Repost: Post-bacc with MANY questions

[chekakanova]

I posted this in the Pre-Med board, but they suggested I post it here instead.

So a little bit of introduction: I'm a post-baccalaureate student (not in a post-bacc program, just taking the prereqs at my undergrad university) with two bachelor's degrees in English Literature and Philosophy. In the year after graduating, I had a lot of time to think about what direction I wanted to take in life, and after deciding against teaching and law, I came to the very strong conclusion that I wanted to be a doctor, and in particular a psychiatrist.

I also want to say that I've never been so motivated in my life as I am now. In high school and university, I was what I would call a smart slacker... I didn't have to put much effort in my classes, and I still received a 3.87 GPA. I always felt that if I had some actual motivation and/or more self-discipline, I would be a much better student.

Now, I feel that I have that motivation, and I want to do the absolute best I can with the next two years I have to take the pre-requisites for med school. I have minimal doubts about being able to succeed in all my pre-requisite courses, as I have always done well in the sciences, so I anticipate that I will maintain my 3.87 GPA, and perhaps I might even raise it a bit. I also plan to study extensively for the MCAT, but that's a ways off at this point (>1 year).

Of course, this leaves me with many questions, which I'm sure will probably be answered when I talk with my pre-med adviser this week, but I figured the more opinions the better.

First, one of my main inspirations for this huge change has been my experience working as a medical receptionist at a clinic for low-income patients. Having become familiar with patients and physicians, I came to have a great sense of empathy for the patients and the desire to be able to help them the way that their providers do. Due to this experience, I also plan on coming back to my community after med school and residency, which is an underserved and semi-rural community. But I don't know how far this will get me with med school adcoms, besides being an interesting side note in my story, because I know it's not considered clinical experience.

Second, I have personal reasons for wanting to be a psychiatrist. I lost my father to bipolar disorder, and I myself was diagnosed as bipolar disorder five years ago. I know how difficult it is to struggle with mental health problems, and I feel that this affords me a more in-depth understanding of patients struggling with similar issues. I've already discussed this with my physician friends, and they've said that if I bring up this part of my inspiration on my application, I should probably only discuss the story of my father, and not my own story of having bipolar disorder. I generally agree, but I also wonder if there would be some way of sharing it that wouldn't be a detriment to my chances, as it really is one of my biggest reasons for wanting to pursue psychiatry in particular. I personally feel that it's more of a sign of strength than a sign of weakness, but I've been thinking it's probably better to be safe than sorry.

Third, and probably the most important questions I have, are about what I can do to increase my chances. With this new found motivation comes new found ambition, and while in the end, I know it would be enough to get into medical school period, I'd also like to do whatever I can to increase my competitiveness and get into the best school that I can. To that end, I have the following plans:

1. Clinical Experience/Volunteering. Because I understand that being a medical receptionist does not qualify as clinical experience, I have applied to volunteer at one of the local hospitals, and I plan to do as much volunteering as I can over the next two years. I was also wondering about whether or not to actually pursue a job involving clinical experience, which I could also probably manage to do.

2. Joining my school's pre-med club. I was wondering, though, if there are other ECs I should consider, maybe my university's book club, etc. However, I am not a particularly athletic person.

3. Shadowing. I have many contacts in my clinic, and have no doubt about being able to get as many hours shadowing as I want.

4. Saving my best idea for last: I am going to start a student group on Mental Health Awareness, to promote mental health advocacy about such issues as stigma, resources available to students, etc. There is nothing like it on my campus, and I figure this will be one of my greatest assets in applying to med school (if I am successful). I genuinely look forward to doing this, and I wanted to know how this would look on my application.​

Now for some things I'm not sure about doing:

1. Research. I'm not particularly interested in research, and I don't know that I could even find any research opportunities, given that I'm only in the introductory college courses and most-likely won't be taking any higher level classes until I'm almost finished. I also don't mind if this means I'm not competitive to schools who primarily focus on research. But I also know that I might be limiting myself if I don't at least consider it.

2. Non-clinical Volunteering. Not sure what/how much I should do.

3. Being specific about wanting to pursue psychiatry. I've heard mixed information on this subject, and before anyone asks "What if you decide you don't want to do psychiatry?", I'm interested in medicine in general, and I already have other specialties I'm interested in as well, mainly gynecology/obstetrics and general practice.

4. I'm afraid that it will look like I'm only doing some of this to get into med school, which is at least partly true, but I don't want to seem disingenuous.

5. I'm also pretty sure I'm going to have to take a gap year after getting my prereqs done, because I don't want to take the MCAT before completing my physics and o-chem courses.

