reccomendation letters

[farmgrl00]

I was wondering about reccomendation letters, I did research for a professor when i asked him to write me a letter, he told me to do it myself. I did it already and he has already agreed for me to submit it. I'm not sure about this though.. I think I wrote a great letter that shows what he would think about me and he Did say that all of it is true but frankly I'm a bit afraid... advice anyone?

Also, I also asked another professor to write me a letter, I'm pretty sure she will do a good job and she said she would, but

is there a nice way to let someone know that I only want a great letter of reccomendation, and that if she is going to submit a letter that will decrease my chances of getting into a school, I don't want that kind of letter. ?

Thanks!

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[kwakster928]

i do not want to be hard a## or anything, but tell you the truth i wouldn't feel comfortable writing my own recommendation letter and let professors sign it. it just dont seem right. usually if you ask any professors to write you a recommendation, and you did pretty well in his/her class and participated it, then i doubt they would put any negative things on the letter. it is some what risky what you did though. i doubt it happens but per say pharmacy school call your professor (one you write your recommendation) and ask about you and etc. since he didn't write it he probably wont remember what he wrote etc. but what if something is difference and they might question it. I HIGHLY DOUBT this well EVER EVER happen but you never know.

to answer your last question, i wouldn't ask any professor that you had one class with to write you a recommendation. meaningless recommendation that professor just whips out in 3 minutes is worse than the bad one. i would just go to any professors that actually knows you and feel comfortable about, and someone who you had some interactions with. then you wont have to ask anybody to write you a good recommendation. they will automatically write you a good one.

 

[vafcarrot]

I've heard of prof getting their division sec to write recommendations, but getting the student to write one about themselves? That just seems wrong. If the school you were applying to found out somehow, it would be really bad for both of you. It's flat out the prof "plagiarizing" your work by putting his name on it and he should be more professional than that.

If I were in your shoes, I would possibly go to the Dean about it. If he didn't want to write your recommendation or didn't have time, he should have said no. What he is asking you to do is unethical. Recommendations are NEVER intended to be written by the person they are for. Many schools ask you to give up permission to even SEE what a professor has written about you so that the professor will feel more open about writing the truth about you. The school I'm applying to requires the person writing the recommendation to sign over the seal of the envelope so that students can't look at what was written after it is given back to them to be mailed.

Also, I talked to my advisor and he told me that teachers know how to walk the fine line. They won't be like "Oh, she's horrible, I wouldn't touch her with a ten foot pole" . But if you are a mediocre student who never goes to office hours, they don't say "wow, she's perfect". I was told by my advisor that the truth is told in the most postive light as possible and the negative aspects aren't highlighted. At least that's what happens at my undergraduate school.

Teachers know that recommendations are important. I'm sure your teacher will write what she thinks is suitable for you. And no, there's not a nice way to ask someone to lie on your recommedation to make you go from "good" to "great". You prof may even be offended and look down on you for asking.

 

[kwakster928]

I COMPLETELY AGREE WITH VAFCARROT!! there is no doubt that that is plagiarizing. you get expelled from college from that stuff and stays in your record forever!!!. if you are really short on recommendations, i would go to your work supervisor. recommendation doesn't have to be all from professors. someone ourside of your family who knows you very well as a person is qualified to write you a recomendation.

 

[angelil_yu]

I just wanna speak it up from myself. I am acutally in the same shoe as you, farmgrl00. The fact that I have to write some letters of recommendation for myself is not a really good thing. It's confusing, challenging, and disturbing. You've got to have the "knowledge" of professor and other recommenders in your shoe and pretending that you're writing it for someone else at the same time knowing that the other person is you yourself. I chose to play it the safe way. I hope I can write, at least, a good recommendation for myself.

It is true that some professors even want the student him/herself to write down the recommendation letter. I don't say that it's right, but I also don't say that it's wrong because sometimes some professors (in big universities) don't really even know you although you're one of the top students in the class, right? Additionally, I think it is crucially important that you can write your own letter of evaluation. Because first, you are sure that you're gonna get a -positive- recommendation . Second, you learn how to write it right. I believe that the professor will surely read your recommendation before s/he signs it and make sure that s/he also remembers your name.

