it is disconcerting to think that they can't see the relevance... I work twice as much as I did in undergrad (~74 hrs a week on avg).

I will agree not all pharmacology like the more specific stuff is pertinent, but I can't honestly believe this sort of knowledge isn't highly relavent:

that 4 grams of APAP is the max dose by standards today to limit NAPQI generation, the toxic hepatocyte adduct, and knowing that it can undergo metabolism through Sulfotransferase, glucoronidation, or gluthionation.

or hell Autonomic pharmacology as a whole. I've not been in one ophthalmologist's office who hasn't used tropicamide, an anti-cholinergic drug, as a cycloplegic agent..

As far as intensity goes its like 70+ hrs of work a week(obviously not since the surgeries).

Again, I'm not asking for a medal or bragging, I'm just saying It is disappointing that I can put this much work in learning stuff that most certainly is pertinent and it gets no attention. I get that it may not be standardized, but to not have it mitigate some or most of the damage caused by my extremely poor uGPA is odd, considering I've never worked this hard in my life until now.

I won't ever try to say seminar classes are hard. Put the time in = "A"


Either way, after speaking with you gents it is clear that I am not going to retake the grueling MCAT again, when I can just take some easy Ochem Lab and end up with the same results as far as my goals are concerned. If you can think of anything else to add and address my question about getting feedback from rejection schools that would be fantastic. Thanks, for the valued input and for your third opinion Goro.