6. Should I take any classes beyond the year of biology, year of general chemistry, year of organic chemistry, and year of physics? It looks like lots of schools like you to take biochemistry as well.
​

So, given this wealth of information (seriously, I'm very sorry to anyone that actually read this whole thing...), what are some of your thoughts? What are my chances based on this information and if I'm able to pull off what I plan to do? What else can I do to be competitive?

Thank you to ANYONE who actually got all the way down here... I can't wait to hear what you have to say!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[heartsink]

Hey there and welcome.

Read the whole thing so a couple thoughts: definitely don't talk about your own mental health in your app. Adcoms have thousands of apps to choose from and given the choice of yours and one identical without any mention of mental health issues, they'll choose the safe bet.

As for selecting psychiatry, that's fine. Don't tell adcoms that psych is your one and only interest bc there's four years of Med school and almost none of it is psych, they'll think you should just go become a psychologist. On that note, you should dig deep and find out whether or not that isn't true. Why psychiatry and not psychology?

For classes you've got it down. Biochem is a plus for the mcat and some schools require it. I would be careful about overloading too much in your first quarter. Pull off an A in intro Chem, and if that was easy, take two sciences next quarter. Pace yourself.

Extra curriculars are expected of everyone. Adcoms won't care that you did this all to get into med school because a couple hundred thousand other people did it for that reason too. You've got it figured out for volunteering it sounds like, otherwise just find ways to be of service however you feel is relevant to your interest and skill sets.

You didn't mention Lors which can be hard for humanity grads like us. Your school might have a premed committee and I would look into that to see how you go about getting a committee letter if you can't strike up a conversation with your science profs.

Research experience is crucial if you want to get into a research heavy school. It only slightly helps if you don't.

Lastly for the mcat: take some full length timed tests before the real thing. If you're not consistently hitting above your target score then back down. You'll likely do a little worse on the real thing.

Edit with after thoughts: some extra classes if you had time and money: genetics, microbio and physiology are popular and may help on the mcat as well. Physiology less so, but it's cool stuff.

 

[chekakanova]

Thank you for answering!

I agree that I shouldn't mention my mental health reasons for wanting to pursue psychiatry. But is it wrong to mention my father's struggle with it?

Also, I have thought long and hard about psychiatry versus psychology, and I want to go into psychiatry in particular because while I think therapy is crucial to mental health, I also recognize the importance of medical intervention and preventative medicine. To me, the physiological factors of mental health and targeting the actual biochemistry of mental disorder is more interesting and a field of medicine that is far behind the rest of medicine, as well as an underserved area of medicine in general. I want to contribute to society in that way.

I think I will take Biochem and maybe a smaller upper division biology class like you recommended, so that maybe I can get to know one of those professors better than the ones in the huge intro classes.

I also agree about ECs, and I wanted to ask, does starting my own student group sound like something that will put me a step up over other applicants?

I will focus on LoRs and getting to know my professors better, probably next year. I asked my pre-med adviser, and he said that we could have one LoR from one of our non-science professors as well, but I'll double check.

Someone on the other thread recommended that I look for research projects to get involved in that interest me. So I'll definitely look into that, since research experience really couldn't hurt.

Thanks again for answering!!

 

[NontradPreDO]

I think your student group idea sounds really interesting. I say go for it if you're not overloading yourself with too many things at once.

 

[GreenDuck12]

It sounds as though you are well on your way but don't overwhelm yourself at the sound of the starting gun! While you say you have never been more motivated, which is fantastic, do not make the mistake of overextending yourself. Be very thoughtful about how you spend your time and where you focus your energy. Checking every pre-med student box is not essential to earn admission for medical school...

DO:
- 1. Focus on your classes by slowly ramping up (don't overload yourself and earn low grades, you have a great gpa, keep it that way)
-2. Gain more experience and exposure to medicine by volunteering/shadowing/working (you have a great job for this)
- 3. Volunteer for altruistic causes beyond medicine (check out education, hunger, homelessness for starters) your mental health awareness thing could fit the bill but I would challenge you to get off campus and work with people who exist on the "fringes" i.e. helping individuals with mental health get access to community resources.
- 4. Get to know your professors by going to office hours, asking questions, and taking an interest in their work
- 5. Get involved with research (if and only if you are interested in the work they are doing)

I posted this in the Pre-Med board, but they suggested I post it here instead.

So a little bit of introduction: I'm a post-baccalaureate student (not in a post-bacc program, just taking the prereqs at my undergrad university) with two bachelor's degrees in English Literature and Philosophy. In the year after graduating, I had a lot of time to think about what direction I wanted to take in life, and after deciding against teaching and law, I came to the very strong conclusion that I wanted to be a doctor, and in particular a psychiatrist.