I ever an article about that kind of situation and the suggestion is to be able to write your OWN and have the professor signs it.
I don't really think that you should see it in such moral way because actually even that professor gives you a 'green' light to write it yourself, so why bother? It is not plagiarizing, I think, but more some strategies and tactics, although it's kinda shrewd.

I hope that helps.
PS : I'm open to any other suggestions

 

[Glycerin]

I think it's a bad idea to write letters for yourself. Evaluators should be capable of setting aside some time in order to complete a letter. It shouldn't take very long, especially if the evaluator knows you. If your evaluator asks you to write it yourself, then I'd find someone else to do it. Just my two cents.

 

[vafcarrot]

Um, yes it is wrong. Plain and simple. If a school found out you wrote your own recommendation, they would surely throw out your application without a 2nd thought.

And I would seriously be concerned if you did become a pharmacist and used these "strategies and tactics" while in the job field.

Your personal statement and other supplemental essays are to be used to personally introduce yourself to the committee, not through your recommendations.

If you have been unable to get to know at least three people who could write you a good and truthful recommendation while you have been in undergraduate school, there is a problem and maybe you should consider not going into pharmacy as a career or any other field where someone must vouch for you as a hardworking and intelligent individual.

Seriously, this whole topic is starting to piss me off. Hell, why should anyone have mentors and people that help them and who know their strengths and weaknesses? We can all just make up our own beautiful recommendations. To hell with social skills and forming relationships with people we respect and making a positive impression on more people than our mom and our little sister. What in the world?

 

[kwakster928]

Holy S#$T I can not believe what i am hearing. I can not believe some of you think this is the right thing!!! This is just unbelivable!

You've got to have the "knowledge" of professor and other recommenders in your shoe and pretending that you're writing it for someone else at the same time knowing that the other person is you yourself.

What the heck kid of knowledge is this? is this some form of skill that we should have mastered in college?

It is true that some professors even want the student him/herself to write down the recommendation letter. I don't say that it's right, but I also don't say that it's wrong because sometimes some professors (in big universities) don't really even know you although you're one of the top students in the class, right?

This is again rediculous! so what the professor doesn't know you even though you are a top student! Professors dont have do a damn thing! It is up to YOU to make your effort to go see him during his/her office hours chat with him and form a personal bond. it is ultimately your fault that you didn't have enough time to go chat with him/her. it is completely unexcusable! it does not matter whether you are from big university or not. it is how you make that bond with your professor in your own free time not professors'

Additionally, I think it is crucially important that you can write your own letter of evaluation. Because first, you are sure that you're gonna get a -positive- recommendation . Second, you learn how to write it right. I believe that the professor will surely read your recommendation before s/he signs it and make sure that s/he also remembers your name.

.

no s$%t you are going to get positive recommendation! you wrote it! and shame on any of the professors who actually practices this garbage method. he and her should be fired, those people have no morals and how dare them to encourage such a method as so called professors they do not even deserve a title, and i wonder what kinds of stragety or tatics they have may used to get there. you learn how to write? you fr#$king kidding me? you learn to how to write a paper by learning from mistake you made from a paper you wrote which has professors red marks and comments. i can not believe you belive writing your own recommendation to apply to the professional school is a good writing exercise. oh you better make sure he/she remembers your name because otherwise you will be screwed! nice way to cover yourself up.

I ever an article about that kind of situation and the suggestion is to be able to write your OWN and have the professor signs it.

what kind of article is this? if there is please post. I would love to report the author to the whoever i can report so i can ruin his/her career! what a *****!

I don't really think that you should see it in such moral way because actually even that professor gives you a 'green' light to write it yourself, so why bother? It is not plagiarizing, I think, but more some strategies and tactics, although it's kinda shrewd.

i seriously belive you have some moral and confidence problem. and I hope you dont use your method, if you do, i hope you dont get into any of the pharmacy program. it is disgrace to others who actually worked very hard to earn that seat! THIS WHOLE IDEA IS ABSOLUTELY WRONG AND DISTURBING! I HAVE EVER NEVER EVER IMAGINED I WILL BE HEARING THIS KIND OF BS!!!

sorry to be mean but i am really ticked off and angry, but i know i am right. my spelling is horrible don't even bother critisize me about my spelling.

 

[vafcarrot]

Here's a question: Is it ok to call and report you guys to the schools you are applying to as well as the deans at your undergraduate school? I mean, it's all about "strategies and tactics" and it if you were kicked out of the running, wouldn't that make all of the honest people applying to pharmacy school higher up in the list? All it takes is a phone call....


You guys are walking on very thin ice.

Seriously, what do other people on the board think about this?

 

[SoCalGirl]

It definitely sucks to have to write your own recommendation, but it's pretty common. A lot of professors have students write their own recommendation and then they'll read over it, make any changes they feel necessary and then sign it. At my school, a lot of profs have a TA write it for you and then they'll sign it. You can ask your TA for the class to write the letter and have the prof proofread it and then sign it.

 

[Caverject]

PLEDGE OF PROFESSIONALISM

As a student of pharmacy, I believe there is a need to build and reinforce a professional identity founded on integrity, ethical behavior, and honor. This development, a vital process in my education, will help ensure that I am true to the professional relationship I establish between myself and society as I become a member of the pharmacy community. Integrity must be an essential part of my everyday life and I must practice pharmacy with honesty and commitment to service.

To accomplish this goal of professional development, I as a student of pharmacy should:

A. DEVELOP a sense of loyalty and duty to the profession of pharmacy by being a builder of community, one able and willing to contribute to the well-being of others and one who enthusiastically accepts the responsibility and accountability for membership in the profession.

B. FOSTER professional competency through life-long learning. I must strive for high ideals, teamwork and unity within the profession in order to provide optimal patient care.

C. SUPPORT my colleagues by actively encouraging personal commitment to the Oath of Maimonides and a Code of Ethics as set forth by the profession.

D. INCORPORATE into my life and practice, dedication to excellence. This will require an ongoing reassessment of personal and professional values.

E. MAINTAIN the highest ideals and professional attributes to ensure and facilitate the convenantal relationship required of the pharmaceutical care giver.

The profession of pharmacy is one that demands adherence to a set of rigid ethical standards. These high ideals are necessary to ensure the quality of care extended to the patients I serve. As a student of pharmacy, I believe this does not start with graduation; rather, it begins with my membership in this professional college community. Therefore, I must strive to uphold these standards as I advance toward full membership in the profession of pharmacy.

Oath of a Pharmacist

At this time, I vow to devote my professional life to the service of all humankind through the profession of pharmacy.

I will consider the welfare of humanity and relief of human suffering my primary concerns.

I will apply my knowledge, experience and skills to the best of my ability in serving the public and other health professionals.

I will keep abreast of developments and maintain professional competency in my profession of pharmacy.

I will obey the laws governing the practice of pharmacy and will support enforcement of such laws.

I will maintain the highest principles of moral and ethical conduct.

I will address the challenges and opportunities in the profession of pharmacy and will participate in the change process.

I take these vows voluntarily with the full realization of the responsibility with which I am entrusted by the public.

 

[kwakster928]

It definitely sucks to have to write your own recommendation, but it's pretty common. A lot of professors have students write their own recommendation and then they'll read over it, make any changes they feel necessary and then sign it. At my school, a lot of profs have a TA write it for you and then they'll sign it. You can ask your TA for the class to write the letter and have the prof proofread it and then sign it.

again unbelievable. i can not believe this is a common practice!

 

[SoCalGirl]

Well, it is common. I applied to med school last year and a lot of people were in this situation. Even if you do go to office hours a lot, some profs will still ask you to write your own letter.

To the OP, I suggest going to the pre-allo forum and doing a search. This is discussed extensively there.

 

[kwakster928]

Well, it is common. I applied to med school last year and a lot of people were in this situation. Even if you do go to office hours a lot, some profs will still ask you to write your own letter.

did people actually got into the med school that way? if they did shame on them. i am sorry but whole thing just seem very disturbing to me.

 

[SoCalGirl]

Yes, people got into med school that way. This type of thing occurred a lot in the med school app process (I'm not sure about how common it was in pharm). I know several people looked at it as a great opportunity. Some people on SDN even had doctors or research profs that worked with them closely and knew them well ask them to do this. You need a letter from them so they put you in a really awkward situation. However, some profs ask people to write a first draft of the letter and then the prof will use that info to write the final.

 

[nguyenkd]

I'm not sure how common it is that professors or pharmacists tell you to write your own LOR, but I've heard about it a few times.