I also want to say that I've never been so motivated in my life as I am now. In high school and university, I was what I would call a smart slacker... I didn't have to put much effort in my classes, and I still received a 3.87 GPA. I always felt that if I had some actual motivation and/or more self-discipline, I would be a much better student.

Now, I feel that I have that motivation, and I want to do the absolute best I can with the next two years I have to take the pre-requisites for med school. I have minimal doubts about being able to succeed in all my pre-requisite courses, as I have always done well in the sciences, so I anticipate that I will maintain my 3.87 GPA, and perhaps I might even raise it a bit. I also plan to study extensively for the MCAT, but that's a ways off at this point (>1 year).

Of course, this leaves me with many questions, which I'm sure will probably be answered when I talk with my pre-med adviser this week, but I figured the more opinions the better.

First, one of my main inspirations for this huge change has been my experience working as a medical receptionist at a clinic for low-income patients. Having become familiar with patients and physicians, I came to have a great sense of empathy for the patients and the desire to be able to help them the way that their providers do. Due to this experience, I also plan on coming back to my community after med school and residency, which is an underserved and semi-rural community. But I don't know how far this will get me with med school adcoms, besides being an interesting side note in my story, because I know it's not considered clinical experience.

Second, I have personal reasons for wanting to be a psychiatrist. I lost my father to bipolar disorder, and I myself was diagnosed as bipolar disorder five years ago. I know how difficult it is to struggle with mental health problems, and I feel that this affords me a more in-depth understanding of patients struggling with similar issues. I've already discussed this with my physician friends, and they've said that if I bring up this part of my inspiration on my application, I should probably only discuss the story of my father, and not my own story of having bipolar disorder. I generally agree, but I also wonder if there would be some way of sharing it that wouldn't be a detriment to my chances, as it really is one of my biggest reasons for wanting to pursue psychiatry in particular. I personally feel that it's more of a sign of strength than a sign of weakness, but I've been thinking it's probably better to be safe than sorry.

Third, and probably the most important questions I have, are about what I can do to increase my chances. With this new found motivation comes new found ambition, and while in the end, I know it would be enough to get into medical school period, I'd also like to do whatever I can to increase my competitiveness and get into the best school that I can. To that end, I have the following plans:

1. Clinical Experience/Volunteering. Because I understand that being a medical receptionist does not qualify as clinical experience, I have applied to volunteer at one of the local hospitals, and I plan to do as much volunteering as I can over the next two years. I was also wondering about whether or not to actually pursue a job involving clinical experience, which I could also probably manage to do.

2. Joining my school's pre-med club. I was wondering, though, if there are other ECs I should consider, maybe my university's book club, etc. However, I am not a particularly athletic person.

3. Shadowing. I have many contacts in my clinic, and have no doubt about being able to get as many hours shadowing as I want.

4. Saving my best idea for last: I am going to start a student group on Mental Health Awareness, to promote mental health advocacy about such issues as stigma, resources available to students, etc. There is nothing like it on my campus, and I figure this will be one of my greatest assets in applying to med school (if I am successful). I genuinely look forward to doing this, and I wanted to know how this would look on my application.​

Now for some things I'm not sure about doing:

1. Research. I'm not particularly interested in research, and I don't know that I could even find any research opportunities, given that I'm only in the introductory college courses and most-likely won't be taking any higher level classes until I'm almost finished. I also don't mind if this means I'm not competitive to schools who primarily focus on research. But I also know that I might be limiting myself if I don't at least consider it.

2. Non-clinical Volunteering. Not sure what/how much I should do.

3. Being specific about wanting to pursue psychiatry. I've heard mixed information on this subject, and before anyone asks "What if you decide you don't want to do psychiatry?", I'm interested in medicine in general, and I already have other specialties I'm interested in as well, mainly gynecology/obstetrics and general practice.

4. I'm afraid that it will look like I'm only doing some of this to get into med school, which is at least partly true, but I don't want to seem disingenuous.

5. I'm also pretty sure I'm going to have to take a gap year after getting my prereqs done, because I don't want to take the MCAT before completing my physics and o-chem courses.

6. Should I take any classes beyond the year of biology, year of general chemistry, year of organic chemistry, and year of physics? It looks like lots of schools like you to take biochemistry as well.
​

So, given this wealth of information (seriously, I'm very sorry to anyone that actually read this whole thing...), what are some of your thoughts? What are my chances based on this information and if I'm able to pull off what I plan to do? What else can I do to be competitive?

Thank you to ANYONE who actually got all the way down here... I can't wait to hear what you have to say!