Farmgrl00, you should tell your prof that you don't feel comfortable writing the letter yourself and if he still insists that you should do it, ask your other prof.

I'm sure that she'll write you a positive one unless you were a really horrible student, which I'm sure you're not. Just give her a resume, your personal statement, and some points that you'd like her to write about.

At my school, they give you the option of seeing your LOR after you've been admitted, but I waived that option because it's just...weird. I wanted my prof to be comfortable in writing the letter.

In addition to the letter, we also have an evaluation form where your prof and pharmacists rates you on a scale of 1 to 6 (highest) on areas such as communication skills, integrity, responsibility, etc. One of my friends, whose pharmacist suggested that he do it himself because she was so lazy, decided to give himself all 6's because he truly thought that! I guess I'm not as perfect as him.

 

[vafcarrot]

One of my friends, whose pharmacist suggested that he do it himself because she was so lazy, decided to give himself all 6's because he truly thought that! I guess I'm not as perfect as him.

See that's BS. It completely negates the purpose of recommendations and gives dishonest people an unfair advantage.

And the whole business of it being "common" does not justify it. It's still wrong. It's like saying "well, it's common for druggies to inject themselves with illegal drugs. So I guess it's ok for me to do." That's so stupid.

Crimes are common; it doesn't mean you should commit them though.

 

[SoCalGirl]

First of all, I never said because it was common that it justified profs asking you to do this. Read the post first before going off on a rant. One poster had said that he'd never imagine this type of thing going on so I told him that it actually happened pretty often. He also said that it was up to you to get to know your profs and I was explaining that even if you know the prof well, some still ask you to write your own LOR.

 

[vafcarrot]

My point is it is wrong to write your own recommendation regardless of what the prof tells you to do or says. It is unethical and misleading to potential pharmacy schools that you are applying to AND if they knew about it they would throw your application away.

What's your point? That profs still do it and that it's common? Ok, um... that still doesn't change my point. Is there anything else? I assumed that because that was the only point you made that it was your rebutal in the discussion going on in the thread.

 

[kwakster928]

Let's just sum up my point and vafcarrot's view.

1. writing your own LOR is. WRONG
2. writing your own LOR because professor told you so. WRONG
3. professor who ask you to do this in first place. SERIOUS PROBLEM
4. professor who told you to do this even though you know him/her well. STILL WRONG ON THEIR PART
5. so should you write it? NO
6. fact that people think it is ok to do this and has been done. DISTURBING
7. is it common in some cases. MAYBE
8. is it still wrong? YES
9. so should you do it? ABSOLUTLY NOT
10. will your application get trown out if they find out? YOU BET

SO PLEASE DON'T WRITE YOUR OWN LOR EVEN IF PROF TOLD YOU TO DO SO. JUST THINK ABOUT IT.

ok i am done with this thread there is nothing more to be said.

 

[drlee2007]

I felt the need to respond to this question because I am appalled. Not at the professor, but at all of these self-righteous peons, who are appalled at the professor. Everyone needs to leap off there soap-boxes and step into the real world. What makes this act so egregious? Is that all of you are jealous that you couldn?t write you own recommendation (vafcarrot)? I say never look gift-horse in the mouth. I personally wrote two of my recommendation for medical school and was admitted to every school I interviewed at and was offered scholarships to each one. Am I ashamed? HELL NO! Some of you may say that I am undeserving of theses honors, but I received a prestigious full tuition scholarship to undergrad, in which I didn?t write my recommendations, so I am more than deserving of them. Some of you may question my ethics. Those of you who will attacked the character of an individual over this needs to seriously re-evaluate what they consider unethical, especially when we live in a world where our president lied to us and lead us into a fictitious war, for fictitious reason. It?s only a recommendation. Apparently the professor had enough respect and trust for you to allow you to write your own recommendation. The professor is going to read the rec anyway, so I?m sure that anything they deem untrue about you, they will correct. THIS IS NOT PLAGIARISM! A recommendation is the thoughts of the professor on the student, as long as what is written is true, it is not plagiarism. And I am sick and tired of hearing about this ?strategies and tactics? sh#t. THIS IS PHARMACY SCHOOL! All you have to do is count pills all day!!!! This is not rocket science. No, I?m sorry but all you anal retentive a$$hole who don?t have anything better to do than to just sit on this web board and act judgmental toward everyone else need to get a life.