 

[Goro]

Non-trads get cut some slack fort not having research, since you have a life too and aren't a professional student. But this will remove you from consideration from the research powerhouses. No matter, there are still plenty of medical schools outside the top 25.

1. Research. I'm not particularly interested in research, and I don't know that I could even find any research opportunities, given that I'm only in the introductory college courses and most-likely won't be taking any higher level classes until I'm almost finished. I also don't mind if this means I'm not competitive to schools who primarily focus on research. But I also know that I might be limiting myself if I don't at least consider it.


You do need to demonstrate your altruism and humanism, epecially with those less fortunate than yourself. Your local houses of worship will have plenty of opportunities. I'm a big fan of Habitat for Humanity, and tutoring/reading needy children.

2. Non-clinical Volunteering. Not sure what/how much I should do.


It's OK to have interests, but unless you've actually shadowed a psychiatrist, who do you know what one of their days is like? Just be open-minded.

Also, and this is very important, do NOT pursue a career in Medicine unless your therapist/psychiatrist is OK with this. My school has seen too many students leave due to mental health issues, and med school is a furnace.

3. Being specific about wanting to pursue psychiatry. I've heard mixed information on this subject, and before anyone asks "What if you decide you don't want to do psychiatry?", I'm interested in medicine in general, and I already have other specialties I'm interested in as well, mainly gynecology/obstetrics and general practice.


You HAVE to do all this to get into medical school.
4. I'm afraid that it will look like I'm only doing some of this to get into med school, which is at least partly true, but I don't want to seem disingenuous.

The key to success is taking the MCAT when you 100% ready, and applying with the best possible app. this process is a marathon, not a sprint, and emd schools aren't going anywhere.

5. I'm also pretty sure I'm going to have to take a gap year after getting my prereqs done, because I don't want to take the MCAT before completing my physics and o-chem courses.

I strongly recommend taking Biochem, Cell Bio and/or Molecular Biology or Genetics.
6. Should I take any classes beyond the year of biology, year of general chemistry, year of organic chemistry, and year of physics? It looks like lots of schools like you to take biochemistry as well.
​

It sounds like a plan!
So, given this wealth of information (seriously, I'm very sorry to anyone that actually read this whole thing...), what are some of your thoughts? What are my chances based on this information and if I'm able to pull off what I plan to do? What else can I do to be competitive?

 

[Dr_OneDay]

Hello. As far as the classes you should take, I would recommend taking biochemistry since it's now a part of the MCAT, so medical schools will probably make it a mandatory prerequisite.

If you can, you should also take an advanced molecular biology course, as it will be a good integration of material from lower level prereqs.

I personally hate genetics, as I got a D- in the course (so shameful to admit, no one besides my mother and professor know about this), but it was mostly due to family issues, my focus on getting a good grade in physics, and the fact that my professor was actually the devil incarnate. (She made us spend at least 12 hours in the lab working with the flies, gave people 0/40 on exams even if they showed up and did the work, publicly humiliated them for asking questions, and held office hours at 8 AM during the winter).

 

[Moko]

I have personal reasons for wanting to be a psychiatrist. ... I know how difficult it is to struggle with mental health problems, and I feel that this affords me a more in-depth understanding of patients struggling with similar issues. I've already discussed this with my physician friends, and they've said that if I bring up this part of my inspiration on my application, I should probably only discuss the story of my father, and not my own story of having bipolar disorder. I generally agree, but I also wonder if there would be some way of sharing it that wouldn't be a detriment to my chances, as it really is one of my biggest reasons for wanting to pursue psychiatry in particular. I personally feel that it's more of a sign of strength than a sign of weakness, but I've been thinking it's probably better to be safe than sorry.

I tend to be on the conservative side when it comes to these issues, so take what I say with a small grain of salt.

Admissions committees are first and foremost looking to find students who can complete medical school successfully, and from talking with colleagues, pre-existing mental health issues often do raise significant concern and discussion. Among the spectrum of mental health issues, BPD is looked upon more seriously, given its a strong hereditary component, and that physicians are often negatively biased as they only see the patients with poorly controlled BPD who present after significant impairments and derailments to their life. Med school is almost uniformly stressful for students and often lowers the threshold for breakdowns/episodes to occur, which as others have mentioned, can cause leave of absences or worse.

It's important to be honest with yourself (up to a point) when it comes to telling your story, but I worry that including this information would be more harmful rather than helpful to your application.. Before you commit to pursuing medicine, make sure that you can handle the mental stresses that will invariably come, and that medicine is truly an environment that you can thrive in. Best of luck with your application.