 

[Caverject]

THIS IS PHARMACY SCHOOL! All you have to do is count pills all day!!!! This is not rocket science.

Apparently, you are clueless. If you do not know what you are talking about, please shut up and make your point and move on.

 

[lord999]

BMBiology, please boot DrLee2007. I have a feeling this is a flame.

By the way, I don't have an ethical program with you writing your own letter. I do have an ethical problem if its unsolicited. I've been approached to pen LOR and I felt insulted with the one person who prewrote the letter before I could consider it. It's a different matter all-together if when the applicant approached me, I requested that you draft your own so I can make revisions.

If you get permission to do so, please don't display any of your grammar tics or habits, because adcoms will know and will inquire as to why the letter sounds so similar with the recommender.

BTW, in general for LOR, it's helpful to give your recommender the following:
1. Your otherwise completed application with essays. Short of lying, nothing is more damning in an application than getting inconsistent responses from different people regarding your application. I try really hard to match my LORs to the mien and theme of an application.
2. I prefer the CV, but at least give a relavant resume.
3. Give your recommender time (at least 10 to 15 business days) to complete it.
4. Solicit first before dumping.
5. A summary cover letter stating your intentions of going to whatever program, what qualifications you have, and why out of all the other people should you be admitted. (i.e. your save the world letter).

I have solicited draft recommendation letters from people that I thought could best represent themselves to me. I rewrote them with my own flavor and observations so that adcoms would know that the recommendation came from me personally. It also helps out if the adcom calls me (happened occasionally) about a student's qualifications.

I also have a personal quirk about "hidden" LOR. I've always made it a practice to go over with the candidate my intended letter and ask for corrections and additions. I even give the recommendee the finished product to refer to in case there are any irregularities. Some recommenders may not be that comfortable, but never force an LOR on anyone. I can guarantee you it will be a bad one.

Like most other people who write LORs, I'm busy and concentrated on other matters. Writing LORs is not going to get me ahead in my profession. It's a favor to you. Therefore, you really have to make it as easy as possible to inspire me to do my best on it.

 

[BMBiology]

Drlee2007 - on the behalf of the Pharm.D. forum, I would like to congratulate you on your first post. Please feel free to post more of your divine wisdom.

 

[BMBiology]

Lord999 - I cannot because I am not a moderator but perhaps Brill can.

 

[lord999]

Uh, if you read my post, I thought I kind of freely admitted to it. Secondly, you won't get in trouble if they know. I stand behind my LORs because they bear my signature. They all say what I wanted to say even if someone had penned it.

And for my personal argument ad hominem, I am a Pharm. D., R. Ph. who has taken the oath as well in full realization of my responsibility.

"I will apply my knowledge, experience and skills to the best of my ability in serving the public and other health professionals."

"I will obey the laws governing the practice of pharmacy and will support enforcement of such laws."

"I will maintain the highest principles of moral and ethical conduct."

"I take these vows voluntarily with the full realization of the responsibility with which I am entrusted by the public."

It is not illegal, I believe not unethical if the recommender solicits it, and so long as the recommender stands by whatever he or she signs, I definitely don't have a moral problem. I, nor the applicant have submitted a false or forged document if I'm the one who signs it and owns up to it. And at least IMHO, the Midwestern adcom would agree.

 

[kwakster928]

i posted one post before but i decided against it there is no point of arguing or what not. if happens to go on so be it. i just wont do it. let's just leave this post to the rest. i feel like a child getting mad over such a little things. i have better things to do.

 

[bananaface]

I personally see nothing ethically wrong with writing the outline for your own letter of recommendation if (and only if) the person recommending you reads it and revises as necessary to reflect his or her own views. That said, I would find it constraining to write my own letter. I think a recommendation should represent someone else's idea about yourself, rather than your own. You are limited if you try to write your own recommendation because you just do not know accurately how other people percieve you. I would look for another reference to write me a letter if I were asked to author my own. To me, if someone is not wanting to write a letter on their own voalition, it says that they are not willing or able to make time for you or do not have the interest. I definitely think that you need to bring them supporting materials and wirte a letter of intent or something else material that shows where you are so that they can write a useful letter without alot of effort.

For your reference it is courteous to request a reference at least 2 full months before it is needed. My policy: give it to them 3 months ahead and tell them you need it in 2 months.

 

[lord999]

I can certainly agree to the above post.

 

[28657]

THIS IS NOT PLAGIARISM! A recommendation is the thoughts of the professor on the student, as long as what is written is true, it is not plagiarism.

A recommendation is the thoughts of the professor.....not what the student thinks the professor should think.

 

[angelil_yu]

I agree with what drlee27 said. You guys just don't see the fact. I believe some of you are very GOOD CITIZEN who never get any tickets or conduct felony. But frankly, I never do any fraudulent acts or misdemeanor either.
I just don't see it wrong like what most of you guys think as long as you are telling the truth and not talking crap or lie!!

PIece

 

[bananaface]

It is not that you would write a bad letter or that it would be morally reprehensible for you to write a letter. But, getting someone else to write the letter would be better than writing it yourself. What is missing is the spirit of the recommendation - a candid opinion about the applicant's character from someone other than the applicant. Unless the recommender has creative control over the letter, you won't get the benefit of hearing their full opinion.

Another thing to consider is that people who write letters all the time are often very skilled at it. And sometimes they say things about you that you are too modest to say for them if you were to write the recommendation.

 

[ultracet]

THIS IS PHARMACY SCHOOL! All you have to do is count pills all day!!!! This is not rocket science.

i totally agree with the doctor...
after all, all we do all day in class is the 5 times tables anyway. P1 up to 30, P2 to 90 (the hardest year), and P3 to 120, then P4 out in the real world to see if we can count under pressure.....

 

[bananaface]

I have to disagree with drlee2007. Pharmacist's DON'T just count pills all day. Sometimes we also take bathroom breaks.

And circle gets the square!

 

[Mr Reddly]

I stopped after the first few posts turned sour.
Just go here and see what it says.
Must be more common and accepted than some people think...


http://www.accepted.com/medical/LettersRec.aspx


Found via google BTW.

 

[jdpharmd?]

I stopped after the first few posts turned sour.
Just go here and see what it says.
Must be more common and accepted than some people think...


http://www.accepted.com/medical/LettersRec.aspx


Found via google BTW.

So because some commercial site is willing to charge people to write ("edit") their letters of rec for them, it means that it's accepted and common for people to write their own? Personally, I don't have a problem with it, but this site isn't proof or disproof of anything.

PS Nice font.

 

[farmgrl00]

Wow I didn't know this was such a Hot Topic. Who knew. Pharmacists don't just count pills. NOwadays, they take courses just as rigorous as medical schools and some pharmacy students join the medical students in their classes.

As for the reccomendation letters, I don't think people realize how difficult it is to get a letter from a Prof. I've never had a class smaller than 200, last quarter I had a prof who had two office hours per week. If you werent there at least 20 min before the start, standing in line at his office you don't stand a chance to even see his face during office hours. You'd just be peering in trying to see what's goin on. Mind there are 300 other people waiting in line so you better get there like 30 minutes prior to start of office hours. I don't think people who probably classes the size of office hours at some schools should be complaining about how we should get to know our professors because at my school, you'd be lucky if the professor knows ur face by the end of two quarters of class with him/her. Thats 20 weeks by the way. That is why most people do academic research for a reccomedation letter, and if you finally found someone to write you a letter, and they ask you to write it yourself and you refuse, where the heck are you goin to get a letter from faculty? Plus its not like the prof doen'st know you, they have worked with you for 12 hours per week on a research project and talked to you for at least 20 weeks! I see it as that the prof wants to give the student a challenge rather than he is lazy. It is not plagerism because the prof is reading it and making changes before he submits it. And, your not saying anything that is untrue.

 

[vafcarrot]

I was wondering about reccomendation letters, I did research for a professor when i asked him to write me a letter, he told me to do it myself. I did it already and he has already agreed for me to submit it. I'm not sure about this though.. I think I wrote a great letter that shows what he would think about me and he Did say that all of it is true but frankly I'm a bit afraid... advice anyone?

Also, I also asked another professor to write me a letter, I'm pretty sure she will do a good job and she said she would, but

is there a nice way to let someone know that I only want a great letter of reccomendation, and that if she is going to submit a letter that will decrease my chances of getting into a school, I don't want that kind of letter. ?

Thanks!

Farmgurl, you started this thread in the first place.

You did not say that the prof read it and made changes before submitting it. You wrote that he agreed for you to submit it. That's all.

Also, you asked for advice. If you had already made up your decision about the topic, why did you ask for advice?

And finally, if it is so hard to find a prof to write you a recommendation, why in the world would you ask advice about politely asking a prof not to write a letter if it wasn't going to be great? Should you be picking and choosing what profs to ask if they are so hard to get ahold of?

When I asked people to write my recommendations, I provided them with my letter of motivation, personal statement and resume. I also had conversations with them about what I wanted to do professionally and what my goals were.

Schools supply a section on forms for students to waive their right to have access to letters of recommendations after they have been written. This implies that schools will take a LOR as more truthful if students waive this right because they believe that whoever wrote the letter will be more open if they know that sudents won't be reading what they wrote. (now there's some alliteration)

When schools start to provide a spot on applications that lets a student waive their "right" to not be actively involved in writing their own LOR, then the act of writing your own will be legitamized. At that point in time, I think the schools will have a better view of the students applying instead of being mislead which I believe you are doing when you write your own. Until this happens, I guess I'll be a self-righteous person for standing up for something I believe in.

Drlee, before throwing insults, I suggest you look up the definitions of them. A peon is a person held in compulsory servitude to a master for the working out of an indebtedness. The last time I checked, no one on the board is one of these, but I may be wrong.

 

[Tuck]

All of my letters of recommendation for the schools I applied for used the schools form. On those forms there was a box that indicates whether or not you have been party to the recommendation or if it was written without the student seeing the contents. Obviously I wanted to see what was written, but I was unsure if checking that box would be weighted differently, so I called! The schools (that I applied to) basically said that they give more weight to LOR that have not been viewed by the applicant. However, the choice is clearly the individuals at this point. Do you know and have faith in the individuals that will be writing your recommendation or are you concerned about the contents? If you have reason to be concerned, then by all means read and preface your recommendation letters, but keep in mind that a positive letter, without your knowledge of the contents, may be of more benefit to you in the application process. As far as I am concerned you should do whatever maximizes the chances of your success. It is your life and your career and the choices you make dictate the path you will take. Consequently, my general philosophy in this and other decisions you make is to attempt to take the path of "Least Regret," for lack of a better name. Many situations in life are not ideal, you just have to choose those things that make you the most comfortable and secure for a given situation.

 

[kwakster928]

For those who write their own LOR and gets reviewed by professor and sign it and do not waive the right, then i do not see the problem. but if an applicants fully knows what is written and checking the box saying you are waiving the right so to make those LOR more creditable, now that's unethical and fraud! there is no argument there right guys? for those who are pro writing your own LOR please answer my question. did you or did you not waive that right? i would love to hear your answers.

 

[jdpharmd?]

For those who write their own LOR and gets reviewed by professor and sign it and do not waive the right, then i do not see the problem. but if an applicants fully knows what is written and checking the box saying you are waiving the right so to make those LOR more creditable, now that's unethical and fraud! there is no argument there right guys? for those who are pro writing your own LOR please answer my question. did you or did you not waive that right? i would love to hear your answers.

Waiving the "right" to see your letters does not mean that you can't see them as a courtesy. You are not guaranteed the right to see them, but if the professor gives you a peek (or you write your own), then I don't see a problem with that.

 

[Hirlemad]

I think the point some people are missing is that the profs usually ask for you to write them. If you ask the prof to write a rec for you, he/she is allowed to complete it any way they see fit (unless stated otherwise by the form), which can include the candidate writing the first draft. If I was a professor thats what I might do. And if somebody who is going to be "writing" a rec asks you to do something to make they're job easier, you'd better damn well do it IMHO.

Luckily my profs only asked for an outline, but I suppose that crosses that nonambiguous "moral and ethical conduct" line for some of you.

Also I agree with the poster who said getting to know your profs can be impossible if you do prereqs at a university. But also look at it from the profs perspective, most of the people they have to write recs for they know from a few questions in class and maybe a few more in office hours( if you're lucky). Hence the reason they often have you help them out.

Finally its not that big a deal, because I doubt schools put half the weight to recs that everybody thinks they do. They MUST know that a lot of profs do this and probably don't weight them much anymore.